First look: Apple' new unibody Mac mini

145791012

Comments

  • Reply 121 of 239
    cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post


    Is the server software somehow tied to the mini hardware? Or could I buy the new mini, put OS X server on my old mini (which currently runs OS X Server 10.5) and use the new mini as a more powerful desktop?



    I don't know.



    I'm not sure how Apple authors the installation recovery disks that ship with a system (i.e., whether or not they're only compatible with the latest hardware or not). Without a doubt, they are not generic OS X installation disks.
  • Reply 122 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    The only hardware you can't get on less expensive Dell or HP computers is the optical audio ins and outs. Since I'm not doing music recording those features go unused on my Mac Book. If you are curious about configuring an HP or Dell you can visit their sites and configure your own towers. It takes a while to do and I'm not doing it again just to post it here. Just visit their sites and look at the available hardware.



    Regarding putting Snow Leopard on my Mac Book, your powers have failed you. You are not yet a Jedi.



    That's not the only HW difference, by a long shot. I assume your comparison was based on rudimentary performance and capacity specs, not actually comparing the HW.



    What I don't get about this argument is if you are going to go that route then why not just build your own machine. You get even better HW for even less money. The idea of having a vendor build you their PC adds substantial cost and it appears by this thread that making a profit is the work of the devil.
  • Reply 123 of 239
    onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    The only hardware you can't get on less expensive Dell or HP computers is the optical audio ins and outs. Since I'm not doing music recording those features go unused on my Mac Book. If you are curious about configuring an HP or Dell you can visit their sites and configure your own towers. It takes a while to do and I'm not doing it again just to post it here. Just visit their sites and look at the available hardware.



    Regarding putting Snow Leopard on my Mac Book, your powers have failed you. You are not yet a Jedi.



    You didn't as you said,
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    Tonight I went to HP and Dell sites and priced their computers with equivalent hardware.



    Because you can't. Without the parts list, let alone the Schematics, detailed block diagrams, and detailed operational descriptions,* you can't even start. Only Apple or the FCC could.



    *Items the FCC usually keep confidential and surely Apple is not about to disclose them http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Global/...ity_policy.pdf



    And regarding Snow Leopard, have you not installed it on your MacBook?
  • Reply 124 of 239
    I like how the new mac mini looks and stuff inside but its highly overpriced here in Europe. It cost here 800?. Roughly 1000 US$.
  • Reply 125 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    On top of that, I have to think Apple knows its consumer base better than we do. Theoretically, if 80% of the Mac Mini buying were going for the more expensive model? Would that not make it a good reason for engineer it to appeal mire directly with the largest portion of the Mac Mini consumer base?



    Apple mostly knows what a highly skewed 5% to 10% of the computer market wants. This group largely seems content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way. Apple Fanboi perception of the world is often a little arrogant in that they forget that they are about 40% of 10%.



    The Mac Mini was originally intended as a sort of loss leader / intro Mac for the PC crowd in order to get them to try Apple. It is the market that turned the Mini into a home entertainment PC just as it was the market that began using it as a server. These uses were not originally on Apple's drawing board or they would have designed / redesigned before now.



    Apple's greater market awareness and success has been fueled by the iPhone, iPod and now iPad, product types it essentially invented. Their computer customer is often a much different animal. Yes Macs have gained market share but I have to believe a lot of it has been driven by iPhone, iPod and iPad. Given the overwhelming success and long coattails of these completely revolutionary products, Mac market share growth is actually a little dissapointing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I also don't think they expect people to bury the device in their entertainment system so the back can't be accessed. It doesn't have an decent media center software to make it a good replacement for the AppleTV or one of the other, much cheaper and more robust options on the market. Those who want to buy any Mac Mini for a media center aren't your typical consumer and therefore not Apple's focus for this machine.



    Completely disagree. I am using 2 Mac Minis as home entertainment PCs and have for some time. Started with a hacked AppleTV (ATVFlash). It was decent out of the box, post hack as a media device it was just ok. Have run Boxee and XBMC on the Minis and now am very happy with PLEX. My experience and skill set may be a bit atypical but my use of the Mac Minis is not. Where it comes to home entertainment I'm totally set it and forget it.
  • Reply 126 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    Major logic fail here Bsrr. Wrong on all counts. You erroneously assume that Apple wants to dominate the market - which they have stated several times, from the mouth of Jobsey himself they do not - not on any platform, period.



    See my quote from Jobs' mouth below...



    solipsism stated Apple knows its consumer base better than we do. I disagree. Nothing to do with logic. If someone at Apple could magic up a way to increase Apple PC sales three-fold Jobs would be all over the idea in seconds. Truth is, he only sees what he wants to see. Which is fine, but limiting.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    They don't want to simply "sell more computers" - that's a Dellism - and you are welcome to it.



    It was Steve Job's who Dellesquely said "We're coming after you, you're in our sights."(Dell), not I. I pointed out that Apple have failed to sell as many PC's as Dell as they don't understand the PC consumer market as well as, say, Dell.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    While your "common-man" approach is gruffly endearing (however briefly), you ignore the very real truth that owning a computer is more than just a hardware purchase...



    My comment makes no such qualitative statement of intent to purchase. The reasons are manyfold. However, at the end of the day one is just a consumer and manufacturers want you to purchase their product in preference to a competitors. To them you will always be nothing more than a consumer.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    - as million of Windows users will wearily inform you. The value of the Mac against your money plays quite nicely, as they tend to last longer, retain their value for resale better, require less operating overhead, and in fact are more enjoyable to use than their competitors, and create more customer loyalty. The numbers of my friends and acquaintances who are Mac owners grows daily and they uniformly report not only enjoying (of all things) their Macs, but their intention of "never going back" to their PC way of life. That figures prominently into the equation as well.



    Yawn...I've been an Apple consumer since 1978. If they archived details, my name will be found amongst the very first Apple (then) Mac owners. I almost bought a Lisa, but sense got the better of me. As it will with Iteration One of the iPad. I still refuse to buy a smartphone as all the telecoms companies are making arses of all their customers.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    Anecdotally, ...blah... in spite of the time and effort it took to raise the money she was spending on the device.



    As I implied, Jobs can't stand the smell of lower paid plebs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    So you are wrong, as wrong as Mr. Wrong failing about in a big pile of wrong can be.





    ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz
  • Reply 127 of 239
    danielswdanielsw Posts: 906member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    I hate the look of the new mac mini \

    please don't tell me im the only one...



    You're the only one.
  • Reply 128 of 239
    joe hsjoe hs Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post


    You're the only one.



    It looks too wide with the SuperDrive on the front \
  • Reply 129 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blogorant View Post


    The Mac Mini was originally intended as a sort of loss leader / intro Mac for the PC crowd in order to get them to try Apple.



    Hmm, I don't see any evidence that Apple took a loss on each Mac mini simply to get people on Mac OS X. Perhaps you actually mean they sold the Mac mini at a lower profit margin then their average Mac sale to encourage switchers. If what you claim is true, that reinforces their decision to raise the price after 5 years since it's introduction and well after Switchers have come to the platform. they already make 1/3 of the PC market's profits and have apparently stopped doing Mac v. PC ads geared toward encouraging switchers. It shouldn't be so hard to assume (especially with your loss-leader comment) that Apple changed the focus of this machine after a 1/2 decade on the market.



    Quote:

    Completely disagree. I am using 2 Mac Minis as home entertainment PCs and have for some time. Started with a hacked AppleTV (ATVFlash). It was decent out of the box, post hack as a media device it was just ok. Have run Boxee and XBMC on the Minis and now am very happy with PLEX. My experience and skill set may be a bit atypical but my use of the Mac Minis is not. Where it comes to home entertainment I'm totally set it and forget it.



    Everything you've stated backs up my statement that the Mac mini has no "decent media center software" and "those who want to buy any Mac Mini for a media center aren't your typical consumer and therefore not Apple's focus for this machine." My comment made no statement that is was not possible. Clearly it is. You can turn any PC box into a media center, but these are not desirable by the average person. For this reason, Apple will continue to make an AppleTV and the Mac mini is not that device at 3x the cost and with less out of the box functionality.
  • Reply 130 of 239
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    It looks too wide with the SuperDrive on the front \



    They should put the SuperDrive on the back? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that, too.
  • Reply 131 of 239
    joe hsjoe hs Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They should put the SuperDrive on the back? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that, too.



    lol, I wasn't suggesting they put it on the back, I'm just saying I think it looks very wide with nothing but a SuperDrive on the front, and larger gaps at the side of it.
  • Reply 132 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    It looks too wide with the SuperDrive on the front \



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They should put the SuperDrive on the back? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that, too.



    Now, if they'd put the slot on the top then Jobs could have said 'It's magical' whilst demonstrating his justification for the inflated price.
  • Reply 133 of 239
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post


    Is the server software somehow tied to the mini hardware? Or could I buy the new mini, put OS X server on my old mini (which currently runs OS X Server 10.5) and use the new mini as a more powerful desktop?



    I doubt if it's tied to the hardware, but you could ask at your Apple Store.



    The server software IS licensed to the hardware you buy it with, though, so you'd be violating your license.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    The only hardware you can't get on less expensive Dell or HP computers is the optical audio ins and outs. Since I'm not doing music recording those features go unused on my Mac Book. If you are curious about configuring an HP or Dell you can visit their sites and configure your own towers. It takes a while to do and I'm not doing it again just to post it here. Just visit their sites and look at the available hardware.



    And I can get a Kia equipped with just as many wheels and seats as a BMW, so the Kia must be every bit as good, right?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blogorant View Post


    Apple mostly knows what a highly skewed 5% to 10% of the computer market wants. This group largely seems content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way. Apple Fanboi perception of the world is often a little arrogant in that they forget that they are about 40% of 10%.



    The Mac Mini was originally intended as a sort of loss leader / intro Mac for the PC crowd in order to get them to try Apple. It is the market that turned the Mini into a home entertainment PC just as it was the market that began using it as a server. These uses were not originally on Apple's drawing board or they would have designed / redesigned before now.



    The Mini was never meant as a loss leader, so you're imagining things. It WAS an entry level computer to get people using Macs without spending too much money. Oh, wait. It still is.



    The fact that YOU can't afford $699 doesn't mean that no one can.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    Probably not, but I working with standard desktop components, which is the tradeoff Apple gets when going go for thin and efficient as possible. On the other hand, my PC is quite a bit larger.



    An Embraer is just as good as a Boeing 777 - it's just quite a bit smaller.



    The fact that you're ignoring size is pretty good proof that your comparison is flawed. This is designed as a tiny 'living room' computer. You can't compare it to full sized machines.



    You CAN compare those full sized machines to a Mac Pro if you wish. The comparison would show that Apple apparently doesn't have any desire to make entry-priced full sized machines. But stop making stupid comparisons.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post


    Even with the slow, tiny hard drive and the anemic CPU? I can see it maybe as a home server, so long as there's some NAS available. But in a setting where performance is a factor?



    Tiny hard drive? The Mini has a 320 GB standard drive with option of 500 GB. How many 2.5" drives are larger than that? And how much do they cost?



    Anemic CPU? Please explain which CPU has more power but fits into the power envelope available.



    NAS? Not necessary. If you're using this as a home server, it's probably over WiFi - and even the stock hard drive is fast enough to keep up with the network.
  • Reply 134 of 239
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    This will replace the AppleTV in my bedroom... can't wait.
  • Reply 135 of 239
    steviestevie Posts: 956member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Tiny hard drive? The Mini has a 320 GB standard drive with option of 500 GB. How many 2.5" drives are larger than that? And how much do they cost?



    Anemic CPU? Please explain which CPU has more power but fits into the power envelope available.








    The OP was proposing the use of the Mini for commercial colo servers. My questions were within that context, in comparison to other choices for colo servers.



    Please try to keep up.
  • Reply 136 of 239
    gescomgescom Posts: 69member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post


    By jacking up the price, Apple has made the mini a lot less attractive. Are they getting greedy? Do they really need high margins on this thing? The mini is about cost effectiveness. Its supposed to be a low cost way to get you into the Apple camp... But at $700? Come on, I can get an iMac for just a little more. Even if they want to pitch this as a media center, its overpriced. For example,

    you can get a BD player with Netflix streaming for under $200. The Boxee Box is probably going to be around $200. A PS3 box which plays BlueRay disks and does Netflix is under $500.

    So, what are they thinking?



    Hmmm, remember the Cube?







    I think they just don't give a fcuk about the price anymore. With their cash flow & profits these days - if you wanna go mac just pay for it.
  • Reply 137 of 239
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stevie View Post


    The OP was proposing the use of the Mini for commercial colo servers. My questions were within that context, in comparison to other choices for colo servers.



    I see. So you have some magical power to be able to determine what computer hardware someone needs for their application without having any idea whatsoever what their requirement is?



    Amazing.
  • Reply 138 of 239
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Interesting how that seems to be the only thing you have to say about it, in any thread.



    Possibly because it's an incredibly obvious, gaping hole in the spec sheet of every Mac? Or are you happy with standard def video? Personally I'm used to 45mbit 1080p now, and there's no going back.



    What else is there to say about the mini anyway? Okay, I'll indulge, let's do a side by side with the Dell Zino HD.



    Dell Zino HD - 1.8ghz AMD X2, 8gb RAM, 1tb HD, Radeon HD 4330, Blu-Ray Drive -- £588



    Mac Mini - 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo, 8gb RAM, 500gb HD, GeForce 320M, DVD Drive - £1129.



    Interesting, no? What does all that extra money get you beyond a nice metal case, a faster CPU, a smaller hard drive, and a missing BD drive? (and also no equivalent for Windows Media Centre) I'm not really seeing much reason to choose the Mini over the Zino...
  • Reply 139 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Hmm, I don't see any evidence that Apple took a loss on each Mac mini simply to get people on Mac OS X. Perhaps you actually mean they sold the Mac mini at a lower profit margin then their average Mac sale to encourage switchers.



    Glad you were able to clear that one up on your own. Your original point was that Apple knows it's customer base. Mine was that it doesn't know it's base as well as some may think. Yes, if an overwhelming portion of sales is model X then it makes sense to focus on model X.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If what you claim is true, that reinforces their decision to raise the price after 5 years since it's introduction and well after Switchers have come to the platform. they already make 1/3 of the PC market's profits and have apparently stopped doing Mac v. PC ads geared toward encouraging switchers. It shouldn't be so hard to assume (especially with your loss-leader comment) that Apple changed the focus of this machine after a 1/2 decade on the market.



    You're assuming that Apple has decided that it has grabbed all the "switchers" it can grab. If 10% of the market is Mac (notebook and desktop) then the remaining 90% of the market would have to be non-Mac or a potential switcher. Oh, and I never said anything with respect to pricing, old or new. Has Apple figured out that the Mac Mini has found a niche among home entertainment PC types? Has it determined that switchers are just as likely to go for a lower end Macbook or iMac? Probably yes to both.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Everything you've stated backs up my statement that the Mac mini has no "decent media center software" and "those who want to buy any Mac Mini for a media center aren't your typical consumer and therefore not Apple's focus for this machine." My comment made no statement that is was not possible. Clearly it is. You can turn any PC box into a media center, but these are not desirable by the average person. For this reason, Apple will continue to make an AppleTV and the Mac mini is not that device at 3x the cost and with less out of the box functionality.



    Really not sure where you were headed here. Did you mean to denigrate Boxee, XBMC or Plex? All three work fine (in that order) for the non-technical members of my family. Unboxing and connecting the Mac Mini took about 5 minutes. Installing Plex and a few other tools was another 15 minutes. Many well written articles on the intraweb on best practices. If someone has made the decision to acquire a media center computer (much less knows what one is) they're motivated and are doing some homework. And I think one of the pitfalls of the technically minded (us) is that we underestimate the ability and understanding of the "non-technical".



    I would argue that Mac Mini's are an even more attractive option than a Windows PC for folks that want their media center computer to "just work", although Windows 7 does seem to be a major step forward for MSFT. The Mini is physically attractive (or at least not unattractive) and has a very small form factor. My only gripe is that I bought my last one 60 days before the refresh.



    As for AppleTV, I think it has been a sales disappointment because left unhacked, it's little more than an iTunes device. Not that there isn't a lot of value there for $229, it just doesn't address everything someone would want or soon discovers they want in a media center device.
  • Reply 140 of 239
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    The Mini was never meant as a loss leader, so you're imagining things. It WAS an entry level computer to get people using Macs without spending too much money. Oh, wait. It still is.



    The fact that YOU can't afford $699 doesn't mean that no one can.



    Hi! Read whole posts much?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blogorant View Post


    I am using 2 Mac Minis as home entertainment PCs and have for some time.



Sign In or Register to comment.