Dear Mr Jobs (or, if any Apple employees are reading this, please forward),
Myself and many like me will immediately purchase a small computer than can:
- play DVDs
- play CDs
- play an iTunes library (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS)
- play ripped DVDs (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS) - and hey, I know the industry doesn't like it but it is a fact that a lot of people do this.
- surf the internet
- connect to a HDTV for video
- connect to a receiver for audio
- has a user friendly front end (Front Row will do but I'm sure Apple can improve on this solid foundation)
- play Blu-ray
I know the AppleTV is pitched at this but it doesn't quite hit the mark. Seriously, you really need to reconsider BD. For many reasons, people just prefer BD. For me, it's because the iTunes downloads do not match the quality of a disc.
The new Mini would be the perfect vehicle to carry Apple into the home theatre market as it would capitalise on the iTunes / iPod ecosystem.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people that are still holding out for a BD mini will eventually give up and buy a dedicated player and that potential link between the Mini and the living room will be forever lost.
[Of course, the alternative would be an AppleTV with a BD slot!]
I can't imagine many would pay for the Blu-ray drive that would fit into that machine.
The funny part is that half of the whiners are saying it's too expensive while the other half are saying it needs to have BD added (which would it cost for a BD drive small enough for the Mini? An extra $500 or more?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
It is expensive for what is in the box. And no, I won't buy one - I don't have more money than sense. For your information, I'm waiting on the new Mac Pros. I wouldn't touch a Windows machine with a barge pole. I hate Microsoft and everything they stand for.
But I refuse to lay down money on a machine, whatever make, if the bang for you buck ratio is skewed too far towards the buck, and not the bang. I get that the superior software is part of the value. That's not the argument.
You look at the comments over at Macrumors and you'll see that many many posters agree that this price point is ridiculous.
Yes, but there are posters who whine about everything. At the same time as some people whine, Apple is obviously selling a lot of Minis, so there are people who think they're fairly priced. There is no RIGHT price. Apple sets the price that they think is appropriate and you decide to buy or not to buy. It's that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig
Or buy a non-cheap semi-decent Dell/HP/etc that's still cheaper, twice as fast with discrete graphics... Dell sell a small form factor quad-core Inspiron 560s with 4GB, 750GB for £500, or 6GB, 1TB, HD5450 for £560. Comes with a limited version of Excel and Word too (see my comment above about including iWork in the price to sweeten the deal).
Of course it doesn't come with Mac OS X, and it doesn't look as nice - but it's a far easier sell. Apart from the stupid Dell online ordering system that take forever to click through billions of options, some of which appear twice!
As I said, you're free to buy a cheapo system with immense failure rates and support lines that require you to speak Swahili if you wish. No one is stopping you.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux
You know, it is possible to be a long-time Apple customer and yet still not agree with the price.
At this point, the entry point for Mac OS has just risen another notch. Five years ago it was $500, and while today's Mini is obviously much more capable the pricing trend has not been favorable for those wanting an entry-level machine or a lesser-used second machine. There's no technical reason that Apple can't offer a stripped-down unit (no disc burning, smaller HD, slower processor) for $500 and reclaim at lot more hobbyists.
Of course there's no technical reason. Apple could sell a motherboard and power supply in a cardboard box for $100 if they wish. But that's not the business they're in. They've chose to offer the current Mini as their entry point based on 30 years of industry experience and the best marketing team (at least for technology products) in the world. All these complaints are just plain foolish - until you can demonstrate that you can do it better.
If you want a cheap computer buy a Dell. You just don't get it do you.
I think most everyone here "gets it" just fine. I think the argument is that while the Mini obviously received a good redesign, this is really just an incremental bump. Yeah, the SD card slot is new and the integrated power supply is nice, but the $100 price increase is pretty painful for most. I talked my parents into a Mini last fall, and if it were $100 more it may very well have been a deal breaker for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
You really think that if Apple was going to introduce Blu-Ray to the Mac lineup it would happen in the Mini refresh? I suppose that's not totally unrealistic since the Mini is a good home theater/media player option, but I would really think that the iMac would be where they would introduce the Blu-Ray if they were going to.
...maybe we're the ones looking at this wrong. Maybe Apple is focusing these on a different user.
That much is clear.
I don't think most people here are clamoring for a return to the 90's when Apple cranked out a full catalog of desktop machines to compete at every PC price point, but damn, $500 is psychologically significant for a lot of people. I know a lot of people who would love to invest in Apple's ecosystem but simply cannot justify a $700 starting point without even including the monitor or keyboard!
I guess Apple wants to accelerate their revenue base away from Mac OS and towards iOS faster than many of us expected. For $500 people now shop for an iPad, not a Mac.
Dear Mr Jobs (or, if any Apple employees are reading this, please forward),
Myself and many like me will immediately purchase a small computer than can:
- play DVDs
- play CDs
- play an iTunes library (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS)
- play ripped DVDs (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS) - and hey, I know the industry doesn't like it but it is a fact that a lot of people do this.
- surf the internet
- connect to a HDTV for video
- connect to a receiver for audio
- has a user friendly front end (Front Row will do but I'm sure Apple can improve on this solid foundation)
- play Blu-ray
I know the AppleTV is pitched at this but it doesn't quite hit the mark. Seriously, you really need to reconsider BD. For many reasons, people just prefer BD. For me, it's because the iTunes downloads do not match the quality of a disc.
The new Mini would be the perfect vehicle to carry Apple into the home theatre market as it would capitalise on the iTunes / iPod ecosystem.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people that are still holding out for a BD mini will eventually give up and buy a dedicated player and that potential link between the Mini and the living room will be forever lost.
[Of course, the alternative would be an AppleTV with a BD slot!]
I really don't see blu-ray coming to Apple for a few of reasons:
1) Steve has expressly stated his disdain for the blu-ray format;
2) Apple has a vested interest in delivering content, including HD, via the iTunes store;
3) Optical drives consume significant power just to spin the disk, and battery life has been a key concern for all of Apple's recent products (excluding the iMac and Mini, of course);
4) Steve/Apple have a history of killing off "legacy" peripherals;
Considered together, blu-ray is a format that Steve dislikes, which consumes substantial power, competes with the iTunes store, and takes up space in mobile products that could be used for additional battery.
I suspect that we are within 12 months of seeing built-in optical drives become a thing of the past for Apple portables. Apple has shown a recent propensity to cater to the mass-market, even when it means delivering solutions that are not as tailored to the specialist as they once were.
I truly believe that the typical user hardly ever uses their optical drive. It definitely strikes me as a component that takes up much more space than it is worth in a portable device.
A few points:
1) Steve has not expressed his disdain for BD. He dislikes the patent costs involved with it.
2) The mini still has optical media. I don't really see how this is relevant as it hasn't been removed yet
3) Optical drives take power to spin up. After that, they require very little power to sustain
Even if they dropped a Blu-Ray drive in this one, the OS doesn't support it. What would be the point unless they wanted to force you to use BootCamp. Unless Apple included the support to decrypt store bought video discs, it would be useful only as a burner, and a reader for non-encrypted discs
On your final point, the mini is a desktop computer. It is not portable in the sense of a laptop, or an iPad/iPhone. I did find the addition of the SD Card Reader interesting. An embedded reader could eventually replace optical if the costs become competitive enough.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
Blu-ray is history, that's why you'll never see a BRD in an Apple product. Apple called the death of the floppy drive correctly, and they've called this one too. Blu-ray was only ever going to be a temporary stepping stone to getting HD content delivered over the net (something that Apple are heavily invested in btw). The format war with HD-DVD made sure it got off the ground just as that stepping stone was no longer really required.
I don't think most people here are clamoring for a return to the 90's when Apple cranked out a full catalog of desktop machines to compete at every PC price point, but damn, $500 is psychologically significant for a lot of people. I know a lot of people who would love to invest in Apple's ecosystem but simply cannot justify a $700 starting point without even including the monitor or keyboard!
I guess Apple wants to accelerate their revenue base away from Mac OS and towards iOS faster than many of us expected. For $500 people now shop for an iPad, not a Mac.
It seems like Apple no long wants this to be an entry level product. The design, attention to detail and (likely) the engineering we'll see from the teardown will show this is now svelt premium product.
There is very little reason for them to use a milled block of aluminium for this machine type and to make it so small. It's more like a proof-of-concept than a machine you'd expect to see on the market.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
I personally would like to see more aluminum than plastic....I would like to see Apple make the TimeCapsule/Router in recyclable aluminum rather than the current plastic as well.
It's the environment baby!
Plastic can be recycled or they could have used recycled plastic actually. When you market an entry product like the Mac Mini, it comes down to pricing.
I wonder if it would send 24/96 audio signals to my receiver via HDMI, when playing 24/96 music I already have in iTunes...
Given that I already have all my music and other media on my main system - and need to keep it there - I don't think it will do what I need. I can't choose to sync my current library with it, like I can and love with AppleTV. If Apple started supporting a "home cloud", it would be a lot more attractive...
If you think it's expensive, don't buy one. That simple. Go ahead and buy your POS cheap box which has a 40% failure rate out of the box and which requires you to talk to someone in Swahili to get support.
Meanwhile, here in the real world, the Mini server is a super value. Please look up the cost of Windows server with unlimited client licenses. Heck, the software alone is considerably more expensive than the Mac Mini server.
Berating people is uncalled for. The point is that Apple has increased the price. Which is a step backwards.
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
The smaller Apple makes their products, the smaller they can make the boxes. The smaller the boxes, the cheaper it is to ship them. I'm pretty sure this new Mac Mini doesn't cost Apple any more to get to the store than the last one (production cost included). Smaller form factor + no external PSU. The box for this thing is barely gonna be bigger than the Mac Mini itself.
The smaller Apple makes their products, the smaller they can make the boxes. The smaller the boxes, the cheaper it is to ship them.
I can assure you, as someone who has had experience in metal fabrication and manufacturing, that the cost of the enclosure and associated miniaturization completely eclipses the cost of shipping for a product like this. By orders of magnitude.
Comments
Just imagine how the next AppleTV will look. Nuts.
I understand that $699 is a bit high for an entry level computer and I think $599 would have been more appropriate.
Myself and many like me will immediately purchase a small computer than can:
- play DVDs
- play CDs
- play an iTunes library (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS)
- play ripped DVDs (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS) - and hey, I know the industry doesn't like it but it is a fact that a lot of people do this.
- surf the internet
- connect to a HDTV for video
- connect to a receiver for audio
- has a user friendly front end (Front Row will do but I'm sure Apple can improve on this solid foundation)
- play Blu-ray
I know the AppleTV is pitched at this but it doesn't quite hit the mark. Seriously, you really need to reconsider BD. For many reasons, people just prefer BD. For me, it's because the iTunes downloads do not match the quality of a disc.
The new Mini would be the perfect vehicle to carry Apple into the home theatre market as it would capitalise on the iTunes / iPod ecosystem.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people that are still holding out for a BD mini will eventually give up and buy a dedicated player and that potential link between the Mini and the living room will be forever lost.
[Of course, the alternative would be an AppleTV with a BD slot!]
Assuring you of my future business if you BD.
Kind regards,
MJW.
Just imagine how the next AppleTV will look. Nuts.
If based on the A4 and iOS it could be as small as this: http://www.ixbt.com/td/images/ipod-nano-2-dock-back.jpg (image)
I can't imagine many would pay for the Blu-ray drive that would fit into that machine.
The funny part is that half of the whiners are saying it's too expensive while the other half are saying it needs to have BD added (which would it cost for a BD drive small enough for the Mini? An extra $500 or more?)
It is expensive for what is in the box. And no, I won't buy one - I don't have more money than sense. For your information, I'm waiting on the new Mac Pros. I wouldn't touch a Windows machine with a barge pole. I hate Microsoft and everything they stand for.
But I refuse to lay down money on a machine, whatever make, if the bang for you buck ratio is skewed too far towards the buck, and not the bang. I get that the superior software is part of the value. That's not the argument.
You look at the comments over at Macrumors and you'll see that many many posters agree that this price point is ridiculous.
Yes, but there are posters who whine about everything. At the same time as some people whine, Apple is obviously selling a lot of Minis, so there are people who think they're fairly priced. There is no RIGHT price. Apple sets the price that they think is appropriate and you decide to buy or not to buy. It's that simple.
Or buy a non-cheap semi-decent Dell/HP/etc that's still cheaper, twice as fast with discrete graphics... Dell sell a small form factor quad-core Inspiron 560s with 4GB, 750GB for £500, or 6GB, 1TB, HD5450 for £560. Comes with a limited version of Excel and Word too (see my comment above about including iWork in the price to sweeten the deal).
Of course it doesn't come with Mac OS X, and it doesn't look as nice - but it's a far easier sell. Apart from the stupid Dell online ordering system that take forever to click through billions of options, some of which appear twice!
As I said, you're free to buy a cheapo system with immense failure rates and support lines that require you to speak Swahili if you wish. No one is stopping you.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
You know, it is possible to be a long-time Apple customer and yet still not agree with the price.
At this point, the entry point for Mac OS has just risen another notch. Five years ago it was $500, and while today's Mini is obviously much more capable the pricing trend has not been favorable for those wanting an entry-level machine or a lesser-used second machine. There's no technical reason that Apple can't offer a stripped-down unit (no disc burning, smaller HD, slower processor) for $500 and reclaim at lot more hobbyists.
Of course there's no technical reason. Apple could sell a motherboard and power supply in a cardboard box for $100 if they wish. But that's not the business they're in. They've chose to offer the current Mini as their entry point based on 30 years of industry experience and the best marketing team (at least for technology products) in the world. All these complaints are just plain foolish - until you can demonstrate that you can do it better.
If you want a cheap computer buy a Dell. You just don't get it do you.
I think most everyone here "gets it" just fine. I think the argument is that while the Mini obviously received a good redesign, this is really just an incremental bump. Yeah, the SD card slot is new and the integrated power supply is nice, but the $100 price increase is pretty painful for most. I talked my parents into a Mini last fall, and if it were $100 more it may very well have been a deal breaker for them.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
You really think that if Apple was going to introduce Blu-Ray to the Mac lineup it would happen in the Mini refresh? I suppose that's not totally unrealistic since the Mini is a good home theater/media player option, but I would really think that the iMac would be where they would introduce the Blu-Ray if they were going to.
...maybe we're the ones looking at this wrong. Maybe Apple is focusing these on a different user.
That much is clear.
I don't think most people here are clamoring for a return to the 90's when Apple cranked out a full catalog of desktop machines to compete at every PC price point, but damn, $500 is psychologically significant for a lot of people. I know a lot of people who would love to invest in Apple's ecosystem but simply cannot justify a $700 starting point without even including the monitor or keyboard!
I guess Apple wants to accelerate their revenue base away from Mac OS and towards iOS faster than many of us expected. For $500 people now shop for an iPad, not a Mac.
Dear Mr Jobs (or, if any Apple employees are reading this, please forward),
Myself and many like me will immediately purchase a small computer than can:
- play DVDs
- play CDs
- play an iTunes library (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS)
- play ripped DVDs (either from it's own hard disk or, from a NAS) - and hey, I know the industry doesn't like it but it is a fact that a lot of people do this.
- surf the internet
- connect to a HDTV for video
- connect to a receiver for audio
- has a user friendly front end (Front Row will do but I'm sure Apple can improve on this solid foundation)
- play Blu-ray
I know the AppleTV is pitched at this but it doesn't quite hit the mark. Seriously, you really need to reconsider BD. For many reasons, people just prefer BD. For me, it's because the iTunes downloads do not match the quality of a disc.
The new Mini would be the perfect vehicle to carry Apple into the home theatre market as it would capitalise on the iTunes / iPod ecosystem.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people that are still holding out for a BD mini will eventually give up and buy a dedicated player and that potential link between the Mini and the living room will be forever lost.
[Of course, the alternative would be an AppleTV with a BD slot!]
Assuring you of my future business if you BD.
Kind regards,
MJW.
http://www.lyricsdomain.com/18/rolli..._you_want.html
I really don't see blu-ray coming to Apple for a few of reasons:
1) Steve has expressly stated his disdain for the blu-ray format;
2) Apple has a vested interest in delivering content, including HD, via the iTunes store;
3) Optical drives consume significant power just to spin the disk, and battery life has been a key concern for all of Apple's recent products (excluding the iMac and Mini, of course);
4) Steve/Apple have a history of killing off "legacy" peripherals;
Considered together, blu-ray is a format that Steve dislikes, which consumes substantial power, competes with the iTunes store, and takes up space in mobile products that could be used for additional battery.
I suspect that we are within 12 months of seeing built-in optical drives become a thing of the past for Apple portables. Apple has shown a recent propensity to cater to the mass-market, even when it means delivering solutions that are not as tailored to the specialist as they once were.
I truly believe that the typical user hardly ever uses their optical drive. It definitely strikes me as a component that takes up much more space than it is worth in a portable device.
A few points:
1) Steve has not expressed his disdain for BD. He dislikes the patent costs involved with it.
2) The mini still has optical media. I don't really see how this is relevant as it hasn't been removed yet
3) Optical drives take power to spin up. After that, they require very little power to sustain
Even if they dropped a Blu-Ray drive in this one, the OS doesn't support it. What would be the point unless they wanted to force you to use BootCamp. Unless Apple included the support to decrypt store bought video discs, it would be useful only as a burner, and a reader for non-encrypted discs
On your final point, the mini is a desktop computer. It is not portable in the sense of a laptop, or an iPad/iPhone. I did find the addition of the SD Card Reader interesting. An embedded reader could eventually replace optical if the costs become competitive enough.
What is it with Apple and blu-ray? This really is getting rather tragic now. I wish they'd just grow up and bury whatever hatchet is stopping them adopting BD.
Blu-ray is history, that's why you'll never see a BRD in an Apple product. Apple called the death of the floppy drive correctly, and they've called this one too. Blu-ray was only ever going to be a temporary stepping stone to getting HD content delivered over the net (something that Apple are heavily invested in btw). The format war with HD-DVD made sure it got off the ground just as that stepping stone was no longer really required.
That much is clear.
I don't think most people here are clamoring for a return to the 90's when Apple cranked out a full catalog of desktop machines to compete at every PC price point, but damn, $500 is psychologically significant for a lot of people. I know a lot of people who would love to invest in Apple's ecosystem but simply cannot justify a $700 starting point without even including the monitor or keyboard!
I guess Apple wants to accelerate their revenue base away from Mac OS and towards iOS faster than many of us expected. For $500 people now shop for an iPad, not a Mac.
It seems like Apple no long wants this to be an entry level product. The design, attention to detail and (likely) the engineering we'll see from the teardown will show this is now svelt premium product.
There is very little reason for them to use a milled block of aluminium for this machine type and to make it so small. It's more like a proof-of-concept than a machine you'd expect to see on the market.
BTW, That Inspiron is over twice the size of the Mini - miniaturization costs money.
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
I personally would like to see more aluminum than plastic....I would like to see Apple make the TimeCapsule/Router in recyclable aluminum rather than the current plastic as well.
It's the environment baby!
Plastic can be recycled or they could have used recycled plastic actually. When you market an entry product like the Mac Mini, it comes down to pricing.
Given that I already have all my music and other media on my main system - and need to keep it there - I don't think it will do what I need. I can't choose to sync my current library with it, like I can and love with AppleTV. If Apple started supporting a "home cloud", it would be a lot more attractive...
Yeah, but no info of the IR port on any of the pages.
Looking at this pic it seems clear that the IR port is that right side of the ODD.
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
If you think it's expensive, don't buy one. That simple. Go ahead and buy your POS cheap box which has a 40% failure rate out of the box and which requires you to talk to someone in Swahili to get support.
Meanwhile, here in the real world, the Mini server is a super value. Please look up the cost of Windows server with unlimited client licenses. Heck, the software alone is considerably more expensive than the Mac Mini server.
Berating people is uncalled for. The point is that Apple has increased the price. Which is a step backwards.
I think that's what people have a problem with. Apple prioritized miniaturization, but for a stationary machine that seems to be an unsavory (and unnecessary) compromise. By shrinking the form factor Apple has both boxed themselves in a corner in terms of user-expandability AND added to the production costs. And for what?
The smaller Apple makes their products, the smaller they can make the boxes. The smaller the boxes, the cheaper it is to ship them. I'm pretty sure this new Mac Mini doesn't cost Apple any more to get to the store than the last one (production cost included). Smaller form factor + no external PSU. The box for this thing is barely gonna be bigger than the Mac Mini itself.
I believe that would be the green "power on" light. It is far too small to be an IR port, or even a paper clip hole--as some have suggested.
The IR receiver is the gap at the edge of the slot. The server model, which leaves out the optical drive, has a 'dot' on the front instead.
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/
(Why a server would need or even benefit from an IR controller is a mystery, however.)
The smaller Apple makes their products, the smaller they can make the boxes. The smaller the boxes, the cheaper it is to ship them.
I can assure you, as someone who has had experience in metal fabrication and manufacturing, that the cost of the enclosure and associated miniaturization completely eclipses the cost of shipping for a product like this. By orders of magnitude.