Also for everyone complaining about Apple and AT&T's servers, there was no way either of them could have expected the amount of traffic for preorders today. They sold out of what has to be millions of preorder devices in less than a day. What else did you expect?
By people I mean average people. I think you knew that since you recognized that I meant that. So no I didn't shoot my argument in the foot since I am not the average consumer. And after the Droid Does campaign focusing on what the OS does instead of the device itself, people see Android or Droid and think Google. I have seen several instances of friends of mine refer to their phones as Droids, Androids, or Google phones. Just because these companies dump truckloads of money into advertising and development to differentiate themselves from one another doesn't mean that it's working.
...is truly an adequate cross-section of the majority of average consumers expressing interest in smartphones. And for most, if you are at all cognizant of how the carriers operate, you will hear them refer to their phones as [name of carrier] ANDROID phones, but that won't last long. Look at Nokia do they ever emphasize the Symbian OS running on their phones? Of course not. The primary driver for every carrier (and what Google sold to them) is the customization and differentiation of the phones, not the OS branding. The only way that the OS will remain conspicuous will be as a differentiator to the Apple iPhone. If Apple stopped making iPhones tomorrow the Android branding would disappear overnight. The carriers have NO vested interest in using it as it only calls out the fact that the same OS is running on phones they want perceived as markedly different from all other Android phones. That is the ingrained carrier mentality.
Have you seen ANY of the marketing analysis where average consumers actually disliked the robotic characterization of the hardware? That it actually made them want to buy it LESS? It sold well to the geek segment - but that's where it was targeted. The mainstream consumer, whose huge mass and average tastes drive the economy of this country DIDN'T LIKE IT. It turned them off. Fortunately some of the phone makers took a different route and made commercials targeted at the mainstream consumer and sold more there in smaller overall percentages than the Blackberry, or the iPhone but greater volumes than the Droid. So much for your argument.
You know you could have been condescending and smug in fewer words with less effort.
Really. Naw.
UPDATE: well doggone it you were RIGHT!!! OTOH, I was going for encouragement and support not smug - could it be you have the wrong logic filters in place for reading here? Many people like the poster have issues like this and feel, unconsciously it seems for most, inadequate or overwhelmed by cynicism, pessimism and Apple product excellence. The reaction is as you have seen lamentable and completely correctable with the right amount of support and encouragement - which was what I was offering the poor soul. WHo probably was feeling pretty good until you butted in and spoiled the situation. Good going buttinsky!
I'm 39 years old. I work hard for my own money and I like the iPhone. What is your f'ing problem that you need to come here, read posts that irritate you to the point that you try to belittle the other posters. If you can't deal with people being frustrated and disappointed, why not spend your free time at disney.com?
Be thankful for the protection of the online forum! If you spoke to me like this in a public setting, where we were face to face, I'd knock your f'ing lights out.
By people I mean average people. I think you knew that since you recognized that I meant that. So no I didn't shoot my argument in the foot since I am not the average consumer. And after the Droid Does campaign focusing on what the OS does instead of the device itself, people see Android or Droid and think Google. I have seen several instances of friends of mine refer to their phones as Droids, Androids, or Google phones. Just because these companies dump truckloads of money into advertising and development to differentiate themselves from one another doesn't mean that it's working.
Dude... you are trolling an Apple fan site, none of us here, including yourself, qualify as your "average person" or your average consumer. Average people don't spend a whole day trying to buy a phone on the first day, post in Apple or Android forums, or give a crap about the platforms, and they certainly don't stake their self worth in the triumph of one phone eco-system over another. Your clique might count the days until the next release of a particular "Google phone" but mainstream consumers (mainstream would be 80% of the bell curve, this excludes early adopters like yourself and most people posting in this thread) don't refer to Android phones as "Google phones." That is a very intentional result by the Ph.Ds at Google and the handset manufacturers. Further these mainstream consumers are not buying into an ideology of Open vs Curated applications, frankly they don't know the difference nor should they care.
But don't let me be a wet blanket, dream your big dream that the Aria and AT&Ts crashed servers are going to cause the collapse of the entire iPhone-iPod-iPad-iTunes ecosystem. I am sure that will be spin the mainstream media puts on it. The press certainly will not take the story line of the demand being so great it crashed hundreds of AT&T servers, or that it set a record for first day sales, or that Apple clearly has another hit on its hands, or that despite all the problems Apple, AT&T, Radio Shack and Best Buy managed to sell out their entire allotment for the 24th. They probably won't cover the lines of folks at the Apple stores on the 24th either. Nope, not likely they will put it in terms that AT&T let Apple down again and it is further proof jobs should put a stake in the heart of exclusivity agreements for the iPhone.
...is truly an adequate cross-section of the majority of average consumers expressing interest in smartphones. And for most, if you are at all cognizant of how the carriers operate, you will hear them refer to their phones as [name of carrier] ANDROID phones, but that won't last long. Look at Nokia do they ever emphasize the Symbian OS running on their phones? Of course not. The primary driver for every carrier (and what Google sold to them) is the customization and differentiation of the phones, not the OS branding. The only way that the OS will remain conspicuous will be as a differentiator to the Apple iPhone. If Apple stopped making iPhones tomorrow the Android branding would disappear overnight. The carriers have NO vested interest in using it as it only calls out the fact that the same OS is running on phones they want perceived as markedly different from all other Android phones. That is the ingrained carrier mentality.
Ok, if you keep hearing Android, that's the one thing you hear over again. Please tell me how that somehow invalidates my point.
Quote:
Have you seen ANY of the marketing analysis where average consumers actually disliked the robotic characterization of the hardware? That it actually made them want to buy it LESS?
No. I don't know where I said this either because it has helped sell them on Verizon.
Quote:
It sold well to the geek segment - but that's where it was targeted. The mainstream consumer, whose huge mass and average tastes drive the economy of this country DIDN'T LIKE IT. It turned them off.
I guess that's where that 100,000+ activations per day and rising thing came from huh?
Quote:
Fortunately some of the phone makers took a different route and made commercials targeted at the mainstream consumer and sold more there in smaller overall percentages than the Blackberry, or the iPhone but greater volumes than the Droid. So much for your argument.
As I mentioned I haven't seen any market research, but just from reading tech blogs and industry publications, word on the street has it that the Droid has been a pretty big success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav
Really. Naw.
UPDATE: well doggone it you were RIGHT!!! OTOH, I was going for encouragement and support not smug - could it be you have the wrong logic filters in place for reading here? Many people like the poster have issues like this and feel, unconsciously it seems for most, inadequate or overwhelmed by cynicism, pessimism and Apple product excellence. The reaction is as you have seen lamentable and completely correctable with the right amount of support and encouragement - which was what I was offering the poor soul. WHo probably was feeling pretty good until you butted in and spoiled the situation. Good going buttinsky!
Yep, it's condescension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipperfeet
Dude... you are trolling an Apple fan site, none of us here, including yourself, qualify as your "average person" or your average consumer. Average people don't spend a whole day trying to buy a phone on the first day, post in Apple or Android forums, or give a crap about the platforms, and they certainly don't stake their self worth in the triumph of one phone eco-system over another. Your clique might count the days until the next release of a particular "Google phone" but mainstream consumers (mainstream would be 80% of the bell curve, this excludes early adopters like yourself and most people posting in this thread) don't refer to Android phones as "Google phones." That is a very intentional result by the Ph.Ds at Google and the handset manufacturers. Further these mainstream consumers are not buying into an ideology of Open vs Curated applications, frankly they don't know the difference nor should they care.
Sorry, but they are referring to them as Google phones or Android or Droid. And I never once mentioned anything about open vs. curated.
Also for everyone complaining about Apple and AT&T's servers, there was no way either of them could have expected the amount of traffic for preorders today. They sold out of what has to be millions of preorder devices in less than a day. What else did you expect?
That is completely false. Let's look at the facts:
1. Apple sold 1,000,000 3GS phones in the first three days. Each 3GS sale included the purchase of the phone AND activation. That was almost certainly front-weighted, so something more than 333,000 were sold on the first day - including activation. IIRC, all of those were AT&T. For the Iphone 4, they sold 600,000 on the first day, but not all were AT&T. Even if we say 80% were AT&T, that means 480,000 - but no activation was involved, so it's not that far out of line.
2. The problems were largely self-inflicted. Because AT&T's servers crashed rather than gracefully handling the overflow, people had to re-apply over and over and over again. AT&T says they processed 13,000,000 verification requests, but only sold something like 480,000 phones. Their crappy system caused them to do 20 times as much work as was actually needed.
3. As said above, Apple sold 1 M 3GS phones in 3 days. Once again, 600,000 iPhone 4s were sold on the first day, BUT AT&T's ordering system has been shut down since then. So, over the 3 day period, AT&T processed LESS orders this year than last year (even considering the fact that last year's sales included activation). Clearly "no one could have predicted the response' doesn't fly when sales were lower over the 3 day period this year than last year.
4. The really sad thing is that ALL of AT&T's systems are down now. You can't order a different phone, either -- THREE DAYS after the meltdown. Clearly, they have incompetent system management.
My own experience was even worse - I wanted to merge 2 lines and get 3 phone upgrades (only 1 is an iPhone 4). It took me 3 visits to AT&T stores, multiple phone calls (I've talked to at least 10 people on the phone now in addition to the store visits), hours on hold, and I STILL haven't been able to order any of the upgrade phones (except, ironically, the iPhone 4).
AT&T's handling has been irresponsible and unjustifiable.
This is how ATT /Apple should have handled the onslaught of orders (and bypassed what they must have known would be the ATT bottleneck with contract eligibility confirmation:
1) Explain that: To better serve you, this is a pre-order process, subject to after-the-fact validation with ATT."
2) Gather the data and place the pre-order.
3) Acknowledge the pre-order immediately, via email.
4) Perform after-the-fact validation with ATT
5) Send pre-order validation acknowledgement within 24 hours (with link)
6) Customer has 24 hours to accept pre-order terms, resolve issues (with already captured information), or let order expire.
Comments
Tell that to HP and Dell.
By people I mean average people. I think you knew that since you recognized that I meant that. So no I didn't shoot my argument in the foot since I am not the average consumer. And after the Droid Does campaign focusing on what the OS does instead of the device itself, people see Android or Droid and think Google. I have seen several instances of friends of mine refer to their phones as Droids, Androids, or Google phones. Just because these companies dump truckloads of money into advertising and development to differentiate themselves from one another doesn't mean that it's working.
...is truly an adequate cross-section of the majority of average consumers expressing interest in smartphones. And for most, if you are at all cognizant of how the carriers operate, you will hear them refer to their phones as [name of carrier] ANDROID phones, but that won't last long. Look at Nokia do they ever emphasize the Symbian OS running on their phones? Of course not. The primary driver for every carrier (and what Google sold to them) is the customization and differentiation of the phones, not the OS branding. The only way that the OS will remain conspicuous will be as a differentiator to the Apple iPhone. If Apple stopped making iPhones tomorrow the Android branding would disappear overnight. The carriers have NO vested interest in using it as it only calls out the fact that the same OS is running on phones they want perceived as markedly different from all other Android phones. That is the ingrained carrier mentality.
Have you seen ANY of the marketing analysis where average consumers actually disliked the robotic characterization of the hardware? That it actually made them want to buy it LESS? It sold well to the geek segment - but that's where it was targeted. The mainstream consumer, whose huge mass and average tastes drive the economy of this country DIDN'T LIKE IT. It turned them off. Fortunately some of the phone makers took a different route and made commercials targeted at the mainstream consumer and sold more there in smaller overall percentages than the Blackberry, or the iPhone but greater volumes than the Droid. So much for your argument.
You know you could have been condescending and smug in fewer words with less effort.
Really. Naw.
UPDATE: well doggone it you were RIGHT!!! OTOH, I was going for encouragement and support not smug - could it be you have the wrong logic filters in place for reading here? Many people like the poster have issues like this and feel, unconsciously it seems for most, inadequate or overwhelmed by cynicism, pessimism and Apple product excellence. The reaction is as you have seen lamentable and completely correctable with the right amount of support and encouragement - which was what I was offering the poor soul. WHo probably was feeling pretty good until you butted in and spoiled the situation. Good going buttinsky!
I'm 39 years old. I work hard for my own money and I like the iPhone. What is your f'ing problem that you need to come here, read posts that irritate you to the point that you try to belittle the other posters. If you can't deal with people being frustrated and disappointed, why not spend your free time at disney.com?
Be thankful for the protection of the online forum! If you spoke to me like this in a public setting, where we were face to face, I'd knock your f'ing lights out.
Send me your address.
Send me your address.
Yeah, right. How about you send me your address instead?
Tell that to HP and Dell.
By people I mean average people. I think you knew that since you recognized that I meant that. So no I didn't shoot my argument in the foot since I am not the average consumer. And after the Droid Does campaign focusing on what the OS does instead of the device itself, people see Android or Droid and think Google. I have seen several instances of friends of mine refer to their phones as Droids, Androids, or Google phones. Just because these companies dump truckloads of money into advertising and development to differentiate themselves from one another doesn't mean that it's working.
Dude... you are trolling an Apple fan site, none of us here, including yourself, qualify as your "average person" or your average consumer. Average people don't spend a whole day trying to buy a phone on the first day, post in Apple or Android forums, or give a crap about the platforms, and they certainly don't stake their self worth in the triumph of one phone eco-system over another. Your clique might count the days until the next release of a particular "Google phone" but mainstream consumers (mainstream would be 80% of the bell curve, this excludes early adopters like yourself and most people posting in this thread) don't refer to Android phones as "Google phones." That is a very intentional result by the Ph.Ds at Google and the handset manufacturers. Further these mainstream consumers are not buying into an ideology of Open vs Curated applications, frankly they don't know the difference nor should they care.
But don't let me be a wet blanket, dream your big dream that the Aria and AT&Ts crashed servers are going to cause the collapse of the entire iPhone-iPod-iPad-iTunes ecosystem. I am sure that will be spin the mainstream media puts on it. The press certainly will not take the story line of the demand being so great it crashed hundreds of AT&T servers, or that it set a record for first day sales, or that Apple clearly has another hit on its hands, or that despite all the problems Apple, AT&T, Radio Shack and Best Buy managed to sell out their entire allotment for the 24th. They probably won't cover the lines of folks at the Apple stores on the 24th either. Nope, not likely they will put it in terms that AT&T let Apple down again and it is further proof jobs should put a stake in the heart of exclusivity agreements for the iPhone.
...is truly an adequate cross-section of the majority of average consumers expressing interest in smartphones. And for most, if you are at all cognizant of how the carriers operate, you will hear them refer to their phones as [name of carrier] ANDROID phones, but that won't last long. Look at Nokia do they ever emphasize the Symbian OS running on their phones? Of course not. The primary driver for every carrier (and what Google sold to them) is the customization and differentiation of the phones, not the OS branding. The only way that the OS will remain conspicuous will be as a differentiator to the Apple iPhone. If Apple stopped making iPhones tomorrow the Android branding would disappear overnight. The carriers have NO vested interest in using it as it only calls out the fact that the same OS is running on phones they want perceived as markedly different from all other Android phones. That is the ingrained carrier mentality.
Ok, if you keep hearing Android, that's the one thing you hear over again. Please tell me how that somehow invalidates my point.
Have you seen ANY of the marketing analysis where average consumers actually disliked the robotic characterization of the hardware? That it actually made them want to buy it LESS?
No. I don't know where I said this either because it has helped sell them on Verizon.
It sold well to the geek segment - but that's where it was targeted. The mainstream consumer, whose huge mass and average tastes drive the economy of this country DIDN'T LIKE IT. It turned them off.
I guess that's where that 100,000+ activations per day and rising thing came from huh?
Fortunately some of the phone makers took a different route and made commercials targeted at the mainstream consumer and sold more there in smaller overall percentages than the Blackberry, or the iPhone but greater volumes than the Droid. So much for your argument.
As I mentioned I haven't seen any market research, but just from reading tech blogs and industry publications, word on the street has it that the Droid has been a pretty big success.
Really. Naw.
UPDATE: well doggone it you were RIGHT!!! OTOH, I was going for encouragement and support not smug - could it be you have the wrong logic filters in place for reading here? Many people like the poster have issues like this and feel, unconsciously it seems for most, inadequate or overwhelmed by cynicism, pessimism and Apple product excellence. The reaction is as you have seen lamentable and completely correctable with the right amount of support and encouragement - which was what I was offering the poor soul. WHo probably was feeling pretty good until you butted in and spoiled the situation. Good going buttinsky!
Yep, it's condescension.
Dude... you are trolling an Apple fan site, none of us here, including yourself, qualify as your "average person" or your average consumer. Average people don't spend a whole day trying to buy a phone on the first day, post in Apple or Android forums, or give a crap about the platforms, and they certainly don't stake their self worth in the triumph of one phone eco-system over another. Your clique might count the days until the next release of a particular "Google phone" but mainstream consumers (mainstream would be 80% of the bell curve, this excludes early adopters like yourself and most people posting in this thread) don't refer to Android phones as "Google phones." That is a very intentional result by the Ph.Ds at Google and the handset manufacturers. Further these mainstream consumers are not buying into an ideology of Open vs Curated applications, frankly they don't know the difference nor should they care.
Sorry, but they are referring to them as Google phones or Android or Droid. And I never once mentioned anything about open vs. curated.
Also for everyone complaining about Apple and AT&T's servers, there was no way either of them could have expected the amount of traffic for preorders today. They sold out of what has to be millions of preorder devices in less than a day. What else did you expect?
That is completely false. Let's look at the facts:
1. Apple sold 1,000,000 3GS phones in the first three days. Each 3GS sale included the purchase of the phone AND activation. That was almost certainly front-weighted, so something more than 333,000 were sold on the first day - including activation. IIRC, all of those were AT&T. For the Iphone 4, they sold 600,000 on the first day, but not all were AT&T. Even if we say 80% were AT&T, that means 480,000 - but no activation was involved, so it's not that far out of line.
2. The problems were largely self-inflicted. Because AT&T's servers crashed rather than gracefully handling the overflow, people had to re-apply over and over and over again. AT&T says they processed 13,000,000 verification requests, but only sold something like 480,000 phones. Their crappy system caused them to do 20 times as much work as was actually needed.
3. As said above, Apple sold 1 M 3GS phones in 3 days. Once again, 600,000 iPhone 4s were sold on the first day, BUT AT&T's ordering system has been shut down since then. So, over the 3 day period, AT&T processed LESS orders this year than last year (even considering the fact that last year's sales included activation). Clearly "no one could have predicted the response' doesn't fly when sales were lower over the 3 day period this year than last year.
4. The really sad thing is that ALL of AT&T's systems are down now. You can't order a different phone, either -- THREE DAYS after the meltdown. Clearly, they have incompetent system management.
My own experience was even worse - I wanted to merge 2 lines and get 3 phone upgrades (only 1 is an iPhone 4). It took me 3 visits to AT&T stores, multiple phone calls (I've talked to at least 10 people on the phone now in addition to the store visits), hours on hold, and I STILL haven't been able to order any of the upgrade phones (except, ironically, the iPhone 4).
AT&T's handling has been irresponsible and unjustifiable.
1) Explain that: To better serve you, this is a pre-order process, subject to after-the-fact validation with ATT."
2) Gather the data and place the pre-order.
3) Acknowledge the pre-order immediately, via email.
4) Perform after-the-fact validation with ATT
5) Send pre-order validation acknowledgement within 24 hours (with link)
6) Customer has 24 hours to accept pre-order terms, resolve issues (with already captured information), or let order expire.