Of the accessories this one puzzles me the most. Why a dock with a keyboard fused to it is appealing doesn't make sense. I would rather have a Bluetooth keyboard and the regular dock so I can move the keyboard around independently from the iPad. It will be interesting to see how popular the keyboard dock is.
I would imagine that there are two reasons.
One would be the weight the keyboard adds to the dock, and the leverage of that weight from the keyboard projecting forwards. A friend who has both told me that the regular dock isn't as stable, though it's ok for charging. Poking the screen a bit has it moving.
The second it that it's likely cheaper to do it this way.
A situation made even more frustrating given that I've tried to sync 6 different bluetooth mice to the iPad (including my Apple Magic Mouse), and it refuses to recognize any of them.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this...
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
It's considered to be confusing for one. Another reason is that touch works differently from mouse control. With a mouse pointer you have hover control. With touch you don't. Either you tap it, or you don't. Thats why Flash animations that are designed to work with a cursor with rollover effects won't work properly with a touch based device.
Also, a mouse is a relative positioning device, whereas multitouch is a direct positioning device.
I suppose Apple, or Google could get it to work, but so far, Win 7 that does both is considered to be almost unworkable.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
These are excellent observations.
It seems like something that Apple could have addressed (I already ordered the keyboard-dock......\)
I suppose Apple, or Google could get it to work, but so far, Win 7 that does both is considered to be almost unworkable.
The latter point is not terribly germane -- the fact that Windows 7could not do something has rarely been an excuse for why Apple might/could not.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Add: Perhaps here is where a stylus could have been a solution.
The latter point is not terribly germane -- the fact that Windows 7could not do something has rarely been an excuse for why Apple might/could not.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Add: Perhaps here is where a stylus could have been a solution.
It's not that MS couldn't get it to work. It's that it doesn't seem to work well together. Either the GUI is designed for one, or for the other. I also doubt that Apple was lazy. It's a decision on their part. I also think that they looked at the trackpads on laptops, even theirs, and understood what a pain they are to use. As far as mice go, they're just another thing to have around. Are you going to carry it around with you? Once you get used to using fingers, using a mouse is going to become awkward. And if you prefer the mouse, because that's what you're used to, then you won't get proficient with multitouch.
At any rate, it's another way for Apple to force a new concept out. That's difficult to do when the old one is still hanging around.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Rumor had it that the iPad was in development for years. Not dotting an "I" doesn't make much sense if that were true.
Having thought about this for a while, if I buy an iPad and can't get used to the software keyboard, I'm likely to just eBay it rather than using a hardware keyboard. I have a laptop, after all. But that's just me.
Seems this thread has turned into general iPad discussion, rather than WSJ where it originally started. Sorry to be off-topic.
Rumor had it that the iPad was in development for years. Not dotting an "I" doesn't make much sense if that were true.
Having thought about this for a while, if I buy an iPad and can't get used to the software keyboard, I'm likely to just eBay it rather than using a hardware keyboard. I have a laptop, after all. But that's just me.
Seems this thread has turned into general iPad discussion, rather than WSJ where it originally started. Sorry to be off-topic.
It's ok. After a while, things can move off topic. Some threads initial topic has a limited discussion lifetime, and so we move somewhat off of it after a time as other things come to mind.
As not having a mouse could be a reason why some people won't buy this, it does tie into reasons for how many people are buying it now.
It seems like something that Apple could have addressed (I already ordered the keyboard-dock......\)
I'd say it was addressed. They never added support for a mouse and never will because it goes against the entire reason to reengineer iPhone OS to be an efficient OS for touch-based computing.
Then there is the elephant in the room trying to add a single touch pointer to a UI designed from the ground up for multi-touch. To do any pinch and zoom you'd need an Option key on the keyboard which would make just using a mouse an issue in and of itself.
Everything we've seen from Apple to remove unneeded complications and requiring that mouse use also requires a keyboard or foregoing any pinch and zoom isn't something I'd expect from Apple.
In further regards to the mouse, this article sums it up, though it talks about more. I'll quote the relevant part, and give the link.
Quote:
Take the Photos app, for instance. On the iPad, Photos is what iPhoto would be if it had been built for a touch interface. The redesign needed to incorporate multitouch capabilities makes the application -- all such apps, in fact -- far more intuitive, natural and obvious to use than a mouse and keyboard could ever convey.
Apps, apps, apps
The same is true with the iPod app on the iPad (which sounds like a tongue-twister, I know). It's one thing to use iTunes with a mouse and keyboard, navigating and clicking your way through menus and song lists. It's another thing to use the iPod software on the iPad, where flicking your way through songs and videos seems more natural than doing it on a desktop computer. Suddenly, a mouse and keyboard feel like they get in the way of the whole computing experience.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
Maybe in the future Apple will allow (at least) the use of the Magic Mouse, given that it does feature multi-touch gestures.
Until then, this is a rather inelegant solution when using the keyboard dock, though it shouldn't be that much of a concern for the way the device is being marketed e.g. not really for serious work/productivity.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
The issue is not about capacitive or multi-touch HW, it's about a UI that was designed for touch-based computing. Windows was designed for a mouse and keyboard, just like Mac OS X.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
Maybe in the future Apple will allow (at least) the use of the Magic Mouse, given that it does feature multi-touch gestures.
Until then, this is a rather inelegant solution when using the keyboard dock, though it shouldn't be that much of a concern for the way the device is being marketed e.g. not really for serious work/productivity.
Yes. It's not designed for heavy work or productivity. At least, not yet.
I remember how people wailed when Apple came out with the GUI and mouse. The mouse was considered to be a productivity destroyer. Imagine, raising your hand from the keyboard to use a mouse, when you could just memorize hundreds of two and three character combinations that could be just typed out!
I suspect that this is being looked at the same way by some people.
If you're going to be typing for hours at a time, then you'd never do so on a tablet - why do people miss this point? Buy the right tool for the job - apple provide machines for a variety of tasks now from the iPod classic to the mac pro. This is a media consumption and light creation device - that's what is being sold as - why don't people simply open their minds and understand? If my four year old nephew gets it, my 63 year old mother gets it, then why does this minority of the supposedly tech community not?
It browses the web, plays music, checks emails, displays your photos, acts as an eBook reader, lets you play games and watch video. You can do some basic iWork creation on it.
It's really simple:
The iPod is a consumption device for games, apps, media
The iPhone is an iPod Touch with telephony functionality.
The MacBook is a laptop computer for media creation on the go
The Mac desktop range is for serious content creation.
and the iPad just joined the party somewhere between the iPod and the macBook.
Do try and keep up. Yes - it can't be used to edit 250meg high resolution photoshop files while rendering 3D graphics in the background. That is not a fault. It's a little like saying you can't put a nail into wood with a screwdriver - get with the plan, understand what this product is, who it is aimed at.
It's not a netbook replacement - Steve's very clear point was that nobody really wants a netbook - what they want is a cheap laptop. A netbook is just an under-spec'd laptop that doesn't do anything particularly well, because they tend to be crippled by slow processor running unnecessary processes (such as full OS when all people want to do is browse the web or listen to music/check email). The iPad was introduced to the market as a product to fill the gap between smart phone and laptop - not as a laptop or netbook or desktop computer replacement. It is a NEW product category. Do try and keep up. Some people simply do not need a fully blown computer - all they do is use facebook and email and like to listen to music. You don't need an iMac for that.
There are a lot of naysayers making themselves look very stupid because they can't understand a very simple concept which the non-tech community understand.
And yet people complain about netbooks. A netbook fills the same niche as the iPad (consumption and lite creation) - , and yet people (here as well as on other sites) constantly complain about them and denigrate them because they are not a full notebook replacement.
What a ridiculous post. Does this thing make tea? No. Because it's not designed to.
While it does not make tea, nobody would expect a portable computer to make tea.
However, each of the other expectations concerning the iPad that were listed WERE things that every other portable computer DOES do.
I don't understand your point. The iPad is not a real computer. It is exactly what it is, and is not suitable for people who want a real tablet computer. I don;t think that's so hard to fathom. It is MUCH more limiting than many folks want a tablet computer to be.
If folks want a real computer in a tablet form factor, the iPad is woefully deficient, and more choices will appear in stores soon.
The iPad is certainly NOT all things to all people. Like Apple TV, it is a wonderful way to buy stuff from Apple. As a portable open computing device, it is not everyone's cup of tea.
A netbook is just an under-spec'd laptop that doesn't do anything particularly well, because they tend to be crippled by slow processor running unnecessary processes (such as full OS when all people want to do is browse the web or listen to music/check email).
You've never really used a recent-vintage, high-quality netbook, eh?
A good netbook will play video better than an iPad - in 720P widescreen, using the whole 10 inch screen instead of a small letterbox. They will support every codec made. You have an almost limitless variety of good-quality playback software to choose from - whatever layout and feature set you prefer, with many of them absolutely free. And you can connect to your TV using HDMI. For standalone use, it plays in stereo, instead of mono.
A good netbook will surf the web better than an iPad - and will be able to handle every type of web content, including Flash. They also give you the choice of browser: Any browser you want.
And you have the choice of OS: Win XP, Win 7, any flavor of Linux, even Mac OSX if that is what you like.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this... [/QUOTE]
It strikes me as a PITA too. IMO, when docked to a keyboard, mouse input should be made possible.
It is inconvenient enough to move one's hand from the keyboard to the mouse. But to move one's hand from the keyboard to a mid-air position, and to drag and drop stuff using one's entire unsopported arm seems like a total PITA to me.
Comments
Of the accessories this one puzzles me the most. Why a dock with a keyboard fused to it is appealing doesn't make sense. I would rather have a Bluetooth keyboard and the regular dock so I can move the keyboard around independently from the iPad. It will be interesting to see how popular the keyboard dock is.
I would imagine that there are two reasons.
One would be the weight the keyboard adds to the dock, and the leverage of that weight from the keyboard projecting forwards. A friend who has both told me that the regular dock isn't as stable, though it's ok for charging. Poking the screen a bit has it moving.
The second it that it's likely cheaper to do it this way.
A situation made even more frustrating given that I've tried to sync 6 different bluetooth mice to the iPad (including my Apple Magic Mouse), and it refuses to recognize any of them.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this...
You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.
You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
It's considered to be confusing for one. Another reason is that touch works differently from mouse control. With a mouse pointer you have hover control. With touch you don't. Either you tap it, or you don't. Thats why Flash animations that are designed to work with a cursor with rollover effects won't work properly with a touch based device.
Also, a mouse is a relative positioning device, whereas multitouch is a direct positioning device.
I suppose Apple, or Google could get it to work, but so far, Win 7 that does both is considered to be almost unworkable.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this...
I don't understand why not. If you can use an external keyboard with the iPad which has a software keyboard, use of a mouse could surely be possible, if Apple wanted it so.
These are excellent observations.
It seems like something that Apple could have addressed (I already ordered the keyboard-dock......
I suppose Apple, or Google could get it to work, but so far, Win 7 that does both is considered to be almost unworkable.
The latter point is not terribly germane -- the fact that Windows 7could not do something has rarely been an excuse for why Apple might/could not.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Add: Perhaps here is where a stylus could have been a solution.
The latter point is not terribly germane -- the fact that Windows 7could not do something has rarely been an excuse for why Apple might/could not.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Add: Perhaps here is where a stylus could have been a solution.
It's not that MS couldn't get it to work. It's that it doesn't seem to work well together. Either the GUI is designed for one, or for the other. I also doubt that Apple was lazy. It's a decision on their part. I also think that they looked at the trackpads on laptops, even theirs, and understood what a pain they are to use. As far as mice go, they're just another thing to have around. Are you going to carry it around with you? Once you get used to using fingers, using a mouse is going to become awkward. And if you prefer the mouse, because that's what you're used to, then you won't get proficient with multitouch.
At any rate, it's another way for Apple to force a new concept out. That's difficult to do when the old one is still hanging around.
It is also possible that they just did not think of it, or were lazy, or said at some point, 'let's go with what we have here than try to dot every i.'
Rumor had it that the iPad was in development for years. Not dotting an "I" doesn't make much sense if that were true.
Having thought about this for a while, if I buy an iPad and can't get used to the software keyboard, I'm likely to just eBay it rather than using a hardware keyboard. I have a laptop, after all. But that's just me.
Seems this thread has turned into general iPad discussion, rather than WSJ where it originally started. Sorry to be off-topic.
Rumor had it that the iPad was in development for years. Not dotting an "I" doesn't make much sense if that were true.
Having thought about this for a while, if I buy an iPad and can't get used to the software keyboard, I'm likely to just eBay it rather than using a hardware keyboard. I have a laptop, after all. But that's just me.
Seems this thread has turned into general iPad discussion, rather than WSJ where it originally started. Sorry to be off-topic.
It's ok. After a while, things can move off topic. Some threads initial topic has a limited discussion lifetime, and so we move somewhat off of it after a time as other things come to mind.
As not having a mouse could be a reason why some people won't buy this, it does tie into reasons for how many people are buying it now.
These are excellent observations.
It seems like something that Apple could have addressed (I already ordered the keyboard-dock......
I'd say it was addressed. They never added support for a mouse and never will because it goes against the entire reason to reengineer iPhone OS to be an efficient OS for touch-based computing.
Then there is the elephant in the room trying to add a single touch pointer to a UI designed from the ground up for multi-touch. To do any pinch and zoom you'd need an Option key on the keyboard which would make just using a mouse an issue in and of itself.
Everything we've seen from Apple to remove unneeded complications and requiring that mouse use also requires a keyboard or foregoing any pinch and zoom isn't something I'd expect from Apple.
Take the Photos app, for instance. On the iPad, Photos is what iPhoto would be if it had been built for a touch interface. The redesign needed to incorporate multitouch capabilities makes the application -- all such apps, in fact -- far more intuitive, natural and obvious to use than a mouse and keyboard could ever convey.
Apps, apps, apps
The same is true with the iPod app on the iPad (which sounds like a tongue-twister, I know). It's one thing to use iTunes with a mouse and keyboard, navigating and clicking your way through menus and song lists. It's another thing to use the iPod software on the iPad, where flicking your way through songs and videos seems more natural than doing it on a desktop computer. Suddenly, a mouse and keyboard feel like they get in the way of the whole computing experience.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...3&pageNumber=2
You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
Maybe in the future Apple will allow (at least) the use of the Magic Mouse, given that it does feature multi-touch gestures.
Until then, this is a rather inelegant solution when using the keyboard dock, though it shouldn't be that much of a concern for the way the device is being marketed e.g. not really for serious work/productivity.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
The issue is not about capacitive or multi-touch HW, it's about a UI that was designed for touch-based computing. Windows was designed for a mouse and keyboard, just like Mac OS X.
That may be true with Apple devices, but I have 2 capacitive multi-touch laptops that allow for use of either screen or input device gestures.
Maybe in the future Apple will allow (at least) the use of the Magic Mouse, given that it does feature multi-touch gestures.
Until then, this is a rather inelegant solution when using the keyboard dock, though it shouldn't be that much of a concern for the way the device is being marketed e.g. not really for serious work/productivity.
Yes. It's not designed for heavy work or productivity. At least, not yet.
I remember how people wailed when Apple came out with the GUI and mouse. The mouse was considered to be a productivity destroyer. Imagine, raising your hand from the keyboard to use a mouse, when you could just memorize hundreds of two and three character combinations that could be just typed out!
I suspect that this is being looked at the same way by some people.
In further regards to the mouse, this article sums it up, though it talks about more. I'll quote the relevant part, and give the link.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...3&pageNumber=2
Thanks...
If you're going to be typing for hours at a time, then you'd never do so on a tablet - why do people miss this point? Buy the right tool for the job - apple provide machines for a variety of tasks now from the iPod classic to the mac pro. This is a media consumption and light creation device - that's what is being sold as - why don't people simply open their minds and understand? If my four year old nephew gets it, my 63 year old mother gets it, then why does this minority of the supposedly tech community not?
It browses the web, plays music, checks emails, displays your photos, acts as an eBook reader, lets you play games and watch video. You can do some basic iWork creation on it.
It's really simple:
The iPod is a consumption device for games, apps, media
The iPhone is an iPod Touch with telephony functionality.
The MacBook is a laptop computer for media creation on the go
The Mac desktop range is for serious content creation.
and the iPad just joined the party somewhere between the iPod and the macBook.
Do try and keep up. Yes - it can't be used to edit 250meg high resolution photoshop files while rendering 3D graphics in the background. That is not a fault. It's a little like saying you can't put a nail into wood with a screwdriver - get with the plan, understand what this product is, who it is aimed at.
It's not a netbook replacement - Steve's very clear point was that nobody really wants a netbook - what they want is a cheap laptop. A netbook is just an under-spec'd laptop that doesn't do anything particularly well, because they tend to be crippled by slow processor running unnecessary processes (such as full OS when all people want to do is browse the web or listen to music/check email). The iPad was introduced to the market as a product to fill the gap between smart phone and laptop - not as a laptop or netbook or desktop computer replacement. It is a NEW product category. Do try and keep up. Some people simply do not need a fully blown computer - all they do is use facebook and email and like to listen to music. You don't need an iMac for that.
There are a lot of naysayers making themselves look very stupid because they can't understand a very simple concept which the non-tech community understand.
And yet people complain about netbooks. A netbook fills the same niche as the iPad (consumption and lite creation) - , and yet people (here as well as on other sites) constantly complain about them and denigrate them because they are not a full notebook replacement.
What a ridiculous post. Does this thing make tea? No. Because it's not designed to.
While it does not make tea, nobody would expect a portable computer to make tea.
However, each of the other expectations concerning the iPad that were listed WERE things that every other portable computer DOES do.
I don't understand your point. The iPad is not a real computer. It is exactly what it is, and is not suitable for people who want a real tablet computer. I don;t think that's so hard to fathom. It is MUCH more limiting than many folks want a tablet computer to be.
If folks want a real computer in a tablet form factor, the iPad is woefully deficient, and more choices will appear in stores soon.
The iPad is certainly NOT all things to all people. Like Apple TV, it is a wonderful way to buy stuff from Apple. As a portable open computing device, it is not everyone's cup of tea.
A netbook is just an under-spec'd laptop that doesn't do anything particularly well, because they tend to be crippled by slow processor running unnecessary processes (such as full OS when all people want to do is browse the web or listen to music/check email).
You've never really used a recent-vintage, high-quality netbook, eh?
A good netbook will play video better than an iPad - in 720P widescreen, using the whole 10 inch screen instead of a small letterbox. They will support every codec made. You have an almost limitless variety of good-quality playback software to choose from - whatever layout and feature set you prefer, with many of them absolutely free. And you can connect to your TV using HDMI. For standalone use, it plays in stereo, instead of mono.
A good netbook will surf the web better than an iPad - and will be able to handle every type of web content, including Flash. They also give you the choice of browser: Any browser you want.
And you have the choice of OS: Win XP, Win 7, any flavor of Linux, even Mac OSX if that is what you like.
So when docked in the keyboard stand, it appears that you'll have to constantly go back and forth between typing on the keyboard and operating the device via touch-screen input.
There surely must be a better solution than this...
It strikes me as a PITA too. IMO, when docked to a keyboard, mouse input should be made possible.
It is inconvenient enough to move one's hand from the keyboard to the mouse. But to move one's hand from the keyboard to a mid-air position, and to drag and drop stuff using one's entire unsopported arm seems like a total PITA to me.
You can't use a multitouch device with a mouse.
What would be wrong with a multitouch touchpad?