This was nothing really different from what every other notebook maker does every few months.
The only thing notable about it is that Apple does it infrequently. And the hardware is falling further behind the competition.
Yes Apple is doomed as someone keeps saying in jest here. It's about the OS as well as hardware. The so called competition's profitability and market cap also tell a story.
Is "misunderestimated" even a word? Not according to Dictionary.com.
Anyways, according to critics like yourself, supply should be quite adequate since nobody in their right mind would buy a 13" given the pitiful specs and lack of an i5.
Dictionary.com is not the last word on words. Google it and you might catch some usage nuances.
The 13" is great for students and others who need a small machine with OK performance. It will sell like the prior iteration sold, I suppose.
While a netbook likely would also suit the needs of many students and other people, the MBP is a much nicer machine, and much more capable if they want/need that, or even if they don't.
OT: And there ain't nobody like myself, so jumping to conclusions is unlikely to be a good strategy.
If you're buying a 17-inch Core i7 with Applecare, chances are its for your own business or your employer's picking up some or most of the cost.
The 17-inch model is for those who spend hours a day working with media applications such as Apple's Pro apps or the Adobe's CS, in order to make money.
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
compare the price with the HP Envy. the HP has better graphics, but once you add in the extra battery it's the same price or maybe a bit less than Apple. and who would you trust with that much money if you need support? going to the genius bar and speaking English to someone? or calling 5000 miles away and fighting the battle of the script for 2 hours after being on hold for another 2 hours?
i just had my 3GS exchanged and it took me 20 minutes in the Apple store including the wait time
THe HP Envy series is also a major waste of money for what you get. However I still believe your getting ripped off paying 3k for a 17" notebook made by anyone.
As far as technical support I agree Apple has the best even though I never need tech support from anyone.
When are the mods going to DO THEIR JOB and get rid of this guy? I got news for you, JB, if you think you're being clever by posting a "thinly veiled commercial" about a competitor on an Apple fansite and trying to disguise it by saying it's no big deal ... you're wrong. But there are two things that I don't understand: .... One, How low can a competitor go when they have to have people like you populate an Apple fansite to bash Apple (shouldn't they just try making better products?) ... and two: How can the mods not see this person for what he is ..... or do they just don't give a damn?
I was posting an random example of a routine "new processor" refresh. My guess is that many more companies are getting new processors too. It was an example to bolster a point made in a different post, which was that such events are minor.
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
the 13" Envy is a C2D as well. Reason is that the i Core CPUs have the Intel graphics in the same package as the CPU. makes it larger and harder to put in a smaller laptop that will also have it's own discrete graphics.
with Nvidia the 330M is probably in the same chip as the chipset
I am sure you got a sweet machine for that - did you get the solid state drive?
Does the "fat" in fatfred refer to the size of your wallet?
I am going to get a 15, hopefully this weekend, but will probably end up paying around $2k for it. I just can't justify spending more (on my income). I think it would be really sweet to have a solid state disk.
Note: this post intended to be humorous, no offense intended...
No worries, I can take it! Wouldn't put it in my name if I was offended by such comments :]
Haha, it refers to me being overweight once and at the same time a nickname of one of my former favorite football players who has the same name as me. But my wallet most certainly lost some weight today!
Yeah I took the small SolidState ... I hope I can manage with 128GB and then continue to use extern HDs for storage.
I also picked the Hi-Res Glossy - heard mixed opinions about glossy. But when are you working outside directly in the sun - that is not a very nice work environment anyways. And with all my previous anti-glare laptops, it's not like the sun has no effect on them. So I hope I made the right choice!
Should one take this to mean that there's less interest in the Core 2010 versions?
One would have reasoned that the i5/i7 versions would have been the more desirable ones...
What you are missing is that battery life is huge for many users of the 13" MBP. Especially if Apple can deliver better performance in an app around faster machine. One common user that would see a huge upside to the new machines is the average student. There are certainly some students that need a powerful machine but what many need is portability.
Besides that the likely candidate CPU beyound Core 2, in the 13", would likely be the i3 which isn't in mass production and doesn't offer a lot of advantages over Core 2. I3 also hass the massive disadvantage of the integrated Intel GPU.
For a good performing low end machine Apple made the right choices in my mind. They focused on the things that make a huge difference to users, that is the GPU, RAM and other details external to the CPU. It will be interesting to see performance numbers comparing this rev to the last, I suspect people will be pleasantly surprised.
Basically in the 13" MBP Apple offers a smartly performing machine with fantastic battery life. This is a good deal. In comparison to Apples new top end machines it is an even better deal because Apple can't be bothered to put in a top end GPU system in any of it's notebooks. Basically you only have one GPU to choose from in the 15 & 17" machines.
Regarding your sig - I tried the HTML 5 Video, and it looked like complete crap. I'm no fan of flash - but HTML has a way to go if the youtube beta is anything to go by.
Understand that point and it is much easier to understand Apples line up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
Not with good battery life.
Quote:
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Because of a number of reasons but most importantly it would keep Apple from producing a machine that meets the primary needs of its most common users. The 13" is a high mobility battery powered machine. It isn't for the power user.
Quote:
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
Certainly that is possible but what would you end up with after building such a machine? Would that machine be marketable to Apples primary customer base? Remember Apple sells these things by the hundreds of millions to students and the like who care more about portability and long life on a battery charge. Not to mention how hot a 13" machine would get with all of that high performance hardware installed.
Your position is not totally unreasonable especially when applied to the larger MBP. In fact I think it is a much stronger arguement in the context of the 17" MBP. Here you have a machine that can directly leverage a higher end GPU yet every MBP with a descrete GPU uses the same model. That sucks much more than the limitations we see in the 13" model. In my mind your arguement is more valid at the top of the line.
What will be more interesting in my mind is seeing what Apple does in six to eight months for an upgrade. By that time Intel should have a firm grasp on production of it's 32nm notebook chips and hopefully something more suitable for the 13" machine. Maybe at that time we could get the hybrid approach. Sadly Intel doesn't have a low power solution that at the same time produces good graphics results.
I was waiting for the 13" MBP to get an i5 update so I could sell my 15" MBP but I guess that won't happen this year. I'm stunned in two ways, one in that Apple used a 2+ year old cpu which probably won't even be produced much longer & two, that the 13" MBP is selling out. I find it hard to believe that people will pay for a processor that is really considered old technology now. I'm really stuck, unless someone finds a nice 13" that can we can install Snow Leopard on I'm not buying anything. Oh Well. Guess I'll just keep plugging away on my G5 Mac Pro, 15" 2008 Core2Duo MBP & 2010 Dell Mini 10v OSX.
I was waiting for the 13" MBP to get an i5 update so I could sell my 15" MBP but I guess that won't happen this year. I'm stunned in two ways, one in that Apple used a 2+ year old cpu which probably won't even be produced much longer & two, that the 13" MBP is selling out. I find it hard to believe that people will pay for a processor that is really considered old technology now. I'm really stuck, unless someone finds a nice 13" that can we can install Snow Leopard on I'm not buying anything. Oh Well. Guess I'll just keep plugging away on my G5 Mac Pro, 15" 2008 Core2Duo MBP & 2010 Dell Mini 10v OSX.
You're 'stunned' because others don't follow your purchase preferences/habits? Yikes, talk about arrogance.
Regarding your sig - I tried the HTML 5 Video, and it looked like complete crap. I'm no fan of flash - but HTML has a way to go if the youtube beta is anything to go by.
What about the HTML was crap? The video quality is the same regardless since it's H.264 in Flash or HTML5. The controls are JavaScript. The benefit of using HTMl5 over Flash comes down to the load on your system. The benefits of Flash over HTML5 is that the code to give you all the features of Flash, including Full Screen, haven't yet arrived.
I ordered my 13 inch yesterday at 6:07 AM PST and the page said 24 hours. After I confirmed the order email and checked status it now said to ship in 2-4 days. So the status was not correct from the minute the MacBook Pro 13 went on sale. I have no idea when it will ship now.
I was waiting for the 13" MBP to get an i5 update so I could sell my 15" MBP but I guess that won't happen this year. I'm stunned in two ways, one in that Apple used a 2+ year old cpu which probably won't even be produced much longer & two, that the 13" MBP is selling out. I find it hard to believe that people will pay for a processor that is really considered old technology now. I'm really stuck, unless someone finds a nice 13" that can we can install Snow Leopard on I'm not buying anything. Oh Well. Guess I'll just keep plugging away on my G5 Mac Pro, 15" 2008 Core2Duo MBP & 2010 Dell Mini 10v OSX.
Are there any moderators who can create a questionary for AI users for all of us to answer our primarily use of MBP?
People talk about powerful processors as of an obsolete tech. My bet is that around 50% of mac users do not do more demanding tasks than running iTunes and Flash vids on internet. You simply do not need a powerful top of the line chip to check email and work in Microsoft Office of iWork (actually for Office some times it seems this thing wants a machine out of the dream to start up fast)
Apple this week already issued the first software update for its just-released mid-2010 MacBook Pro models. The update applies to those who bought the new 15- and 17-inch models, .
good. cause before it was release the machines and the software 3-5 days later. would have been nicer if the right software was on the machines however. Also, curious that the system doesn't do an auto check during the start up stuff. would be a nice touch since some folks aren't so savvy to guess that maybe they aren't up to date or are switchers and don't yet know how
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Hmmm?
Should one take this to mean that there's less interest in the Core 2010 versions?
One would have reasoned that the i5/i7 versions would have been the more desirable ones...
the 13s are mostly students and low end users. The students will wait to see if there's a back to school like the last couple of years.
the 15 inch and 17 inch are what the professionals and geeks want so they will grab them over the next handful of weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
As with all higher end MBP's its the price that isn desirable. People will pay 1200.00 for a notebook but for a 17" with a core i7 to pay 3000.00 with Applecare is insane.
It's only insane if folks won't buy it.
Heck some folks could say that $900 for Photoshop is insane. But all those professionals that have made it the de facto standard in graphics will pay that price so of course Adobe isn't thinking about lowering it.
The 15" Alienware (sorry, no 13" from Alienware) costs $1199
The Alienware has:
-A bigger screen
-A slightly faster HD
The MacBook Pro has:
-An extra Gig of RAM
-A much faster GPU
-Way better battery life
-Aluminum enclosure
-Mac OS X Snow Leopard
-iLife '09
I won't even bother to compare a HP Touchsmart with the new iMacs; they are not only faster and more beautiful/thin, they also have IPS, not to mention are cheaper.
The 15" Alienware (sorry, no 13" from Alienware) costs $1199
The Alienware has:
-A bigger screen
-A slightly faster HD
The MacBook Pro has:
-An extra Gig of RAM
-A much faster GPU
-Way better battery life
-Aluminum enclosure
-Mac OS X Snow Leopard
-iLife '09
I won't even bother to compare a HP Touchsmart with the new iMacs; they are not only faster and more beautiful/thin, they also have IPS, not to mention are cheaper.
I hope the day will come when no PCs left on this planet )
Comments
This was nothing really different from what every other notebook maker does every few months.
The only thing notable about it is that Apple does it infrequently. And the hardware is falling further behind the competition.
Yes Apple is doomed
p.s. I like your request not be fed
Is "misunderestimated" even a word? Not according to Dictionary.com.
Anyways, according to critics like yourself, supply should be quite adequate since nobody in their right mind would buy a 13" given the pitiful specs and lack of an i5.
Dictionary.com is not the last word on words. Google it and you might catch some usage nuances.
The 13" is great for students and others who need a small machine with OK performance. It will sell like the prior iteration sold, I suppose.
While a netbook likely would also suit the needs of many students and other people, the MBP is a much nicer machine, and much more capable if they want/need that, or even if they don't.
OT: And there ain't nobody like myself, so jumping to conclusions is unlikely to be a good strategy.
If you're buying a 17-inch Core i7 with Applecare, chances are its for your own business or your employer's picking up some or most of the cost.
The 17-inch model is for those who spend hours a day working with media applications such as Apple's Pro apps or the Adobe's CS, in order to make money.
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
compare the price with the HP Envy. the HP has better graphics, but once you add in the extra battery it's the same price or maybe a bit less than Apple. and who would you trust with that much money if you need support? going to the genius bar and speaking English to someone? or calling 5000 miles away and fighting the battle of the script for 2 hours after being on hold for another 2 hours?
i just had my 3GS exchanged and it took me 20 minutes in the Apple store including the wait time
THe HP Envy series is also a major waste of money for what you get. However I still believe your getting ripped off paying 3k for a 17" notebook made by anyone.
As far as technical support I agree Apple has the best even though I never need tech support from anyone.
When are the mods going to DO THEIR JOB and get rid of this guy? I got news for you, JB, if you think you're being clever by posting a "thinly veiled commercial" about a competitor on an Apple fansite and trying to disguise it by saying it's no big deal ... you're wrong. But there are two things that I don't understand: .... One, How low can a competitor go when they have to have people like you populate an Apple fansite to bash Apple (shouldn't they just try making better products?) ... and two: How can the mods not see this person for what he is ..... or do they just don't give a damn?
I was posting an random example of a routine "new processor" refresh. My guess is that many more companies are getting new processors too. It was an example to bolster a point made in a different post, which was that such events are minor.
I'm sorry if you took it as an advertisement.
Why do you say that? Do you have any basis for what you stated?
Yeah. They're sh**. That's the basis.
EDIT: and I see the little "banned" tag we all knew was coming. Shocker.
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
the 13" Envy is a C2D as well. Reason is that the i Core CPUs have the Intel graphics in the same package as the CPU. makes it larger and harder to put in a smaller laptop that will also have it's own discrete graphics.
with Nvidia the 330M is probably in the same chip as the chipset
I am sure you got a sweet machine for that - did you get the solid state drive?
Does the "fat" in fatfred refer to the size of your wallet?
I am going to get a 15, hopefully this weekend, but will probably end up paying around $2k for it. I just can't justify spending more (on my income). I think it would be really sweet to have a solid state disk.
Note: this post intended to be humorous, no offense intended...
No worries, I can take it! Wouldn't put it in my name if I was offended by such comments :]
Haha, it refers to me being overweight once and at the same time a nickname of one of my former favorite football players who has the same name as me. But my wallet most certainly lost some weight today!
Yeah I took the small SolidState ... I hope I can manage with 128GB and then continue to use extern HDs for storage.
I also picked the Hi-Res Glossy - heard mixed opinions about glossy. But when are you working outside directly in the sun - that is not a very nice work environment anyways. And with all my previous anti-glare laptops, it's not like the sun has no effect on them. So I hope I made the right choice!
Hmmm?
Should one take this to mean that there's less interest in the Core 2010 versions?
One would have reasoned that the i5/i7 versions would have been the more desirable ones...
What you are missing is that battery life is huge for many users of the 13" MBP. Especially if Apple can deliver better performance in an app around faster machine. One common user that would see a huge upside to the new machines is the average student. There are certainly some students that need a powerful machine but what many need is portability.
Besides that the likely candidate CPU beyound Core 2, in the 13", would likely be the i3 which isn't in mass production and doesn't offer a lot of advantages over Core 2. I3 also hass the massive disadvantage of the integrated Intel GPU.
For a good performing low end machine Apple made the right choices in my mind. They focused on the things that make a huge difference to users, that is the GPU, RAM and other details external to the CPU. It will be interesting to see performance numbers comparing this rev to the last, I suspect people will be pleasantly surprised.
Basically in the 13" MBP Apple offers a smartly performing machine with fantastic battery life. This is a good deal. In comparison to Apples new top end machines it is an even better deal because Apple can't be bothered to put in a top end GPU system in any of it's notebooks. Basically you only have one GPU to choose from in the 15 & 17" machines.
Dave
Macs always do well.
The critics know nothing.
Regarding your sig - I tried the HTML 5 Video, and it looked like complete crap. I'm no fan of flash - but HTML has a way to go if the youtube beta is anything to go by.
Well I know in the world of Apple the i7 17 inch is high end. However for those of use that are also use to the Windows world its not. I have been using a quad core in my notebook for over a year now.
Not with good battery life.
What I have also always found interesting about Apple is screen size is also linked with power and performance. As an example why can't a 13" MBP have a high end core i5.
Because of a number of reasons but most importantly it would keep Apple from producing a machine that meets the primary needs of its most common users. The 13" is a high mobility battery powered machine. It isn't for the power user.
Its not out of the question that someone would want a very high end processor and GPU in a smaller form factor.
Certainly that is possible but what would you end up with after building such a machine? Would that machine be marketable to Apples primary customer base? Remember Apple sells these things by the hundreds of millions to students and the like who care more about portability and long life on a battery charge. Not to mention how hot a 13" machine would get with all of that high performance hardware installed.
Your position is not totally unreasonable especially when applied to the larger MBP. In fact I think it is a much stronger arguement in the context of the 17" MBP. Here you have a machine that can directly leverage a higher end GPU yet every MBP with a descrete GPU uses the same model. That sucks much more than the limitations we see in the 13" model. In my mind your arguement is more valid at the top of the line.
What will be more interesting in my mind is seeing what Apple does in six to eight months for an upgrade. By that time Intel should have a firm grasp on production of it's 32nm notebook chips and hopefully something more suitable for the 13" machine. Maybe at that time we could get the hybrid approach. Sadly Intel doesn't have a low power solution that at the same time produces good graphics results.
Dave
I was waiting for the 13" MBP to get an i5 update so I could sell my 15" MBP but I guess that won't happen this year. I'm stunned in two ways, one in that Apple used a 2+ year old cpu which probably won't even be produced much longer & two, that the 13" MBP is selling out. I find it hard to believe that people will pay for a processor that is really considered old technology now. I'm really stuck, unless someone finds a nice 13" that can we can install Snow Leopard on I'm not buying anything. Oh Well. Guess I'll just keep plugging away on my G5 Mac Pro, 15" 2008 Core2Duo MBP & 2010 Dell Mini 10v OSX.
You're 'stunned' because others don't follow your purchase preferences/habits? Yikes, talk about arrogance.
Regarding your sig - I tried the HTML 5 Video, and it looked like complete crap. I'm no fan of flash - but HTML has a way to go if the youtube beta is anything to go by.
What about the HTML was crap? The video quality is the same regardless since it's H.264 in Flash or HTML5. The controls are JavaScript. The benefit of using HTMl5 over Flash comes down to the load on your system. The benefits of Flash over HTML5 is that the code to give you all the features of Flash, including Full Screen, haven't yet arrived.
I was waiting for the 13" MBP to get an i5 update so I could sell my 15" MBP but I guess that won't happen this year. I'm stunned in two ways, one in that Apple used a 2+ year old cpu which probably won't even be produced much longer & two, that the 13" MBP is selling out. I find it hard to believe that people will pay for a processor that is really considered old technology now. I'm really stuck, unless someone finds a nice 13" that can we can install Snow Leopard on I'm not buying anything. Oh Well. Guess I'll just keep plugging away on my G5 Mac Pro, 15" 2008 Core2Duo MBP & 2010 Dell Mini 10v OSX.
Are there any moderators who can create a questionary for AI users for all of us to answer our primarily use of MBP?
People talk about powerful processors as of an obsolete tech. My bet is that around 50% of mac users do not do more demanding tasks than running iTunes and Flash vids on internet. You simply do not need a powerful top of the line chip to check email and work in Microsoft Office of iWork (actually for Office some times it seems this thing wants a machine out of the dream to start up fast
Apple this week already issued the first software update for its just-released mid-2010 MacBook Pro models. The update applies to those who bought the new 15- and 17-inch models, .
good. cause before it was release the machines and the software 3-5 days later. would have been nicer if the right software was on the machines however. Also, curious that the system doesn't do an auto check during the start up stuff. would be a nice touch since some folks aren't so savvy to guess that maybe they aren't up to date or are switchers and don't yet know how
Hmmm?
Should one take this to mean that there's less interest in the Core 2010 versions?
One would have reasoned that the i5/i7 versions would have been the more desirable ones...
the 13s are mostly students and low end users. The students will wait to see if there's a back to school like the last couple of years.
the 15 inch and 17 inch are what the professionals and geeks want so they will grab them over the next handful of weeks.
As with all higher end MBP's its the price that isn desirable. People will pay 1200.00 for a notebook but for a 17" with a core i7 to pay 3000.00 with Applecare is insane.
It's only insane if folks won't buy it.
Heck some folks could say that $900 for Photoshop is insane. But all those professionals that have made it the de facto standard in graphics will pay that price so of course Adobe isn't thinking about lowering it.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/...co=MTc0Njg1ODA
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=DKCWFW1&s=dhs
The 13" MBP baseline costs $1199
The 15" Alienware (sorry, no 13" from Alienware) costs $1199
The Alienware has:
-A bigger screen
-A slightly faster HD
The MacBook Pro has:
-An extra Gig of RAM
-A much faster GPU
-Way better battery life
-Aluminum enclosure
-Mac OS X Snow Leopard
-iLife '09
I won't even bother to compare a HP Touchsmart with the new iMacs; they are not only faster and more beautiful/thin, they also have IPS, not to mention are cheaper.
Let's compare the 13" MacBook Pro to an ALIENWARE, shall we?
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/...co=MTc0Njg1ODA
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=DKCWFW1&s=dhs
The 13" MBP baseline costs $1199
The 15" Alienware (sorry, no 13" from Alienware) costs $1199
The Alienware has:
-A bigger screen
-A slightly faster HD
The MacBook Pro has:
-An extra Gig of RAM
-A much faster GPU
-Way better battery life
-Aluminum enclosure
-Mac OS X Snow Leopard
-iLife '09
I won't even bother to compare a HP Touchsmart with the new iMacs; they are not only faster and more beautiful/thin, they also have IPS, not to mention are cheaper.
Thanks!