You make a valid point but there are settings in which the iPad could be used for note taking because a bluetooth keyboard or the dock/keyboard combo that Apple is offering will get around having to imput on a virtual keyboard. Journalists, for example (I used to be one of those) sitting up in a press box could easily set up an iPad to do their work. Anywhere that allows for the iPad to be propped up in front of you would allow for such a use and I do imagine that for firing off an e-mail, the iPad would do the trick even working off the virtual keyboard.
Not everyone who owns a netbook is a student taking lecture notes.
Also, the flaw of the netbook is that many folks think of it as a notebook or desktop replacement. It aspires to be that but generally is a rather lousy notebook/desktop substitute. The iPad has no such delusions of grandeur. It is designed to do a specific set of tasks but does them exceptionally well. There are particular tasks that a netbook, even a lousy, cheap one can handle whereas the iPad simply can't. Clearly, in those instances, one would choose a netbook over the iPad. But then you have people who have purchased a netbook to perform tasks to which the iPad is perfectly suited. For those potential customers, the iPad does represent an appealing alternative.
In terms of Apple's bottom line the iPad is a great addition because it doesn't replace a pocketable device like the iPhone or the Touch. Also, it doesn't replace a full-function computer be it a desktop or laptop. In fact, you pretty much have to have such a device to combine with the iPad to have a viable set-up. Apple can sell folks an iPhone and an iPad and a Macbook Pro or iMac or (in my case) a Mini. It's going to amount to additional revenue and additional opportunities to sell content.
Fair enough. I was just pointing out that netbooks have their uses, and just because his Steveness badmouths them and some people fallaciously consider them a desktop replacement doesn't mean they're pointless devices. The iPad will no doubt be a big success (if it isn't already), but netbooks will stick around and get better and that's great. I could even imagine getting an iPad AND a decent netbook - to me, they're simply different devices that could complement each other very well.
Isn't marketing an awesome thing? I become sexier holding my new iPhone; isn't that right? I become sexier driving my Bentley GTS convertible, obviously. My new Nexus 1 makes my penis larger, or so I've been led to believe.
I find it humorous to see how Apple's hype machine has affected people. They're one of the best at it, and it shows in the iPad. I knew when Jobs called this thing 'Magical' that we were all in for a tsunami of BS coming our way.
Marketing is fascinating to be sure as is human psychology as it relates to it. I guess in the modern world where owning more cows or having a few extra neck rings doesn't cut it, marketing has found ways to touch the same primeval feelings of self worth.
I wonder which is more powerful; the desire to own an iPad created by marketing or the envy, anger and hate of some without an iPad that is generated?
Having said that I still am really enjoying my iPad and couldn't care less if anyone knows I have one or not.
I think the "iPhone replacement" is being miss-interpreted. I originally had hoped I could buy a 3G iPad, dump my iPhone and get a cheap phone (losing the expensive iPhone dataplan). After much deliberation, I concluded I could not do that. My iPhone is just way too convenient and easy to carry (as opposed to the iPad). It has way too many functions for me to settle on a cheap phone. I still have a niche for the iPad (travel, e-textbooks etc...) but I have to have my iPhone so I bought the Wifi version of the iPad. I do not think people intended to replace their phone with the iPad, just dump the iPhone, get a cheaper plan and have the iPad as a supplement to their new cheap phone. I hope that makes sense.
Agreed - in a moment of madness last year I purchased an Asus EEE PC 900. Without doubt the biggest pile of sh*t I've used in my 30 years of computing. Slow, crap screen, pathetic battery life and the keyboard is impossible to type on without constantly having to correct yourself because the keys are so tightly crammed together and in slightly offset positions to the norm.
Mine has been gathering dust so I'm going to pop it on eBay along with my Power Mac G5 and get some money towards the iPad when it launches in the UK.
One bad purchase decision hardly condemns an entire category of product. That is like saying that because you once bought a Renault Le Car (a POS), and didn't like it, then all compact cars are crap.
Yet, as previously pointed out in this thread, for many people it will: people who bought netbooks, and even full laptop/notebook computers because there was no iPad. Doing serious work on a netbook sucks, and even working on a laptop is not great. But most people who lug netbooks, and even a good number who lug laptops, around, aren't doing serious work on them while they are mobile, or in their living rooms. (Or maybe anywhere.)
That's the beauty of the iPad: it fills a need (or call it a desire if you want) that nothing, including netbooks properly served before, and it does so perfectly matched to that need. Netbooks, except as cheap (in every sense of the word) computers, are finished. The days of being forced to use tools inappropriate to the task are over.
You make a valid point but there are settings in which the iPad could be used for note taking because a bluetooth keyboard or the dock/keyboard combo that Apple is offering will get around having to imput on a virtual keyboard. Journalists, for example (I used to be one of those) sitting up in a press box could easily set up an iPad to do their work. Anywhere that allows for the iPad to be propped up in front of you would allow for such a use and I do imagine that for firing off an e-mail, the iPad would do the trick even working off the virtual keyboard.
Not everyone who owns a netbook is a student taking lecture notes.
Also, the flaw of the netbook is that many folks think of it as a notebook or desktop replacement. It aspires to be that but generally is a rather lousy notebook/desktop substitute. The iPad has no such delusions of grandeur. It is designed to do a specific set of tasks but does them exceptionally well. There are particular tasks that a netbook, even a lousy, cheap one can handle whereas the iPad simply can't. Clearly, in those instances, one would choose a netbook over the iPad. But then you have people who have purchased a netbook to perform tasks to which the iPad is perfectly suited. For those potential customers, the iPad does represent an appealing alternative.
In terms of Apple's bottom line the iPad is a great addition because it doesn't replace a pocketable device like the iPhone or the Touch. Also, it doesn't replace a full-function computer be it a desktop or laptop. In fact, you pretty much have to have such a device to combine with the iPad to have a viable set-up. Apple can sell folks an iPhone and an iPad and a Macbook Pro or iMac or (in my case) a Mini. It's going to amount to additional revenue and additional opportunities to sell content.
I know that Apple's bluetooth keyboard will pair with the iPad but, will it or other bluetooth keyboards pair with the iPhone? If I'm sitting in my car answering a bunch of emails, it sure would be nice to do it on a keyboard rather than pecking away on the phone.
Modern netbooks have large keyboards. For example, the Dell Mini 10 has a keyboard which is 93% of the size of a "regular" keyboard, and others have keyboards which are even bigger.
Yes, crappy netbooks exist. But to ascribe "bad keyboard" to every product in the category based upon one's limited experience is to make a false generalization.
Never having even seen a netbook that I am aware of (I travel by air a lot but all I see are glowing white Apple logos these days it seems) what is different from one compared to a small MacBook? I must be missing something.
I agree. If I had a netbook, I would use it to take notes at university - there's no way I could use an iPad for that; I type much faster on a hardware QWERTY. The iPad is nice, but it won't serve as a netbook-replacement for anyone I know.
So you agreed to something, i.e., using a netbook to take notes at university and dissed the iPad for the same purpose. Yet you own, or tried neither.
Could you let us know how you know that.
Buy the way, for those that have an iPhone, iPod Touch and/or now the iPad, and you haven't yet gotten Dragon Dictation* (DD), do so. Talk about taking note at university or anywhere else for that matter, DD is unbelievable accurate. It needs some work but for short notes, I wouldn't live without it. BTW, it is free right now.
And equally great, Pastebot, at $2.99 is a must have, as well as, Pastebot Sync which is free.† Note that I am not sure how well Pastebot works on the iPad. I am waiting for the 3G model (actually 4 of them), but it has been a blessing on my iPhone.
I hope by phone calls, they actually meant video conferencing because if you want to replace your iPhone with a 10" pad held up to your ear, then you're too stupid to own an iPad.
I love my iPhone and when I got the iPad I wasn't trying to replace it. I wanted to have a device that had a bigger screen with the same great OS provided to us by apple like the iPhone. I couldn't be more please with the slim fit portable power machine. Yes there are features not available on the iPad that we could use but it's perfect the way it is and I'm sure we will see improvements in the time to come. For now I will use my iPad and keep my iPhone by my side because I have no intention of using my pad to make calls or to use when I'm running.
But surely the iPad can replace the iPhone once they get the 3G version. What they should be complaining about is the fact that they now have to pay large tailor bills for stitching on unsightly 12" pockets on all their jackets and pants.
If you agree that the iPad cannot replace a netbook, why did you say that it could?
Are you changing your mind now? That would be fine.
Is it your opinion that the current iPad CANNOT replace a netbook, but that someday, if/as/when the iPad is no longer in its current configuration, then it will be as capable as a netbook?
Flash not included on iPhone and iPad is simply that anyone could make their own Flash App Store and undermine Apple's marketing model.
The iPad could make calls like the iPhone but Apple and the carriers have negotiated that consumers will have to have 2 sims, that's two mobile operator accounts. One for your iPhone, one for your iPad. IMHO there is no need for this. Have the carriers said to Apple that the iPad will max out their systems?
Apple make great products - have a look at your wallet and figure out for yourselves how they achieve this.
Exactly, although I admit to using the term deliberately for the sake of humor
I see you you mention you are buying the iPad apps impulsively... so far I've been true to my Scottish ancestry on my mother's side and stuck with Free apps except for Pages. I wish Apple woud bring out an HD iDisk app and possibly a genuine Apple ARD client. Do you think the latter is likely?
BTW, Any of the for profit ones you particularly recommend so far?
1) Scottish, eh? Me too. 3rd generation, from Edinburgh. PS: I don't know if you watch the new Dr. Who serials but the new one just started and the new companion is an attractive redhead from Scotland.
2) It's odd that Apple has updated their own 3rd-party apps. It makes me wonder if v4.0 will have these things included for the iPad. But still, that is likely at least a few months before going live so why not take a little time to at least give it the minimal Universal refresh. They also never had an iPhone optimized site for the very site for listing web apps. Sometimes they don't make much sense.
3a) So I can only recommend the $2 NG World Atlas app right now. That's it, really. I bought Star Walk for $5 but haven't tried it at night, but looks promising, I've bought several comics on the Marvel app (was never really into comics before now). Elements is great but I'm not if it's worth the $14. Scrabble is really cool and $10 is less than the physical board game probably costs but I have yet to play it, have just seen the video of it. I'm not a gamer but I played the Labyrinth 2 HD Lite and enjoyed it so much I then paid $7 for it, which i've played quite a bit.
3b) I still have no get IM client (using AIM) and no RSS reader (not a fan of NetNewsWire). There are a bunch of others but I can't recall them or haven't used them yet.
Can you imagine the anti-iPad mocking from the PC fanboyz showing someone holding an iPad to their ear
Apple investors would not exactly love it if it cannibalized iPhone sales either! Of course it can use Skype and similar systems so it isn't totally without communications ability.
p.s. After three days now using it around the clock I haven't missed Flash yet!
Feynman wrote (and I took it to heart) What do you care what other people think?
I can see using the ipad with either a wired headset (think Plantronics) or with a bluetooth headset...why the hell not? Along with skype as a voip client.
Modern netbooks are very cool devices. Many are well-made and powerful. Do some research.
...
Aside from using a screen resolution that they were not made to display, a good-quality modern netbook will do exactly what you describe. They are as good as desktop computers were a few years ago.
Do some research. Look at the Asus and Dell netbooks.
I like my wife's Lenovo S10. I've hooked it up to a monitor and keyboard and it's a nice little computer. For running powerpoint, surfing, etc it's just fine. Heck, I even did some light development on it with both VS and Eclipse.
Still though, 90% of the usage is for gmail and surfing. For that the iPad will be awesome. Assuming that keynote input works okay for her documents (mine has been spotty in the past) she can even do document/briefing reviews.
Apple REALLY needs a native Keynote player on Windows.
Comments
You make a valid point but there are settings in which the iPad could be used for note taking because a bluetooth keyboard or the dock/keyboard combo that Apple is offering will get around having to imput on a virtual keyboard. Journalists, for example (I used to be one of those) sitting up in a press box could easily set up an iPad to do their work. Anywhere that allows for the iPad to be propped up in front of you would allow for such a use and I do imagine that for firing off an e-mail, the iPad would do the trick even working off the virtual keyboard.
Not everyone who owns a netbook is a student taking lecture notes.
Also, the flaw of the netbook is that many folks think of it as a notebook or desktop replacement. It aspires to be that but generally is a rather lousy notebook/desktop substitute. The iPad has no such delusions of grandeur. It is designed to do a specific set of tasks but does them exceptionally well. There are particular tasks that a netbook, even a lousy, cheap one can handle whereas the iPad simply can't. Clearly, in those instances, one would choose a netbook over the iPad. But then you have people who have purchased a netbook to perform tasks to which the iPad is perfectly suited. For those potential customers, the iPad does represent an appealing alternative.
In terms of Apple's bottom line the iPad is a great addition because it doesn't replace a pocketable device like the iPhone or the Touch. Also, it doesn't replace a full-function computer be it a desktop or laptop. In fact, you pretty much have to have such a device to combine with the iPad to have a viable set-up. Apple can sell folks an iPhone and an iPad and a Macbook Pro or iMac or (in my case) a Mini. It's going to amount to additional revenue and additional opportunities to sell content.
Fair enough. I was just pointing out that netbooks have their uses, and just because his Steveness badmouths them and some people fallaciously consider them a desktop replacement doesn't mean they're pointless devices. The iPad will no doubt be a big success (if it isn't already), but netbooks will stick around and get better and that's great. I could even imagine getting an iPad AND a decent netbook - to me, they're simply different devices that could complement each other very well.
Isn't marketing an awesome thing? I become sexier holding my new iPhone; isn't that right? I become sexier driving my Bentley GTS convertible, obviously. My new Nexus 1 makes my penis larger, or so I've been led to believe.
I find it humorous to see how Apple's hype machine has affected people. They're one of the best at it, and it shows in the iPad. I knew when Jobs called this thing 'Magical' that we were all in for a tsunami of BS coming our way.
Marketing is fascinating to be sure as is human psychology as it relates to it. I guess in the modern world where owning more cows or having a few extra neck rings doesn't cut it, marketing has found ways to touch the same primeval feelings of self worth.
I wonder which is more powerful; the desire to own an iPad created by marketing or the envy, anger and hate of some without an iPad that is generated?
Having said that I still am really enjoying my iPad and couldn't care less if anyone knows I have one or not.
Agreed - in a moment of madness last year I purchased an Asus EEE PC 900. Without doubt the biggest pile of sh*t I've used in my 30 years of computing. Slow, crap screen, pathetic battery life and the keyboard is impossible to type on without constantly having to correct yourself because the keys are so tightly crammed together and in slightly offset positions to the norm.
Mine has been gathering dust so I'm going to pop it on eBay along with my Power Mac G5 and get some money towards the iPad when it launches in the UK.
One bad purchase decision hardly condemns an entire category of product. That is like saying that because you once bought a Renault Le Car (a POS), and didn't like it, then all compact cars are crap.
[An iPad] cannot replace a netbook.
Yet, as previously pointed out in this thread, for many people it will: people who bought netbooks, and even full laptop/notebook computers because there was no iPad. Doing serious work on a netbook sucks, and even working on a laptop is not great. But most people who lug netbooks, and even a good number who lug laptops, around, aren't doing serious work on them while they are mobile, or in their living rooms. (Or maybe anywhere.)
That's the beauty of the iPad: it fills a need (or call it a desire if you want) that nothing, including netbooks properly served before, and it does so perfectly matched to that need. Netbooks, except as cheap (in every sense of the word) computers, are finished. The days of being forced to use tools inappropriate to the task are over.
It's neither an Apple or computer-related phenomenon. There are rabid fan clubs with fanboys and fangirls for pretty much anything under the sun.
Yes, in vanishingly small numbers, as I already said.
You make a valid point but there are settings in which the iPad could be used for note taking because a bluetooth keyboard or the dock/keyboard combo that Apple is offering will get around having to imput on a virtual keyboard. Journalists, for example (I used to be one of those) sitting up in a press box could easily set up an iPad to do their work. Anywhere that allows for the iPad to be propped up in front of you would allow for such a use and I do imagine that for firing off an e-mail, the iPad would do the trick even working off the virtual keyboard.
Not everyone who owns a netbook is a student taking lecture notes.
Also, the flaw of the netbook is that many folks think of it as a notebook or desktop replacement. It aspires to be that but generally is a rather lousy notebook/desktop substitute. The iPad has no such delusions of grandeur. It is designed to do a specific set of tasks but does them exceptionally well. There are particular tasks that a netbook, even a lousy, cheap one can handle whereas the iPad simply can't. Clearly, in those instances, one would choose a netbook over the iPad. But then you have people who have purchased a netbook to perform tasks to which the iPad is perfectly suited. For those potential customers, the iPad does represent an appealing alternative.
In terms of Apple's bottom line the iPad is a great addition because it doesn't replace a pocketable device like the iPhone or the Touch. Also, it doesn't replace a full-function computer be it a desktop or laptop. In fact, you pretty much have to have such a device to combine with the iPad to have a viable set-up. Apple can sell folks an iPhone and an iPad and a Macbook Pro or iMac or (in my case) a Mini. It's going to amount to additional revenue and additional opportunities to sell content.
I know that Apple's bluetooth keyboard will pair with the iPad but, will it or other bluetooth keyboards pair with the iPhone? If I'm sitting in my car answering a bunch of emails, it sure would be nice to do it on a keyboard rather than pecking away on the phone.
rooms. (Or maybe anywhere.)
That's the beauty of the iPad: it fills a need (or call it a desire if you want)
Apple is great at this. It's like chocolate, but also good for you.
Modern netbooks have large keyboards. For example, the Dell Mini 10 has a keyboard which is 93% of the size of a "regular" keyboard, and others have keyboards which are even bigger.
Yes, crappy netbooks exist. But to ascribe "bad keyboard" to every product in the category based upon one's limited experience is to make a false generalization.
Never having even seen a netbook that I am aware of (I travel by air a lot but all I see are glowing white Apple logos these days it seems) what is different from one compared to a small MacBook? I must be missing something.
I agree. If I had a netbook, I would use it to take notes at university - there's no way I could use an iPad for that; I type much faster on a hardware QWERTY. The iPad is nice, but it won't serve as a netbook-replacement for anyone I know.
So you agreed to something, i.e., using a netbook to take notes at university and dissed the iPad for the same purpose. Yet you own, or tried neither.
Could you let us know how you know that.
Buy the way, for those that have an iPhone, iPod Touch and/or now the iPad, and you haven't yet gotten Dragon Dictation* (DD), do so. Talk about taking note at university or anywhere else for that matter, DD is unbelievable accurate. It needs some work but for short notes, I wouldn't live without it. BTW, it is free right now.
And equally great, Pastebot, at $2.99 is a must have, as well as, Pastebot Sync which is free.† Note that I am not sure how well Pastebot works on the iPad. I am waiting for the 3G model (actually 4 of them), but it has been a blessing on my iPhone.
*http://iphone.dragonmobileapps.com/apple/dictation.html
† http://tapbots.com/software/pastebot/
Give it to me.
But surely the iPad can replace the iPhone once they get the 3G version. What they should be complaining about is the fact that they now have to pay large tailor bills for stitching on unsightly 12" pockets on all their jackets and pants.
oh, we'll get there.
If you agree that the iPad cannot replace a netbook, why did you say that it could?
Are you changing your mind now? That would be fine.
Is it your opinion that the current iPad CANNOT replace a netbook, but that someday, if/as/when the iPad is no longer in its current configuration, then it will be as capable as a netbook?
Or what?
Flash not included on iPhone and iPad is simply that anyone could make their own Flash App Store and undermine Apple's marketing model.
The iPad could make calls like the iPhone but Apple and the carriers have negotiated that consumers will have to have 2 sims, that's two mobile operator accounts. One for your iPhone, one for your iPad. IMHO there is no need for this. Have the carriers said to Apple that the iPad will max out their systems?
Apple make great products - have a look at your wallet and figure out for yourselves how they achieve this.
Stevo - iPadless in a 300 000+ iPad world.
Exactly, although I admit to using the term deliberately for the sake of humor
I see you you mention you are buying the iPad apps impulsively... so far I've been true to my Scottish ancestry on my mother's side and stuck with Free apps except for Pages. I wish Apple woud bring out an HD iDisk app and possibly a genuine Apple ARD client. Do you think the latter is likely?
BTW, Any of the for profit ones you particularly recommend so far?
1) Scottish, eh? Me too. 3rd generation, from Edinburgh. PS: I don't know if you watch the new Dr. Who serials but the new one just started and the new companion is an attractive redhead from Scotland.
2) It's odd that Apple has updated their own 3rd-party apps. It makes me wonder if v4.0 will have these things included for the iPad. But still, that is likely at least a few months before going live so why not take a little time to at least give it the minimal Universal refresh. They also never had an iPhone optimized site for the very site for listing web apps. Sometimes they don't make much sense.
3a) So I can only recommend the $2 NG World Atlas app right now. That's it, really. I bought Star Walk for $5 but haven't tried it at night, but looks promising, I've bought several comics on the Marvel app (was never really into comics before now). Elements is great but I'm not if it's worth the $14. Scrabble is really cool and $10 is less than the physical board game probably costs but I have yet to play it, have just seen the video of it. I'm not a gamer but I played the Labyrinth 2 HD Lite and enjoyed it so much I then paid $7 for it, which i've played quite a bit.
3b) I still have no get IM client (using AIM) and no RSS reader (not a fan of NetNewsWire). There are a bunch of others but I can't recall them or haven't used them yet.
Yes, in vanishingly small numbers, as I already said.
Out of interest I just googled 'fanboyz' and after several pages of various types I had yet to come across any reference to Apple.
correction ... I found a reference on third page.
Can you imagine the anti-iPad mocking from the PC fanboyz showing someone holding an iPad to their ear
Apple investors would not exactly love it if it cannibalized iPhone sales either! Of course it can use Skype and similar systems so it isn't totally without communications ability.
p.s. After three days now using it around the clock I haven't missed Flash yet!
Feynman wrote (and I took it to heart) What do you care what other people think?
I can see using the ipad with either a wired headset (think Plantronics) or with a bluetooth headset...why the hell not? Along with skype as a voip client.
Modern netbooks are very cool devices. Many are well-made and powerful. Do some research.
...
Aside from using a screen resolution that they were not made to display, a good-quality modern netbook will do exactly what you describe. They are as good as desktop computers were a few years ago.
Do some research. Look at the Asus and Dell netbooks.
I like my wife's Lenovo S10. I've hooked it up to a monitor and keyboard and it's a nice little computer. For running powerpoint, surfing, etc it's just fine. Heck, I even did some light development on it with both VS and Eclipse.
Still though, 90% of the usage is for gmail and surfing. For that the iPad will be awesome. Assuming that keynote input works okay for her documents (mine has been spotty in the past) she can even do document/briefing reviews.
Apple REALLY needs a native Keynote player on Windows.
Y
Also, the flaw of the netbook is that many folks think of it as a notebook or desktop replacement.
The problem with the class of computer is what "many folks think"?
That is pretty convoluted.
It is like saying that the problem with the iPad is that folks think of it as "X".
What these fictitious folks think is not a valid criticism of the product.