How you feel about things outside of yourself usually reflects how you view yourself.
just sayin
sigh. i guess you got me champ. you win the grade school stuff.
getting back to the actual point of the post. it reminds me of what they did with the 1st gen unibody macbook pros where the mini-dp was positioned to the right of the usb ports simply because it looked really pretty to have all of the ports descending in size from left to right (and yeah, it did look really pretty). what nobody realised is that min-dp cable would be running backwards away from the machine, totally blocking access to the 2 usb ports. clever.
obviously they received enough complaints about this for them to switch it in the later revisions.
Apple are great, i love their stuff, i buy it. But they're not perfect. they do dumb things. and the dumb things are often "form over function" type stuff.
putting stuff that you will need to access from time to time on the back of a device that is clearly intended to sit in a home entertainment unit (for a signficant proportion of users) is a dumb decision.
it makes me a little sad to say it, but unfortunately it's true.
It may be real, but I wouldn't trust that listing. There are plenty such adapters on Amazon that list having Audio with many posting that it doesn't AND they have one of the correct Macs.
it did get me to find an Apple authorized mDP-to-HDMI adapter that does support audio. Of course, it's pricer than even their Apple-branded adapters. I'll get one just in case, but only from Monoprice as I really don't need it and I'm not willing to spend over $10 for it.
Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.
Who would buy this machine? People who need a matte screen, but not the horsepower or expense of a MacPro.
Now, the new mini IS overpriced and I wouldn't even consider it IF Apple OFFERED THE IMAC IN MATTE. There's no reason Apple can't at least offer a BTO option....
Love the look and features of the new mac mini. Considered buying one (or two?) for my kids until I saw that price. They can live with their Eee Box a little longer.
...I have to think Apple knows it's consumer base better than we do.
No, they don't. If Apple did, they would sell far more computers than any other manufacturer. Fact is they still offer quite poor value for money simply because Mr. Jobs cannot bear the thought of plebs or peasants as Dow Chemical, Procter & Gamble, Wal-Mart and the like, prefer to call people in the lower income bracket.
sigh. i guess you got me champ. you win the grade school stuff.
getting back to the actual point of the post. it reminds me of what they did with the 1st gen unibody macbook pros where the mini-dp was positioned to the right of the usb ports simply because it looked really pretty to have all of the ports descending in size from left to right (and yeah, it did look really pretty). what nobody realised is that min-dp cable would be running backwards away from the machine, totally blocking access to the 2 usb ports. clever.
obviously they received enough complaints about this for them to switch it in the later revisions.
Apple are great, i love their stuff, i buy it. But they're not perfect. they do dumb things. and the dumb things are often "form over function" type stuff.
putting stuff that you will need to access from time to time on the back of a device that is clearly intended to sit in a home entertainment unit (for a signficant proportion of users) is a dumb decision.it makes me a little sad to say it, but unfortunately it's true.
Calm down, just giving you a hard time.But I do think your gripes are quite silly. I have a mac mini and it does sit on my entertainment center. When I turn it on (which is quite rare because I don't turn it off that often) it's a pretty easy endeavor. I imagine the sd slot will be painless as well. So are you saying you would prefer all the cables hanging from the front?
And what if this new milling process is part of their long term plan and it's 1) very expensive right now because it's having to work inside of a closed shell, or 2) makes it so they can currently only produce a fraction of the models they could for old style Mac Mini? Both of those are reasons to have a higher price point.
Profit margins are not some static entity. They are designed with the market demand in mind. Anything else is just bad business, unless it's done during a civil emergency for a required commodity in which the seller is breaking the law*.
* Please don't argue that the Mac MIni is price gouging because people should be able to have an affordable Mac.
I am not arguing the Mac mini is not value for money. It looks a well designed and well built product. However, its original objective was to be an easy way for Windows users, who maybe have started using Apple products such as the iPod, to switch to using Macs. The Mac mini didn't even come with a keyboard or mouse so they could keep costs down. Even if a new milled case and better specs justify the cost (and maybe they do), adding an extra $100 to the base price makes it much less likely existing Windows users will now consider a Mac. In addition, Windows 7 had a pretty successful launch without all the negativity Vista received and the Get a Mac commercials have ended. I have to wonder if Apple has given up trying to bring new users to the Mac and is instead focusing purely on iOS devices for future growth?
No, they don't. If Apple did, they would sell far more computers than any other manufacturer. Fact is they still offer quite poor value for money simply because Mr. Jobs cannot bear the thought of plebs or peasants as Dow Chemical, Procter & Gamble, Wal-Mart and the like, prefer to call people in the lower income bracket.
Are you sure Apple's in the business of selling MORE computers than anyone else? If you think so then you might want to tell them that since their focus seems to be to make more money than anyone else.
By jacking up the price, Apple has made the mini a lot less attractive. Are they getting greedy? Do they really need high margins on this thing? The mini is about cost effectiveness. Its supposed to be a low cost way to get you into the Apple camp... But at $700? Come on, I can get an iMac for just a little more. Even if they want to pitch this as a media center, its overpriced. For example,
you can get a BD player with Netflix streaming for under $200. The Boxee Box is probably going to be around $200. A PS3 box which plays BlueRay disks and does Netflix is under $500.
Exactly. I read a quote from Apple on macworld.co.uk concerning the SD card slot on the back, along the lines of "the size of the Mini constrains where we can put ports" as if that was an adequate excuse. Who exactly held the gun to Apple's head and forced them to make the Mini the height that it is?
The beginnings of the design process should have been:
Optical drive slot, SD card slot, 3.5 mm audio in and out jacks on front (possibly audio in/out on side)
Same footprint as AppleTV
Now, what's the minimum height we can make it to satisfy our design goals?
But no, overlord Steve wants everything to be as thin as possible, even if that means compromising usability and even if it's a bloody desktop machine!
My instincts tell me that they never even considered adding the slot on the front or having a USB on the front either. That goes against their design ethos as the other consumer level stuff has nothing on the front other than indicator lights. Apple is as Apple does.
I am not arguing the Mac mini is not value for money. It looks a well designed and well built product. However, its original objective was to be an easy way for Windows users, who maybe have started using Apple products such as the iPod, to switch to using Macs. The Mac mini didn't even come with a keyboard or mouse so they could keep costs down. Even if a new milled case and better specs justify the cost (and maybe they do), adding an extra $100 to the base price makes it much less likely existing Windows users will now consider a Mac. In addition, Windows 7 had a pretty successful launch without all the negativity Vista received and the Get a Mac commercials have ended. I have to wonder if Apple has given up trying to bring new users to the Mac and is instead focusing purely on iOS devices for future growth?
Maybe they switched their focus for the device. I really have no idea but the least likely reason seems to be that they have made a huge mistake and have no idea who buys the Mac Mini.
I'm analyzed the frak out of this machine. It's not just about the mid-2010 Mac MIni. You also have to consider their plans for the future of the Mac Mini. They have a road map for it and it seems to me that C2D can't withstand more than two (and maybe just one) more upgrade. That means Core-i + Intel HD as there is no room for a dGPU, its fan and the PSU is probably not powerful enough as is. They could remove the optical drive to make the needed room. Or they could switch to AMD+ATI for these smaller machines.
One thing seems certain, they designed this case and went through the trouble of milling it from a solid piece of aluminium not for some single release product. It will be with us for quite awhile, I imagine.
Regardless of the future of Apple TV, the Mac mini offers a more powerful features, including support for DVR software (providing TiVo-like functionality)
Can a Mac Mini really provide TiVo-like functionality? Does it have a tuner card?
If not, how does that work? How does it get TV input to record on the hard drive?
Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.
Such a shame, it's beautiful but priced by a retard I think, either that or Apple assumes its customers are stupid!
I don't think many Mini customers know anything about RAM, the CPU or the GPU. If they already have a computer, they already have the peripherals.
And remember, the original PowerPC mini was only $499. The switch to Intel added $100 to the base price and now they've tacked on another $100. So a 40% increase in what, 5 years?
Bad Apple!
Their stock price has climbed greatly during that period of time.
Even if most people bought the more expensive option, having a cheap base version is good for marketing purposes. "From $499" sounds a lot better than "From $699" even if the majority of folks immediately opt for the faster CPU and more memory and actually pay closer to $699.
Also $699 and you have to provide your own keyboard, mouse and monitor. You are probably better off buying a Macbook.
Apple doesn't go for the el-cheapo market. Apple doesn't know how to make a good $499 computer.
And if the Mini isn't for you, Apple can sell you a different Mac. Problem solved.
So it seems. However, a really good BluRay player cost several hundreds of dollars. Adding a BluRay drive to the Mini would work, but the video output quality would surely be lacking. No room for the necessary processing video chips.
Comments
How you feel about things outside of yourself usually reflects how you view yourself.
just sayin
sigh. i guess you got me champ. you win the grade school stuff.
getting back to the actual point of the post. it reminds me of what they did with the 1st gen unibody macbook pros where the mini-dp was positioned to the right of the usb ports simply because it looked really pretty to have all of the ports descending in size from left to right (and yeah, it did look really pretty). what nobody realised is that min-dp cable would be running backwards away from the machine, totally blocking access to the 2 usb ports. clever.
obviously they received enough complaints about this for them to switch it in the later revisions.
Apple are great, i love their stuff, i buy it. But they're not perfect. they do dumb things. and the dumb things are often "form over function" type stuff.
putting stuff that you will need to access from time to time on the back of a device that is clearly intended to sit in a home entertainment unit (for a signficant proportion of users) is a dumb decision.
it makes me a little sad to say it, but unfortunately it's true.
This one says it supports audio.
It may be real, but I wouldn't trust that listing. There are plenty such adapters on Amazon that list having Audio with many posting that it doesn't AND they have one of the correct Macs.
it did get me to find an Apple authorized mDP-to-HDMI adapter that does support audio. Of course, it's pricer than even their Apple-branded adapters. I'll get one just in case, but only from Monoprice as I really don't need it and I'm not willing to spend over $10 for it.
Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.
Who would buy this machine? People who need a matte screen, but not the horsepower or expense of a MacPro.
Now, the new mini IS overpriced and I wouldn't even consider it IF Apple OFFERED THE IMAC IN MATTE. There's no reason Apple can't at least offer a BTO option....
...I have to think Apple knows it's consumer base better than we do.
No, they don't. If Apple did, they would sell far more computers than any other manufacturer. Fact is they still offer quite poor value for money simply because Mr. Jobs cannot bear the thought of plebs or peasants as Dow Chemical, Procter & Gamble, Wal-Mart and the like, prefer to call people in the lower income bracket.
sigh. i guess you got me champ. you win the grade school stuff.
getting back to the actual point of the post. it reminds me of what they did with the 1st gen unibody macbook pros where the mini-dp was positioned to the right of the usb ports simply because it looked really pretty to have all of the ports descending in size from left to right (and yeah, it did look really pretty). what nobody realised is that min-dp cable would be running backwards away from the machine, totally blocking access to the 2 usb ports. clever.
obviously they received enough complaints about this for them to switch it in the later revisions.
Apple are great, i love their stuff, i buy it. But they're not perfect. they do dumb things. and the dumb things are often "form over function" type stuff.
putting stuff that you will need to access from time to time on the back of a device that is clearly intended to sit in a home entertainment unit (for a signficant proportion of users) is a dumb decision.it makes me a little sad to say it, but unfortunately it's true.
Calm down, just giving you a hard time.But I do think your gripes are quite silly. I have a mac mini and it does sit on my entertainment center. When I turn it on (which is quite rare because I don't turn it off that often) it's a pretty easy endeavor. I imagine the sd slot will be painless as well. So are you saying you would prefer all the cables hanging from the front?
And what if this new milling process is part of their long term plan and it's 1) very expensive right now because it's having to work inside of a closed shell, or 2) makes it so they can currently only produce a fraction of the models they could for old style Mac Mini? Both of those are reasons to have a higher price point.
Profit margins are not some static entity. They are designed with the market demand in mind. Anything else is just bad business, unless it's done during a civil emergency for a required commodity in which the seller is breaking the law*.
* Please don't argue that the Mac MIni is price gouging because people should be able to have an affordable Mac.
I am not arguing the Mac mini is not value for money. It looks a well designed and well built product. However, its original objective was to be an easy way for Windows users, who maybe have started using Apple products such as the iPod, to switch to using Macs. The Mac mini didn't even come with a keyboard or mouse so they could keep costs down. Even if a new milled case and better specs justify the cost (and maybe they do), adding an extra $100 to the base price makes it much less likely existing Windows users will now consider a Mac. In addition, Windows 7 had a pretty successful launch without all the negativity Vista received and the Get a Mac commercials have ended. I have to wonder if Apple has given up trying to bring new users to the Mac and is instead focusing purely on iOS devices for future growth?
No, they don't. If Apple did, they would sell far more computers than any other manufacturer. Fact is they still offer quite poor value for money simply because Mr. Jobs cannot bear the thought of plebs or peasants as Dow Chemical, Procter & Gamble, Wal-Mart and the like, prefer to call people in the lower income bracket.
Are you sure Apple's in the business of selling MORE computers than anyone else? If you think so then you might want to tell them that since their focus seems to be to make more money than anyone else.
you can get a BD player with Netflix streaming for under $200. The Boxee Box is probably going to be around $200. A PS3 box which plays BlueRay disks and does Netflix is under $500.
So, what are they thinking?
Hmmm, remember the Cube?
Exactly. I read a quote from Apple on macworld.co.uk concerning the SD card slot on the back, along the lines of "the size of the Mini constrains where we can put ports" as if that was an adequate excuse. Who exactly held the gun to Apple's head and forced them to make the Mini the height that it is?
The beginnings of the design process should have been:
- Optical drive slot, SD card slot, 3.5 mm audio in and out jacks on front (possibly audio in/out on side)
- Same footprint as AppleTV
- Now, what's the minimum height we can make it to satisfy our design goals?
But no, overlord Steve wants everything to be as thin as possible, even if that means compromising usability and even if it's a bloody desktop machine!My instincts tell me that they never even considered adding the slot on the front or having a USB on the front either. That goes against their design ethos as the other consumer level stuff has nothing on the front other than indicator lights. Apple is as Apple does.
I am not arguing the Mac mini is not value for money. It looks a well designed and well built product. However, its original objective was to be an easy way for Windows users, who maybe have started using Apple products such as the iPod, to switch to using Macs. The Mac mini didn't even come with a keyboard or mouse so they could keep costs down. Even if a new milled case and better specs justify the cost (and maybe they do), adding an extra $100 to the base price makes it much less likely existing Windows users will now consider a Mac. In addition, Windows 7 had a pretty successful launch without all the negativity Vista received and the Get a Mac commercials have ended. I have to wonder if Apple has given up trying to bring new users to the Mac and is instead focusing purely on iOS devices for future growth?
Maybe they switched their focus for the device. I really have no idea but the least likely reason seems to be that they have made a huge mistake and have no idea who buys the Mac Mini.
I'm analyzed the frak out of this machine. It's not just about the mid-2010 Mac MIni. You also have to consider their plans for the future of the Mac Mini. They have a road map for it and it seems to me that C2D can't withstand more than two (and maybe just one) more upgrade. That means Core-i + Intel HD as there is no room for a dGPU, its fan and the PSU is probably not powerful enough as is. They could remove the optical drive to make the needed room. Or they could switch to AMD+ATI for these smaller machines.
One thing seems certain, they designed this case and went through the trouble of milling it from a solid piece of aluminium not for some single release product. It will be with us for quite awhile, I imagine.
PS: It's just a joke, but have you seen my sig.
Regardless of the future of Apple TV, the Mac mini offers a more powerful features, including support for DVR software (providing TiVo-like functionality)
Can a Mac Mini really provide TiVo-like functionality? Does it have a tuner card?
If not, how does that work? How does it get TV input to record on the hard drive?
Yes, way to expensive now, in the UK you get the 21.5" iMac for just £250 more, honeslty who would buy this machine when you get double the ram, a better cpu/gpu, KB & Mouse and screen for that little bit more.
Such a shame, it's beautiful but priced by a retard I think, either that or Apple assumes its customers are stupid!
I don't think many Mini customers know anything about RAM, the CPU or the GPU. If they already have a computer, they already have the peripherals.
I could never justify buying it. It's underpowered for the price.
Then get the server model.
I don't think many Mini customers know anything about RAM, the CPU or the GPU. If they already have a computer, they already have the peripherals.
That's a salient point. These specs only seem to matter to us. Everyone else seems to only care about not fast enough and fast enough.
And remember, the original PowerPC mini was only $499. The switch to Intel added $100 to the base price and now they've tacked on another $100. So a 40% increase in what, 5 years?
Bad Apple!
Their stock price has climbed greatly during that period of time.
Even if most people bought the more expensive option, having a cheap base version is good for marketing purposes. "From $499" sounds a lot better than "From $699" even if the majority of folks immediately opt for the faster CPU and more memory and actually pay closer to $699.
Also $699 and you have to provide your own keyboard, mouse and monitor. You are probably better off buying a Macbook.
Apple doesn't go for the el-cheapo market. Apple doesn't know how to make a good $499 computer.
And if the Mini isn't for you, Apple can sell you a different Mac. Problem solved.
At this price, It should have a blu-ray drive.
So it seems. However, a really good BluRay player cost several hundreds of dollars. Adding a BluRay drive to the Mini would work, but the video output quality would surely be lacking. No room for the necessary processing video chips.
Their stock price has climbed greatly during that period of time.
But that is primarily due to their phone business, not their computer business.
PS: It's just a joke, but have you seen my sig.
Saw it. Liked it. But it does have the ring of truth about it. I wonder how long it is before OS-X is just for power users?
BTW it is possible the case design (maybe different height versions) is also intended for future AppleTVs and Timed Capsules as well as the Mac Mini.
Apple doesn't go for the el-cheapo market.
And by putting up the price by $100 they are making that abundantly clear to everyone.
And if the Mini isn't for you, Apple can sell you a different Mac. Problem solved.
Or more likely people will stick with Windows.