In March, when Steam for Mac was announced, Valve told AppleInsider that it worked closely with Apple to bring the client natively to the Mac.
"We've been working with them a bunch as we get more acquainted with their platform," said John Cook, director of Steam development at Valve. "They've been a great partner so far and we look forward to growing our relationship with them over time."
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
What do you need a two year old 280 GTX for? You only have to pay £2000 to get access to a 2 year old card.
Much better instead to get the *whoo new mini with its integrated crappics for £650.
Apple twice the price for hardware that performs twice as bad as the PC equivalent...with *poor Open GL drivers.
Lemon Bon Bon.
There is actually one high end card that you can get from Nvidia that you can buy on your own for the Mac Pro. Its a GTX 285. Only problem is you have to run Windows in bootcamp to take full advantage of it....lol.
Y'know, even with rbarris' word on it, I don't believe for a second that Apple is suddenly, magically becoming Not-Apple and contributing any effort towards Mac gaming.
Well, they must be 'cheeeeeeeeeeap' PC to 'mid' PCs because I see plenty of PCs packing more that 256 VU ram.
Often cost more than a Mac..?
Only if you post on these forums and block out reality and tell yourself that a million times.
But in the real world...
Lemon Bon Bon.
I can assure you that they are not standard. The poster said 1GB DDR5 cards are standard. Cheap PCs these days may have 512MB but not 1GB and not DDR5.
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
Apple is working with another company to get their software to run better in OSX? NO WAY! What about all those cries from people that said Apple should never have to do this, and it's Adobe's fault that Flash sucks in OSX?
OBVIOUSLY I WAS CORRECT ALL ALONG
lmfao! It's like he's not even trying.
GDDR5 isn't standard on PC video cards. It's just there. In fact, doesn't the GTX 280 have a Mac counterpart that uses GDDR5?
Apple's working on improving the way APPLE'S APIs work on the system, to improve it for OTHER developers to use. Apple is NOT developing their API's FOR them.
Adobe is responsible for their own issues in their own software. The problem with Flash is not problems in Apple's APIs, its Adobe's lack of interest in making a half decent version of Flash for Mac. Apple can't do another company's work for them.
There is actually one high end card that you can get from Nvidia that you can buy on your own for the Mac Pro. Its a GTX 285. Only problem is you have to run Windows in bootcamp to take full advantage of it....lol.
Actually, 285 GTX is not really a high end card these days.
I can assure you that they are not standard. The poster said 1GB DDR5 cards are standard. Cheap PCs these days may have 512MB but not 1GB and not DDR5.
...and here! (All but one of the GPU options have 1 gig of Vram on.)
Not standard. If they're not, they nearly bloody well are. In PC World you can get rigs with GPUs offering 1 gig of Vram. That's pretty much mainstream.
Also, note the 6 core desktop while Apple quietly tout their 'fanny' of an update Mac 'mini.'
6 core is on the PC side for less than a grand. Yet on Apple? You have to pay about £1500 to get someone that has been standard ie quad core, on PCs for years.
Laughs.
Open GL performance has sucked for one reason or another for years on the Mac. As has gaming performance, as has gpu cards included in the mini and iMac, as have the gpu cards on an expensive Mac Pro (and then only as yet another option to buy...) often with less vram than 'standard' on the PC side.
Credit Valve for dragging Mac gaming kicking and screaming from the Dark Ages to the 21st Century. But it's still a painful road ahead when Macs are about 100% behind on eg a Mac Pro with the 'add on' card you ponied £2300 for minus a monitor!
I've been rooting for Mac Gaming for some time.
Apple just need to get off their lazy ass and push it. Offer better gpus as options. Build a goddamn mini-tower instead of that aborted biscuit tin they call a 'mini.'
Apple just need to get off their lazy ass and push it. Offer better gpus as options. Build a goddamn mini-tower instead of that aborted biscuit tin they call a 'mini.'
I've been rooting for some time, as well.
But Steve's "Apple is now a mobile devices company" statement has finally deflated my hopes.
If Apple is working on software to improve gaming, it will probably be focused more on iPhone 4's 6-axis gyro, and the next generation iPad. \
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
From what I have read in forums and posts Steam (and Valve games on the Mac) are Mac native binaries and are not using some sort of virtualisation like Cider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
As does every other Mac port.
That's not the case. I have worked on Mac games (from the PC or console) for a Mac game developer/publisher and have seen well over 20 ports first hand and every port I have worked on is a 100% native Mac application, at no point does any binary translations take place. The only ports that do it that way (as far as I know) are ones based on Cider tech or similar design methodologies.
Apple's working on improving the way APPLE'S APIs work on the system, to improve it for OTHER developers to use. Apple is NOT developing their API's FOR them.
Adobe is responsible for their own issues in their own software. The problem with Flash is not problems in Apple's APIs, its Adobe's lack of interest in making a half decent version of Flash for Mac. Apple can't do another company's work for them.
Well that was my first thought, too, when I read the headline. I don't quite care who's responsibility Flash performance on the Mac is, it would be nice to see some more cooperation.
$139 with 1gig of DDR5 and DX11/Open GL 3.2 support.
You do realize that aftermarket video cards are a drop in the ocean compared to how many computers come with shitty Intel IGPs right? Yes, there are people who build their own systems or buy a new vcard to upgrade a system they bought, but that is a huge minority compared to people who buy computers with shit IGPs, who never upgrade (hell most don't even get their Windows updates installed) and who just throw it away in a couple of years and buy a new one.
So no, 1GB DDR5 is NOT standard on purchased pcs. Shitty Intel IGP is standard.
They have more than a few employees and will fix gaming and the ordering system in parallel.
This is great news that Apple is taking gaming seriously after many decades of not doing so. The hope is Apple will put some engineers on OpenGL and make it a better gaming set of APIs than DirectX. Here's hoping!
I doubt it. Gaming is 80% consoles (xbox, ps3/ps2, will, DS, PSP) 19% PC gaming, 1% everything else.
There is no money in gaming on the Mac. Steam did it simply to grow steam as much as possible. You cant hardly find PC or Mac games in any retail stores now, Game stop has maybe a few titles, Bestbuy a few...maybe Walmart. Steam is the defacto standard for PC's these days. So steam is capitilizing on that 19% of gamers and maximizing it as much as possbile by including Mac's.
There is an Open GL 4? Didn't know about that. Does the latest shader support in GL 4 give Direct X parity?
Comparing the screen quality on Anand tech site showed a slight visual nod to Direct X.
Either down to Apple's drivers and/or lack of latest GL support.
*thought. Do we have to wait until OS.7 to get Open GL 4?
We could be in for a looooooong wait.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm guessing we'll have to wait until 10.7 to just get full 3.0 support, let alone 4.0. Apple still has a ways to go in 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 support before they even think about 4.0.
And from what I hear, yes OGL 4.0 will match DX11.
Comments
No it's not... at least not on the cheap to mid PCs. Only high end gaming PCs have that and those machines often cost more than a Mac.
All being said though it's going to get real interesting for Mac gaming in the next year or so.
Well, they must be 'cheeeeeeeeeeap' PC to 'mid' PCs because I see plenty of PCs packing more that 256 VU ram.
Often cost more than a Mac..?
Only if you post on these forums and block out reality and tell yourself that a million times.
But in the real world...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple doesn't offer anything even remotely close to the GTX 280 and that card is about 2 years old already.
No kidding.
What do you need a two year old 280 GTX for? You only have to pay £2000 to get access to a 2 year old card.
Much better instead to get the *whoo new mini with its integrated crappics for £650.
Apple twice the price for hardware that performs twice as bad as the PC equivalent...with *poor Open GL drivers.
Lemon Bon Bon.
In March, when Steam for Mac was announced, Valve told AppleInsider that it worked closely with Apple to bring the client natively to the Mac.
"We've been working with them a bunch as we get more acquainted with their platform," said John Cook, director of Steam development at Valve. "They've been a great partner so far and we look forward to growing our relationship with them over time."
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
No kidding.
What do you need a two year old 280 GTX for? You only have to pay £2000 to get access to a 2 year old card.
Much better instead to get the *whoo new mini with its integrated crappics for £650.
Apple twice the price for hardware that performs twice as bad as the PC equivalent...with *poor Open GL drivers.
Lemon Bon Bon.
There is actually one high end card that you can get from Nvidia that you can buy on your own for the Mac Pro. Its a GTX 285. Only problem is you have to run Windows in bootcamp to take full advantage of it....lol.
Y'know, even with rbarris' word on it, I don't believe for a second that Apple is suddenly, magically becoming Not-Apple and contributing any effort towards Mac gaming.
Wager?
Well, they must be 'cheeeeeeeeeeap' PC to 'mid' PCs because I see plenty of PCs packing more that 256 VU ram.
Often cost more than a Mac..?
Only if you post on these forums and block out reality and tell yourself that a million times.
But in the real world...
Lemon Bon Bon.
I can assure you that they are not standard. The poster said 1GB DDR5 cards are standard. Cheap PCs these days may have 512MB but not 1GB and not DDR5.
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
As does every other Mac port.
Apple is working with another company to get their software to run better in OSX? NO WAY! What about all those cries from people that said Apple should never have to do this, and it's Adobe's fault that Flash sucks in OSX?
OBVIOUSLY I WAS CORRECT ALL ALONG
lmfao! It's like he's not even trying.
GDDR5 isn't standard on PC video cards. It's just there. In fact, doesn't the GTX 280 have a Mac counterpart that uses GDDR5?
Apple's working on improving the way APPLE'S APIs work on the system, to improve it for OTHER developers to use. Apple is NOT developing their API's FOR them.
Adobe is responsible for their own issues in their own software. The problem with Flash is not problems in Apple's APIs, its Adobe's lack of interest in making a half decent version of Flash for Mac. Apple can't do another company's work for them.
There is actually one high end card that you can get from Nvidia that you can buy on your own for the Mac Pro. Its a GTX 285. Only problem is you have to run Windows in bootcamp to take full advantage of it....lol.
Actually, 285 GTX is not really a high end card these days.
I can assure you that they are not standard. The poster said 1GB DDR5 cards are standard. Cheap PCs these days may have 512MB but not 1GB and not DDR5.
LOL. Your 'assurances' are like sand.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=FS-237-OK
...here.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=FS-021-OP
...and here! (All but one of the GPU options have 1 gig of Vram on.)
Not standard. If they're not, they nearly bloody well are. In PC World you can get rigs with GPUs offering 1 gig of Vram. That's pretty much mainstream.
Also, note the 6 core desktop while Apple quietly tout their 'fanny' of an update Mac 'mini.'
6 core is on the PC side for less than a grand. Yet on Apple? You have to pay about £1500 to get someone that has been standard ie quad core, on PCs for years.
Laughs.
Open GL performance has sucked for one reason or another for years on the Mac. As has gaming performance, as has gpu cards included in the mini and iMac, as have the gpu cards on an expensive Mac Pro (and then only as yet another option to buy...) often with less vram than 'standard' on the PC side.
Credit Valve for dragging Mac gaming kicking and screaming from the Dark Ages to the 21st Century. But it's still a painful road ahead when Macs are about 100% behind on eg a Mac Pro with the 'add on' card you ponied £2300 for minus a monitor!
I've been rooting for Mac Gaming for some time.
Apple just need to get off their lazy ass and push it. Offer better gpus as options. Build a goddamn mini-tower instead of that aborted biscuit tin they call a 'mini.'
Lemon Bon Bon.
Actually, 285 GTX is not really a high end card these days.
Yeah. And you can put it in a rig that cost less than half the price of the 'pro'.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Not completely, they're still on OpenGL shading language 1.2. The one in OpenGL 3.0 is 1.3, the latest is 4.0, it's from OpenGL 4.0 :P
There is an Open GL 4? Didn't know about that. Does the latest shader support in GL 4 give Direct X parity?
Comparing the screen quality on Anand tech site showed a slight visual nod to Direct X.
Either down to Apple's drivers and/or lack of latest GL support.
*thought. Do we have to wait until OS.7 to get Open GL 4?
We could be in for a looooooong wait.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I've been rooting for Mac Gaming for some time.
Apple just need to get off their lazy ass and push it. Offer better gpus as options. Build a goddamn mini-tower instead of that aborted biscuit tin they call a 'mini.'
I've been rooting for some time, as well.
But Steve's "Apple is now a mobile devices company" statement has finally deflated my hopes.
If Apple is working on software to improve gaming, it will probably be focused more on iPhone 4's 6-axis gyro, and the next generation iPad.
This is a funny quote. Steam essentially uses a binary translator to map from dx9 to opengl... there's nothing "native" about that. Maybe the steam client app menus are native?
From what I have read in forums and posts Steam (and Valve games on the Mac) are Mac native binaries and are not using some sort of virtualisation like Cider.
As does every other Mac port.
That's not the case. I have worked on Mac games (from the PC or console) for a Mac game developer/publisher and have seen well over 20 ports first hand and every port I have worked on is a 100% native Mac application, at no point does any binary translations take place. The only ports that do it that way (as far as I know) are ones based on Cider tech or similar design methodologies.
Edwin
Apple's working on improving the way APPLE'S APIs work on the system, to improve it for OTHER developers to use. Apple is NOT developing their API's FOR them.
Adobe is responsible for their own issues in their own software. The problem with Flash is not problems in Apple's APIs, its Adobe's lack of interest in making a half decent version of Flash for Mac. Apple can't do another company's work for them.
Well that was my first thought, too, when I read the headline. I don't quite care who's responsibility Flash performance on the Mac is, it would be nice to see some more cooperation.
No it's not... at least not on the cheap to mid PCs. Only high end gaming PCs have that and those machines often cost more than a Mac.
All being said though it's going to get real interesting for Mac gaming in the next year or so.
Your so wrong its not even funny. My brother just bought this...
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0328135
$139 with 1gig of DDR5 and DX11/Open GL 3.2 support.
Your so wrong its not even funny. My brother just bought this...
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0328135
$139 with 1gig of DDR5 and DX11/Open GL 3.2 support.
You do realize that aftermarket video cards are a drop in the ocean compared to how many computers come with shitty Intel IGPs right? Yes, there are people who build their own systems or buy a new vcard to upgrade a system they bought, but that is a huge minority compared to people who buy computers with shit IGPs, who never upgrade (hell most don't even get their Windows updates installed) and who just throw it away in a couple of years and buy a new one.
So no, 1GB DDR5 is NOT standard on purchased pcs. Shitty Intel IGP is standard.
They have more than a few employees and will fix gaming and the ordering system in parallel.
This is great news that Apple is taking gaming seriously after many decades of not doing so. The hope is Apple will put some engineers on OpenGL and make it a better gaming set of APIs than DirectX. Here's hoping!
I doubt it. Gaming is 80% consoles (xbox, ps3/ps2, will, DS, PSP) 19% PC gaming, 1% everything else.
There is no money in gaming on the Mac. Steam did it simply to grow steam as much as possible. You cant hardly find PC or Mac games in any retail stores now, Game stop has maybe a few titles, Bestbuy a few...maybe Walmart. Steam is the defacto standard for PC's these days. So steam is capitilizing on that 19% of gamers and maximizing it as much as possbile by including Mac's.
Apple cares about iOS games first and foremost.
There is an Open GL 4? Didn't know about that. Does the latest shader support in GL 4 give Direct X parity?
Comparing the screen quality on Anand tech site showed a slight visual nod to Direct X.
Either down to Apple's drivers and/or lack of latest GL support.
*thought. Do we have to wait until OS.7 to get Open GL 4?
We could be in for a looooooong wait.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I'm guessing we'll have to wait until 10.7 to just get full 3.0 support, let alone 4.0. Apple still has a ways to go in 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 support before they even think about 4.0.
And from what I hear, yes OGL 4.0 will match DX11.