Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs

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  • Reply 41 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rambo Is Listening View Post




    So take your phone into an Apple store and be a dick. I hope they are dicks right back to you. Get the police in there too, then you can get arrested, spend the night in jail while your car gets towed from the parking lot and then you'll be out a lot more money than your repair would have cost to begin with and you'll still have a liquid damaged phone.



    Grow up.



    Good thing you don't write policy or PR. You're making the lawyers drool. Keep talking - there's gold in your attitude, and it's not for Apple. Good press too.



    Keep it up. I dare you. I DOUBLE DOG dare you!
  • Reply 42 of 176
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    All phone manufacturers use them apart from the cheapest phones where the cost of the sensors is too high e.g. $30 phones.



    Usually they are located in the battery compartment.



    They have been around for at least 10 years.



    Apple is acting no differently to any other phone manufacturer in regard to this issue.



    This will fail.
  • Reply 43 of 176
    virtovirto Posts: 4member
    All of these don't qualify as "scientific," but here are a couple of tests that were conducted in Belgium and Poland, respectively:



    http://translate.google.com/translat...ari%26rls%3Den



    http://translate.google.com/translat...y/&sl=pl&tl=en





    It's worth keeping in mind that it's NOT incumbent upon the consumer to test their iPhones for moisture to get the benefit of the warranty -- or extended warranty -- they paid for when an LSI is triggered. Apple has the right to deny warranty claims if a device is damaged by liquid, just as it has a right to include external sensors to signal a potential problem. But as the party that is relying on the exclusion, APPLE -- not the consumer -- has the duty to prove the existence of damage first.



    Another article worth reading is the experience of a Techgeist reporter: http://techgeist.net/2009/09/apple-i...ors-abusing-2/
  • Reply 44 of 176
    This is a fine story I suppose, but the fact is that every manufacturer does it.

    Every time I call Verizon for a warranty replacement on a user phone, they ask me to check the moisture indicators and remind me that if it gets back to the service center and they're triggered...I'll be billed full price for the replacement.



    This is true no matter what brand of smart phone (we don't have any dumb phones in inventory) I call about; BB, Moto, Palm, etc.
  • Reply 45 of 176
    I have a 2.5 year old alum iMac.

    The HD started to act up. It just wouldn't start, unless I left it completely cool off.

    The screen had the vertical ripples in it.

    And, the mouse scroll wheel was dead for the second time.



    I took it to the Apple Store.

    Where, I bought a 2 TB Western Digital external drive, and did a total Time Machine backup.

    Then,

    Apple took over (after helping me with all that), it took a few hours, and I just walked the mall.



    They replaced my 320GB HD with a new 500 GB, loaded with Snow Leopard. They put in a new LCD screen and glass, and of course, gave me another new mouse.

    Total cost to Applecare = just under $1000.00

    I just bought the external drive, (which I should have anyway).



    I consider myself lucky, ,to have had my data saved, and, yes, I recommend AppleCare.



    Be well...



    Pete
  • Reply 46 of 176
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    (I'd love to see a technical analysis explaining exactly what Apple's sensors are made of and how they work. Are they only triggered by water, so that you could submerge the phone in 100% ethanol and not trigger them? Can they be deactivated with, for example, heat? do they activate only from instantaneous contact with enough liquid to completely cover them or can small amounts -- like humidity, or high humidity, or aerosolized water -- activate them over time?)




    FWIW, I've heard reports of them being activated by being taken out of heavy AC and into a humid outdoors. Or by being used in the gym, while exercising.
  • Reply 47 of 176
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 2,007member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    I've always been a bit skeptical about the moisture sensors, especially the external ones. First, I'm not convinced that something designed to turn color from contact with moisture can't be activated by simply being exposed to normal ambient humidity. Secondly, I question the value of an external moisture sensor, since incidental external contact with a liquid that could trigger such a sensor doesn't necessarily indicate an incident that would in any way affect the operation of the device.



    Well, if other posters are correct in that there are internal sensors as well, I think the value of the external sensors is obvious. If you go in for a repair, and the external sensors are not tripped, the store employees only need about 30 seconds of your time before they can approve a warentee replacement. If the system is rational (as some have suggested and others contested) an external sensor positive would force a more carefull examination of the internals of the device and not lead to an automatic refusal of warentee.



    All I really know is my experience about a month ago. I took my phone in, and because the external sensors were not tripped, the replacement process was lightning quick and I was happy.
  • Reply 48 of 176
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Apple is acting no differently to any other phone manufacturer in regard to this issue.




    People see at least two differences:



    Apple puts the sensors directly adjacent to holes in the case, whereas other companies put them where you said, in the battery compartment.



    Apple is accused of inappropriately denying warranty claims, which is not the case with others.



    The entire accusation is that Apple is NOT acting like the industry norm, or even fairly.
  • Reply 49 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    Apple is notorious for ripping people off with out of warranty repairs, especially logic boards, so them trying to weasel out legitimate warranty claims is not surprising. If your Logic board fails they'll charge you $700-1000 for a part they pay $50 and pay a tech $20 an hour for an hour of work to replace. And they seem to have a high rate of failure judging by forum posts. Look for any post asking if you need AppleCare and you'll see all the veteran Mac owners highly recommending it after all the times they've had their Macs fail.



    I've bought AppleCare for my iMac.



    but NEVER for my iPhone!
  • Reply 50 of 176
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    Well, if other posters are correct in that there are internal sensors as well, I think the value of the external sensors is obvious. If you go in for a repair, and the external sensors are not tripped, the store employees only need about 30 seconds of your time before they can approve a warentee replacement.



    Well, yes, I did mention that further on in my post. I should have been more clear that I was questioning their value as a positive indicator.
  • Reply 51 of 176
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    This was the only time I walked out of a store swearing I would never go back. I had been using some instrument that you blow on the mic on the phone, and well, no warranty. The manager at the store took delight in exxolaining that any moisture was moisture, that it didn't matter.



    A call to apple care the next day took care of it, and I am pretty sure the manager is gone now.



    I am glad to see that someone is making progress on this front.
  • Reply 52 of 176
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post


    The only workmanship flaws they should be concerned with are the ones which aren't making these devices water resistant. You know people are going to drop them and they're going to get wet. It's negligent to put something which so commonly gets dropped or wet out in the market without waterproofing it at least to some degree. This goes for all electronics manufacturers of phones and also applies to things like keyboards and mice which are subject to the same sort of "oops"es that happen to phones



    Perhaps Apple will coddle your inability to manage your portable electronics and offer a waterproof version for say a mere $1k. People spend ten times or more on watches.
  • Reply 53 of 176
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stevie View Post


    People see at least two differences:



    Apple puts the sensors directly adjacent to holes in the case, whereas other companies put them where you said, in the battery compartment.



    Apple is accused of inappropriately denying warranty claims, which is not the case with others.



    The entire accusation is that Apple is NOT acting like the industry norm, or even fairly.



    Excuse me? You want a waterproof product then start a petition. You drop your phone in the toilet it's your problem.
  • Reply 54 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by milkmage View Post


    hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.



    if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.



    I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.



    If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.



    bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.



    if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.



    agree with your comments, If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk. Btw I changed my iPhone 6 times during the warranty period, due faulty batteries twice and to be honest my fault twice, since dropped the iPhone, but it did not cause enough damage to show on indicators, but software went loopy. The other 2 times, we could not work out what was the issue, but syncing was not working. Anyway my point is I know my store manager very well now and we have a laugh and joke about it all the time. He checked the indicators, but always got me a new replacement phone without even a discussion.



    Now I am being offered a 3GS at discount rate to upgrade my phone by store manager, not a routine discount, beleive me.
  • Reply 55 of 176
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by easy288 View Post


    Deny warranty repairs = bigger profits.



    I would like someone to test this indicator in a bathroom after a long hot shower.



    had my 3GS replaced a week ago. i used it while giving my son a bath and with water on my hands and no sensors turned pink or red. i think you have to literally pour water in there or lay it in water to trip it
  • Reply 56 of 176
    I am surrounded by iPhones. I have one here that was dropped in water, just briefly, by a co-worker and sure enough both sensors are red.



    All of the others, even my own that is always in my sweaty pocket, are fine. Not a single sensor tripped, not a little, not at all. I am surprised actually. I expected to see more of them tripped.
  • Reply 57 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post


    If I was your manager and I saw you do something like that I would fire you on the spot.



    If I was your boss, I would reprimand you behind closed doors, for not correcting the action, with retraining to staff for such actions. Firing someone cost more money to get new staff and train.



    Btw Firing someone on spot in store full of customers sends the wrong message
  • Reply 58 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    had my 3GS replaced a week ago. i used it while giving my son a bath and with water on my hands and no sensors turned pink or red. i think you have to literally pour water in there or lay it in water to trip it



    But, but... people on the internet!! They said that just being in an air conditioned room will set it off!!!





    Kind of amuses me, like people have said before, EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
  • Reply 59 of 176
    barthrhbarthrh Posts: 139member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lvsteven View Post


    As for being rude. Don't.

    I took my iMac in and they replaced the logic board for free! It was out of warranty but at one point the extended warranty for iMacs with ati cads applied.

    I argued because the tiger-leopard transition caused the actual problem (mire eye candy means overheating faulty gpu) they needed to fix for free. The genius bar manager agreed.

    I was humble and nice but was armed with knowledge too.



    Apple has great service. People take their phones very seriously though. Maybe more so than other consumer electronics because they use them to communicate so much...



    I have had nothing but great service. My iMac logic board failed outside of Apple Care and the extended warranty. I called and made a case. They agreed to pay for parts ($800) if I paid for labor ($100). They tried two boards and couldn't fix it. They called me and said "We can't repair it. Do you mind if we just give you a new one?". Brand new iMac Alum for a 4 year old iMac. Better yet, they allowed me to count the retail value of my swap as a credit against anything in the store, so I upgraded to the top-of-the-line.



    Second story: I took in a dead Nano. They said the moisture indicator had tripped. It's never been wet, but certainly sweaty. It was dry as a bone sitting on my desk the day (and days before) it failed. In any case, they swapped it.
  • Reply 60 of 176
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    Apple is notorious for ripping people off with out of warranty repairs, especially logic boards, so them trying to weasel out legitimate warranty claims is not surprising. If your Logic board fails they'll charge you $700-1000 for a part they pay $50 and pay a tech $20 an hour for an hour of work to replace. And they seem to have a high rate of failure judging by forum posts. Look for any post asking if you need AppleCare and you'll see all the veteran Mac owners highly recommending it after all the times they've had their Macs fail.



    And they are just as "notorious" for repairing/replacing computers after the warranty has ran out.
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