whats the problem with flash? It might not be perfect, but it's everywhere on the web and i don't see anyone paying royalties to use it?...why not just support it already? It would just make the iphone/ipad a better device...
Do you have a free mind? Yes (in your case not so sure).
Can you chose to not use an Apple device and still live a happy life? Yes
If you don't like the Apple device or the way it is controlled, then I have some simple advice - DON"T BUY AN IPHONE. How hard was that?
You have no RIGHTS to have an Apple device that is designed and made just for you.
You have no RIGHTS to even purchase one, if they don't want to sell you one.
Get a grip and move on.....
What Apple is doing can affect devices I use that are not Apple. If they succeeded in turning everyone against Adobe, and Flash dies all together, where was my choice based on what Apple is going right now. They started with their own users, and now they are expanding in to other peoples business. Apple tries to do things like sue people for using multitouch and then technologies that drive it, when other companies own those technologies and Apple dosn't even pay them for stealing the technology. Cisco owns the name iPhone by the way. Look it up. They turned their nose up to Cisco in the middle of negotiations and just stole it.
I can't read about a single product that is not Apple without someone coming in claiming Apple is better then everything. They tried to delay competetion from releasing products with false lawsuits. You are saying that I can choose something other than Apple and it wont affect me? No I don't have to have an Apple product to be affected by them and the people who respond to Apples beckon. What Apple is doing now could have an effect on the entire world. Apple is over stepping their bounds.
Not true. Apple has been annoying enough lately that I might switch to the Droid next time I upgrade. I'm an adult and I don't need Steve Jobs telling me what apps I can and can not load onto my device, or what apps I can and cannot develop. Apple's approach is good for the timid and the elderly. It's like the Jitterbug of smart phones.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
Apple's not railing against Flash in its entirety. Flash is and will continue to be a rich development and playback environment for Apple notebook and desktop platforms. What it "isn't" going to be is the ideal runtime for mobile environments.
I'm not so sure I can agree with this...
Imagine if you will some new snazzy web property being backed by big named VC firms and lots of rich and interesting content. A web site the likes of which have never been seen before. Now being a fly on the wall at the planning stage of the site... Is anyone going to even dare whisper the words .... 'hey we should use lots of flash it's really cool!'
Now, lets talk about ordinary run of the mill web site that may already use flash, do you think they will continue to utilize and/or implement MORE flash or find as many ways as possible to REDUCE flash?
Finally would you suggest the flash developer market will be expanding or retracting over the next few years?
Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games. That's just the crappy stuff that any idiot could make with Flash. I work for an top notch automaker developing in Flash. You want to know what we use Flash for? We develop interactive training material that shows technicians how cars work and how to fix them. We have been developing an ongoing curriculum for the past five years. We have won numerous awards for our animations, interactivity, and artwork.
[...]
To get the same thing out of objective-c, HTML5, CSS, and/or Javascript would be unfeasible. [...]
Just because you don't know how to do in outside of Flash, doesn't make it unfeasible in another development environment.
On the article, I do find it funny that apple has an issue with a closed platform, the iPhone/iPad API's os's are as closed as you can get, with the approval aspect. I am OK with it, but would not be throwing stones.
You seem a little smarter then they typical users on here, so I will let you in on a secret. That little quote from Steve is what I like to call a profiler post. It can give insight to the people who respond. I would tend to give you a little more credibility based on your post and the caliber of response. Very mature and intelligent aside from calling me a troll, but I won't elaborate any further. Gotta use the Psychology education somehow ;P
Wrong. Steve has railed against Flash on the desktop. Specifically mentioning how Macs often crash when surfing the internet.
That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.
Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.
Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
Obviously, you don't know anything about Android or what Jailbroken means.
No, your Android phone doesn't need to be rooted or jailbroken in order to develop apps. You just change a setting on the phone to allow "apps from Unknown Sources." Then you can install any app whether it's one you develop or one from outside the market.
Jailbroken means that you remove the lock on the wireless carrier that the phone is locked down to. In Apple's case, that's AT&T.
The Nexus One, by the way, is only available through Google, and not through a wireless carrier. But, it currently only works with T-Mobile, which has a limited userbase in the first place. Google hasn't announced the availability of a Verizon version yet, but they promised it would come. So, considering they don't do any advertising and they haven't made it so that you can walk into a Wireless store and walk out with one, Nexus One is doing quite well.
When Adobe conquered Macromedia's Xres and Live Picture it pretty much chilled the market for high end photo creation/manipulation tools.
The only think we have now are smaller apps that can do a subset of Photoshop for a much better price.
I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.
The only people calling it a computer are those criticizing it. It's a media consumption device with a few "computer-like" features built in. If you want an Apple computer that is a computer be prepared to pay $1K.
Well, it is technically a computer. It does have pretty much all hardware and software parts that do make a computer.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon.
I don't think so. I think the Droid can go head-to-head with the iPhone. Its more configurable. Its notification system is better. It's got a physical keyboard. It is more 'internet aware' (i.e. it's better at syncing with the cloud. No need to dock the thing.) There's a lot to like about it. My wife loves her Droid, and scoffs at my wimpy girly iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3
The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I think the thing that hurt the Nexus One had everything to do with its distribution channel and very little to do with the quality of the device. I haven't played with one, but I have heard they are quite good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken).
Not a good analogy. By default Droid phones only let you install apps from the market, but if you want to side-load other apps, all you need to do is confirm the "Are you sure you want to do this?" dialog. Google supports side-loading apps, they just want to make sure you know what you're doing. There's a big difference between this and Apple's actively hostile attitude towards jailbreaking.
They also work with Flash, and have no issue with developers using whatever tools they deem appropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3
From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.
My point? You have no idea what you are missing. But I guess it doesn't matter does it. If you don't know what your missing, then you don't miss it do you?!
Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.
Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.
I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.
Your post is amazingly devoid of outstanding options in software. Pray tell what Photoshop competitors should I be looking for on a PC.
As always the PC market will have more software but a large portion of said software will be utter crap and would not cut muster in the Mac market where even shadetree developers are expected to deliver functional products in performance and UI.
[QUOTE=graxspoo;1617642]I don't think so. I think the Droid can go head-to-head with the iPhone. Its more configurable. Its notification system is better. It's got a physical keyboard. It is more 'internet aware' (i.e. it's better at syncing with the cloud. No need to dock the thing.) There's a lot to like about it. My wife loves her Droid, and scoffs at my wimpy girly iPhone.
Don't forget the droid has better hardware! I love my WM6 phone, but when I upgrade again, I am going to droid. Microsoft is even jumping on the band wagon and locking things down, so I have to abandon them. I love what they are doing with the new phones, the WP7 phones will be amazing and possibly superior to the iPhone based on the leaked specs, but in the end I don't need someone looming overhead ready to tell me what I can and can't do.
That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.
Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.
Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.
Except now, advertisers have to advertise through iAd. How is that good for advertisers?
Just out of curiosity, maybe an Apple User could go to http://labs.adobe.com and download the release candidate for Flash 10.1 to see if the new version of Flash will have resolved the crashing issues... I don't doubt that after Apple jabbed at Adobe, that it may have gotten their attention. Though, I doubt that would be enough to satisfy Apple users.
Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose. With Apple's devices in a controlled jail, they control content. Then control what you have have to consume content. They control how you will consume that content.
Wrong - You still have the right to not buy an Apple device. And why should Apple not be allowed to cotrol the content of their devices? That's like saying Ford should be forced to sell you a new Focus with a Dodge Nitro engine in it if that's what you wanted.
I for one am glad that Apple has "stuck to their guns" and remained exclusive. That's the main reason their computers keep running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and..............for years. That is something a MicroSuck based machine will never do as long a you can put any p.o.s. software on it that you want to.
We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.
Good
Those developers who are not focused on their craft and a bit renegade need to look elsewhere for a platform. Funny how many "potential" developers suddenly think they're the Gordon Gekko of mobile application development. Newsflash there are almost 200k apps on the app store. The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed.
Comments
whats the problem with flash? It might not be perfect, but it's everywhere on the web and i don't see anyone paying royalties to use it?...why not just support it already? It would just make the iphone/ipad a better device...
Adobe is lazy. Isn't that a good enough reason?
Adobe "is doomed"
Apple are NOT walking on YOUR rights.
Are you forced to buy an iPhone? No.
Are there other smart phones on the market? Yes
Can you buy them? Yes
Do you have a free mind? Yes (in your case not so sure).
Can you chose to not use an Apple device and still live a happy life? Yes
If you don't like the Apple device or the way it is controlled, then I have some simple advice - DON"T BUY AN IPHONE. How hard was that?
You have no RIGHTS to have an Apple device that is designed and made just for you.
You have no RIGHTS to even purchase one, if they don't want to sell you one.
Get a grip and move on.....
What Apple is doing can affect devices I use that are not Apple. If they succeeded in turning everyone against Adobe, and Flash dies all together, where was my choice based on what Apple is going right now. They started with their own users, and now they are expanding in to other peoples business. Apple tries to do things like sue people for using multitouch and then technologies that drive it, when other companies own those technologies and Apple dosn't even pay them for stealing the technology. Cisco owns the name iPhone by the way. Look it up. They turned their nose up to Cisco in the middle of negotiations and just stole it.
I can't read about a single product that is not Apple without someone coming in claiming Apple is better then everything. They tried to delay competetion from releasing products with false lawsuits. You are saying that I can choose something other than Apple and it wont affect me? No I don't have to have an Apple product to be affected by them and the people who respond to Apples beckon. What Apple is doing now could have an effect on the entire world. Apple is over stepping their bounds.
You seem to want to be right very badly. Okay, you're right. Now go away.
Not true. Apple has been annoying enough lately that I might switch to the Droid next time I upgrade. I'm an adult and I don't need Steve Jobs telling me what apps I can and can not load onto my device, or what apps I can and cannot develop. Apple's approach is good for the timid and the elderly. It's like the Jitterbug of smart phones.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
Apple's not railing against Flash in its entirety. Flash is and will continue to be a rich development and playback environment for Apple notebook and desktop platforms. What it "isn't" going to be is the ideal runtime for mobile environments.
I'm not so sure I can agree with this...
Imagine if you will some new snazzy web property being backed by big named VC firms and lots of rich and interesting content. A web site the likes of which have never been seen before. Now being a fly on the wall at the planning stage of the site... Is anyone going to even dare whisper the words .... 'hey we should use lots of flash it's really cool!'
Now, lets talk about ordinary run of the mill web site that may already use flash, do you think they will continue to utilize and/or implement MORE flash or find as many ways as possible to REDUCE flash?
Finally would you suggest the flash developer market will be expanding or retracting over the next few years?
Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games. That's just the crappy stuff that any idiot could make with Flash. I work for an top notch automaker developing in Flash. You want to know what we use Flash for? We develop interactive training material that shows technicians how cars work and how to fix them. We have been developing an ongoing curriculum for the past five years. We have won numerous awards for our animations, interactivity, and artwork.
[...]
To get the same thing out of objective-c, HTML5, CSS, and/or Javascript would be unfeasible. [...]
Just because you don't know how to do in outside of Flash, doesn't make it unfeasible in another development environment.
Not feeding this troll would be a good thing.
On the article, I do find it funny that apple has an issue with a closed platform, the iPhone/iPad API's os's are as closed as you can get, with the approval aspect. I am OK with it, but would not be throwing stones.
You seem a little smarter then they typical users on here, so I will let you in on a secret. That little quote from Steve is what I like to call a profiler post. It can give insight to the people who respond. I would tend to give you a little more credibility based on your post and the caliber of response. Very mature and intelligent aside from calling me a troll, but I won't elaborate any further. Gotta use the Psychology education somehow ;P
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products
Android has a walled garden? Force users to use their products?
Do you have examples?
Wrong. Steve has railed against Flash on the desktop. Specifically mentioning how Macs often crash when surfing the internet.
That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.
Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.
Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
Obviously, you don't know anything about Android or what Jailbroken means.
No, your Android phone doesn't need to be rooted or jailbroken in order to develop apps. You just change a setting on the phone to allow "apps from Unknown Sources." Then you can install any app whether it's one you develop or one from outside the market.
Jailbroken means that you remove the lock on the wireless carrier that the phone is locked down to. In Apple's case, that's AT&T.
The Nexus One, by the way, is only available through Google, and not through a wireless carrier. But, it currently only works with T-Mobile, which has a limited userbase in the first place. Google hasn't announced the availability of a Verizon version yet, but they promised it would come. So, considering they don't do any advertising and they haven't made it so that you can walk into a Wireless store and walk out with one, Nexus One is doing quite well.
So, stop spreading around lies.
Hell on a PC your choices are extremely limited.
When Adobe conquered Macromedia's Xres and Live Picture it pretty much chilled the market for high end photo creation/manipulation tools.
The only think we have now are smaller apps that can do a subset of Photoshop for a much better price.
I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.
The only people calling it a computer are those criticizing it. It's a media consumption device with a few "computer-like" features built in. If you want an Apple computer that is a computer be prepared to pay $1K.
Well, it is technically a computer. It does have pretty much all hardware and software parts that do make a computer.
You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon.
I don't think so. I think the Droid can go head-to-head with the iPhone. Its more configurable. Its notification system is better. It's got a physical keyboard. It is more 'internet aware' (i.e. it's better at syncing with the cloud. No need to dock the thing.) There's a lot to like about it. My wife loves her Droid, and scoffs at my wimpy girly iPhone.
The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.
I think the thing that hurt the Nexus One had everything to do with its distribution channel and very little to do with the quality of the device. I haven't played with one, but I have heard they are quite good.
I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken).
Not a good analogy. By default Droid phones only let you install apps from the market, but if you want to side-load other apps, all you need to do is confirm the "Are you sure you want to do this?" dialog. Google supports side-loading apps, they just want to make sure you know what you're doing. There's a big difference between this and Apple's actively hostile attitude towards jailbreaking.
They also work with Flash, and have no issue with developers using whatever tools they deem appropriate.
From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.
Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.
Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.
Good luck with that position.[/QUOTE]
iPhone os (Flash free iPhone + iPod touch + iPad +...)
Consumer satisfaction: sky high
Market penetration: going viral
Competition: copycat galore
Don't need no luck, ...make my own!
I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.
Your post is amazingly devoid of outstanding options in software. Pray tell what Photoshop competitors should I be looking for on a PC.
As always the PC market will have more software but a large portion of said software will be utter crap and would not cut muster in the Mac market where even shadetree developers are expected to deliver functional products in performance and UI.
Don't forget the droid has better hardware! I love my WM6 phone, but when I upgrade again, I am going to droid. Microsoft is even jumping on the band wagon and locking things down, so I have to abandon them. I love what they are doing with the new phones, the WP7 phones will be amazing and possibly superior to the iPhone based on the leaked specs, but in the end I don't need someone looming overhead ready to tell me what I can and can't do.
That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.
Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.
Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.
Except now, advertisers have to advertise through iAd. How is that good for advertisers?
Just out of curiosity, maybe an Apple User could go to http://labs.adobe.com and download the release candidate for Flash 10.1 to see if the new version of Flash will have resolved the crashing issues... I don't doubt that after Apple jabbed at Adobe, that it may have gotten their attention. Though, I doubt that would be enough to satisfy Apple users.
Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose. With Apple's devices in a controlled jail, they control content. Then control what you have have to consume content. They control how you will consume that content.
Wrong - You still have the right to not buy an Apple device. And why should Apple not be allowed to cotrol the content of their devices? That's like saying Ford should be forced to sell you a new Focus with a Dodge Nitro engine in it if that's what you wanted.
I for one am glad that Apple has "stuck to their guns" and remained exclusive. That's the main reason their computers keep running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and..............for years. That is something a MicroSuck based machine will never do as long a you can put any p.o.s. software on it that you want to.
We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.
Good
Those developers who are not focused on their craft and a bit renegade need to look elsewhere for a platform. Funny how many "potential" developers suddenly think they're the Gordon Gekko of mobile application development. Newsflash there are almost 200k apps on the app store. The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed.