You are moron and a sycophant. You have no basis in what you are saying, just lies and provocation. Check out your gap clothes and nike shoes to see the real sweatshop manufacturers. FYI also, apple is the only manufacturer conducting research on foxconn for the suicide rate, sony, and all the other big dogs who manufacture there didn't give a damn. But low blows is the only route that's left for you guys, seeing as attacking the product on a merit basis is impossible. How utterly sad.
You may wish to look up the definition of "sycophant" before you use it again. It will save you some embarrassment.
And for the record, I never said Apple, through Foxconn employed child labor. I simply wondered how the woman would feel if they did and there was photographic evidence.
As a teacher in Florida have actually met and worked with Andrea Barr several times. She is a wonderful person and not the cynical person some seem to think she is. Also, I have shown my iPad to my first graders and I can tell you that none have looked for porn. I have also shown it to fifth graders at my school and none have looked for porn. They certainly look for games but kids are not the porn searching maniacs that some seem to think they are.
Education apps on the iPad will have the same challenges that education apps on the desktop suffer. Students are usually interested in getting to the game section and staying there. A lot of this is bad design. Hopefully the iPad gets programmers who actually understand how learning takes place and make educational content and not just games with some educational content added in for fluff.
in 5th grade, we just had paper books. Now, they have modern marvels to access porn, movies and games, and facebook in the classroom. progress? why would kids need it?
only if they are allowed to use them in class without supervision. same at home.
Parents want to say what their kids are exposed to, then they have to control it. don't let them on the computer, watch tv, hang out at the public library etc unattended. simple as that
Third, there's no way to keep these kids on-topic in class if they have one. Perhaps they could make an "iPad-Educational Edition" so that there is some regulation to who kids use the device once in class? I don't know, just seems like it would be a distraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
What they really need to do is make a dumb-down version for school use only, and have the schools provide them in class and are stored in class. That's just one idea, i'm sure the Apple Genius' are coming up with options for that.
I do not normally do this, but I hope you are not influential enough to become a member of thee school board of your community. The key to discovery is a sense of wonder... to be excited of something... of discovering something new... something unexpected...
To dumb down a device is the worst that one can do... to quench the thirst of the young mind.
I am very glad my parents never prevented me from my own journey to discovery, of my surrounding and into myself. I played when I wanted to, I even daydreamed a lot when the fancy took me. At night, I was even allowed to go out (I never even asked permission) to the nearby plaza to mingle with people in our neighborhood, of all ages. Talked, played or debate whether the what we saw or heard. There was no curfew, but somehow, it seemed there was an unwritten rule when to go home.
I had a long story to share, but among the factors that made schooliong and education something that I coveted rather than a core included:
The supportive environment at home. I was never tutored (we were too poor) nor made to prepare before I went to school. My parents allowed me to do whatever my fancy quote me. I learned later when I was in grade school, that comics books banned, and confiscated. One of my religion teachers told me, it was a mortal sin to read comics.
Young as I was, what came to mind when I heard that was: How can something be so sinful when it was a source of wonder and enjoyment for me. Through comics and illustrated books, I got introduced to other times and other places some of these places I later had a chance to visit when I was older.
My parents never banned me to read comics though. So, I learned to disobey what some elders told me, even if I was not capable of arguing at the time that what they considered sinful or would make me dumb was not true. In fact, when I was not yet able to understand letters and words, it was the comics and illustrated books that made me to dream and wonder. I knew the characters in each frame or page were saying someting or wanted to something, so I try to verbalize the words based on the related stories some of my Sisters shared during family hour. Some of them were great story tellers. Some of them, I tried to relate to the adventure moviews we saw. Tarzan, King Arthur and Camelot, the Knights, Jason and the Argonauts, Superman, Batman and Robin. Aladdin and all sorts of stories of ancient times. Aesops Tales. Disney classics. Ivanho, Lots of bible stories: In fact, I never read the bible in its entirety, but I had seen illustrated stories beginning from Adam and Eve, their sons Caine and Abel, Moses, David and Goliath. the life of Jesus, and more. This was augmented by movies about saints and others related to Christianity.
At some point, the letters in the conversation windows became words that I understood. Later on, I begun to understand the sentences in illustrated story books, inspired by the Bible.
Imagine, if the comic books and movies that were central to my informal education were banned when I was quite young and not yet in school -- as you proposed some features of the iPad should have been banned because they are "distracting", or some of the more conservative segments of our society considered polluting of the young mind.
By their example, and the trust my parents gave me, to be able to run free, discover the world that surrounded me, and have time to ponder who I am, made a great difference in my cest to learn, I was never lectured what was right and wrong but in a way their more "laissez-faire" guidance helped me discover and venture. They allowed me to make mistakes, and supported me during my triumphs or even when I stumbled.
Apart from the environment at home, I was lucky enough to have a good Grade 1 teacher, a veteran teacher. Learning became almost like the play of discovery and a competition to excel without having to destroy your classmates you compete with. You get a step up to the board everytime you get the correct answer. Math became exciting with these contests, and so were other Quizzes in other subjects. Imagine the feeling of being the first to reach the board. Or to get 100% for the lesson of the day.
The moral codeL of knowing what is right and wrong, that was first ingrained at home was further reinforced by my Grade 1 teacher. We were very poor at the time, but my teacher found a way to show by example, that one can be poor but not feel disadvantaged. I did not have any pocket money for example. However, to have my snack during the morning recess, like my other classmates, my teacher, deputized me, along with another classmate to fetch the snacks from the nearby bakery. It was a very simple gesture, but acts like that and many more, were impressed upon me, at such an early stage.
This just reinforced what was already a way of life at home: being poor is not equated with a life of misery or want.
My Grade 1 teacher must have enjoyed our class very much. Because of her seniority, she was able "to impose" to teach us for Grade 2, also, in the same. Her first and last. It was in Grade 3 when I realized that not all teachers were like my Grdes1 and 2 teacher. The lessons ingrained at home, and the tutelage from my Grade 1/2 teacher greatly fortified; the foundation for my cest to learn and discover.
My Grade 1/2 teacher still fought for us, what she considered her children (I learned later when I was older). Whenever she thought my Grade 3 teacher was being unfair, she would talk to her in private. And when she thought my teacher was unnecessarily unfair to me, she would make sure that she would report them to my Father. I never complained to my parents about them. I only would learn about it later. And when it was bad enough, my Father or my Mother would go to school to confront the teacher, via the Principal's Office. My parents were always deferential, of course, just to know the whole story. And the offending teacher would have to explain their action. Fortunately, such serious incidents requiring a meeting in the Principal's Office happened only four times while I was in grade school. All would end up to exoneration or vindication, in my favor. Fortunately, it was only Grades 3 and 4 with whom I encountered more serious problems.
The awareness that my parents and some of my teachers would fight for me, when they feel I am wronged was key in enjoying my schoold days.
As I look back, it is the environment at home and in school that made all the difference. Gadgets can help improve upon that environment, but they can never replace good home and supportive family and definitely not replace good teachers.
What we cannot do is "dumb down" these instructional tools, to curb the natural inclinations of children and young people.
To relate this to the discussion here, the iPads and related gadgets must be viewed as that, as devices to help in education -- not to replace a good teacher. The iPad and similar devices must not be viewed simply as a way to lessen the weight of books that students had to carry. Or, as a means to rake in profit by book publishers, or to sell more gadgets.
Just like my Grade 1 teacher and what was encouraged at home, the school must use the natural inclination young people to be part of the learning process. Play and Games, even electronic games can be catalysts to learning math, rules of physics and chemistry. Creative games may be used also to learn basic social skills and the structure of society.
With the resources that could be accessed through devices like the iPad, both the students and the teachers can learn and discover worlds we never had a chance to experience or dream of during our own school days, These would require rethinking of how information must be presented to students, and how they consume them. For example, when I first encountered the power of computers to store and access information, I decided that I shall not focus in memorizing information as the foundation of my education and learning. That approach was more suited in the ancient times, when books as repository of information were rare.
Unfortunately, the memorizing and instant recall of information remain the foundation of evaluting students.
Today, we are confronted with the issue of too much information. It is more important to learn to have the capability to decipher what is true or correct, to understand the distinction between a perspective as opposed to something factual. This may require closer scrutiny of the source of information, and why or how they arrived at a set of "conclusions" from a mountain of usually contradictory information.
One common mistake of quite a few people, for example, is the notion that if it published, or God forbid, what exist in the internet, must be true or factual, especially if it conforms to their view of events or the world around them.
History for example by nature is limited by the remaining artifacts and documents, and further restricted by the point of view of the historian documenting the story. There is a saying that "The winer names the age." Or, the implied reality that the story of the vanquished is not likely to prevail.
This is also true of recent events. Do we really think that Israelis and Turks and the relatives of Americans/Westerners have the same POV as to what happened in the recent boarding by Israelis of the ship bound to Gaza. [Please do not attempt to discuss the "5Ws and the How" of the incident here.] There surely was one series of events that transpired, but it is unlikely that a truly objective story may ever be told -- because of historical polization of views based from so many sequential events, many before our time. In the case of the Middle East, some of these go back to biblical times.
Without these realization, about the limits of information, no amount of gadgetry, like the iPad can lead us to learn - unless we learn the art of civil discourse, and even if after that, the capability to learn to co-exist in spite of our differing perspectives.
You may wish to look up the definition of "sycophant" before you use it again. It will save you some embarrassment.
And for the record, I never said Apple, through Foxconn employed child labor. I simply wondered how the woman would feel if they did and there was photographic evidence.
-kpluck
I don't need to look it up, because I am of greek origin, and the word is greek, and unlike you I not only know its meaning, I also know how it came about, and the two words that make it up.
Ah, you wondered how that woman would feel, IF apple employed child labour, and IF they there was photographic evidence of it, how precious.
I also wonder IF you were a pedophile how you would feel IF there were photographic evidence of it.
Very very cute, you really can see how excited the kids are. On an advertising shoot, it would take all day and skilled child models to capture something these folks serendipitously caught on a regular school day. Too bad one kid's not really visible though. :-)
i've been posting about the educational value of the iPad for months prior to the launch. I'm pleased to see Apple is doing something good with this device (finally) instead of just marketing it to the entertainment industry.
The only things about this that kind of chaps my butt are...
First, it's too expensive for school kids. At $500, minimum, plus the cost of school books and supplies? This should be a device for the masses. Less expensive, adaptable to any book format, etc.. Just not practical, unless...
Second, it's not a standalone device. If it were, i could totally see this as a K-12 computer replacement (that could be subsidized). Kids really don't need a computer. The iPad has all the productivity tools they need to handle school.
Third, there's no way to keep these kids on-topic in class if they have one. Perhaps they could make an "iPad-Educational Edition" so that there is some regulation to who kids use the device once in class? I don't know, just seems like it would be a distraction.
What they really need to do is make a dumb-down version for school use only, and have the schools provide them in class and are stored in class. That's just one idea, i'm sure the Apple Genius' are coming up with options for that.
Actually, what they could do is just get a Kindle. That really has everything they would need for educational purposes.
Gee, let's check how stand-alone it is. Picture a cart with 30 of these racked, UBS cables running to multi-port hubs all attached to a single computer, with iPad imaging software on it. The iPads are interface-restricted for the student's use, and can be instantly re-imaged at the cart by the computer. Each iPad has the required apps installed and is ready to use by the students for language arts, math, social studies, astronomy, history, etc. An app is installed for printing to the local wireless printer (already in the App Store btw), internet restrictions in place. In short a completely managed system operating from a central hub. Each one can have iWork functional apps as well for content creation, music creation apps, well the list goes on and on. Each one can be linked to a bluetooth keyboard, or to a bluetooth headset for private listening to lessons (for example).
This sort of arrangement btw has already been managed in a number of school systems using the iPod Touch. The interface was just made stronger and more functional in the iPad. Very low technology management requirements, cases to protect the devices if needed. That's it. Not only fully functional for classroom use, but content creation capable, easily managed (you can even do image distros direct to the hub computers across an entire school system). The problem for many school systems is the management of the computers they have. This simplifies it considerably.
Now we know of course that Apple offers fairly attractive terms for education use of their devices - so your cost issue is a non-starter.
Look buddy, the ipad is a novelty product, that most pundits predicted to be a marginal failure (and the rest just didn't understand its purpose, or claimed there was no purpose to it), yet it's selling like crazy, and people keep discovering different uses and potential for it everyday.
It's funny how most people who profess they are above marketing and reprimand others for taking the the apple bait, are they themselves far more misinformed. If these forums make you vomit, you might as well p. off, no reason for us cleaning up your mess now is there? "Independent thought" and "critical thinking" is defined as per agreeing to what you are saying of course. How ridiculous: that's my opinion, and any one who shares it is an independent thinker.
Some of you guys just can't stomach this can you, how apple brought on a product that is visionary, that NO ONE in the tec world was prepared to equal it or bring something with comparable functionality, and instead of it failing in an adverse financial market, it's a runaway success. Bitterness and envy ensue of course...
Excuse me, but might I suggest that it's perfectly possible to post in this forum without sounding like an iAd? The marketting spin would like you to believe you are holding a magical and revolutionary device, yet those of us who can see through the hype can see that the iPad is nothing more than a more convenient to use iPhone/iPod touch. The iPad can browse the net, do email, view pictures, watch video, play music and run apps, all absolutely identical functionality to the iPhone/iPod Touch, just at a more convenient size for consumption. It's evolutionary at best. And I should know, I own an iPad.
I don't need to look it up, because I am of greek origin, and the word is greek, and unlike you I not only know its meaning, I also know how it came about, and the two words that make it up.
Ah, you wondered how that woman would feel, IF apple employed child labour, and IF they there was photographic evidence of it, how precious.
I also wonder IF you were a pedophile how you would feel IF there were photographic evidence of it.
you are a f. joke..
Hey people,
We all like a spirited discussion here, but let's try and keep it civil. No need to start a flame war over this. You can use the Ignore function!
Very very cute, you really can see how excited the kids are. On an advertising shoot, it would take all day and skilled child models to capture something these folks serendipitously caught on a regular school day. Too bad one kid's not really visible though. :-)
Sure they are, it's a $5-800 device. There are not many of them in the ghetto.
It is possible to mix 'genuine' and 'advertising' but a fair amount of cynicism is a natural reaction. Genuine joy, genuine pleasure, genuine love can genuinely be manipulated to pass a genuine message to sell a genuinely great product in order to honestly and fairly and genuinely make shedloads of money. By the time it has come to the moneymaking bit the meaning of aforementioned the genuine love, joy, happiness etc, has become meaningless, however.
This is not meant to be a personal attack because I think, in fact, that the attitude you display in your post is shared by a lot of people nowadays and, at times, I'm guilty of it as well .... I just think it's kinda sad when, while rushing to be pissed off at the rain, we forget to look for the rainbow. \
Everything posted here has been rather tame compared to some of the truly ignorant and blatantly bigoted remarks posted with the original newspaper article. It would sadly appear, to me at least, that divisive and just plain ugly remarks still rule the day in much of the US.
As a teacher in Florida have actually met and worked with Andrea Barr several times. She is a wonderful person and not the cynical person some seem to think she is. Also, I have shown my iPad to my first graders and I can tell you that none have looked for porn. I have also shown it to fifth graders at my school and none have looked for porn. They certainly look for games but kids are not the porn searching maniacs that some seem to think they are.
Education apps on the iPad will have the same challenges that education apps on the desktop suffer. Students are usually interested in getting to the game section and staying there. A lot of this is bad design. Hopefully the iPad gets programmers who actually understand how learning takes place and make educational content and not just games with some educational content added in for fluff.
Eh - don't say "porn" 3 times in one post. The spam catcher thought your post was spam.
We all like a spirited discussion here, but let's try and keep it civil. No need to start a flame war over this. You can use the Ignore function!
I am sorry, I try to use the ignore function, but it's not as easy as it once was with the techstud clones, I can retrospectively use it, but not predict its use.
I did not try to incite a flame war, but it's infuriating when someone says apple employ ten year olds in sweatshops, then tries to pass it off as, oh, well I said, what IF apple employed ten year olds, that's libel of the worst kind, and slander.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester
Excuse me, but might I suggest that it's perfectly possible to post in this forum without sounding like an iAd? The marketting spin would like you to believe you are holding a magical and revolutionary device, yet those of us who can see through the hype can see that the iPad is nothing more than a more convenient to use iPhone/iPod touch. The iPad can browse the net, do email, view pictures, watch video, play music and run apps, all absolutely identical functionality to the iPhone/iPod Touch, just at a more convenient size for consumption. It's evolutionary at best. And I should know, I own an iPad.
Can you actually tell me the points where you disagree without labelling me? I read a lot of righteous indignation here, because apple has the "gall" to use a genuine photo of children excited over the ipad, whilst the competition is employing actors in naturalistic ads and tries to pass them off as real people.
Something being evolutionary, doesn't mean it's not visionary. All things evolve from others they are not born in vacuum, but that doesn't mean there isn't a vision there.
And let me put it another way, if apple's product isn't visionary and is just a mere evolution of existing tec that anyone would have come up with, then tell me, a. how many pundits predicted that it would be a failure and didn't see the need or the purpose of it (hint, hundreds to thousands) b. how come the competition doesn't even have anything even close to it on the market, except for some poorly implemented niche products?
If apple were merely bringing something so common to market, how come no one else got off their asses to get something similar in? The answer is that the ipad is indeed a paradigm shift in computing in so many respects, the form factor (at last the web can be held like a magazine in our hands), the augmented touch interface, the simplicity and fool proof-ness of the os, the ease of use, the number of uses and situations it can serve, etc. etc.
It's not the holy effing grail, but then what is? It's a device that apple had the vision and conviction to bring to market well ahead of everyone and carve a market out of nothing.
If apple were merely bringing something so common to market, how come no one else got off their asses to get something similar in? The answer is that the ipad is indeed a paradigm shift in computing in so many respects, the form factor (at last the web can be held like a magazine in our hands), the augmented touch interface, the simplicity and fool proof-ness of the os, the ease of use, the number of uses and situations it can serve, etc. etc.
All of those things apply to the iPhone and iPod Touch too. The iPad is just a bigger version of those, hence it is evolutionary. It takes what the iPhone and iPod Touch already do, and makes them better by having a larger screen. The revolution happened when the iPhone first appeared. This is evolution now.
Comments
You are moron and a sycophant. You have no basis in what you are saying, just lies and provocation. Check out your gap clothes and nike shoes to see the real sweatshop manufacturers. FYI also, apple is the only manufacturer conducting research on foxconn for the suicide rate, sony, and all the other big dogs who manufacture there didn't give a damn. But low blows is the only route that's left for you guys, seeing as attacking the product on a merit basis is impossible. How utterly sad.
You may wish to look up the definition of "sycophant" before you use it again. It will save you some embarrassment.
And for the record, I never said Apple, through Foxconn employed child labor. I simply wondered how the woman would feel if they did and there was photographic evidence.
-kpluck
Education apps on the iPad will have the same challenges that education apps on the desktop suffer. Students are usually interested in getting to the game section and staying there. A lot of this is bad design. Hopefully the iPad gets programmers who actually understand how learning takes place and make educational content and not just games with some educational content added in for fluff.
in 5th grade, we just had paper books. Now, they have modern marvels to access porn, movies and games, and facebook in the classroom. progress? why would kids need it?
only if they are allowed to use them in class without supervision. same at home.
Parents want to say what their kids are exposed to, then they have to control it. don't let them on the computer, watch tv, hang out at the public library etc unattended. simple as that
Third, there's no way to keep these kids on-topic in class if they have one. Perhaps they could make an "iPad-Educational Edition" so that there is some regulation to who kids use the device once in class? I don't know, just seems like it would be a distraction.
What they really need to do is make a dumb-down version for school use only, and have the schools provide them in class and are stored in class. That's just one idea, i'm sure the Apple Genius' are coming up with options for that.
I do not normally do this, but I hope you are not influential enough to become a member of thee school board of your community. The key to discovery is a sense of wonder... to be excited of something... of discovering something new... something unexpected...
To dumb down a device is the worst that one can do... to quench the thirst of the young mind.
I am very glad my parents never prevented me from my own journey to discovery, of my surrounding and into myself. I played when I wanted to, I even daydreamed a lot when the fancy took me. At night, I was even allowed to go out (I never even asked permission) to the nearby plaza to mingle with people in our neighborhood, of all ages. Talked, played or debate whether the what we saw or heard. There was no curfew, but somehow, it seemed there was an unwritten rule when to go home.
I had a long story to share, but among the factors that made schooliong and education something that I coveted rather than a core included:
The supportive environment at home. I was never tutored (we were too poor) nor made to prepare before I went to school. My parents allowed me to do whatever my fancy quote me. I learned later when I was in grade school, that comics books banned, and confiscated. One of my religion teachers told me, it was a mortal sin to read comics.
Young as I was, what came to mind when I heard that was: How can something be so sinful when it was a source of wonder and enjoyment for me. Through comics and illustrated books, I got introduced to other times and other places some of these places I later had a chance to visit when I was older.
My parents never banned me to read comics though. So, I learned to disobey what some elders told me, even if I was not capable of arguing at the time that what they considered sinful or would make me dumb was not true. In fact, when I was not yet able to understand letters and words, it was the comics and illustrated books that made me to dream and wonder. I knew the characters in each frame or page were saying someting or wanted to something, so I try to verbalize the words based on the related stories some of my Sisters shared during family hour. Some of them were great story tellers. Some of them, I tried to relate to the adventure moviews we saw. Tarzan, King Arthur and Camelot, the Knights, Jason and the Argonauts, Superman, Batman and Robin. Aladdin and all sorts of stories of ancient times. Aesops Tales. Disney classics. Ivanho, Lots of bible stories: In fact, I never read the bible in its entirety, but I had seen illustrated stories beginning from Adam and Eve, their sons Caine and Abel, Moses, David and Goliath. the life of Jesus, and more. This was augmented by movies about saints and others related to Christianity.
At some point, the letters in the conversation windows became words that I understood. Later on, I begun to understand the sentences in illustrated story books, inspired by the Bible.
Imagine, if the comic books and movies that were central to my informal education were banned when I was quite young and not yet in school -- as you proposed some features of the iPad should have been banned because they are "distracting", or some of the more conservative segments of our society considered polluting of the young mind.
By their example, and the trust my parents gave me, to be able to run free, discover the world that surrounded me, and have time to ponder who I am, made a great difference in my cest to learn, I was never lectured what was right and wrong but in a way their more "laissez-faire" guidance helped me discover and venture. They allowed me to make mistakes, and supported me during my triumphs or even when I stumbled.
Apart from the environment at home, I was lucky enough to have a good Grade 1 teacher, a veteran teacher. Learning became almost like the play of discovery and a competition to excel without having to destroy your classmates you compete with. You get a step up to the board everytime you get the correct answer. Math became exciting with these contests, and so were other Quizzes in other subjects. Imagine the feeling of being the first to reach the board. Or to get 100% for the lesson of the day.
The moral codeL of knowing what is right and wrong, that was first ingrained at home was further reinforced by my Grade 1 teacher. We were very poor at the time, but my teacher found a way to show by example, that one can be poor but not feel disadvantaged. I did not have any pocket money for example. However, to have my snack during the morning recess, like my other classmates, my teacher, deputized me, along with another classmate to fetch the snacks from the nearby bakery. It was a very simple gesture, but acts like that and many more, were impressed upon me, at such an early stage.
This just reinforced what was already a way of life at home: being poor is not equated with a life of misery or want.
My Grade 1 teacher must have enjoyed our class very much. Because of her seniority, she was able "to impose" to teach us for Grade 2, also, in the same. Her first and last. It was in Grade 3 when I realized that not all teachers were like my Grdes1 and 2 teacher. The lessons ingrained at home, and the tutelage from my Grade 1/2 teacher greatly fortified; the foundation for my cest to learn and discover.
My Grade 1/2 teacher still fought for us, what she considered her children (I learned later when I was older). Whenever she thought my Grade 3 teacher was being unfair, she would talk to her in private. And when she thought my teacher was unnecessarily unfair to me, she would make sure that she would report them to my Father. I never complained to my parents about them. I only would learn about it later. And when it was bad enough, my Father or my Mother would go to school to confront the teacher, via the Principal's Office. My parents were always deferential, of course, just to know the whole story. And the offending teacher would have to explain their action. Fortunately, such serious incidents requiring a meeting in the Principal's Office happened only four times while I was in grade school. All would end up to exoneration or vindication, in my favor. Fortunately, it was only Grades 3 and 4 with whom I encountered more serious problems.
The awareness that my parents and some of my teachers would fight for me, when they feel I am wronged was key in enjoying my schoold days.
As I look back, it is the environment at home and in school that made all the difference. Gadgets can help improve upon that environment, but they can never replace good home and supportive family and definitely not replace good teachers.
What we cannot do is "dumb down" these instructional tools, to curb the natural inclinations of children and young people.
To relate this to the discussion here, the iPads and related gadgets must be viewed as that, as devices to help in education -- not to replace a good teacher. The iPad and similar devices must not be viewed simply as a way to lessen the weight of books that students had to carry. Or, as a means to rake in profit by book publishers, or to sell more gadgets.
Just like my Grade 1 teacher and what was encouraged at home, the school must use the natural inclination young people to be part of the learning process. Play and Games, even electronic games can be catalysts to learning math, rules of physics and chemistry. Creative games may be used also to learn basic social skills and the structure of society.
With the resources that could be accessed through devices like the iPad, both the students and the teachers can learn and discover worlds we never had a chance to experience or dream of during our own school days, These would require rethinking of how information must be presented to students, and how they consume them. For example, when I first encountered the power of computers to store and access information, I decided that I shall not focus in memorizing information as the foundation of my education and learning. That approach was more suited in the ancient times, when books as repository of information were rare.
Unfortunately, the memorizing and instant recall of information remain the foundation of evaluting students.
Today, we are confronted with the issue of too much information. It is more important to learn to have the capability to decipher what is true or correct, to understand the distinction between a perspective as opposed to something factual. This may require closer scrutiny of the source of information, and why or how they arrived at a set of "conclusions" from a mountain of usually contradictory information.
One common mistake of quite a few people, for example, is the notion that if it published, or God forbid, what exist in the internet, must be true or factual, especially if it conforms to their view of events or the world around them.
History for example by nature is limited by the remaining artifacts and documents, and further restricted by the point of view of the historian documenting the story. There is a saying that "The winer names the age." Or, the implied reality that the story of the vanquished is not likely to prevail.
This is also true of recent events. Do we really think that Israelis and Turks and the relatives of Americans/Westerners have the same POV as to what happened in the recent boarding by Israelis of the ship bound to Gaza. [Please do not attempt to discuss the "5Ws and the How" of the incident here.] There surely was one series of events that transpired, but it is unlikely that a truly objective story may ever be told -- because of historical polization of views based from so many sequential events, many before our time. In the case of the Middle East, some of these go back to biblical times.
Without these realization, about the limits of information, no amount of gadgetry, like the iPad can lead us to learn - unless we learn the art of civil discourse, and even if after that, the capability to learn to co-exist in spite of our differing perspectives.
CGC
You may wish to look up the definition of "sycophant" before you use it again. It will save you some embarrassment.
And for the record, I never said Apple, through Foxconn employed child labor. I simply wondered how the woman would feel if they did and there was photographic evidence.
-kpluck
I don't need to look it up, because I am of greek origin, and the word is greek, and unlike you I not only know its meaning, I also know how it came about, and the two words that make it up.
Ah, you wondered how that woman would feel, IF apple employed child labour, and IF they there was photographic evidence of it, how precious.
I also wonder IF you were a pedophile how you would feel IF there were photographic evidence of it.
you are a f. joke..
Very very cute, you really can see how excited the kids are. On an advertising shoot, it would take all day and skilled child models to capture something these folks serendipitously caught on a regular school day. Too bad one kid's not really visible though. :-)
i've been posting about the educational value of the iPad for months prior to the launch. I'm pleased to see Apple is doing something good with this device (finally) instead of just marketing it to the entertainment industry.
The only things about this that kind of chaps my butt are...
First, it's too expensive for school kids. At $500, minimum, plus the cost of school books and supplies? This should be a device for the masses. Less expensive, adaptable to any book format, etc.. Just not practical, unless...
Second, it's not a standalone device. If it were, i could totally see this as a K-12 computer replacement (that could be subsidized). Kids really don't need a computer. The iPad has all the productivity tools they need to handle school.
Third, there's no way to keep these kids on-topic in class if they have one. Perhaps they could make an "iPad-Educational Edition" so that there is some regulation to who kids use the device once in class? I don't know, just seems like it would be a distraction.
What they really need to do is make a dumb-down version for school use only, and have the schools provide them in class and are stored in class. That's just one idea, i'm sure the Apple Genius' are coming up with options for that.
Actually, what they could do is just get a Kindle. That really has everything they would need for educational purposes.
Gee, let's check how stand-alone it is. Picture a cart with 30 of these racked, UBS cables running to multi-port hubs all attached to a single computer, with iPad imaging software on it. The iPads are interface-restricted for the student's use, and can be instantly re-imaged at the cart by the computer. Each iPad has the required apps installed and is ready to use by the students for language arts, math, social studies, astronomy, history, etc. An app is installed for printing to the local wireless printer (already in the App Store btw), internet restrictions in place. In short a completely managed system operating from a central hub. Each one can have iWork functional apps as well for content creation, music creation apps, well the list goes on and on. Each one can be linked to a bluetooth keyboard, or to a bluetooth headset for private listening to lessons (for example).
This sort of arrangement btw has already been managed in a number of school systems using the iPod Touch. The interface was just made stronger and more functional in the iPad. Very low technology management requirements, cases to protect the devices if needed. That's it. Not only fully functional for classroom use, but content creation capable, easily managed (you can even do image distros direct to the hub computers across an entire school system). The problem for many school systems is the management of the computers they have. This simplifies it considerably.
Now we know of course that Apple offers fairly attractive terms for education use of their devices - so your cost issue is a non-starter.
Look buddy, the ipad is a novelty product, that most pundits predicted to be a marginal failure (and the rest just didn't understand its purpose, or claimed there was no purpose to it), yet it's selling like crazy, and people keep discovering different uses and potential for it everyday.
It's funny how most people who profess they are above marketing and reprimand others for taking the the apple bait, are they themselves far more misinformed. If these forums make you vomit, you might as well p. off, no reason for us cleaning up your mess now is there? "Independent thought" and "critical thinking" is defined as per agreeing to what you are saying of course. How ridiculous: that's my opinion, and any one who shares it is an independent thinker.
Some of you guys just can't stomach this can you, how apple brought on a product that is visionary, that NO ONE in the tec world was prepared to equal it or bring something with comparable functionality, and instead of it failing in an adverse financial market, it's a runaway success. Bitterness and envy ensue of course...
Excuse me, but might I suggest that it's perfectly possible to post in this forum without sounding like an iAd? The marketting spin would like you to believe you are holding a magical and revolutionary device, yet those of us who can see through the hype can see that the iPad is nothing more than a more convenient to use iPhone/iPod touch. The iPad can browse the net, do email, view pictures, watch video, play music and run apps, all absolutely identical functionality to the iPhone/iPod Touch, just at a more convenient size for consumption. It's evolutionary at best. And I should know, I own an iPad.
I don't need to look it up, because I am of greek origin, and the word is greek, and unlike you I not only know its meaning, I also know how it came about, and the two words that make it up.
Ah, you wondered how that woman would feel, IF apple employed child labour, and IF they there was photographic evidence of it, how precious.
I also wonder IF you were a pedophile how you would feel IF there were photographic evidence of it.
you are a f. joke..
Hey people,
We all like a spirited discussion here, but let's try and keep it civil. No need to start a flame war over this. You can use the Ignore function!
http://tampabaytimes.fl.newsmemory.c...reid=1cbdde05c
Very very cute, you really can see how excited the kids are. On an advertising shoot, it would take all day and skilled child models to capture something these folks serendipitously caught on a regular school day. Too bad one kid's not really visible though. :-)
Sure they are, it's a $5-800 device. There are not many of them in the ghetto.
It is possible to mix 'genuine' and 'advertising' but a fair amount of cynicism is a natural reaction. Genuine joy, genuine pleasure, genuine love can genuinely be manipulated to pass a genuine message to sell a genuinely great product in order to honestly and fairly and genuinely make shedloads of money. By the time it has come to the moneymaking bit the meaning of aforementioned the genuine love, joy, happiness etc, has become meaningless, however.
This is not meant to be a personal attack because I think, in fact, that the attitude you display in your post is shared by a lot of people nowadays and, at times, I'm guilty of it as well .... I just think it's kinda sad when, while rushing to be pissed off at the rain, we forget to look for the rainbow.
It's evolutionary at best. And I should know, I own an iPad.
This is a direct quote from you (post #20): (bold emphasis is mine)
"Some people succumb *so* easily to the marketting that you've got to wonder if they posses any trace of independent thought and critical thinking."
Sorry to hear you lost all trace of independent thought and critical thinking.
As a teacher in Florida have actually met and worked with Andrea Barr several times. She is a wonderful person and not the cynical person some seem to think she is. Also, I have shown my iPad to my first graders and I can tell you that none have looked for porn. I have also shown it to fifth graders at my school and none have looked for porn. They certainly look for games but kids are not the porn searching maniacs that some seem to think they are.
Education apps on the iPad will have the same challenges that education apps on the desktop suffer. Students are usually interested in getting to the game section and staying there. A lot of this is bad design. Hopefully the iPad gets programmers who actually understand how learning takes place and make educational content and not just games with some educational content added in for fluff.
Eh - don't say "porn" 3 times in one post. The spam catcher thought your post was spam.
Porn? On an iPad? I thought all porn sites delivered their content in Flash these days..
shit, I've been watching porn on my iPhone for years. The smart sites delivered flash alternatives at launch.
Hey people,
We all like a spirited discussion here, but let's try and keep it civil. No need to start a flame war over this. You can use the Ignore function!
I am sorry, I try to use the ignore function, but it's not as easy as it once was with the techstud clones, I can retrospectively use it, but not predict its use.
I did not try to incite a flame war, but it's infuriating when someone says apple employ ten year olds in sweatshops, then tries to pass it off as, oh, well I said, what IF apple employed ten year olds, that's libel of the worst kind, and slander.
Excuse me, but might I suggest that it's perfectly possible to post in this forum without sounding like an iAd? The marketting spin would like you to believe you are holding a magical and revolutionary device, yet those of us who can see through the hype can see that the iPad is nothing more than a more convenient to use iPhone/iPod touch. The iPad can browse the net, do email, view pictures, watch video, play music and run apps, all absolutely identical functionality to the iPhone/iPod Touch, just at a more convenient size for consumption. It's evolutionary at best. And I should know, I own an iPad.
Can you actually tell me the points where you disagree without labelling me? I read a lot of righteous indignation here, because apple has the "gall" to use a genuine photo of children excited over the ipad, whilst the competition is employing actors in naturalistic ads and tries to pass them off as real people.
Something being evolutionary, doesn't mean it's not visionary. All things evolve from others they are not born in vacuum, but that doesn't mean there isn't a vision there.
And let me put it another way, if apple's product isn't visionary and is just a mere evolution of existing tec that anyone would have come up with, then tell me, a. how many pundits predicted that it would be a failure and didn't see the need or the purpose of it (hint, hundreds to thousands) b. how come the competition doesn't even have anything even close to it on the market, except for some poorly implemented niche products?
If apple were merely bringing something so common to market, how come no one else got off their asses to get something similar in? The answer is that the ipad is indeed a paradigm shift in computing in so many respects, the form factor (at last the web can be held like a magazine in our hands), the augmented touch interface, the simplicity and fool proof-ness of the os, the ease of use, the number of uses and situations it can serve, etc. etc.
It's not the holy effing grail, but then what is? It's a device that apple had the vision and conviction to bring to market well ahead of everyone and carve a market out of nothing.
If apple were merely bringing something so common to market, how come no one else got off their asses to get something similar in? The answer is that the ipad is indeed a paradigm shift in computing in so many respects, the form factor (at last the web can be held like a magazine in our hands), the augmented touch interface, the simplicity and fool proof-ness of the os, the ease of use, the number of uses and situations it can serve, etc. etc.
All of those things apply to the iPhone and iPod Touch too. The iPad is just a bigger version of those, hence it is evolutionary. It takes what the iPhone and iPod Touch already do, and makes them better by having a larger screen. The revolution happened when the iPhone first appeared. This is evolution now.