Adobe manager to customer: "Bite me, moron."

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in General Discussion edited January 2014
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  • Reply 1 of 13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msavin View Post


    At first, I thought Adobe was acting like a bunch of little kids over the Flash issue. Now I see they are very professional.



    That is offensive, especially to a customer, I was just giving them the feedback they asked for.





    You're surprised? this is Adobe after all - they've clearly stated that they couldn't give a crap about their end users; we all know about the notorious writings of Adobe managers of how they hate developing for Mac, that if they could drop Mac they would immediately, how Mac's are a complete heap of crap and users are better off getting a Windows PC etc.



    The managers reply also speaks volumes about the type of hiring process they have implemented; where they allow clueless blog writing loud mouths to run the company instead of people with their act together.
  • Reply 2 of 13
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,577moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msavin View Post


    At first, I thought Adobe was acting like a bunch of little kids over the Flash issue. Now I see they are very professional.



    That is offensive, especially to a customer, I was just giving them the feedback they asked for.



    I would say it's unprofessional but you called them lazy first. I quite like when the higher up people are direct and don't hide their words behind politeness because you get a clearer picture of who to trust.







  • Reply 3 of 13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I would say it's unprofessional but you called them lazy first. I quite like when the higher up people are direct and don't hide their words behind politeness because you get a clearer picture of who to trust.



    Mate, if they weren't lazy then you would have a point but for the last 5-10 years they've been giving Mac users the royal screw job; so I would call them lazy, well either lazy or simply that they don't give a crap about customers unless they're running Windows.



    How long did 10.0 ship before they finally fixed up a bug that resulted in their plugin crashing - after protesting for months on end that they never ship a product with a known crash, they finally admitted and fixed 10.0. They've been promising month after month, year after year, that they'll eventually sort out Flash. Yes, 10.1 is an improvement but it too how long before they finally did something?



    Again, if this was a small tin pot company struggling to get by I'd cut them some slack but that simply isn't the case. Time for Adobe to get their act together instead of blaming on innocent bystanders.
  • Reply 4 of 13
    spotonspoton Posts: 645member
    Look, I don't know why anyone is even bothering to get worked up over this Flash issue.



    Really, doesn't people have better things to do than being a unwanted stooge?



    Steve made the decision to make iPads that were not powerful enough for Flash, it's Steve's war, let him fight it.



    He knows he has got to sell volumes of those iPads in order to get the attention of website owners to change their policies and incur the huge costs associated. That can only occur with time.





    So it's no use to go bothering Adobe, they really have been around for Apple during those dark years (other CEO's in charge of Apple) and even threatened to leave the Mac platform that forced Apple's boards hand to buy NextStep and get Steve Jobs back in charge of Apple again.



    Adobe is slow moving, consistent and makes longterm decisions, Apple is fast, furious, creative and driven by Steve Jobs personality. Change will come and eventually more sites will adopt to the changes of hardware if those website owners want to reach those people.



    Can't force it, only through hardware hit traffic of sufficient numbers and time will change things. Just like it did with websites becoming all browser friendly instead of just for IE only.



    If you want Flash on a small portable, get a Ubuntu 10.04 netbook at Dell or another place and install Flash yourself, save yourself a bundle of money and get a real keyboard, touchpad, software, monitor protector and stand to boot.





    Posted using Lucid Lynx in VM.
  • Reply 5 of 13
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,577moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy View Post


    Mate, if they weren't lazy then you would have a point but for the last 5-10 years they've been giving Mac users the royal screw job; so I would call them lazy, well either lazy or simply that they don't give a crap about customers unless they're running Windows.



    Yeah but if a really ugly, fat chick walks by and you say 'ugh you're so ugly and fat', would you expect her to say 'why thanks for your feedback, I will try to fix it right away'? Even if Adobe is lazy, saying it to them directly is unlikely to get a constructive response.



    I'm not so sure about the laziness myself. Adobe was one of the last big companies to switch to Cocoa but they have a huge code-base and plug-in vendors to support. Apple switched from OS9 to OS X in 2000 and from PPC to Intel in 2006 requiring Adobe to make two major switches. If I was running the company, I'd similarly wait until the major transitions cooled down to be assured that any large developments put into a product had some longevity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy View Post


    Yes, 10.1 is an improvement but it too how long before they finally did something?



    You could say the same about Apple though. Adobe's Gala version of Flash was released the same week Apple decided to finally allow them to use the hardware acceleration features of the OS X graphics drivers. Apple didn't give developers access before.



    Apple complained it was so much slower than it was on Windows and Adobe said it's because they don't get access to the features so Apple gives them the features and the problem is mostly solved and could have been solved years ago.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy View Post


    Again, if this was a small tin pot company struggling to get by I'd cut them some slack but that simply isn't the case. Time for Adobe to get their act together instead of blaming on innocent bystanders.



    Certainly with 50% of their customer base using Macs then they should put in more effort, I agree but I actually find Adobe's suite to be some of the most stable apps I use in OS X. Dreamweaver almost never crashes but I've seen TextEdit hang up to the point where only a reboot fixes it, same with Quicktime.
  • Reply 6 of 13
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Yeah but if a really ugly, fat chick walks by and you say 'ugh you're so ugly and fat', would you expect her to say 'why thanks for your feedback, I will try to fix it right away'? Even if Adobe is lazy, saying it to them directly is unlikely to get a constructive response.



    Um, I'm kinda thinking there's a difference between "ugly fat chicks" and huge corporations, and that there's a fair amount of ground between "non-constructive response" and "bite me, moron."



    Huge corporations get irritable feedback all the time. They generally refrain from calling their customers names. If I email, say, Panasonic to tell them that the HD TV they made sucks because the remote is too hard to use, I would be pretty taken aback if their response was in the "fuck off, you're stupid" range.



    I'm not surprised that Adobe seems to have more than their share of think-skinned little pricks that think taunting and self-congratulation makes for corporate relations; I am surprised that they seem to be under the impression that it's OK to do this in public, as a matter of policy.



    Worse, having gone all in with Android they're acting like fucking little nerds that think they have a big kid at their back, hurtling insults and jeers at Apple because them and their new best buddy don't take shit off of nobody. Really, I didn't have a strong opinion about Adobe as a company before all this nonsense started, but now I'm amazed that they can get any software out the door at all, given the apparent tone of the corporate culture.
  • Reply 7 of 13
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Certainly not as a matter of policy. I'd assume that someone was having a really bad day and fired off without putting the brain in gear. Even so, pretty embarrassing behavior.
  • Reply 8 of 13
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Certainly not as a matter of policy. I'd assume that someone was having a really bad day and fired off without putting the brain in gear. Even so, pretty embarrassing behavior.



    Well, you've also got Lee Brimelow's immortal "Screw you, Apple" and various sorts of bellicosity from various Adobe spokescranks.



    Maybe Adobe figures that having official "bloggers" gives them a channel to indulge in school-yard belligerence without tainting the brand; I disagree. Moreover, I'm getting the impression that the big Google (plus various camp followers) push to brand Apple the new Hitler/Satan/Destroyer of Freedom has emboldened the Adobe camp to up their game.



    I expect the next big Flash on Android demo will involve Eric Schmidt and Shantanu Narayen waving their dicks around and giggling like schoolgirls while flinging their feces at a big picture of Jobs. This, of course, will be described by the tech press as part of the "back and forth" between Apple and Adobe, since Jobs occasionally says something to the effect that Flash to date doesn't work very well on mobile devices.
  • Reply 9 of 13
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    I'll grant you that they do need to torque up a few screws over there, but I really do doubt that telling unhappy customers to go f-themselves has become company policy. Or maybe I'm just amusing myself with the delusion.
  • Reply 10 of 13
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,577moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Um, I'm kinda thinking there's a difference between "ugly fat chicks" and huge corporations, and that there's a fair amount of ground between "non-constructive response" and "bite me, moron."



    It was the blog of an employee though and doesn't have to represent the entirety of an organization like Adobe. The full post is the following:



    "of course you should do it - should have started on this long time ago. adobe needs to stop being lazy



    [Bite me, moron. (Or rather, try not being intellectually lazy while calling people "lazy." Like most epithets, it tells us more about its user than its target.) --J.]"



    http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/05..._on_ipads.html



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    If I email, say, Panasonic to tell them that the HD TV they made sucks because the remote is too hard to use, I would be pretty taken aback if their response was in the "fuck off, you're stupid" range.



    The problem Nack had most likely stemmed from the fact the OP called Adobe as a whole lazy, he used a .me account so clearly a Mac user and was just repeating what Jobs said about Adobe. The iPad has only been out for a few weeks so to call them lazy for not putting in PSD support already doesn't warrant them being lazy.



    They could have done it for the iPhone but either way it's not going in natively, it's just going to be a PSD viewer app to browse some synced files. In other words mostly useless really.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox


    I expect the next big Flash on Android demo will involve Eric Schmidt and Shantanu Narayen waving their dicks around and giggling like schoolgirls while flinging their feces at a big picture of Jobs. This, of course, will be described by the tech press as part of the "back and forth" between Apple and Adobe, since Jobs occasionally says something to the effect that Flash to date doesn't work very well on mobile devices.



    It seems that way, every Engadget article about Froyo has comments saying "Suck it Steve" but it's just dumb. The whole reason Apple took their stance was because, as you say, to date Flash has not been demonstrated to work well on mobile devices. For Adobe to come out 3 years after the iPhone launch and say 'look there's Flash running well on a mobile device' is pathetic and only proves the point more. Plus it still doesn't run all that well and for those 3 years, HTML animations have worked just fine.
  • Reply 11 of 13
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It was the blog of an employee though and doesn't have to represent the entirety of an organization like Adobe. The full post is the following:



    "of course you should do it - should have started on this long time ago. adobe needs to stop being lazy



    [Bite me, moron. (Or rather, try not being intellectually lazy while calling people "lazy." Like most epithets, it tells us more about its user than its target.) --J.]"



    http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/05..._on_ipads.html



    I know it's "just a blog" buts it's a blog at an Adobe domain-- seems like if Adobe are going to have people blogging at Adobe.com they might want to get them to tone down the attitude.





    Quote:

    The problem Nack had most likely stemmed from the fact the OP called Adobe as a whole lazy, he used a .me account so clearly a Mac user and was just repeating what Jobs said about Adobe. The iPad has only been out for a few weeks so to call them lazy for not putting in PSD support already doesn't warrant them being lazy.



    They could have done it for the iPhone but either way it's not going in natively, it's just going to be a PSD viewer app to browse some synced files. In other words mostly useless really.



    Yeah, but, again, people write to companies all the time with way worse sentiments than "you're lazy", with less justification, and without having said company (and as long as Nack is blogging at Adobe.com I think you have to take him as representative of the company) engaging in childish name calling. The OP didn't call Nack lazy, he called Adobe lazy, and Nack repsonded by making it personal. It just makes me wonder what's going on over at Adobe that they tolerate someone operating under their flag indulging in this sort of thing. I don't think "blogging" somehow magically erases the rules of decorum, in this instance.



    Quote:

    It seems that way, every Engadget article about Froyo has comments saying "Suck it Steve" but it's just dumb. The whole reason Apple took their stance was because, as you say, to date Flash has not been demonstrated to work well on mobile devices. For Adobe to come out 3 years after the iPhone launch and say 'look there's Flash running well on a mobile device' is pathetic and only proves the point more. Plus it still doesn't run all that well and for those 3 years, HTML animations have worked just fine.



    Exactly, that's the part I don't get. Adobe is getting increasingly shrill and belligerent about this stuff, but they don't really have a leg to stand on. It would be one thing if Apple had just gone overtly insane and started bashing Adobe for no real reason, but that absolutely is not what has happened. From the way they carry on you'd think that Flash had been running comfortably on a wide range of mobile devices for the last three years.
  • Reply 12 of 13
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,664member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I'll grant you that they do need to torque up a few screws over there, but I really do doubt that telling unhappy customers to go f-themselves has become company policy. Or maybe I'm just amusing myself with the delusion.



    Yes, but I find it sort of mesmerizing to imagine that they've gone completely off the rails. I know I'm complaining about all this, but it would actually be sort of awesome if the brass at Adobe just took to screaming "Fuck You!" any time anyone questioned anything they did. They could be the twitchy lunatic of big software companies, with their customer service responses limited to things like "Asshole!", "Loser!", and "How did you even figure out how to turn your computer on?"
  • Reply 13 of 13
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Microsoft has been doing this for years (in a more figurative sense) and look where that's gotten them.
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