Well to me the developer tools thing seems a little far fetched, but at the same time, I wouldn't mind it happening, especially if it allows developers who are locked into Windows (and like it or not, many corporations are), to create apps for iPhone and iPad.
If Balmer does appear on stage it would seem more likely to be about search however.
Again, assuming there is some truth in it, it does show how pragmatic both companies can be. With Google attempting to get into everything, Microsoft and Apple aligning on some projects could help push back against Google.
Um, I remember it slightly differently. Codewarrior only built PEF executables, I don't think they ever migrated to Mach-o. Metrowerks sold their Intel compiler to a third party. Apple announced their move to Intel. Metrowerks rolled over, got bought up by Freescale (? IIRC) and vanished into a puff of smoke. All their own doing. Their product was tied to PowerPC, and the platform was EOL. They had no Intel compiler*, so would need to rebadge GCC. Their Mac toolset was geared around PEF, and PEF died with the PowerPC.
* their Intel compiler was a pile of crud and only really did PE. I think they used GCC for any ELF based IA32 platforms, certainly did for most things after they started to spread their product range too thinly over emerging platforms like the Mobile Linux IDE they were doing for QTopia etc.
As I recall it, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by many CodeWarrior developers from the very beginnings of Mac OS X. They maintained it was "unfair" of Apple to effectively deprecate PowerPlant. (Of course, what they really meant was that they thought it was "unfair" for them to have to rewrite their apps.) Intel was certainly the final nail in their coffin, but they were doomed long before that.
Steve Bomber will get up on stage and talk about how excited they are that Bing is in iPhone os4, and halfway through his presentation, they'll play this video on the big-screen:
As I recall it, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by many CodeWarrior developers from the very beginnings of Mac OS X. They maintained it was "unfair" of Apple to effectively deprecate PowerPlant. (Of course, what they really meant was that they thought it was "unfair" for them to have to rewrite their apps.) Intel was certainly the final nail in their coffin, but they were doomed long before that.
Yeah. when their lead developer took an unexpected indefinite leave of absence and nobody could figure out his code.
How is MS going to sell Visual Studio 2010 to Mac developers when Apple give them Xcode for free? People buy bottled water, so maybe there's hope.
From what I gather, Visual Studio is an SDK for Windows. Something to help software folks. And given the stuff that is coming out for Macs only that is actually rather good, I could see Microsoft wanting the same goodies for their kiddies. So yeah, make it easier for folks to do both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers
This doesn't make any sense. Microsoft tools use a completely different runtime. Apple just made the no 3rd party runtimes rule.
For the iphone OS, yes. but this conference isn't just about the iphone and friends. It's about Mac OS X also. So some presentations will be about that and have nothing to do with the iphone side.
If iPhone OS (and/or Mac OS*) development tools were incorporated into VS, I think that would depend entirely on the nature of the integration. But, I just don't see the upside for Apple in doing this. (Seriously, who are all these developers who are clamoring to develop for the iPhone, only being held back because they can't use VS to do it?) Xcode for Windows would make more sense than VS integration, unless the "integration" would be effectively that.
* Although, I don't really see the point of avoiding buying a Mac so you could do Mac OS development on Windows, you still need to test your software on a Mac.
There may be developers that may not be clamoring to do Mac/iPhone development, but for whom having to buy a Mac might be a barrier to giving it a try.
For a shop like ours, we have Macs available for our Mac development. One current downside is that the build servers that we use for our Windows products cannot be used for Mac builds (obviously). We have to maintain separate build systems, scripts, etc for our Mac software. This change, if true, might allow us to build the Mac projects with the Windows projects on the same build servers. We would still maintain our Mac workstations for actual development, but some efficiencies would be gained.
I am not entirely sure what Apple would gain here. I think they would lose face a bit, given some of their statements about avoiding dependence on third parties. Perhaps, given the sheer size of the Visual Studio installed base (gigantic) allowing even a portion of these, that are interested, an easier way to start Mac/iPhone development is enough of an upside.
For the iphone OS, yes. but this conference isn't just about the iphone and friends. It's about Mac OS X also. So some presentations will be about that and have nothing to do with the iphone side.
I thought they were only going to have tracks related to iPhone OS this year since there was so much to address in that area and not enough time to focus on the Mac at all.
I've been thinking for a while that while Apple is dissing Flash, they might very well be preparing to allow Silverlight. Unlike Flash, which is just a buggy ad-delivery device, Silverlight
nope. Because the whole thing isn't about Flash. It is about all non native coding. Flash, Flash like other stuff, Java.
Apple wants it all in original code so that there's less chance that something will break when they do OS updates etc. And because it should result in cleaner, less bloated code. Space is precious on the Iphone devices so bloat is very bad. And since a break can crash a phone that can be very bad for the user
Maybe Ballmer is to announce the outcome of an alliance. One where Safari 5.0 uses Bing exclusively and Microsoft uses iAd on Windows 7 Phone Series OS (whatever its called). That would deep six Google.
The other would be for Ballmer and Co. to join Apple and reject Flash on their mobile devices. Maybe Ballmer is going to state a version of SilverLight runs on iPhone OS and is approved by Apple. Bye bye Flash on mobile - we never knew you.
I am not entirely sure what Apple would gain here. I think they would lose face a bit, given some of their statements about avoiding dependence on third parties. Perhaps, given the sheer size of the Visual Studio installed base (gigantic) allowing even a portion of these, that are interested, an easier way to start Mac/iPhone development is enough of an upside.
I think that it's most likely that something has gotten lost in translation with this rumor, assuming it has any basis at all.
Wouldn't Visual Studio for iPhone be against the terms of use? People can't right apps with Adobe's software so why let crappy apps be created with Visual Studio?
Not at all.
It's not how you create it but the end result. Adobe's software is a no go because they just took the Flash (which is not supported in the OS) and slapped a translation layer over it to make it work.
But if Adobe's software and Microsoft's, actually create top to bottom approved code, it's fine. If one is worried about it, just take out the "made with XXXX" metatag that the software will probably put in and no one is any the wiser
If Clang/LLVM is mature enough then Apple can ditch GCC and provide Windows users with a complete Xcode IDE, or at least an extension to Visual Studio so Windows developers can create native Mac apps.
... an alliance ... where Safari 5.0 uses Bing exclusively and Microsoft uses iAd on Windows 7 Phone Series OS (whatever its called). That would deep six Google. ...
Bing exclusivity is unlikely, there would be anti-trust implications at minimum. More likely if they use Bing at all it will just be the default.
If Clang/LLVM is mature enough then Apple can ditch GCC and provide Windows users with a complete Xcode IDE, or at least an extension to Visual Studio so Windows developers can create native Mac apps.
They will still complain about the tools though. If there is one thing certain with developers it's that they will complain about what you give them no matter what.
nope. Because the whole thing isn't about Flash. It is about all non native coding. Flash, Flash like other stuff, Java.
Apple wants it all in original code so that there's less chance that something will break when they do OS updates etc. And because it should result in cleaner, less bloated code. Space is precious on the Iphone devices so bloat is very bad. And since a break can crash a phone that can be very bad for the user
All true, but nothing is sacred. Apple would put shag carpeting on the back of the iMac if they thought it would sell. I'm not saying it will happen, but I think that Silverlight has advantages over Java and Flash in terms of what it can do for Apple's sales, and so I think it is possible. But yeah... it probably won't happen.
Microsoft, having been broken up by the Obama Justice Dept 2013, lies in ruin. Windows has gone from 95% market share to 30%. Apple commands 65% of the operating system market, 50% of the mobile phone market, and 90% of the digital media market. Microsoft is still working on Windows 8.....
(WWDC--June, 2020)
Jobs is standing center stage. He details the battles between M$ and Apple over the past 40 years, finally wrapping up with the famous phrase..."and one more thing..."
Suddenly, Gates walks across the stage. Jobs stands there, then motions for him to come over. He folds his arms. "Now...kneel. Kneel before jobs." Gates signs, and reluctantly bows. "Finally" jobs says. "Take my hand and pledge eternal loyalty." As he does, Jobs grabs a cattle brand with the original Mac smiley logo. He thrusts it into Gates chest. Gates howls in terror, and disintegrates into nothingness. The crowd goes wild.
What a terrible thing to write.
Bill Gates is a fantastic human being. He is doing wonderful things with his foundation. He deserves respect. He certainly has mine.
Comments
If Balmer does appear on stage it would seem more likely to be about search however.
Again, assuming there is some truth in it, it does show how pragmatic both companies can be. With Google attempting to get into everything, Microsoft and Apple aligning on some projects could help push back against Google.
Um, I remember it slightly differently. Codewarrior only built PEF executables, I don't think they ever migrated to Mach-o. Metrowerks sold their Intel compiler to a third party. Apple announced their move to Intel. Metrowerks rolled over, got bought up by Freescale (? IIRC) and vanished into a puff of smoke. All their own doing. Their product was tied to PowerPC, and the platform was EOL. They had no Intel compiler*, so would need to rebadge GCC. Their Mac toolset was geared around PEF, and PEF died with the PowerPC.
* their Intel compiler was a pile of crud and only really did PE. I think they used GCC for any ELF based IA32 platforms, certainly did for most things after they started to spread their product range too thinly over emerging platforms like the Mobile Linux IDE they were doing for QTopia etc.
As I recall it, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by many CodeWarrior developers from the very beginnings of Mac OS X. They maintained it was "unfair" of Apple to effectively deprecate PowerPlant. (Of course, what they really meant was that they thought it was "unfair" for them to have to rewrite their apps.) Intel was certainly the final nail in their coffin, but they were doomed long before that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcUic...eature=related
As I recall it, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by many CodeWarrior developers from the very beginnings of Mac OS X. They maintained it was "unfair" of Apple to effectively deprecate PowerPlant. (Of course, what they really meant was that they thought it was "unfair" for them to have to rewrite their apps.) Intel was certainly the final nail in their coffin, but they were doomed long before that.
Yeah. when their lead developer took an unexpected indefinite leave of absence and nobody could figure out his code.
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!
How is MS going to sell Visual Studio 2010 to Mac developers when Apple give them Xcode for free? People buy bottled water, so maybe there's hope.
From what I gather, Visual Studio is an SDK for Windows. Something to help software folks. And given the stuff that is coming out for Macs only that is actually rather good, I could see Microsoft wanting the same goodies for their kiddies. So yeah, make it easier for folks to do both.
This doesn't make any sense. Microsoft tools use a completely different runtime. Apple just made the no 3rd party runtimes rule.
For the iphone OS, yes. but this conference isn't just about the iphone and friends. It's about Mac OS X also. So some presentations will be about that and have nothing to do with the iphone side.
If iPhone OS (and/or Mac OS*) development tools were incorporated into VS, I think that would depend entirely on the nature of the integration. But, I just don't see the upside for Apple in doing this. (Seriously, who are all these developers who are clamoring to develop for the iPhone, only being held back because they can't use VS to do it?) Xcode for Windows would make more sense than VS integration, unless the "integration" would be effectively that.
* Although, I don't really see the point of avoiding buying a Mac so you could do Mac OS development on Windows, you still need to test your software on a Mac.
There may be developers that may not be clamoring to do Mac/iPhone development, but for whom having to buy a Mac might be a barrier to giving it a try.
For a shop like ours, we have Macs available for our Mac development. One current downside is that the build servers that we use for our Windows products cannot be used for Mac builds (obviously). We have to maintain separate build systems, scripts, etc for our Mac software. This change, if true, might allow us to build the Mac projects with the Windows projects on the same build servers. We would still maintain our Mac workstations for actual development, but some efficiencies would be gained.
I am not entirely sure what Apple would gain here. I think they would lose face a bit, given some of their statements about avoiding dependence on third parties. Perhaps, given the sheer size of the Visual Studio installed base (gigantic) allowing even a portion of these, that are interested, an easier way to start Mac/iPhone development is enough of an upside.
For the iphone OS, yes. but this conference isn't just about the iphone and friends. It's about Mac OS X also. So some presentations will be about that and have nothing to do with the iphone side.
I thought they were only going to have tracks related to iPhone OS this year since there was so much to address in that area and not enough time to focus on the Mac at all.
I've been thinking for a while that while Apple is dissing Flash, they might very well be preparing to allow Silverlight. Unlike Flash, which is just a buggy ad-delivery device, Silverlight
nope. Because the whole thing isn't about Flash. It is about all non native coding. Flash, Flash like other stuff, Java.
Apple wants it all in original code so that there's less chance that something will break when they do OS updates etc. And because it should result in cleaner, less bloated code. Space is precious on the Iphone devices so bloat is very bad. And since a break can crash a phone that can be very bad for the user
The other would be for Ballmer and Co. to join Apple and reject Flash on their mobile devices. Maybe Ballmer is going to state a version of SilverLight runs on iPhone OS and is approved by Apple. Bye bye Flash on mobile - we never knew you.
I am not entirely sure what Apple would gain here. I think they would lose face a bit, given some of their statements about avoiding dependence on third parties. Perhaps, given the sheer size of the Visual Studio installed base (gigantic) allowing even a portion of these, that are interested, an easier way to start Mac/iPhone development is enough of an upside.
I think that it's most likely that something has gotten lost in translation with this rumor, assuming it has any basis at all.
Wouldn't Visual Studio for iPhone be against the terms of use? People can't right apps with Adobe's software so why let crappy apps be created with Visual Studio?
Not at all.
It's not how you create it but the end result. Adobe's software is a no go because they just took the Flash (which is not supported in the OS) and slapped a translation layer over it to make it work.
But if Adobe's software and Microsoft's, actually create top to bottom approved code, it's fine. If one is worried about it, just take out the "made with XXXX" metatag that the software will probably put in and no one is any the wiser
... Makes one wonder, dId God ever ask Satan to speak at one heavenly event?
Actually, yes.
Satan used to be God's right-hand man before they had a falling out and he started his own concern on a lower floor.
... an alliance ... where Safari 5.0 uses Bing exclusively and Microsoft uses iAd on Windows 7 Phone Series OS (whatever its called). That would deep six Google. ...
Bing exclusivity is unlikely, there would be anti-trust implications at minimum. More likely if they use Bing at all it will just be the default.
If Clang/LLVM is mature enough then Apple can ditch GCC and provide Windows users with a complete Xcode IDE, or at least an extension to Visual Studio so Windows developers can create native Mac apps.
They will still complain about the tools though. If there is one thing certain with developers it's that they will complain about what you give them no matter what.
nope. Because the whole thing isn't about Flash. It is about all non native coding. Flash, Flash like other stuff, Java.
Apple wants it all in original code so that there's less chance that something will break when they do OS updates etc. And because it should result in cleaner, less bloated code. Space is precious on the Iphone devices so bloat is very bad. And since a break can crash a phone that can be very bad for the user
All true, but nothing is sacred. Apple would put shag carpeting on the back of the iMac if they thought it would sell. I'm not saying it will happen, but I think that Silverlight has advantages over Java and Flash in terms of what it can do for Apple's sales, and so I think it is possible. But yeah... it probably won't happen.
(May, 2020)
Microsoft, having been broken up by the Obama Justice Dept 2013, lies in ruin. Windows has gone from 95% market share to 30%. Apple commands 65% of the operating system market, 50% of the mobile phone market, and 90% of the digital media market. Microsoft is still working on Windows 8.....
(WWDC--June, 2020)
Jobs is standing center stage. He details the battles between M$ and Apple over the past 40 years, finally wrapping up with the famous phrase..."and one more thing..."
Suddenly, Gates walks across the stage. Jobs stands there, then motions for him to come over. He folds his arms. "Now...kneel. Kneel before jobs." Gates signs, and reluctantly bows. "Finally" jobs says. "Take my hand and pledge eternal loyalty." As he does, Jobs grabs a cattle brand with the original Mac smiley logo. He thrusts it into Gates chest. Gates howls in terror, and disintegrates into nothingness. The crowd goes wild.
What a terrible thing to write.
Bill Gates is a fantastic human being. He is doing wonderful things with his foundation. He deserves respect. He certainly has mine.
What a terrible thing to write.
Bill Gates is a fantastic human being. He is doing wonderful things with his foundation. He deserves respect. He certainly has mine.
I agree the post was over the top, but Gates isn't perfect either. See excellent response to my post:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=101