Awhile. But CDMA can be upgraded to carry simultaneous voice/data without having to go to LTE. That upgrade is likely far easier than the transition to LTE.
And yet they and everyone else seems to be ignoring EV-DO Rev. B and going with a '4G' technology as their next step over EV-DO Rev. A. Some places they've even jumped to 3GSM.
While that's all true it's a scenario that ignores every other logistic issue in order to make a Verizon iPhone seem like a obvious choice.
Such as?
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial. Some would argue that designing the phone itself would be a challenge. But in what way? It's not as if the entire phone would need to be redesigned. Only a relatively small portion would need to be replaced. Yes, there are integration issues to sort out, but manufacturers have been making GSM & CDMA versions of the same phones for years. It's not exactly rocket science!
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial.
That's trivial to you? Have you not seen any of the thousands of articles for three years of depleted supplies of iPhones, Apple affecting NAND shortages and jacking up the price due to shortages, every other supply and inventory issue that has come out regarding the iPhone or the excessive unit sale growth they are experiencing?
You already mentioned that AT&T (the most vile network and 2nd largest network in the US) sells 1/3 of all iPhones, yet you think that adding Verizon (the highest rated and largest network in the US) would magically have enough iPhones for all their customers? If your can only produce x-many units and already able to sell x-many units then adding another carrier to sell more units isn't going to increase your profit.
For many reasons, I want Verizon to get the iPhone, but that doesn't mean I blindly think it's a viable option. There are plenty of other reasons why Apple or other vendors choose to use exclusive deals but that is enough evidence to show that you can't just matter into into existence.
No doubt. There's also no doubt that it's effective. MANY of my clients illustrate the effectiveness when they tell me that they're going to wait for an iPhone because "someone" told them it was coming to Verizon this fall. Two clients told me that today, and almost daily someone does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I oft here it, too. Never from T-Mobile or Sprint users, just Verizon users.
I agree.
That said, Apple could easily rectify the issue by issuing a simple press statement.
Strange that they don't seem to care too much about this.
That said, Apple could easily rectify the issue by issuing a simple press statement.
Strange that they don't seem to care too much about this.
I imagine they like the fact that people keep speculating over it, keeping the iPhone as an aspirational brand, something people drool over. Apple's brand would only be hurt by limiting the discussion of when VZ users can finally get it. It's an unique situation - how to keep a HUGE group of customers wanting and wanting and wanting your product, yet continually having someone else to blame for not making it happen?
Apple gains some leverage over AT&T with the threat of making a deal with Verizon.
It's not all that strange that Apple hides its cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
I imagine they like the fact that people keep speculating over it, keeping the iPhone as an aspirational brand, something people drool over. Apple's brand would only be hurt by limiting the discussion of when VZ users can finally get it. It's an unique situation - how to keep a HUGE group of customers wanting and wanting and wanting your product, yet continually having someone else to blame for not making it happen?
Excellent points.
Those are some pretty wicked cost-benefit tradeoffs.
If I had a nickle for every time someone said something like that (someone = salesperson almost every time) I'd be rich.
unless you work for Apple in a position that makes you privy to the contract with ATT you really can't say that. and if you are, you probably shouldn't be saying it.
it is possible that the contract was reworked when the iphone took off and ATT is losing their exclusive rights this summer.
but it is also possible that Apple has no intentions of ever creating a CDMA phone and all they are going to do is any needed hardware and software tweaks to make the 3g work with T-Mobile (which has been proven by the unlockers to already have working EDGE).
so no more just ATT and Verizon still doesn't get the iphone
Exclusivity to one carrier is going to kill Apple if they keep that going for much longer. Android will push it's way through all carriers and multiple hardware models. Already starting to see that. Enough people don't like AT&T that they will just get an Android phone. Kind of reminds me of Tony Stark in Iron Man 2, confident that no one would compete to the point he got too cocky.
So let them. More bandwidth for me to play with...
It is bad form to just laugh at the competitor...isn't that Ballmer's habit?
It also seems that the Verizon phone would come after a possible second phone for China (you know, the larger untapped market).
I think the difficult part is that Verizon is claiming to have Voice & data on their emerging network which I would think is a lot smaller map than their existing network. Not exactly where I think people would rush off to.
Oh and this is my first first.
de la Vega didn't laugh at the competitor.
He laughed at the person asking when AT&T's exclusive contract with Apple would end.
Wouldn't YOU laugh at someone who asked you to give away a trade secret?
I have no time to search for the references but the CEO of AT&T, then Cingular bragged about this. How he personally approved the deal even without a prototype of the iPhone -- just becaause he believed in Steve Jobs. If my memory serves, I remember Steve Jobs or some other high officer of Apple talked about this deal also in an interview (not sure whether it was on TV, magazine, NPR podcast??? -- I had a new iPod then). The focus was: How Apple approached Verizon first. [If anyone could confirm these with links, it would help. Thanks,]
There's a reason why no one will provide these vapor references. It's not true.
In fact, the opposite of what you claimed is the only valid reference available.
From Ivan Seidenberg, Verizon's CEO... from his own mouth:
Apple never seriously considered making a CDMA version of the iPhone because it didn't have as wide a distribution opportunity.
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial. Some would argue that designing the phone itself would be a challenge. But in what way? It's not as if the entire phone would need to be redesigned. Only a relatively small portion would need to be replaced. Yes, there are integration issues to sort out, but manufacturers have been making GSM & CDMA versions of the same phones for years. It's not exactly rocket science!
Based on your post I would have to believe that you haven't spent much time on the hardware side of things. Either that, or you're just blowing smoke to get a rise out of those here who have...
unless you work for Apple in a position that makes you privy to the contract with ATT you really can't say that. and if you are, you probably shouldn't be saying it.
Nope. The chances that that rumor is reliable are ZERO.
Now, it may be true, as all rumors about the iPhone eventually come true. But the idiot salesperson who communicated the rumor has absolutely no chance of having any reliability or knowledge about what he said.
de La Vega has got to be the most STUPID and delusional executive out there. How he thinks they won't lose customers if/when Verizon gets the iPhone is beyond comprehension. Does he not know that current AT&T customers HATE their service but are stuck with a stupid contract?
The only carrier to ever agree to adopt a new phone, introduced by a company with no record of making cellphones AND without even seeing the final version was AT&T. Some would call de la Vega just lucky, others might call him brilliant, but all can agree to call him ballsy. He rolled the dice and came up a winner. Perhaps Verizon has been able to keep its churn ratio lower than other companies, but the only carrier to score big with net new customers has been AT&T.
I have three iPhones in my plan under different termination dates. Verizon is notorious for having the most expensive plans out there. What incentive is there for me to leave AT&T and go get raped some more at Verizon?
Awhile. But CDMA can be upgraded to carry simultaneous voice/data without having to go to LTE. That upgrade is likely far easier than the transition to LTE.
With as much emphasis Verizon puts on their network you can bet LTE will be awesome. Don't forget that Verizon's LTE network will be 100% in the 700MHz spectrum (I can't remember how many bands AT&T's 4G network will be in, I think it's at least 3, maybe more...) Verizon won nearly all of the "C" block auction with the exception of Alaska giving them literally "coast to coast" coverage. Also, the 700MHz spectrum gives them tremendous propagation advantages versus the folks who are deploying LTE in the higher spectrum ranges. 700MHz spectrum means that there will be fewer sites required and they will have better building penetration. Verizon is on target to launch 25 to 30 markets by the end of 2010 or 1/3 of the country, and by the end of 2013, their entire 3G footprint will be covered by 4G, that's covered by 4G, not replaced by 4G. Their LTE footprint will actually be bigger than their 3G footprint is today. Look for Verizon to keep running the EvDO network for the foreseeable future.
Don't forget that Verizon's LTE network will be 100% in the 700MHz spectrum (I can't remember how many bands AT&T's 4G network will be in, I think it's at least 3, maybe more...)
I'm not following what your getting at. AT&T's Block-B is all 700MHz, too.
Remember, AT&T's stated position on going for Block-C was the requirement to support open access, though I suspect cost was the primary factor. I think they choose well by going for Block-B and then buying Aloha, the largest owner of the 700MHz spectrum in the US. According to Wikipedia, "Aloha currently owns 12 MHz of spectrum covering 60% of the United States - including all of the top 10 markets and 84% of the population in the top 40 markets" and "covers 196 million people in 281 markets."
Saving $3 Billion looks like a great move, but let's see what they do with it. AT&T doesn't have the need to move to LTE the way Verizon does so it'll be a few years before we really get to see who made the better play.
I can see why everyone is more concerned about Verizon (being so large and all), but I am more interested in whether T-Mobile will get the iPhone because it has great coverage where I live and is much cheaper.
Is it safe to assume that T-Mobile will also get the iPhone if AT&T loses exclusivity? I know it will eventually, but I'm hoping for sooner rather than later.
Perhaps. TMUSA uses a unique GSM band that would require a new multi-band chip. Also, it might have great coverage where you live, but that won't be the case if you do any traveling. TMUSA is significantly behind the big three in coverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
Totally agreed. Apple needs to be on all GSM carriers at least
All two of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregoriusM
Don't know, seeing as how both Telus and Bell were CDMA only, and have put 3G on top of that to support the iPhone and similar phones.
I don't know if Verizon has been pursuing the same technology as Telus and Bell on the way to LTE, but if they have been, then there's no reason the current iPhone couldn't be put on Verizon.
It could have to do with internal politics, contracts, etc. as well, not just the technology.
Hmmmmmmm....... I just had a thought. Maybe the new iPhone "prototype" leaks are true. The ones without the screws for AT&T and the ones with the screws for Verizon... jus 'cause! lol
No technology, they just installed a GSM network in addition to their existing CDMA one.
Typical Android fanboy, ignoring the facts....did you miss the part about Apple being the #6 or #7 mobile phone manufacturer in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation
Exclusivity to one carrier is going to kill Apple if they keep that going for much longer. Android will push it's way through all carriers and multiple hardware models. Already starting to see that. Enough people don't like AT&T that they will just get an Android phone. Kind of reminds me of Tony Stark in Iron Man 2, confident that no one would compete to the point he got too cocky.
Comments
Awhile. But CDMA can be upgraded to carry simultaneous voice/data without having to go to LTE. That upgrade is likely far easier than the transition to LTE.
And yet they and everyone else seems to be ignoring EV-DO Rev. B and going with a '4G' technology as their next step over EV-DO Rev. A. Some places they've even jumped to 3GSM.
While that's all true it's a scenario that ignores every other logistic issue in order to make a Verizon iPhone seem like a obvious choice.
Such as?
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial. Some would argue that designing the phone itself would be a challenge. But in what way? It's not as if the entire phone would need to be redesigned. Only a relatively small portion would need to be replaced. Yes, there are integration issues to sort out, but manufacturers have been making GSM & CDMA versions of the same phones for years. It's not exactly rocket science!
Such as?
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial.
That's trivial to you? Have you not seen any of the thousands of articles for three years of depleted supplies of iPhones, Apple affecting NAND shortages and jacking up the price due to shortages, every other supply and inventory issue that has come out regarding the iPhone or the excessive unit sale growth they are experiencing?
You already mentioned that AT&T (the most vile network and 2nd largest network in the US) sells 1/3 of all iPhones, yet you think that adding Verizon (the highest rated and largest network in the US) would magically have enough iPhones for all their customers? If your can only produce x-many units and already able to sell x-many units then adding another carrier to sell more units isn't going to increase your profit.
For many reasons, I want Verizon to get the iPhone, but that doesn't mean I blindly think it's a viable option. There are plenty of other reasons why Apple or other vendors choose to use exclusive deals but that is enough evidence to show that you can't just matter into into existence.
No doubt. There's also no doubt that it's effective. MANY of my clients illustrate the effectiveness when they tell me that they're going to wait for an iPhone because "someone" told them it was coming to Verizon this fall. Two clients told me that today, and almost daily someone does.
I oft here it, too. Never from T-Mobile or Sprint users, just Verizon users.
I agree.
That said, Apple could easily rectify the issue by issuing a simple press statement.
Strange that they don't seem to care too much about this.
I agree.
That said, Apple could easily rectify the issue by issuing a simple press statement.
Strange that they don't seem to care too much about this.
Apple gains some leverage over AT&T with the threat of making a deal with Verizon.
It's not all that strange that Apple hides its cards.
I agree.
That said, Apple could easily rectify the issue by issuing a simple press statement.
Strange that they don't seem to care too much about this.
I imagine they like the fact that people keep speculating over it, keeping the iPhone as an aspirational brand, something people drool over. Apple's brand would only be hurt by limiting the discussion of when VZ users can finally get it. It's an unique situation - how to keep a HUGE group of customers wanting and wanting and wanting your product, yet continually having someone else to blame for not making it happen?
Apple gains some leverage over AT&T with the threat of making a deal with Verizon.
It's not all that strange that Apple hides its cards.
That's a good point.
Apple gains some leverage over AT&T with the threat of making a deal with Verizon.
It's not all that strange that Apple hides its cards.
I imagine they like the fact that people keep speculating over it, keeping the iPhone as an aspirational brand, something people drool over. Apple's brand would only be hurt by limiting the discussion of when VZ users can finally get it. It's an unique situation - how to keep a HUGE group of customers wanting and wanting and wanting your product, yet continually having someone else to blame for not making it happen?
Excellent points.
Those are some pretty wicked cost-benefit tradeoffs.
Does he not know that current AT&T customers HATE their service but are stuck with a stupid contract?
it's not 100%. there are a lot of folks, even around here that talk about how good ATT is for them.
i think 'not worried' is their code for 'no our contract doesn't end until 2012' myself
I know how reliable it is. Zero %
If I had a nickle for every time someone said something like that (someone = salesperson almost every time) I'd be rich.
unless you work for Apple in a position that makes you privy to the contract with ATT you really can't say that. and if you are, you probably shouldn't be saying it.
it is possible that the contract was reworked when the iphone took off and ATT is losing their exclusive rights this summer.
but it is also possible that Apple has no intentions of ever creating a CDMA phone and all they are going to do is any needed hardware and software tweaks to make the 3g work with T-Mobile (which has been proven by the unlockers to already have working EDGE).
so no more just ATT and Verizon still doesn't get the iphone
Exclusivity to one carrier is going to kill Apple if they keep that going for much longer. Android will push it's way through all carriers and multiple hardware models. Already starting to see that. Enough people don't like AT&T that they will just get an Android phone. Kind of reminds me of Tony Stark in Iron Man 2, confident that no one would compete to the point he got too cocky.
So let them. More bandwidth for me to play with...
It is bad form to just laugh at the competitor...isn't that Ballmer's habit?
It also seems that the Verizon phone would come after a possible second phone for China (you know, the larger untapped market).
I think the difficult part is that Verizon is claiming to have Voice & data on their emerging network which I would think is a lot smaller map than their existing network. Not exactly where I think people would rush off to.
Oh and this is my first first.
de la Vega didn't laugh at the competitor.
He laughed at the person asking when AT&T's exclusive contract with Apple would end.
Wouldn't YOU laugh at someone who asked you to give away a trade secret?
Oh, and welcome!
I have no time to search for the references but the CEO of AT&T, then Cingular bragged about this. How he personally approved the deal even without a prototype of the iPhone -- just becaause he believed in Steve Jobs. If my memory serves, I remember Steve Jobs or some other high officer of Apple talked about this deal also in an interview (not sure whether it was on TV, magazine, NPR podcast??? -- I had a new iPod then). The focus was: How Apple approached Verizon first. [If anyone could confirm these with links, it would help. Thanks,]
There's a reason why no one will provide these vapor references. It's not true.
In fact, the opposite of what you claimed is the only valid reference available.
From Ivan Seidenberg, Verizon's CEO... from his own mouth:
Apple never seriously considered making a CDMA version of the iPhone because it didn't have as wide a distribution opportunity.
http://www.9to5mac.com/Verizon-CEO-iPhone
Such as?
The only real hurdle is making the business agreement between the two companies. Everything else (manufacturing, supply chain, inventory, etc) are trivial. Some would argue that designing the phone itself would be a challenge. But in what way? It's not as if the entire phone would need to be redesigned. Only a relatively small portion would need to be replaced. Yes, there are integration issues to sort out, but manufacturers have been making GSM & CDMA versions of the same phones for years. It's not exactly rocket science!
Based on your post I would have to believe that you haven't spent much time on the hardware side of things. Either that, or you're just blowing smoke to get a rise out of those here who have...
unless you work for Apple in a position that makes you privy to the contract with ATT you really can't say that. and if you are, you probably shouldn't be saying it.
Nope. The chances that that rumor is reliable are ZERO.
Now, it may be true, as all rumors about the iPhone eventually come true. But the idiot salesperson who communicated the rumor has absolutely no chance of having any reliability or knowledge about what he said.
de La Vega has got to be the most STUPID and delusional executive out there. How he thinks they won't lose customers if/when Verizon gets the iPhone is beyond comprehension. Does he not know that current AT&T customers HATE their service but are stuck with a stupid contract?
The only carrier to ever agree to adopt a new phone, introduced by a company with no record of making cellphones AND without even seeing the final version was AT&T. Some would call de la Vega just lucky, others might call him brilliant, but all can agree to call him ballsy. He rolled the dice and came up a winner. Perhaps Verizon has been able to keep its churn ratio lower than other companies, but the only carrier to score big with net new customers has been AT&T.
I have three iPhones in my plan under different termination dates. Verizon is notorious for having the most expensive plans out there. What incentive is there for me to leave AT&T and go get raped some more at Verizon?
Awhile. But CDMA can be upgraded to carry simultaneous voice/data without having to go to LTE. That upgrade is likely far easier than the transition to LTE.
With as much emphasis Verizon puts on their network you can bet LTE will be awesome. Don't forget that Verizon's LTE network will be 100% in the 700MHz spectrum (I can't remember how many bands AT&T's 4G network will be in, I think it's at least 3, maybe more...) Verizon won nearly all of the "C" block auction with the exception of Alaska giving them literally "coast to coast" coverage. Also, the 700MHz spectrum gives them tremendous propagation advantages versus the folks who are deploying LTE in the higher spectrum ranges. 700MHz spectrum means that there will be fewer sites required and they will have better building penetration. Verizon is on target to launch 25 to 30 markets by the end of 2010 or 1/3 of the country, and by the end of 2013, their entire 3G footprint will be covered by 4G, that's covered by 4G, not replaced by 4G. Their LTE footprint will actually be bigger than their 3G footprint is today. Look for Verizon to keep running the EvDO network for the foreseeable future.
Don't forget that Verizon's LTE network will be 100% in the 700MHz spectrum (I can't remember how many bands AT&T's 4G network will be in, I think it's at least 3, maybe more...)
I'm not following what your getting at. AT&T's Block-B is all 700MHz, too.
Remember, AT&T's stated position on going for Block-C was the requirement to support open access, though I suspect cost was the primary factor. I think they choose well by going for Block-B and then buying Aloha, the largest owner of the 700MHz spectrum in the US. According to Wikipedia, "Aloha currently owns 12 MHz of spectrum covering 60% of the United States - including all of the top 10 markets and 84% of the population in the top 40 markets" and "covers 196 million people in 281 markets."
Saving $3 Billion looks like a great move, but let's see what they do with it. AT&T doesn't have the need to move to LTE the way Verizon does so it'll be a few years before we really get to see who made the better play.
I can see why everyone is more concerned about Verizon (being so large and all), but I am more interested in whether T-Mobile will get the iPhone because it has great coverage where I live and is much cheaper.
Is it safe to assume that T-Mobile will also get the iPhone if AT&T loses exclusivity? I know it will eventually, but I'm hoping for sooner rather than later.
Perhaps. TMUSA uses a unique GSM band that would require a new multi-band chip. Also, it might have great coverage where you live, but that won't be the case if you do any traveling. TMUSA is significantly behind the big three in coverage.
Totally agreed. Apple needs to be on all GSM carriers at least
All two of them.
Don't know, seeing as how both Telus and Bell were CDMA only, and have put 3G on top of that to support the iPhone and similar phones.
I don't know if Verizon has been pursuing the same technology as Telus and Bell on the way to LTE, but if they have been, then there's no reason the current iPhone couldn't be put on Verizon.
It could have to do with internal politics, contracts, etc. as well, not just the technology.
Hmmmmmmm....... I just had a thought. Maybe the new iPhone "prototype" leaks are true. The ones without the screws for AT&T and the ones with the screws for Verizon... jus 'cause! lol
No technology, they just installed a GSM network in addition to their existing CDMA one.
Exclusivity to one carrier is going to kill Apple if they keep that going for much longer. Android will push it's way through all carriers and multiple hardware models. Already starting to see that. Enough people don't like AT&T that they will just get an Android phone. Kind of reminds me of Tony Stark in Iron Man 2, confident that no one would compete to the point he got too cocky.