Apple strikes back at Adobe, says Flash is 'closed and proprietary'

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  • Reply 181 of 281
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by druble View Post


    The resources and processing power needed for media creation (At least business grade) is well beyond the abilities of the current iPad. You could be right about 2013. Technology changes at a rapid pace, and in 3 years. mobile technology should be catching up to what desktop technology is now. So I would have to say that by then, you could be right. Some competitors like HP though are already ahead of the game developing a product with a full OS on it. Other manufactures developing similar devices will also go the full OS route. This will trigger hardware developers to increase efforts on mobile technologies that drive slate devices and netbooks. It is already possible to get netbooks with power equal to entry level gaming machines, and the slates with tegra 2 processors that are coming out very quickly will already be powerful enough for the likes of Photoshop or CAD. It's going to get interesting.



    Yeah. HP Slate reference right? Running Win7 , "which has the touch interface". Yep saw demo's of that. Not the best implementation of touch I've ever seen but hey - it's a great effort for a full desktop OS crammed into a simple tablet form factor. which also means that unless HP comes up with an uber battery it will barely see half of the iPad battery charge life. Tegra 2 processors? You mean the ones with such bad stability issues that they have been delayed in production and are pushing back the first wave of 2010 tablets until nearly 3Q? And yeah running all those full OS apps in a virtual keyboarded interface is going to go swimmingly - I'm just sure of it. Fortunately I'm betting Intel rushes to build more power into it's Atom lineup to give the full Win7 OS install the power it needs to deliver for the user. Hope they do the same for the battery technology which will be needed to run that more than 2.5 hours at a time.
  • Reply 182 of 281
    esummersesummers Posts: 953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr_Wizard View Post


    I find that a very funny statement coming from Apple. Didn’t they just squelch a company for selling hardware with Apple OS on them. They also have no open market for software developers within the IPhone only what they approve of. Pot calling the Kettle black I would say...



    The difference is Apple dictates full control over their platforms. Adobe tries to dictate full control over other peoples platforms. Apple follows open standards for the web because it is not their platform. I think the bigger reason is just that Flash is old technology. Apple is a very forward looking company, they like to be at the next step before everyone else. I also thing that they don't believe in web plugins in general. They put up with them on OS X, but I'm sure they would like to get rid of anything that can render to a web page.
  • Reply 183 of 281
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    No...Adobe needs to offer a pound of flesh at this point. Outside of the publishing industry their reputation amongst Mac users is poor. Much like Microsoft, many Mac users today are actively looking to rid themselves of Adobe software.



    I'm going with Aperture as soon as I get my Canon DSLR. Probably would never need Photoshop for my basic needs.



    Flash is undoubtedly cool for some needs but the neglect that Adobe offered to Mac users isn't something that's going to be forgotten anytime soon.



    what do you mean by 'outside the publishing industry'? that's where the most frustration is among mac users who have to put up with adobe's neglect all day long. you don't know pain until you have slowly watched your favourite software degrade into a buggy, bloated mess over the years.
  • Reply 184 of 281
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    What an idiot. He should have just kept his mouth shut. Apple have no credibility on this issue any more.



    Adobe were moving away from their proprietary plug-in and toward natively supporting the iPhone whilst leveraging their IDE and the experience of Flash developers. Next step was the support of a HTML5 export from the Flash IDE.



    Apple blocked it because they know being a bunch of aggressive tools won't affect their bottom line as long as they keep on top of the competition.



    It reminds me of Microsoft in the 90's.
  • Reply 185 of 281
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by druble View Post


    "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk" - Steve Jobs



    Price of an iPad - $499



    Puhleeze. iPad is not a computer. Jobs was speaking of a computer with a keyboard, hard disk, USB, etc. ala "netbook". Rather than try to build some cheap netbook, Apple defined a new space where a high quality device could play at a low price point. Have you seen a teardown of the iPad? There is no dispute about the build quality of Apple's products, it's unparalleled by any manufacturer in the field.



    If you want a sub-$500 piece of junk, Apple is clearly not your brand. Apple is to Audi as Dell is to Ford.
  • Reply 186 of 281
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, there is Corel... sort of...



    that actually made me laugh. thank you!
  • Reply 187 of 281
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Not to mention that the whole purpose of Android is to allow Google to collect personally identifiable information on users.



    people tend to forget that, don't they?

    they call apple 'big brother' while they're being monitored by an advertising company...
  • Reply 188 of 281
    gwklamgwklam Posts: 17member
    i wanna ask, why is there such a flash big CPU usage on safari mac and normal CPU usage on firefox mac
  • Reply 189 of 281
    cdong4cdong4 Posts: 194member
    Where are you getting this statistic from. It performs better in Safari over Firefox in Mac OS X.... other way around on Windows.
  • Reply 190 of 281
    petermacpetermac Posts: 115member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    OTOH, this could be a tactic Apple is pulling to devalue Adobe to the point where it becomes a nice takeover target.



    Yes, I had thought of this as well. It's a pity then that Adobe didn't do a complete "dummy spit" and yank support for all their Mac based products. That would have played directly into Apples open arms, by rapidly sinking share price, when half of their revenue dried up immediately.



    Apple would have said, hmmm, "Adobe for $8B -$10B, well have that", and pick it like a plum.



    Bt then, what do I know, ever since Apple Computer became Apple Inc and a CE company, I've always thought 51% of Sony would be a good pickup too. It would have only cost them about $25B. Sony with Apple software all over their products, now there is another, hmmmm!



    Cheers
  • Reply 191 of 281
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I totally agree on the "try before you buy" Lite versions help but are not always offered. I think the whole 80/20 rule here applies (groan) 80 % of any store is going to be blah. I'm always looking for that cream. The top 20% that are worth the money.



    I'd also like having an App Store Marketplace. Say I buy Omnifocus and find that it's just not working for me. I'd love to be able to transfer my license via iTunes to another user for store credit. We're talking about digital data here which almost by definition is portable. I don't think users should have to pour money into apps that become essentially worthless because there's no way to transfer them without exposing your Apple ID and Password.



    There are many many many improvements that need to happen to online stores sooner rather than later. We are simply not leveraging digital data in a manner that's beneficial for developers and end users IMO.



    The AppStore Marketplace is an awesome idea!
  • Reply 192 of 281
    frogbatfrogbat Posts: 69member
    as a web developer i had a love hate relationship with flash -



    it's pro's were many - large movies and animations and custom interfaces could be built quickly and streamed at a decent pace on the internet. Also, flash was more wysiwyg than html and css.



    Also, it also offered a better cross platform experience for developers in the sense that when i designed a flash site it would look the same irrespective of browser or platform



    superflous use of flash annoyed me and still does - clients still request flash anim intros... nevermind music in websites *groan*



    ---



    now that i don't do much web work anymore i can truly say i loath the flash experience on my mac. Apple's latest updates to safari have been created to isolate the bugs that crash the browser and it's always flash that causes the problems. I don't care to wait for a flash site to load in spite of the faster connections. the truth is that flash on a mac and on a pc are not the same experience. For all progress adobe has made in increased performance, it still lags behind and it appears to have become more unstable with every new iteration.
  • Reply 193 of 281
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by druble View Post


    "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk" - Steve Jobs



    Price of an iPad - $499



    But the iPad is not a piece of junk. So you are not really saying anything.
  • Reply 194 of 281
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    Midi wasn't proposed until 1981 (Dave Smith of Sequential Circuits). The first keyboards with MIDI were introduced at Winter NAMM 1983, followed by the Yamaha DX7, which had a very basic and poor MIDI implementation. I'd be curious to know what was a pre-1983 MIDI interface as I can't find evidence of any public use prior to Bob Moog hooking one of his synths to a Prophet 600.



    Yes the use of Firewire is limited today. There are still a large number of musicians who prefer Firewire over USB (even USB2) due to the way it operates, particularly that it has less latency. Of course MIDI is a niche market, it was developed entirely for electronic keyboard/synth instruments. It is highly important in its own area tho.



    Why is firewire limited in use today?
  • Reply 195 of 281
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Very Tiny Violin for Adobe.



    My heart bleeds for them. Really.



    Rip off prices for the CS5 Suite for verrrrrrrrry little new stuff.



    Flash. Slow. Buggy. Insecure. They can't even release the software they're criticising Apple for not supporting.



    Trudy is quite correct. Apple supports open source tech'.



    It IS Adobe that is proprietary. Flash is old. News. Bye.



    I hope Apple plop the iphone on Verizon. Then android is dead meat.



    Google. They're the microsoft of their day. Crapy 'lego brick' windows style interfaces. All tech and no heart.



    Good on Apple's P.R. Adobe has been shooting their mouth off a plenty. 'bout time someone shut them up and gave them a fat lip.



    Guess that person...had to be Apple.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Nice to hear your voice on these pages 'o apple warrior !!





    Adobe has all the chances to be ONE OF top contenders like aapl msft goog. But its code is so 1990's bloated . ADODE is still a fine company . it simply has too find a way to add value to APPLE and its clients .ITS APPLES BALLGAME ...APPE EVEN OWNS THE BALL AND THE STADIUM AND THE AIR RIGHTS ABOVE .ADODE can score millions in sales if it simply worked with apple and lost its ego . STEVES EGO is enough for one solar system as it is ,,



    peace



    9
  • Reply 196 of 281
    Why hit back saying Flash is a closed system when the iPhone is to, its just pointless.



    To anyone actually developing content there's no difference to developing for Flash and developing in HTML5. The actual developer can't control either one irrespective of if one's open source or not. In both instances you can use multiple development tools so to a developer there really is no difference.



    Developing for the iPhone as we now know really is a completely closed system with contracts to say you have to write code in Apple program and also no ports allowed. Then sign a contract to sell your app through apple and leave it up to them if it actually makes it onto the store or not. Everything about its closed in ways that actually affect developers.



    Who really cares that HTML5 is open source apart from the people involved in it?
  • Reply 197 of 281
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by druble View Post


    I truly hope that this is not the case....Either companies will have to develop for all the possibilities, or some of us just won't get to see websites in their full glory anymore. Flash bridges so many gaps between browser compatability it's not even funny, but if Steve dosn't like it, I guess we can reset ourselves to the 90's again. With all the different browsers now days, it will take quite a bit of coding to compensate for the differences between browsers. Anyone who has wrote W3C compliant sites knows all about how different browsers display things differently. At least with flash, you could expect the same results from browser to browser.



    flash is fantastic

    the flash movie player for ABC and HULU are TOP of the line viewing .. extremely close to BD quality .

    SADly flash is also the banner ad of choice

    so every f ing time i surf flash ads cripple my slower macs />>>/UNTIL I INSTALLED CLICK TO FLASH !!!!!

    ANYWAY

    >> steve told ADODE to move on to HTML5 faster rather than later . THE world has waited 5 yrs now .

    SO apple with its tiny screens and the need for low power and long battery charges has to kill flash and use a fast stream line way to sell its wonderful devices .

    I saw the ipad on the subway and it was fucking screaming fast and cool and wonderful and its TIMES pages looked great and the guy who owned IT had a subway car full of people fighting hard not too stare /

    Soon we will see many more ipads on the subway

    and all the flash less devices will increase

    And aperture will get better and better



    and adode will choose to serve its master or move aside to backwater mode



    HTML5 IS 100 PERCENT OPEN SOUTSE CODE

    FLASH IS PAY AS YOU GO CLOSED FAT BLOATED SW



    apple wins again
  • Reply 198 of 281
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    Why hit back saying Flash is a closed system when the iPhone is to, its just pointless.



    To anyone actually developing content there's no difference to developing for Flash and developing in HTML5. The actual developer can't control either one irrespective of if one's open source or not. In both instances you can use multiple development tools so to a developer there really is no difference.



    Developing for the iPhone as we now know really is a completely closed system with contracts to say you have to write code in Apple program and also no ports allowed. Then sign a contract to sell your app through apple and leave it up to them if it actually makes it onto the store or not. Everything about its closed in ways that actually affect developers.



    Who really cares that HTML5 is open source apart from the people involved in it?



    flash is code

    iphone is hard ware

    HTML5 is the world wide hand shake that allows info to move freely between devices and worlds.



    no one forces you join apple's love train

    go buy the zune palm pre android dell hp acer whatever and enjoy monster cpu's that can barley keep up with the over loaded flash garbage ads .



    APPLE HAS 350000 non flash apps and counting . versus under 20000 flash apps world wide combined for the rest of the field .



    duh





    peace





    9
  • Reply 199 of 281
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    Why hit back saying Flash is a closed system when the iPhone is to, its just pointless.



    To anyone actually developing content there's no difference to developing for Flash and developing in HTML5. The actual developer can't control either one irrespective of if one's open source or not. In both instances you can use multiple development tools so to a developer there really is no difference.



    Developing for the iPhone as we now know really is a completely closed system with contracts to say you have to write code in Apple program and also no ports allowed. Then sign a contract to sell your app through apple and leave it up to them if it actually makes it onto the store or not. Everything about its closed in ways that actually affect developers.



    Who really cares that HTML5 is open source apart from the people involved in it?



    I think there's a bit of confusion here.



    If you are developing in HTML5 for the iPhone -- i.e., Web Apps -- you don't have to sign any contracts with Apple or have their approval for anything, and you can optimize your website for any platform or browser you wish.



    If you are developing native iPhone apps using Cocoa Touch, then the restrictions you mention apply, but they have nothing to do with Flash/HTML5.



    So, I don't see how the 3rd paragraph in your post has anything to do with the topic, or the rest of your post.



    I will also point out that this issue really has little or nothing to do with developers, their preferences, or their comfort zone. It's about 2 things: the user experience and reaching eyeballs/wallets. In other words, the WWW, the iPhone, the Mac, even Windows, aren't there to serve developers. Developers are there to serve these ends. So, what you are comfortable or enjoy working in is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is, does the work you do add or detract from the user experience and does it allow content providers to reach eyeballs and wallets?
  • Reply 200 of 281
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Sorry, that doesn't prove your point at all. It does prove that Flash performance sucks on Macs, but it doesn't prove they don't have access to APIs required to make it not suck. Just because they don't have access to the ones they say they want doesn't mean they don't have access to the ones that would do the job for them if they only used them.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post


    Yeah right. Whatever you say.



    Yeah, I guess from your side of the discussion, there's really nothing left to say.



    But, just in case anyone was wondering, this is exactly what SJ is talking about when he says Adobe is lazy. They want Apple to give them unfettered access to the hardware so they can take their Windows code and get it running on the Mac with as few changes as possible. They don't care that this could destabilize the OS or display subsystems -- i.e., they don't care that this might compromise the user experience -- all they care about is keeping their Flash empire alive with the minimal effort. So, the fact that Adobe is lazy and won't bother to rewrite Flash on the Mac using the more than adequate APIs provided, is exactly the sort of thing that SJ referred to as having been through before.



    Adobe's behavior around Flash on the Mac is exactly the reason they are being kept off the iPhone. They can whine all they want about how it's unfair and that Apple is being mean to them, but everything that's happened is a consequence of their own actions, which they won't accept responsibility for. Typical alcoholic behavior from a company addicted to money for nothing.
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