what if this move you are upset about is part of their getting their act together to "kick ass" in that it is directly related to supporting multiple apps running as AppleInsider has suggested? What if their efficient implementation of multiprocessing apps to call their APIs instead of bypassing them?
I understand Apple wants to get everyone to play nice together. It is the amount of control that Apple seems to take to protect us all that has me scared to death. First they seem to have an arbitrary selection process for there apps store. Second they seem to have one set of APIs for them to develop apps and another APIs for everyone else. This creates a situation that allows them to take over any market some other developer creates. This is very similar to what MS did. The power that the apps store and APIs give Apple will be hard to not abuse.
If Apple continues with the BS that they have been up to of late, I will move on again. This is sad for me. Apple is starting to act very much like MS and will end up in the same type of trouble that they had with anti-trust. Before you try to say that they are a small player and can do what they want with there system. They are starting to be the dominate player in the mobile field and are going to have to start to play by another set of rules if things keep going in this direction.
Apple has come back from the brink and I hope that they can get there act together and kick ass. If not I for one will move on.
No one can sue Apple for monopoly if it doesn't have a monopoly.
Apple is getting very close to a monopoly in mobile operating systems. If they keep having the success that they have had, it won't be long.
Oh give me a break! This is simply pure FUD. Last time I checked, there is Android, RIM, WinMo, Palm, Symbian, etc. Nice that you conveniently left that part out eh? Besides, with the way the Android boys are kicking, Android will overtake the iPhone by when????? This time next Thursday? Then, you can sleep nice knowing open source (and the world) was victorious over closed, "safe", and proprietary toasters.
You are blowing this thing WAY out of proportion. Tech-heads may not like this situation because they have some sense of holier-than-thou attitude that transcends the average-Joe that Apple is concentrating on for their mobile systems.
What it comes down to is one simple thing. Money. Clamor all you want but developers will go to where the money is. Joe's will continue to buy Apple's products because they have no clue whatsoever about the whining and screaming that Adobe is putting out nor about the gestapo-policies you folks are screaming that Apple is implementing.
You even mentioned the success Apple is having in selling iPhones. Maybe they have that success because they are doing something everyone else loves but you deplore? Might want to do some inner soul-searching.
The people generating most of the profits for Apple simply do.not.care!
The majority of iPhone developers (IMHO) simply do not care.
So who does care??? Flash folks... which goes back to iPhone users that do.not.care.
Next time at 11 - Our sun will go supernova in 5-billion years! Let's not innovate! Let's evacuate!
I don't think we should automatically assume Apple has the upper-hand here. If Adobe's CS Suite wasn't available for the Mac platform, I bet a lot less people would be using the platform.
If Apple threaten Adobe's business, Adobe can do far more damage in reverse. Obviously it affects their business somewhat initially too but it won't be long-lasting.
I really don't see why there has to be such a huge problem - the tech industry always seems to fight towards problems than find solutions. Adobe are well known as the best company for content creation software. If they simply took on board Apple's Canvas addition to the HTML 5 spec and developed software like Flash but using Javascript instead of Actionscript, how would they lose money?
If anything, they'd make more money because designers would be able to build entire sites by themselves in the software without learning code and know that their site is standards compliant. Device manufacturers don't have to wait for hardware-acceleration support, they can build it in themselves.
It's not an overnight deal but if Adobe can change 60 million lines of code in one year in a CS update, they can pull this off too.
It may require converging Dreamweaver and software like the Flash app but it would help sell the CS 5 Suite way more than iPhone targeting from the Flash software. It should even be able to fulfill that role as they'd be able to publish apps that run on webkit's HTML 5 and Javascript interpreter and they will work on any HTML 5 compliant platform - Nexus One, Droid, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Blackberry, all netbooks/laptops/desktops running Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari and every OS - that's not more than the Flash install base (thanks once again Internet Explorer for the lack of standards support) but it's a big market and a potential way to kill IE too. Developers can all accelerate it as fast as they want, which is more than they can do with a Flash plugin.
Like I say, if they'd all just try and work together on this stuff, it would be easier in the end for publishers and consumers who are the only ones that really matter in all this. It's not about a pissing content between companies to see who actually has the last word, it's about providing business solutions that generate revenue and keep the web interesting and the constant bickering is helping no one.
Adobe's products are mostly closed off and that's not good for the future of the web, nor are plugins. It should never have been allowed to go this far to have nearly all web video dependent on a single company. Adobe just need to do the smartest thing and play along. They will come off better for it in the end.
I have to disagree strongly with you. A good case in point was Avid pulling out of the Mac market. That was said to be a nail in Apple's coffin. Apple doesn't just sit there and watch the product vanish entirely with no response. Apple bought several companies and the results arenthe Final Cut Suite which has basically marginalized Avid, the industry standard.
If Adobe and even Microsoft ever decided to drop Apple they'd live to regret it. Apple's response would be to build software that's better and cheaper than Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. And it can be done. Apple simply doesn't go after Adobe's market so long as Adobe doesn't force Apple to do so by pulling out.
Remember Avid truly was in Adobe's position. It was simply unthinkable that anyone could topple Avid. Apple did and they did it in record time.
I've been using Adobe's apps since the very beginning. And I am so sick of Adobe. I would love Apple to go after Adobe. Virtually everyone I know feels the same way. We're sick to death of Adobe's rising prices and extreme activation measures.
If Adobe dropped Apple, I'd clap clap clap. Because I know what Apple's response would be. Build a better graphics suite and sell it for less.
"You're a big guy. But you're in bad shape. Now, for me, it's a 24 hour job." Carter (Michael Caine.)
And Apple are giving Adobe the bitch slapping they're had coming for a llllllooooooonnnnnnnng time.
In bouncer talk? Adobe are being piled on, dragged to the exit and thrown down the stairs. Sure, you kinda feel sorry for the drunk that got it in the neck...but you think, also, perhaps he had it coming. kinda his fault.
Adobe for years treated us to 2nd rate ports, feature omissions or no software at all or refused to support Apple's initiatives, waiting for the Mac platform to whither and die while nailing their support to the PC mast. Now that it hasn't panned out that way, they're complaining Apple isn't supporting them? Too bad. Coupled with their CEO's patronising attitude, and Adobe in general, to Apple and Mac users.
Quote:
MacDailyNews Take: Tough Adobe. You should have focused more on Apple's Mac instead of foolishly waiting for the platform to die and then, when it didn't drop dead as you hoped, treating Mac users as second-class citizens while pimping inferior Windows PCs. Flash is a proprietary, resource-hogging, browser-crashing abomination and we don't want ported software on our iPhones, iPads, or Macs; software designed for the lowest common denominator is inferior to software designed to take advantage of individual platforms' strengths.
A bit of perspective: Apple is currently worth 12 times that of little, old, lazy, shortsighted, back-stabbing Adobe and Apple has enough cash on hand to buy Adobe - twice, with billions left over. Not that they'd want it. Although, it would be fun to take Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, and Dreamweaver Mac-only and put the rest of the company out of its misery.
Ever launch Photoshop? The length of time it takes for that mess of spaghetti code to launch is one reason why we find ourselves using Pixelmator pretty much exclusively nowadays.
I agree with the above.
Poor backstabbing Adobe is bleating that friends should treat one another better? How ironic. They dropped Premiere for the Mac. Apple did Final Cut and sawed them off at the knees.
This isn't just sawing them off at the knees, this lack of support for Flash (justifiably) is a kick in the nuts, a knee in the face and a push down the stairs.
Adobe stopped writing software years ago. They stopped innovating. They stopped trying.
Adobe, Jobs gave you a hint. Write some HTML5 tools...and get back to being a creative authorship company. Cos you sure as hell aint a standards based company. Flash. Slow. Buggy. Insecure. How come Apple has to be the only company that supports it? It's old. It's outdated. There's a new kid in town that aint proprietary.
Abobe Flash proprietary? Or Apple proprietary? I'm going Apple. Everytime.
I don't want Adobe's Mac users can suck it generalised platform to the lowest coming denominator. It wasn't built from the ground up to be mobile. It shows.
Adobe are a fat, lazy company that have been sitting on their ass for years...charging us every more for CS for very little return and even feature omission.
How did that article go from being about Apple banning 3rd party compilers to talking about Flash in web browsers and even mentioning IE9. There completely different technologies only related in the fact that CS5 could compile a project into a Flash movie or an iPhone app.
If you didn't know any better you would assume that the iPhone ran HTML5 rather than basically it's own proprietary language which ultimately is comparable to Flash and Silverlight except that it only works on the iPhone.
I've read through any number of these threads now, thousands of comments on this issue, and one thing strikes me. Nearly all of the comments supporting Adobe's position are doing so from a position of self-interest. Now that's fair enough, arguing your own corner, but to dress that up as a wider ethos or principle is fundamentally dishonest. As Adobe's abysmal management surely depreciates the value of Flash, people whose livelihood depend on it need to move on from the dying to the emerging technology. Old tech is succeeded by new tech, and although transitions can be painful for some, the only alternative is stagnation.
Another element to this 'debate' (more like shouting match) is the casual tossing in of the phrases 'monopoly' and 'anti-trust'. This is just ridiculous! Apple's main strategic thrust here is to promote the development and adoption of HTML5 - an open standard - the very antithesis of monopoly! Instead, the argument goes, Apple and others should subvert their development plans to fit in with Adobe's monopolistic hegemony! The late George Carlin did a bit in one of his HBO specials where he laments that critical thinking is no longer taught in US schools. Boy, did he have a point!
What the world needs, and has needed for many years, are serious, viable competitors to Microsoft and Adobe. In the absence of that (and Apple are not really directly competing with MS because they have an entirely different business model and do not participate in the mass commodity sector of the market) we've got bloated quasi-monopolies dominating their respective fields. Adobe were in such a position of strength, they could have innovated from the front. Instead they sat back on the profit pile accruing from their captive market and have slowly fossilised. In five years' time all this blather will be forgotten and the tech world will be a better place. Apple are one of the key instruments of change here, and all kudos to them for that.
Apple doesn't NEED to work with them. everything they need is in the API. Adobe's programmers just need to read the documentations in xCode.
Or you are saying that Apple should send a team of teachers over, and teach them how to program?
Actually Adobe can just send some of their programmers over to Standford to take the iPhone programming class, it's pretty comprehensive.
It's too bad you don't know what you're talking about. At all.
Many of the performance optimizations afforded to Flash on Windows (in 10.1 specifically) are a direct result of access to hardware acceleration. The plugin development structure in Safari does not allow the same access. It cannot be done because Apple does not make available the required APIs.
Apple are out competing Adobe how exactly? Flash has near 100% penetration on PCs. Photoshop totally dominates the graphic design market.
Google dominates search. Android is a far more advanced OS than even iPhone OS 4, and Android market share is rapidly rising.
And as for MS... oh come on. Think before you type.
You make some simple face value statements but that that is not the story about competition is it? You have to look at the strategic moves and metrics movements from the baseline.
Windows had 97% share in US Desktops, now it is high 80s - mostly gone to Apple (some linux) - out-competing (i.e. growing share and sales) - they don't have to have 100% to be winning the war (their share by $ value of PC sales is much higher of course due to their much higher ASP). I imagine they would be happy to never take more than 20% of the traditional computer market by unit sales but 80% of the profit (which is their model).
Google is dominant in search but that is the not the competitive ground - Apple is trying to compete in mobile ad impressions served. iAd is way more innovative than anything Google has dreamed up - Google can't even get their Admob acquisition straight.
Android is not way more advanced - they are pretty comparable (esp w/ 4.0) and iPhone still has a clear usability advantage for the vast majority of users (non-technical people). Google is not growing the Android market, it is giving Android away to myriad handset makers who are making the major $ investments. No wonder Android is growing but it is not attacking iPhone (holding share, growing sales) but WinMob and Nokia. For every Droid/N1/Evo4 there is a MotoDevour, Eris etc. (weak and cheap). Google make nothing from it except the ad impressions it can get on the platform. Apple's business strategy with iPhone has been vastly superior to Google's. We will see how it plays out (iPod vs. All or Mac vs. Windows 95) but so far, clear victory and billions of $s to Apple.
Adobe - near 100% Flash penetration was the baseline where Apple came into this fight. Now all major video sites are moving off it (slowly), there is a growing anti-flash movement and it is largely because Apple got the ball rolling (remember the parallel h264 youtube for iPhone 1.0) and has kept up the momentum. Photoshop is a market leader but it is a fat bloated old-fashioned product, used by a tiny niche of computer users who are all but irrelevant for Apple these days (250K Mac Pros out of 11M Mac sales is not a big deal even at a 2-3x ASP). If Apple wanted to, it could crush PS too - buy Pixelmator, sprinkle its fairy dust and take enough revenue and profit from Adobe to make them the basket case to investors that Palm is today. It would make Apple no real money to invest in competing products and it would divert them from revenue/profit positive ventures so they won't but they could. It could do the same with buying Quark etc. but there are no serious $s in that any more at Apple's current scale and consumer focus. To be honest, all Apple would have to do is something to convince some reasonable proportion users to put off their CS5 upgrades and Adobe is in a world of hurt. Is that what they are doing here... maybe?
Apple is not going to "destroy" MS, or Google (it could do it to Adobe but probably won't) but a case can be made that it is outcompeting them right now. Its moves over the past decade have largely been winners with an unprecedented hit rate. We'll see how this walled garden vs. wild bazaar battle plays out but I'm not betting against Apple yet. Oh, and don't bother with Newton, Cube, AppleTV jabs - those are relatively million $ flops at worst (ATV isn't even a flop) compared to the billion dollar successes with Mac/OSX, iPod, iPhone, iTunes etc.
The dumb developer do not know how to code in HTML 5. That's why he had to code a dumb site for iPhone.
Another reason might be that most of the Window PCs run some version of IE browsers which don't support H5 yet. Telling these Window users to switch browsers is like telling you to move off of Safari (if Apple would let you).
it can only be because he's either unaware of HTML5 Canvas. Brimelow might also be selectively forgetting that Adobe, also did nothing for years to deliver either an optimized, functional Flash plugin for the Mac platform or to deliver a mobile version of Flash that actually worked prior to the success of the iPhone.
I think this sums it up pretty well. Even though Adobe is imho rightfully angry at this attack on one of their core platforms, by opposing Canvas, Adobe is also attacking Apple. That and the "slights" at Apple by not creating an optimum Flash experience on MacOS has prob made Cupertino decide to show Adobe who the Alpha male on the playground is.
Also, the move by Apple has refocused attention and engineering towards HTML 5. So, as sad as it may be for Adobe, the move actually makes a lot of sense. This is also just Apple pushing for a new and open standard. And in the end, Adobe's bread and butter IS developer productivity tools. There's really no reason why it shouldn't be able to repurpose the Flash IDE towards producing native code in stead of a wrapped Flash runtime.
Of course, "open" has never been part of Apple's vocabulary. That sits better with Google. But as long as the end result is the push for open standard we'll all benefit.
The timing of the move though I don't understand. Adobe tools have been crucial to Apple's success. Why they would purposely hurt Adobe before a major launch is beyond me. Perhaps the Alpha dog thing.
How about FreeHand! Man this is and or was an OUTSTANDING Vector based drawing program.
I and MANY others were very disappointed when it wasn't sold off separately when MacroMedia sold to Adobe.
Speak of monopoly - I was surprise the government didn't make adobe sell it, so as to make sure they didn't have a monopoly in this area.
FreeHand and Illustrator went back and forth over the years, as to which one was best. A good fight for users as it brought about great changes in both applications.
I for one, will only go as high on the Mac OS, as to allow me to still use FreeHand, as it is the application I use most to make a living.
Yes, I am working at learning Illustrator, but don't like being FORCED to do so.
Flash is like a floppy drive its old slow and obsolete. The problem with all of this is many companies and design agency's invested so much money in flash. I like the direction that Apple is taking. We really don't need flash anymore and there are people whining about we need it because they have invested so much time and man hours learning it. Objective-C is a SOLID platform its been around since 1986. Its FAST and reliable. So all of your ACTIONSCRIPT 3 developers Learn Objective-C and quit complaining. If you want to do cool stuff within the browser then learn HTML 5 and learn http://webkit.org/
Adobe has run out of GAS. Most of its selling features for CS5 was the flash iphone but i am glad Apple Put a stop to it. ALSO Adobe should not charge so much money for its creative suite. If there was open source alternatives to it people would switch
Comments
what if this move you are upset about is part of their getting their act together to "kick ass" in that it is directly related to supporting multiple apps running as AppleInsider has suggested? What if their efficient implementation of multiprocessing apps to call their APIs instead of bypassing them?
I understand Apple wants to get everyone to play nice together. It is the amount of control that Apple seems to take to protect us all that has me scared to death. First they seem to have an arbitrary selection process for there apps store. Second they seem to have one set of APIs for them to develop apps and another APIs for everyone else. This creates a situation that allows them to take over any market some other developer creates. This is very similar to what MS did. The power that the apps store and APIs give Apple will be hard to not abuse.
no need to dumb down anything - what does your web site do that can't be done in HTML5?
The dumb developer do not know how to code in HTML 5. That's why he had to code a dumb site for iPhone.
If Apple continues with the BS that they have been up to of late, I will move on again. This is sad for me. Apple is starting to act very much like MS and will end up in the same type of trouble that they had with anti-trust. Before you try to say that they are a small player and can do what they want with there system. They are starting to be the dominate player in the mobile field and are going to have to start to play by another set of rules if things keep going in this direction.
Apple has come back from the brink and I hope that they can get there act together and kick ass. If not I for one will move on.
No one can sue Apple for monopoly if it doesn't have a monopoly.
No one can sue Apple for monopoly if it doesn't have a monopoly.
Apple is getting very close to a monopoly in mobile operating systems. If they keep having the success that they have had, it won't be long.
Apple is getting very close to a monopoly in mobile operating systems. If they keep having the success that they have had, it won't be long.
Oh give me a break! This is simply pure FUD. Last time I checked, there is Android, RIM, WinMo, Palm, Symbian, etc. Nice that you conveniently left that part out eh? Besides, with the way the Android boys are kicking, Android will overtake the iPhone by when????? This time next Thursday? Then, you can sleep nice knowing open source (and the world) was victorious over closed, "safe", and proprietary toasters.
You are blowing this thing WAY out of proportion. Tech-heads may not like this situation because they have some sense of holier-than-thou attitude that transcends the average-Joe that Apple is concentrating on for their mobile systems.
What it comes down to is one simple thing. Money. Clamor all you want but developers will go to where the money is. Joe's will continue to buy Apple's products because they have no clue whatsoever about the whining and screaming that Adobe is putting out nor about the gestapo-policies you folks are screaming that Apple is implementing.
You even mentioned the success Apple is having in selling iPhones. Maybe they have that success because they are doing something everyone else loves but you deplore? Might want to do some inner soul-searching.
The people generating most of the profits for Apple simply do.not.care!
The majority of iPhone developers (IMHO) simply do not care.
So who does care??? Flash folks... which goes back to iPhone users that do.not.care.
Next time at 11 - Our sun will go supernova in 5-billion years! Let's not innovate! Let's evacuate!
Hate the game, not the players will you?
I don't think we should automatically assume Apple has the upper-hand here. If Adobe's CS Suite wasn't available for the Mac platform, I bet a lot less people would be using the platform.
If Apple threaten Adobe's business, Adobe can do far more damage in reverse. Obviously it affects their business somewhat initially too but it won't be long-lasting.
I really don't see why there has to be such a huge problem - the tech industry always seems to fight towards problems than find solutions. Adobe are well known as the best company for content creation software. If they simply took on board Apple's Canvas addition to the HTML 5 spec and developed software like Flash but using Javascript instead of Actionscript, how would they lose money?
If anything, they'd make more money because designers would be able to build entire sites by themselves in the software without learning code and know that their site is standards compliant. Device manufacturers don't have to wait for hardware-acceleration support, they can build it in themselves.
It's not an overnight deal but if Adobe can change 60 million lines of code in one year in a CS update, they can pull this off too.
It may require converging Dreamweaver and software like the Flash app but it would help sell the CS 5 Suite way more than iPhone targeting from the Flash software. It should even be able to fulfill that role as they'd be able to publish apps that run on webkit's HTML 5 and Javascript interpreter and they will work on any HTML 5 compliant platform - Nexus One, Droid, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Blackberry, all netbooks/laptops/desktops running Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari and every OS - that's not more than the Flash install base (thanks once again Internet Explorer for the lack of standards support) but it's a big market and a potential way to kill IE too. Developers can all accelerate it as fast as they want, which is more than they can do with a Flash plugin.
Like I say, if they'd all just try and work together on this stuff, it would be easier in the end for publishers and consumers who are the only ones that really matter in all this. It's not about a pissing content between companies to see who actually has the last word, it's about providing business solutions that generate revenue and keep the web interesting and the constant bickering is helping no one.
Adobe's products are mostly closed off and that's not good for the future of the web, nor are plugins. It should never have been allowed to go this far to have nearly all web video dependent on a single company. Adobe just need to do the smartest thing and play along. They will come off better for it in the end.
I have to disagree strongly with you. A good case in point was Avid pulling out of the Mac market. That was said to be a nail in Apple's coffin. Apple doesn't just sit there and watch the product vanish entirely with no response. Apple bought several companies and the results arenthe Final Cut Suite which has basically marginalized Avid, the industry standard.
If Adobe and even Microsoft ever decided to drop Apple they'd live to regret it. Apple's response would be to build software that's better and cheaper than Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. And it can be done. Apple simply doesn't go after Adobe's market so long as Adobe doesn't force Apple to do so by pulling out.
Remember Avid truly was in Adobe's position. It was simply unthinkable that anyone could topple Avid. Apple did and they did it in record time.
I've been using Adobe's apps since the very beginning. And I am so sick of Adobe. I would love Apple to go after Adobe. Virtually everyone I know feels the same way. We're sick to death of Adobe's rising prices and extreme activation measures.
If Adobe dropped Apple, I'd clap clap clap. Because I know what Apple's response would be. Build a better graphics suite and sell it for less.
Bring it on.
'Oh dear.' (Says in a high tone mocking voice.)
What's this? What goes around comes around?
"You're a big guy. But you're in bad shape. Now, for me, it's a 24 hour job." Carter (Michael Caine.)
And Apple are giving Adobe the bitch slapping they're had coming for a llllllooooooonnnnnnnng time.
In bouncer talk? Adobe are being piled on, dragged to the exit and thrown down the stairs. Sure, you kinda feel sorry for the drunk that got it in the neck...but you think, also, perhaps he had it coming. kinda his fault.
Adobe for years treated us to 2nd rate ports, feature omissions or no software at all or refused to support Apple's initiatives, waiting for the Mac platform to whither and die while nailing their support to the PC mast. Now that it hasn't panned out that way, they're complaining Apple isn't supporting them? Too bad. Coupled with their CEO's patronising attitude, and Adobe in general, to Apple and Mac users.
MacDailyNews Take: Tough Adobe. You should have focused more on Apple's Mac instead of foolishly waiting for the platform to die and then, when it didn't drop dead as you hoped, treating Mac users as second-class citizens while pimping inferior Windows PCs. Flash is a proprietary, resource-hogging, browser-crashing abomination and we don't want ported software on our iPhones, iPads, or Macs; software designed for the lowest common denominator is inferior to software designed to take advantage of individual platforms' strengths.
A bit of perspective: Apple is currently worth 12 times that of little, old, lazy, shortsighted, back-stabbing Adobe and Apple has enough cash on hand to buy Adobe - twice, with billions left over. Not that they'd want it. Although, it would be fun to take Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, and Dreamweaver Mac-only and put the rest of the company out of its misery.
Ever launch Photoshop? The length of time it takes for that mess of spaghetti code to launch is one reason why we find ourselves using Pixelmator pretty much exclusively nowadays.
I agree with the above.
Poor backstabbing Adobe is bleating that friends should treat one another better? How ironic. They dropped Premiere for the Mac. Apple did Final Cut and sawed them off at the knees.
This isn't just sawing them off at the knees, this lack of support for Flash (justifiably) is a kick in the nuts, a knee in the face and a push down the stairs.
Adobe stopped writing software years ago. They stopped innovating. They stopped trying.
Adobe, Jobs gave you a hint. Write some HTML5 tools...and get back to being a creative authorship company. Cos you sure as hell aint a standards based company. Flash. Slow. Buggy. Insecure. How come Apple has to be the only company that supports it? It's old. It's outdated. There's a new kid in town that aint proprietary.
Abobe Flash proprietary? Or Apple proprietary? I'm going Apple. Everytime.
I don't want Adobe's Mac users can suck it generalised platform to the lowest coming denominator. It wasn't built from the ground up to be mobile. It shows.
Adobe are a fat, lazy company that have been sitting on their ass for years...charging us every more for CS for very little return and even feature omission.
Go screw yourselves.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Pure class and absolutely nothing new: "Go screw yourself" is exactly what Adobe's been saying to Apple Mac users for the last 15 years.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Notice a theme?
Apple are out competing these guys. Out innovating these guys. They had their day in the sun. Jobs is going after them, gunning them down, one by one.
They'll rue the day they crossed Jobs.
Every last one of them.
Lemon Bon Bon.
If you didn't know any better you would assume that the iPhone ran HTML5 rather than basically it's own proprietary language which ultimately is comparable to Flash and Silverlight except that it only works on the iPhone.
Apple doesn't NEED to work with them. everything they need is in the API. Adobe's programmers just need to read the documentations in xCode.
Or you are saying that Apple should send a team of teachers over, and teach them how to program?
Actually Adobe can just send some of their programmers over to Standford to take the iPhone programming class, it's pretty comprehensive.
Read my post again. I said MOBILE Safari.
Dell, M$, Google and Adobe.
Notice a theme?
Apple are out competing these guys. Out innovating these guys. They had their day in the sun. Jobs is going after them, gunning them down, one by one.
They'll rue the day they crossed Jobs.
Every last one of them.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Wow, just wow.
Apple are out competing Adobe how exactly? Flash has near 100% penetration on PCs. Photoshop totally dominates the graphic design market.
Google dominates search. Android is a far more advanced OS than even iPhone OS 4, and Android market share is rapidly rising.
And as for MS... oh come on. Think before you type.
Another element to this 'debate' (more like shouting match) is the casual tossing in of the phrases 'monopoly' and 'anti-trust'. This is just ridiculous! Apple's main strategic thrust here is to promote the development and adoption of HTML5 - an open standard - the very antithesis of monopoly! Instead, the argument goes, Apple and others should subvert their development plans to fit in with Adobe's monopolistic hegemony! The late George Carlin did a bit in one of his HBO specials where he laments that critical thinking is no longer taught in US schools. Boy, did he have a point!
What the world needs, and has needed for many years, are serious, viable competitors to Microsoft and Adobe. In the absence of that (and Apple are not really directly competing with MS because they have an entirely different business model and do not participate in the mass commodity sector of the market) we've got bloated quasi-monopolies dominating their respective fields. Adobe were in such a position of strength, they could have innovated from the front. Instead they sat back on the profit pile accruing from their captive market and have slowly fossilised. In five years' time all this blather will be forgotten and the tech world will be a better place. Apple are one of the key instruments of change here, and all kudos to them for that.
Apple doesn't NEED to work with them. everything they need is in the API. Adobe's programmers just need to read the documentations in xCode.
Or you are saying that Apple should send a team of teachers over, and teach them how to program?
Actually Adobe can just send some of their programmers over to Standford to take the iPhone programming class, it's pretty comprehensive.
It's too bad you don't know what you're talking about. At all.
Many of the performance optimizations afforded to Flash on Windows (in 10.1 specifically) are a direct result of access to hardware acceleration. The plugin development structure in Safari does not allow the same access. It cannot be done because Apple does not make available the required APIs.
Wow, just wow.
Apple are out competing Adobe how exactly? Flash has near 100% penetration on PCs. Photoshop totally dominates the graphic design market.
Google dominates search. Android is a far more advanced OS than even iPhone OS 4, and Android market share is rapidly rising.
And as for MS... oh come on. Think before you type.
You make some simple face value statements but that that is not the story about competition is it? You have to look at the strategic moves and metrics movements from the baseline.
Windows had 97% share in US Desktops, now it is high 80s - mostly gone to Apple (some linux) - out-competing (i.e. growing share and sales) - they don't have to have 100% to be winning the war (their share by $ value of PC sales is much higher of course due to their much higher ASP). I imagine they would be happy to never take more than 20% of the traditional computer market by unit sales but 80% of the profit (which is their model).
Google is dominant in search but that is the not the competitive ground - Apple is trying to compete in mobile ad impressions served. iAd is way more innovative than anything Google has dreamed up - Google can't even get their Admob acquisition straight.
Android is not way more advanced - they are pretty comparable (esp w/ 4.0) and iPhone still has a clear usability advantage for the vast majority of users (non-technical people). Google is not growing the Android market, it is giving Android away to myriad handset makers who are making the major $ investments. No wonder Android is growing but it is not attacking iPhone (holding share, growing sales) but WinMob and Nokia. For every Droid/N1/Evo4 there is a MotoDevour, Eris etc. (weak and cheap). Google make nothing from it except the ad impressions it can get on the platform. Apple's business strategy with iPhone has been vastly superior to Google's. We will see how it plays out (iPod vs. All or Mac vs. Windows 95) but so far, clear victory and billions of $s to Apple.
Adobe - near 100% Flash penetration was the baseline where Apple came into this fight. Now all major video sites are moving off it (slowly), there is a growing anti-flash movement and it is largely because Apple got the ball rolling (remember the parallel h264 youtube for iPhone 1.0) and has kept up the momentum. Photoshop is a market leader but it is a fat bloated old-fashioned product, used by a tiny niche of computer users who are all but irrelevant for Apple these days (250K Mac Pros out of 11M Mac sales is not a big deal even at a 2-3x ASP). If Apple wanted to, it could crush PS too - buy Pixelmator, sprinkle its fairy dust and take enough revenue and profit from Adobe to make them the basket case to investors that Palm is today. It would make Apple no real money to invest in competing products and it would divert them from revenue/profit positive ventures so they won't but they could. It could do the same with buying Quark etc. but there are no serious $s in that any more at Apple's current scale and consumer focus. To be honest, all Apple would have to do is something to convince some reasonable proportion users to put off their CS5 upgrades and Adobe is in a world of hurt. Is that what they are doing here... maybe?
Apple is not going to "destroy" MS, or Google (it could do it to Adobe but probably won't) but a case can be made that it is outcompeting them right now. Its moves over the past decade have largely been winners with an unprecedented hit rate. We'll see how this walled garden vs. wild bazaar battle plays out but I'm not betting against Apple yet. Oh, and don't bother with Newton, Cube, AppleTV jabs - those are relatively million $ flops at worst (ATV isn't even a flop) compared to the billion dollar successes with Mac/OSX, iPod, iPhone, iTunes etc.
The dumb developer do not know how to code in HTML 5. That's why he had to code a dumb site for iPhone.
Another reason might be that most of the Window PCs run some version of IE browsers which don't support H5 yet. Telling these Window users to switch browsers is like telling you to move off of Safari (if Apple would let you).
it can only be because he's either unaware of HTML5 Canvas. Brimelow might also be selectively forgetting that Adobe, also did nothing for years to deliver either an optimized, functional Flash plugin for the Mac platform or to deliver a mobile version of Flash that actually worked prior to the success of the iPhone.
I think this sums it up pretty well. Even though Adobe is imho rightfully angry at this attack on one of their core platforms, by opposing Canvas, Adobe is also attacking Apple. That and the "slights" at Apple by not creating an optimum Flash experience on MacOS has prob made Cupertino decide to show Adobe who the Alpha male on the playground is.
Also, the move by Apple has refocused attention and engineering towards HTML 5. So, as sad as it may be for Adobe, the move actually makes a lot of sense. This is also just Apple pushing for a new and open standard. And in the end, Adobe's bread and butter IS developer productivity tools. There's really no reason why it shouldn't be able to repurpose the Flash IDE towards producing native code in stead of a wrapped Flash runtime.
Of course, "open" has never been part of Apple's vocabulary. That sits better with Google. But as long as the end result is the push for open standard we'll all benefit.
The timing of the move though I don't understand. Adobe tools have been crucial to Apple's success. Why they would purposely hurt Adobe before a major launch is beyond me. Perhaps the Alpha dog thing.
I and MANY others were very disappointed when it wasn't sold off separately when MacroMedia sold to Adobe.
Speak of monopoly - I was surprise the government didn't make adobe sell it, so as to make sure they didn't have a monopoly in this area.
FreeHand and Illustrator went back and forth over the years, as to which one was best. A good fight for users as it brought about great changes in both applications.
I for one, will only go as high on the Mac OS, as to allow me to still use FreeHand, as it is the application I use most to make a living.
Yes, I am working at learning Illustrator, but don't like being FORCED to do so.
In any case, let the fun begin?
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Adobe has run out of GAS. Most of its selling features for CS5 was the flash iphone but i am glad Apple Put a stop to it. ALSO Adobe should not charge so much money for its creative suite. If there was open source alternatives to it people would switch