It's also suspicious that the guy went *straight* to Cydia the next day. Almost as if the rejection was expected and the application to the app store just done for cred or for publicity.
when i first read about the app being submitted for approval, i thought the developer was announcing it, because he expected it to be rejected. i fully expected he was going to be another developer using outrage over his rejection as a marketing gimmick.
I can understand Apple rejecting this app, especially if they have plans to implement their own wireless syncing. If that's the case, then it would suck for Apple to allow this app to be purchased only to then have it be built in to the OS for free later. There are also issues of support, security, etc...
For those wondering about why we would want wireless syncing...
I rarely have a need to plug my iPhone into my computer (other than to sync). I have an alarm clock, a stereo, a car dock and a dock for my boat stereo. My iPhone is constantly being charged.
Often times, I just want to add one song or a few pictures to my iPhone and it just seems unnecessary to stop my iPhone, unplug it, find the cable for my computer, plug it in, sync, and then reverse the steps to get it back to the device it was playing on.
Likewise, it would be nice to have automated/scheduled syncing. Last night, I had several videos being transcoded for my iPhone. It would've been nice to have been able to have scheduled iTunes to sync wirelessly at 4am so it would be ready to go (along with my podcasts as well), but this wasn't possible since my iPhone was in my alarm clock. So after waking up, I had to plug it into my computer and wait for it to sync...thus taking up far more of my time than had I been able to sync wirelessly.
Does this app prevent users from doing system updates wirelessly (I suspect not)
Does it check the battery level beforehand to ensure it won't die mid-sync? (I suspect not)
Does it access the filesystem in some way that doesn't violate guidelines (I suspect not)
Can the developer submit any evidence that this discussion took place like an e-mail from Apple? (I suspect not).
These kinds of stories always get the trolls excited because they are ALWAYS one sided. Once in a very rare blue moon, Apple might comment on some high profile app like Skype, but those are exceedingly rare. In this case, we just have the word of some pissed of developer with a seemingly poor implementation.
Would wireless sync be nice? Somewhat. I could see syncing calendar info, and possibly app purchases, assuming they could do so securely, and I'm not talking only about user security but also about app security in regards to pirating and whatnot).
Will I get all weepy that I don't have to plug a cable in? Hardly.
This is why jailbreaking is the only way to have a iPhone.
it's not. you can have an iphone that is not jailbroken and be happy as a clam.
what dismays me about this is that this gentlemen doesn't seem to have tried to deal with the security issue etc. he comes off like "okay screw you Apple, i'll just go to Cydia" instead of wanting to do a little more work.
Jailbreaking can also cause issues and voids one's warranty. Even if you restore the phone without the break, if it comes up that you ever did break it, Apple can refuse to provide any service per the TC of the warranty. Even to the point perhaps of putting a note on your phone's serial number in case you try to go to another store etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixmdude
Even if I rented a laptop, I'd still have the freedom to put software on it.
not true. As the actual owner of said laptop, I can place any conditions I want on the rental of said unit. If you complete the rental you have agreed to the conditions and can be penalized for violation as a breach of contract. So if I say that you can not install your own software you can't. If I say that you will have to pay a $500 fine for install your own software and you refuse to pay it, I can take you to court. If I pull out a signed contract that spells out these items and clearly shows your signature, the court is more likely to side with me.
Also, when you buy a computer, phone etc. it was made with a particular OS. You know this when you buy it. So you buy it knowing that not all software will work by virtue of technology. I buy a Mac and I know (unless I'm a total moron) that my copy of Office for Windows won't work.
The only difference with the iphone is the issue of whether, all else being equal tech wise, Apple has the legal right to say their store or no. At this point, the courts haven't refuted that right. So until someone turns it into a court case and Apple gets slapped down and told they can't restrict apps so long as the language etc is correct, they can and will continue on their way
It's not useless. It's just useless to cry over it.
Exactly. Every time something like this comes up we get this moaning and groaning reaction. Ground Hog Day here on AI. People need to just consider what they want, and get that. If you don't like the features and usefulness of <fill in name of Apple Inc. product>, then find and buy another product that you find more suited. Countless analogies have been given here to illustrate that Apple designs and sells products and services to match their plans, they don't custom create products to the specific desires of each of us. People who post here that they have decided to not buy something from Apple, and instead have purchased and are using another device seem to be behaving sensibly to me. (As long as they don't keep repeating it!)
You can put what you like on your iPhone, Apple are not stopping you.
Apple are just refusing to put software in THIER store (not your store).
There are many alternative phones out there, you are free to choose.
Just as Apple don't have to PCs or Windows in their Retail Stores, they don't have to sell software they don't like in the App Store. How simple is that?
Huh? Apple <is> not stopping you? They attempt to control what you can install and run with nearly every OS update. Thus newer version of jailbreaking software in a constant back and forth. Where have you been? It's very simple.
Why are people suddenly so concerned that security is an issue here? Do you worry when you're writing confidential emails over wifi? Wifi transfers can easily be secure, that's a fact.
I have always been concerned with security, where warranted. I have banking and credit card information on my devices. As well as apps in development which contain proprietary data.
As I explained, in my post, I don't want these transmitted over WiFi if doing so will allow them to be compromised.
I don't send confidential emails over unsecured WiFi. My routers are secure. When at insecure WiFi locations I don't send sensitive data in the clear!
However, as i look at the neighbors WiFi connections available to me, several are insecure... not everyone knows or cares about the risk!
So, a user who doesn't understand the risk, buys a WiFi synch app from the Apple's app store. He installs it on his unsecured network, and suddenly his credit cards and contact info (with personal comments) are all over town.
Who's he gonna' blame (sue)... Poor Joe Developer... or Deep Pockets Apple?
When you own a store there is an implied guarantee that you will not sell products that you know can be harmful, without proper warning... it is unethical, and may also be illegal!
I don't understand how he managed to such an app without breaking any rules.
There's no porn, no copyright or trademark issues. it's not just calling web based content, doesn't use any private APIs, is totally written in native code (which technically doesn't kick in until 4.0 is live). it isn't app spam etc.
Exactly. Every time something like this comes up we get this moaning and groaning reaction. Ground Hog Day here on AI. People need to just consider what they want, and get that. If you don't like the features and usefulness of <fill in name of Apple Inc. product>, then find and buy another product that you find more suited. Countless analogies have been given here to illustrate that Apple designs and sells products and services to match their plans, they don't custom create products to the specific desires of each of us. People who post here that they have decided to not buy something from Apple, and instead have purchased and are using another device seem to be behaving sensibly to me. (As long as they don't keep repeating it!)
Gee, wasn't that long ago Apple fans were derisively fighting off nearly identical defenses of Microsoft. I'm amazed how many people continue to give Apple a pass for things that were "bad" when Microsoft was involved.
I don't know about that. One post here the other day had one douchebag posting approximately 40 times (1/10th of the thread), and I don't believe that is an exaggeration, but I lost count a couple of times ? and all he was doing was alternating between trollbaiting and defending himself against because accused of trolling.
Stop feeding the trolls, people. For the love of Jobs.
when i first read about the app being submitted for approval, i thought the developer was announcing it, because he expected it to be rejected. i fully expected he was going to be another developer using outrage over his rejection as a marketing gimmick.
Gee, wasn't that long ago Apple fans were derisively fighting off nearly identical defenses of Microsoft. I'm amazed how many people continue to give Apple a pass for things that were "bad" when Microsoft was involved.
I guess. It wasn't me, I could care less what Microsoft does.
you know, the Kindle allows you to sync and use thier device without the need of a computer, so why not the iPhone or iPad? My guess is they're working on it. But, it seems like Apple would gain a HUGE portion of the market if they allowed the iPhone, iPad and iPod touches the ability to sync without a computer.
One of the Pluses for Nook and Kindle users is:
1. syncing without a computer
2. a battery that lasts a week without a charge.
I know this is a posting for the iPhone, but it opens up the discussion for all thier mobile devices.
Syncing over 802.11g would suck. If you have a lot of apps/songs, and your backing up your phone, USB 2.0 already takes interminably long. So, wireless syncing is really only practical for iPhone GS, and hopefully, the new iPhone 4.0. It also occurs to me that when Apple rejects an app in circumstances like this, it is often because the app is stomping on a feature that Apple is getting ready to release. I'm looking forward to finding out!
You can put what you like on your iPhone, Apple are not stopping you.
Apple are just refusing to put software in THIER (sic) store (not your store).
The latter leads to the former by definition. For you to separate the two is semantics, not reality. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
It's also a disingenuous argument because you and everyone else knows that Apple rejecting an app is basically a death knell for the app. Since only a small % of users jailbreak (and Apple does everything they can to thwart jailbreaking with each firmware update), no developer can effectively make a living selling through Cydia instead of the App Store. Stop pretending that your technicality somehow obviates the truth.
There's no porn, no copyright or trademark issues. it's not just calling web based content, doesn't use any private APIs, is totally written in native code (which technically doesn't kick in until 4.0 is live). it isn't app spam etc.
How does he turn off backup?
How does he allow the backup to take place?
Does he perform the backup?
Isn't that a "system" function of the OS the Device and iTunes?
If it is, are there public APIs that provide access to backup?
Can he disable other functions during backup to prevent corruption?
Can he assure that the backup is reliable?
How?
Some, but not all files that get synched, are accessible on the device through public APIs, how does he handle any that are not?
Can he assure that the files and their metadata are synched without data loss or corruption.
Without satisfactory answers to all of the above, would you accept it if you were Apple?
Another potential problem that would end up falling on Apple's shoulders. Users turn off backups, never do one again, have a problem with their iPhone, can't restore it properly, Angry phone calls to Apple support ensue...
I already addressed that, your scenario assumes that the user never does a wired sync ever again. Even one wired sync a week would be plenty. Much of the important data is synced anyway.
Syncing in general is going to be out, long before WiFi syncing becomes a useable standard feature. There won't be any point in syncing your music or video when your portable can stream them, gapless and seamless, and in full quality, over the air, just as if they were local on the device. This, isn't far off at all, and is much easier to accomplish than actually transferring (copying) the files.
You see this over ATT's network in the near future (as you say it is not that far off)? You really are an optimist considering I got video about 25% of the time on the CBS NCAA app. When I got video most of the time it was highly pixelated and jerky.
But, right around the corner I am going to get "gapless, seemless, and in full quality, over the air" movies?
Comments
It's also suspicious that the guy went *straight* to Cydia the next day. Almost as if the rejection was expected and the application to the app store just done for cred or for publicity.
when i first read about the app being submitted for approval, i thought the developer was announcing it, because he expected it to be rejected. i fully expected he was going to be another developer using outrage over his rejection as a marketing gimmick.
maybe i'm just too cynical...
For those wondering about why we would want wireless syncing...
I rarely have a need to plug my iPhone into my computer (other than to sync). I have an alarm clock, a stereo, a car dock and a dock for my boat stereo. My iPhone is constantly being charged.
Often times, I just want to add one song or a few pictures to my iPhone and it just seems unnecessary to stop my iPhone, unplug it, find the cable for my computer, plug it in, sync, and then reverse the steps to get it back to the device it was playing on.
Likewise, it would be nice to have automated/scheduled syncing. Last night, I had several videos being transcoded for my iPhone. It would've been nice to have been able to have scheduled iTunes to sync wirelessly at 4am so it would be ready to go (along with my podcasts as well), but this wasn't possible since my iPhone was in my alarm clock. So after waking up, I had to plug it into my computer and wait for it to sync...thus taking up far more of my time than had I been able to sync wirelessly.
Does it check the battery level beforehand to ensure it won't die mid-sync? (I suspect not)
Does it access the filesystem in some way that doesn't violate guidelines (I suspect not)
Can the developer submit any evidence that this discussion took place like an e-mail from Apple? (I suspect not).
These kinds of stories always get the trolls excited because they are ALWAYS one sided. Once in a very rare blue moon, Apple might comment on some high profile app like Skype, but those are exceedingly rare. In this case, we just have the word of some pissed of developer with a seemingly poor implementation.
Would wireless sync be nice? Somewhat. I could see syncing calendar info, and possibly app purchases, assuming they could do so securely, and I'm not talking only about user security but also about app security in regards to pirating and whatnot).
Will I get all weepy that I don't have to plug a cable in? Hardly.
This is why jailbreaking is the only way to have a iPhone.
it's not. you can have an iphone that is not jailbroken and be happy as a clam.
what dismays me about this is that this gentlemen doesn't seem to have tried to deal with the security issue etc. he comes off like "okay screw you Apple, i'll just go to Cydia" instead of wanting to do a little more work.
Jailbreaking can also cause issues and voids one's warranty. Even if you restore the phone without the break, if it comes up that you ever did break it, Apple can refuse to provide any service per the TC of the warranty. Even to the point perhaps of putting a note on your phone's serial number in case you try to go to another store etc.
Even if I rented a laptop, I'd still have the freedom to put software on it.
not true. As the actual owner of said laptop, I can place any conditions I want on the rental of said unit. If you complete the rental you have agreed to the conditions and can be penalized for violation as a breach of contract. So if I say that you can not install your own software you can't. If I say that you will have to pay a $500 fine for install your own software and you refuse to pay it, I can take you to court. If I pull out a signed contract that spells out these items and clearly shows your signature, the court is more likely to side with me.
Also, when you buy a computer, phone etc. it was made with a particular OS. You know this when you buy it. So you buy it knowing that not all software will work by virtue of technology. I buy a Mac and I know (unless I'm a total moron) that my copy of Office for Windows won't work.
The only difference with the iphone is the issue of whether, all else being equal tech wise, Apple has the legal right to say their store or no. At this point, the courts haven't refuted that right. So until someone turns it into a court case and Apple gets slapped down and told they can't restrict apps so long as the language etc is correct, they can and will continue on their way
It's not useless. It's just useless to cry over it.
Exactly. Every time something like this comes up we get this moaning and groaning reaction. Ground Hog Day here on AI. People need to just consider what they want, and get that. If you don't like the features and usefulness of <fill in name of Apple Inc. product>, then find and buy another product that you find more suited. Countless analogies have been given here to illustrate that Apple designs and sells products and services to match their plans, they don't custom create products to the specific desires of each of us. People who post here that they have decided to not buy something from Apple, and instead have purchased and are using another device seem to be behaving sensibly to me. (As long as they don't keep repeating it!)
You can put what you like on your iPhone, Apple are not stopping you.
Apple are just refusing to put software in THIER store (not your store).
There are many alternative phones out there, you are free to choose.
Just as Apple don't have to PCs or Windows in their Retail Stores, they don't have to sell software they don't like in the App Store. How simple is that?
Huh? Apple <is> not stopping you? They attempt to control what you can install and run with nearly every OS update. Thus newer version of jailbreaking software in a constant back and forth. Where have you been? It's very simple.
Why are people suddenly so concerned that security is an issue here? Do you worry when you're writing confidential emails over wifi? Wifi transfers can easily be secure, that's a fact.
I have always been concerned with security, where warranted. I have banking and credit card information on my devices. As well as apps in development which contain proprietary data.
As I explained, in my post, I don't want these transmitted over WiFi if doing so will allow them to be compromised.
I don't send confidential emails over unsecured WiFi. My routers are secure. When at insecure WiFi locations I don't send sensitive data in the clear!
However, as i look at the neighbors WiFi connections available to me, several are insecure... not everyone knows or cares about the risk!
So, a user who doesn't understand the risk, buys a WiFi synch app from the Apple's app store. He installs it on his unsecured network, and suddenly his credit cards and contact info (with personal comments) are all over town.
Who's he gonna' blame (sue)... Poor Joe Developer... or Deep Pockets Apple?
When you own a store there is an implied guarantee that you will not sell products that you know can be harmful, without proper warning... it is unethical, and may also be illegal!
.
And therefore, we are not allowed the choice?
hmm yeah...
you have the choice to remove your wisdom teeth without any anesthesia as well
get a droid and stop playing the victim for god's sake...it will only get you so far
I don't understand how he managed to such an app without breaking any rules.
There's no porn, no copyright or trademark issues. it's not just calling web based content, doesn't use any private APIs, is totally written in native code (which technically doesn't kick in until 4.0 is live). it isn't app spam etc.
Exactly. Every time something like this comes up we get this moaning and groaning reaction. Ground Hog Day here on AI. People need to just consider what they want, and get that. If you don't like the features and usefulness of <fill in name of Apple Inc. product>, then find and buy another product that you find more suited. Countless analogies have been given here to illustrate that Apple designs and sells products and services to match their plans, they don't custom create products to the specific desires of each of us. People who post here that they have decided to not buy something from Apple, and instead have purchased and are using another device seem to be behaving sensibly to me. (As long as they don't keep repeating it!)
Gee, wasn't that long ago Apple fans were derisively fighting off nearly identical defenses of Microsoft. I'm amazed how many people continue to give Apple a pass for things that were "bad" when Microsoft was involved.
Less garbage...
I don't know about that. One post here the other day had one douchebag posting approximately 40 times (1/10th of the thread), and I don't believe that is an exaggeration, but I lost count a couple of times ? and all he was doing was alternating between trollbaiting and defending himself against because accused of trolling.
Stop feeding the trolls, people. For the love of Jobs.
when i first read about the app being submitted for approval, i thought the developer was announcing it, because he expected it to be rejected. i fully expected he was going to be another developer using outrage over his rejection as a marketing gimmick.
maybe i'm just too cynical...
Nah... you're a realist!
.
Gee, wasn't that long ago Apple fans were derisively fighting off nearly identical defenses of Microsoft. I'm amazed how many people continue to give Apple a pass for things that were "bad" when Microsoft was involved.
I guess. It wasn't me, I could care less what Microsoft does.
One of the Pluses for Nook and Kindle users is:
1. syncing without a computer
2. a battery that lasts a week without a charge.
I know this is a posting for the iPhone, but it opens up the discussion for all thier mobile devices.
You can put what you like on your iPhone, Apple are not stopping you.
Apple are just refusing to put software in THIER (sic) store (not your store).
The latter leads to the former by definition. For you to separate the two is semantics, not reality. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
It's also a disingenuous argument because you and everyone else knows that Apple rejecting an app is basically a death knell for the app. Since only a small % of users jailbreak (and Apple does everything they can to thwart jailbreaking with each firmware update), no developer can effectively make a living selling through Cydia instead of the App Store. Stop pretending that your technicality somehow obviates the truth.
There's no porn, no copyright or trademark issues. it's not just calling web based content, doesn't use any private APIs, is totally written in native code (which technically doesn't kick in until 4.0 is live). it isn't app spam etc.
How does he turn off backup?
How does he allow the backup to take place?
Does he perform the backup?
Isn't that a "system" function of the OS the Device and iTunes?
If it is, are there public APIs that provide access to backup?
Can he disable other functions during backup to prevent corruption?
Can he assure that the backup is reliable?
How?
Some, but not all files that get synched, are accessible on the device through public APIs, how does he handle any that are not?
Can he assure that the files and their metadata are synched without data loss or corruption.
Without satisfactory answers to all of the above, would you accept it if you were Apple?
.
Another potential problem that would end up falling on Apple's shoulders. Users turn off backups, never do one again, have a problem with their iPhone, can't restore it properly, Angry phone calls to Apple support ensue...
I already addressed that, your scenario assumes that the user never does a wired sync ever again. Even one wired sync a week would be plenty. Much of the important data is synced anyway.
Syncing in general is going to be out, long before WiFi syncing becomes a useable standard feature. There won't be any point in syncing your music or video when your portable can stream them, gapless and seamless, and in full quality, over the air, just as if they were local on the device. This, isn't far off at all, and is much easier to accomplish than actually transferring (copying) the files.
You see this over ATT's network in the near future (as you say it is not that far off)? You really are an optimist considering I got video about 25% of the time on the CBS NCAA app. When I got video most of the time it was highly pixelated and jerky.
But, right around the corner I am going to get "gapless, seemless, and in full quality, over the air" movies?
I already addressed that, your scenario assumes that the user never does a wired sync ever again. ...
I think it could pretty much be guaranteed that some non-zero percentage of users would never do a wired sync again.