It's gonna be fun for the next few days/weeks. They will predict it to fail, like they did the iPad and the MBA, then won't have anything to say when sales go through the roof.
I wanna know how much RAM it has. With the larger display, I don't want the iPhone 4 having page caching issues in Safari like the iPad with only 256MB RAM.
The RAM is intrinsic in the A4 processor, so it will have the same 256MB as the iPad.
>> I think they REALLY need a portable storage system that connects to the dock port or something. Here's the real kicker -- how many MINUTES of HD video are you really going to edit with a max of 32G? Maybe 15?
Storage space is as important to video editing as a good antenna and battery life are to a phone. So I'd even go with a thicker phone myself, if it went up to 128G. Everything else about these seems to be a great balance of performance vs. usability - but yes, the storage size is really a problem when you consider the new HD features and video editing.
I think this is where 'cloud' storage will come into play.
That 2GB limit is typically a limit of the underlying file system. That won't be an issue on an iPhone.
The 2 Gig limit is not going to be an issue. They MIGHT break files up to under 2 gigs -- but a Quicktime is able to stitch together multiple clips -- so you would probably have a folder that LOOKS like on video in that case -- but not likely.
I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.
First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.
The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.
Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.
I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.
That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".
What I'm surprised at is that they don't have a private WiFi station there just for the demos.
They DO, but the spectrum was so crowded nobody could get good signals. The WiFi standards weren't intended to deal with so many base stations. That many clients works (after a fashion), but it falls down with that many base stations.
6 axis are X, Y, Z and rotation around X, Y and Z. This is the same nomenclature as Sony uses for PS3 and Nintendo for the Wii.
I'm sure that ALL marketing-speak is consistently going to use XYZ axis and XYZ rotation as 6-degrees of motion.
Now, engineers might want a gyro for every direction,.. but this thing should be pretty accurate as they've got the motion sensor, GPS, cell phone triangulation using the two antennas and a video camera to provide additional refinements.
So in practical terms -- a developer should be able to combine all that information and extrapolate something that a surveyor could use. If you were using this to direct a laser aimed at the moon - then it might be a bit of a reach.
What application is someone thinking of that the iPhone could NOT be used for with 3 gyros and everything else? You definitely could pilot the space shuttle.
That does come to mind -- sure. But you'd need a super fast video compressor-decompressor and lose a lot of quality to MASTER video in 17 Gigs.
Apple's Intermediate CODEC is good for editing video. But more or less, I'd say that in REAL WORLD terms, you need about 3X the storage space of the Time of the video on a FINAL HD CODEC. When you layer graphics you've got the source, and then you've got the rendering of the layers in a much less compressed codec.
On top of that, you MIGHT be doing something more than just video editing. My 16 Gig iPod Touch is full to the brim, and that's without ANY video editing going on. So maybe I slim it down to 8 Gigs, and then add all the newer LARGER apps that will be designed for the new HD platform...
... So, by my rough estimate -- a REAL HD video will require about a Gig a Minute -- but for people doing that home movie who can't tell a compressed SD from an HD signal -- maybe they can do an hour with 18 Gigs of free space.
Not at all. Most 720 video for a 2 hour movie posted online is about 4 GB give or take, withy many using far less (1-2 GB) while retaining excellent quality. H.264 is actually quite efficient when it comes to quality at lower bitrates. I think you are FAR overestimating the space required if you think it will take a GB a minute. The iPhone already has hardware acceleration for h.264. It will have hardware encoding as well (it may already in the 3GS, although I haven't checked the specs).
I would imagine it will probably be in the area of 2500 - 5000 Kbps or so for 720P video. Standard DVD's top out at 9800 Kbps max rate (dual layer 8GB).
I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.
(Disclaimer: this person could easily have been blowing smoke up my a$$)
I went after lunch with my co-worker to replace her lost phone at a local T-Mobile store and the subject of the new iPhone came up. He looked at me confused and said something like "what, they made the announcement?" When pressed he said that T-Mobile would be getting the iPhone by the end of the month. When I asked him if there would be any other carriers he said "Yes, Verizon"
Don't know that I believe him, just writing what he said.
That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".
Well, actually they do have a patent for tracking the eyes and showing you a composite in 3d of you with your background.
He might also be referring to how they enhance and reflect light,...
... but yes, likely he pulled this out of his rear because it sounds good.
OK, I get to be the seal that jumped in the shark tank.
For me, nothing compelling. Even the wireless N is only on 2.4GHz.
Shoot, how long has Apple been putting 5GHz in even their cheapest computers?
Kinda like not putting USB 3.0 on the 17" iMac I got my wife a few months ago.
Great PC, but hardly cutting edge features.
This makes me very happy with the purchase of two 3GS iPhones this weekend (with unlimited data plans) as AT&T stores offer 30 day price guarantee - so only $99 each!
The screen is actually bigger, too. I really don't need a cell phone screen I have to enlarge with a projector to tell the improvement.
I don't need to video conference (which AT&T will never allow over their 3G anyway).
Isn't that what the Macbooks are for?
Not bad to have, but no big deal ether.
And I wonder if the iMovie app won't work with the 3GS when upgraded to iOS 4?
Any way, for me just not that much more.
OK, now to rip me a new one!
Thanks for reading
You'll be singing a different tune when you upgrade to iOS 4 and your phone slows down, while the rest of us are taking pictures with a flash, video, and enjoying the hot new glass case. Video chat will be a lot of fun for people with far off families. With as much as we spend on the service, saving $100 on the phone is very hard to justify. You save $100 and in return get worse experience every single day - would it be worth 30 cents per day over the course of a year? I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't be.
It appears the the sole reason for maintaining the small screen (by today's smartphone standards) was simply to maintain the display's aspect ratio, which has been achieved, even if it does make the phone look a bit dated.
You don't think that the concept of a phone that is "too large" vs one that is an appropriate but large size qualifies at least as a possible reason? Surely you don't really think the SOLE reason is the ratio?
Hard to believe but I don't have an iPhone yet, BUT I am on Verizon -
Can you buy the iOS 4 phone and not hook up with AT&T and then only use it on WiFi?
I know they would add mucho $ to the price. I like all the new features-5MP cam, HD video, etc. But, I don't need AT&T since my reception is bad anyway at my home.
I mean really, is everyone really so truly saddened by this stuff?
The professor you're replying to is truly saddened at SJ's comments, as if somehow the impending pop-culture explosion of his vision science field is thrown off track by the speech. And you are "honestly" saddened by this comments? Cmon people
The comments are incorrect. That's sad, wouldn't you say? From someone who supposedly understands these issues to make statements that he should know are misleading, at best, is sad to me.
To me, your last statement here is one of the understated advantages of the iPhone product line. Personally, when I do upgrade my iPhone 3GS I'll then feel pretty good about handing it down to my 4 year old to have as his one iPod Touch. I have a couple games on it now that he really loves, and then I wouldn't have to worry about him breaking it quite so much.
How about the better reason - buy the new iPhone for $199 and sell the old one for $300!
So yes, it may be rude to have an outcry during a Keynote. But after three, going on four years of AT&T exclusivity, maybe it was time for someone to speak out.
Seriously. Give me a break - you honestly think ANYONE at Apple HQ heard that and said "gee you know what, some people really are unhappy with ATT". Cmon!
Comments
The haters are steaming mad today.
It's gonna be fun for the next few days/weeks. They will predict it to fail, like they did the iPad and the MBA, then won't have anything to say when sales go through the roof.
I wanna know how much RAM it has. With the larger display, I don't want the iPhone 4 having page caching issues in Safari like the iPad with only 256MB RAM.
The RAM is intrinsic in the A4 processor, so it will have the same 256MB as the iPad.
>> I think they REALLY need a portable storage system that connects to the dock port or something. Here's the real kicker -- how many MINUTES of HD video are you really going to edit with a max of 32G? Maybe 15?
Storage space is as important to video editing as a good antenna and battery life are to a phone. So I'd even go with a thicker phone myself, if it went up to 128G. Everything else about these seems to be a great balance of performance vs. usability - but yes, the storage size is really a problem when you consider the new HD features and video editing.
I think this is where 'cloud' storage will come into play.
Well, the 4th axis is time, and the other two take you off into alternate realities...
This is how the RDF is generated. Now you know.
6 axis are X, Y, Z and rotation around X, Y and Z. This is the same nomenclature as Sony uses for PS3 and Nintendo for the Wii.
That 2GB limit is typically a limit of the underlying file system. That won't be an issue on an iPhone.
The 2 Gig limit is not going to be an issue. They MIGHT break files up to under 2 gigs -- but a Quicktime is able to stitch together multiple clips -- so you would probably have a folder that LOOKS like on video in that case -- but not likely.
Apple got that issue licked years ago.
I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.
First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.
The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.
Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.
I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.
That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".
What I'm surprised at is that they don't have a private WiFi station there just for the demos.
They DO, but the spectrum was so crowded nobody could get good signals. The WiFi standards weren't intended to deal with so many base stations. That many clients works (after a fashion), but it falls down with that many base stations.
6 axis are X, Y, Z and rotation around X, Y and Z. This is the same nomenclature as Sony uses for PS3 and Nintendo for the Wii.
I'm sure that ALL marketing-speak is consistently going to use XYZ axis and XYZ rotation as 6-degrees of motion.
Now, engineers might want a gyro for every direction,.. but this thing should be pretty accurate as they've got the motion sensor, GPS, cell phone triangulation using the two antennas and a video camera to provide additional refinements.
So in practical terms -- a developer should be able to combine all that information and extrapolate something that a surveyor could use. If you were using this to direct a laser aimed at the moon - then it might be a bit of a reach.
What application is someone thinking of that the iPhone could NOT be used for with 3 gyros and everything else? You definitely could pilot the space shuttle.
That does come to mind -- sure. But you'd need a super fast video compressor-decompressor and lose a lot of quality to MASTER video in 17 Gigs.
Apple's Intermediate CODEC is good for editing video. But more or less, I'd say that in REAL WORLD terms, you need about 3X the storage space of the Time of the video on a FINAL HD CODEC. When you layer graphics you've got the source, and then you've got the rendering of the layers in a much less compressed codec.
On top of that, you MIGHT be doing something more than just video editing. My 16 Gig iPod Touch is full to the brim, and that's without ANY video editing going on. So maybe I slim it down to 8 Gigs, and then add all the newer LARGER apps that will be designed for the new HD platform...
... So, by my rough estimate -- a REAL HD video will require about a Gig a Minute -- but for people doing that home movie who can't tell a compressed SD from an HD signal -- maybe they can do an hour with 18 Gigs of free space.
Not at all. Most 720 video for a 2 hour movie posted online is about 4 GB give or take, withy many using far less (1-2 GB) while retaining excellent quality. H.264 is actually quite efficient when it comes to quality at lower bitrates. I think you are FAR overestimating the space required if you think it will take a GB a minute. The iPhone already has hardware acceleration for h.264. It will have hardware encoding as well (it may already in the 3GS, although I haven't checked the specs).
I would imagine it will probably be in the area of 2500 - 5000 Kbps or so for 720P video. Standard DVD's top out at 9800 Kbps max rate (dual layer 8GB).
I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.
(Disclaimer: this person could easily have been blowing smoke up my a$$)
I went after lunch with my co-worker to replace her lost phone at a local T-Mobile store and the subject of the new iPhone came up. He looked at me confused and said something like "what, they made the announcement?" When pressed he said that T-Mobile would be getting the iPhone by the end of the month. When I asked him if there would be any other carriers he said "Yes, Verizon"
Don't know that I believe him, just writing what he said.
That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".
Well, actually they do have a patent for tracking the eyes and showing you a composite in 3d of you with your background.
He might also be referring to how they enhance and reflect light,...
... but yes, likely he pulled this out of his rear because it sounds good.
OK, I get to be the seal that jumped in the shark tank.
For me, nothing compelling. Even the wireless N is only on 2.4GHz.
Shoot, how long has Apple been putting 5GHz in even their cheapest computers?
Kinda like not putting USB 3.0 on the 17" iMac I got my wife a few months ago.
Great PC, but hardly cutting edge features.
This makes me very happy with the purchase of two 3GS iPhones this weekend (with unlimited data plans) as AT&T stores offer 30 day price guarantee - so only $99 each!
The screen is actually bigger, too. I really don't need a cell phone screen I have to enlarge with a projector to tell the improvement.
I don't need to video conference (which AT&T will never allow over their 3G anyway).
Isn't that what the Macbooks are for?
Not bad to have, but no big deal ether.
And I wonder if the iMovie app won't work with the 3GS when upgraded to iOS 4?
Any way, for me just not that much more.
OK, now to rip me a new one!
Thanks for reading
You'll be singing a different tune when you upgrade to iOS 4 and your phone slows down, while the rest of us are taking pictures with a flash, video, and enjoying the hot new glass case. Video chat will be a lot of fun for people with far off families. With as much as we spend on the service, saving $100 on the phone is very hard to justify. You save $100 and in return get worse experience every single day - would it be worth 30 cents per day over the course of a year? I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't be.
... like the iPad is so 'pocketable'
It appears the the sole reason for maintaining the small screen (by today's smartphone standards) was simply to maintain the display's aspect ratio, which has been achieved, even if it does make the phone look a bit dated.
You don't think that the concept of a phone that is "too large" vs one that is an appropriate but large size qualifies at least as a possible reason? Surely you don't really think the SOLE reason is the ratio?
Hard to believe but I don't have an iPhone yet, BUT I am on Verizon -
Can you buy the iOS 4 phone and not hook up with AT&T and then only use it on WiFi?
I know they would add mucho $ to the price. I like all the new features-5MP cam, HD video, etc. But, I don't need AT&T since my reception is bad anyway at my home.
Is this possible?
Sure, eBay. Is it really worth $600 to you?
I mean really, is everyone really so truly saddened by this stuff?
The professor you're replying to is truly saddened at SJ's comments, as if somehow the impending pop-culture explosion of his vision science field is thrown off track by the speech. And you are "honestly" saddened by this comments? Cmon people
The comments are incorrect. That's sad, wouldn't you say? From someone who supposedly understands these issues to make statements that he should know are misleading, at best, is sad to me.
To me, your last statement here is one of the understated advantages of the iPhone product line. Personally, when I do upgrade my iPhone 3GS I'll then feel pretty good about handing it down to my 4 year old to have as his one iPod Touch. I have a couple games on it now that he really loves, and then I wouldn't have to worry about him breaking it quite so much.
How about the better reason - buy the new iPhone for $199 and sell the old one for $300!
Also why no 64gb option? The iPod Touch has had that for ages now. 32gb seems awfully small these days.
The RAM is intrinsic in the A4 processor, so it will have the same 256MB as the iPad.
But it's a separate module in the package. It could be replaced.
So yes, it may be rude to have an outcry during a Keynote. But after three, going on four years of AT&T exclusivity, maybe it was time for someone to speak out.
Seriously. Give me a break - you honestly think ANYONE at Apple HQ heard that and said "gee you know what, some people really are unhappy with ATT". Cmon!