I don't know a lot of BMW owners these days, but a few years back there weren't any BMW owners I knew who didn't have their air conditioners fail more than one time. Everything electronic was a bit screwy too. Anybody that buys a Range Rover will experience one of the least reliable vehicles on the road, and they cost over $85,000.00. High prices don't always equate to high quality. Maybe that's a lesson you haven't learned yet.
A friend of mine drove his family sedan, a Nissan Sentra, into the ground at over 250,000 miles. It worked very well until the end.
I found the parts on my $400 bicycle lasting much longer than my $1000 bicycle too. Go figure.
Not a strong argument in support of any point you are trying to make.
For example, if I put that Nissan Sentra on a track next to a BMW 335i, with drivers of equal ability, that Sentra doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating the 335i around.
Those parts on the $1000 bicycle are also much lighter than the parts on the $400 bicycle. Again, if I put riders of equal ability on them at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez, the rider on the $1000 bicycle will make it to the top first because he'll require a lower power output to get up.
So, depending on the task at hand, and one's perspective, the perceived "quality" of an object can vary greatly. In other words, if you just want your stuff to last forever, sometimes "cheap" may translate to quality for you. If you want to perform better at specific tasks, "cheap" may not help you out very much.
I doubt if Apple wants to take marketing advice from someone who can't even write simple English sentences.
Not valid or a nice thing to say...
You can get a hamburger at my local 4 star steak house and at McDonald's. How does the steak house get away with charging so much more?
The steak house burger is better.
QUALITY COSTS. Get it?
Mini uses same general PC parts. Doesn't mean quality. "Get it?"[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you. The MAC Mini uses generic parts that are redaily available in the market. If you even consider the fact that the low end specs of the parts, it is using parts from the spectrum where they are considered to be at their lowest costing. The MAC Mini does not ship with any cutting edge technology.
The design is good but I strongly beg to differ that if it is an Apple, it means "good quality". Look at the Imacs, firmware upgrades and then finally admitting there is somethign wrong with the nvidia chipset. Look, Apple does not build anything at all. It is made by the cheapest labour in China designed by Apple, made with parts from third party. Take away the OS and none of the mac mini except the casing belongs to Apple. Opps, also the power supply.
First and foremost, we have to wait one year for a re-fresh of the mac mini to its current specs which again falls way behind current hardware specs of other makes and models. This is the life story of the mini. Specifications are always lower than what is available. However, each refresh have been met with some price reduction.
However, this time round, the base price has been increased. I do not think the specs revision justify the old pricing let alone an increase in the pricing. Apple wants to turn the mac mini into a "Boutique" computer.
We will always tend to compare the mini to the HPs , Dells and other manufacturers. This is because we only need one desktop at home. We can only use one computer at a time. A computer is a very personal thing. We use it on a daily basis. We will rarely share computers with another person. That is why when we want to buy a computer, the mac mini will fall into the category of a desktop.
I have personally bought three imacs and two mac minis over the years. I was willing to trade specifications for design. I wanted a small footprint and I wanted to do only basic stuff so I thought, What the heck buy a mini and space the floor space. I never regretted my decision.
However, this arguement also stops me from upgrading. I no longer require any more processing power for simple tasks. I have another PC at home with win 7 doing video editing and other what nots. The mini is not powerful enough to do all my stuff. i.e. play games, photoshop. I will need an imac or a HP, Dell equivalent. Thus, if the mini is meant to be a powerful machine with a very small footprint, it has failed. If it is meant to do simple tasks with a very sleek design, I think the cost is too high.
If Apple is trying to gauge the "upper limits" of the pricing for mac mini I think they have hit the jackpot.
The problem with the mini is that both the pricing and specifications are too similar to the imac. Either they keep the specifications very low with affordable pricing to differentiate with the imac or make it very powerful similar to the imac at a higher costing to justify the design factor. Now the mac mini falls through the crack and sits neither here nor there in terms of specifications or costing.
I hope Apple could define their product line much clearer.
Hmm, you don't read much of these messages do you?
I said you could just get the standard Mini and put Linux on it, then you would have a server with unlimited client support for less than a Mini Server. So back to your comment, does that mean you think the standard Mini is "cheap stuff"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
But for the overwhelming majority of users, Windows is the nearest equivalent to Mac OS X in terms of usability. More importantly, Macs and Windows computers together make up 98-99% of the computer market. So the fact that there might be some niche machine that's cheaper doesn't negate the fact that the Mac Mini server is a bargain - compared to the 98-99% of the market.
The overwhelming majority of users don't have a home server, and don't have an intention of getting a home server of any kind, and the people that do want one will have no issue at all installing Ubuntu on a Mac Mini, so that would mean the standard Mac Mini is an even cheaper bargin when it comes to a home server.
The Mac Mini server is only a bargin if you place some kind of value on OS X Server, and since Ubuntu server can do just as much, and costs around $0 what benefit do you get of getting the Mini Server?
I use a PPC Mini as a Ubuntu based server at the moment, the only reason is it was a spare box, if I was to go purchase a new one, I'm afraid the Mac Mini server would be down the list quite a bit...
I said you could just get the standard Mini and put Linux on it, then you would have a server with unlimited client support for less than a Mini Server. .....
The Mac Mini server is only a bargin if you place some kind of value on OS X Server, and since Ubuntu server can do just as much, and costs around $0 what benefit do you get of getting the Mini Server?
.
There are users who need a Mac Mini precisely because it runs OSX server.
Try running a medical, dental or law office with Ubuntu.
But there are nice client/server applications for these markets. The MM server often is perfect for these applications. I know because that's what I use.
There are users who need a Mac Mini precisely because it runs OSX server.
Try running a medical, dental or law office with Ubuntu.
Not sure of your point here, it would be very easy to run a medical, dental, or law office with Ubuntu, what exactly is "magically" about OS X Server that makes it better than the other options?
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
But there are nice client/server applications for these markets. The MM server often is perfect for these applications. I know because that's what I use.
Again, not sure of your point, all you are saying is you are limited by your own knowledge. Sure if you are running a full Mac house, maybe it could be ok, but by the time you add the external RAID units (you going to trust your data to a couple of laptop drives with limited physical access?) etc, the price has just shot up. Then what happens when Apple tells you your repair will take three weeks when the Mini breaks down, you will have to have a second one on hand just in case.
I love my Macs as much as the next person, but if you are going to run your business on a Mini, I hope you have some good DR plans.
Not sure of your point here, it would be very easy to run a medical, dental, or law office with Ubuntu, what exactly is "magically" about OS X Server that makes it better than the other options?
Again, not sure of your point, all you are saying is you are limited by your own knowledge. Sure if you are running a full Mac house, maybe it could be ok, but by the time you add the external RAID units (you going to trust your data to a couple of laptop drives with limited physical access?) etc, the price has just shot up. Then what happens when Apple tells you your repair will take three weeks when the Mini breaks down, you will have to have a second one on hand just in case.
I love my Macs as much as the next person, but if you are going to run your business on a Mini, I hope you have some good DR plans.
Maybe you can show me billing software and EMR software that runs on Ubuntu.
And no you don't need to have external RAID set up for a small business. Many small businesses cannot afford that.
My set-up has the MM server set up with the internal drives as RAID 1 and an external HDD that is cloned nightly. I also have an off site back up that runs nightly. For a small dental office this is sufficient.
I completely agree with you. The MAC Mini uses generic parts that are redaily available in the market. If you even consider the fact that the low end specs of the parts, it is using parts from the spectrum where they are considered to be at their lowest costing. The MAC Mini does not ship with any cutting edge technology.
Please tell me where I can buy the 'generic' motherboard in a Mac Mini. Or the 'generic' case. Or the 'generic' power supply.
As for the rest, you don't have any idea what Apple's purchase specs are for RAM or other components. In some cases, it has been well established that Apple's specs were considerably tighter than the cheap generic stuff you're so proud to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
You're so wrong in so many ways.
Dude, I buy computers to do computing. That is my objective when I buy them. I don't buy them because they look cute. I bought my Apple computer for functionality, not because it came in white. Black cost more. To me the color didn't matter one bit. If I wanted a box that is small and looks good I'd buy a cool clock radio with an MP3 player dock. There are many quite stylish models out there.
When tower computers (even the small HP Slimline) are too big to fit on a desk there is always the option to put them on the floor on a stand. That gives plenty of room for more crap on the top of the desk. If I were living or working in an extremely tiny place I wouldn't be buying a Mini. I'd get a laptop. The Mini is just a laptop without the screen, keyboard, track pad, microphone, or camera.
I don't know a lot of BMW owners these days, but a few years back there weren't any BMW owners I knew who didn't have their air conditioners fail more than one time. Everything electronic was a bit screwy too. Anybody that buys a Range Rover will experience one of the least reliable vehicles on the road, and they cost over $85,000.00. High prices don't always equate to high quality. Maybe that's a lesson you haven't learned yet.
A friend of mine drove his family sedan, a Nissan Sentra, into the ground at over 250,000 miles. It worked very well until the end.
I found the parts on my $400 bicycle lasting much longer than my $1000 bicycle too. Go figure.
You're free to buy the cheapest PC you can find. Fortunately, YOU ARE NOT THE ENTIRE MARKET. Get it?
Some people ARE willing to pay more for a tiny living room computer and they buy the Mini. Just because you don't wish to do so doesn't mean they can't.
As for the rest, you are right - price doesn't always mean quality. But sometimes it does. More importantly, the point is that there ARE differences between vehicles. An attempt to lump all 4 passtenger 2 wheel drive vehicles together is insane - just as is your attempt to argue that all computers are the same, other than price.
There are differences in computers, just as there are differences in cars. Personally, I think BMWs are overrated, but I've been very happy with the quality of the Lexus vehicles I've owned. OTOH, people who are aggressive drivers tend to like the BMW better. DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS. Some people ARE willing to pay more for Apple quality. Some people ARE willing to pay more for a tiny computer like the Mini. That doesn't mean that your "buy anything as long as it's cheap" mentality is wrong - if that's the way you choose to pick your purchases, feel free. But people who have other wants than you should also be free to choose what they wish without your incessant whining about their choice.
And no you don't need to have external RAID set up for a small business. Many small businesses cannot afford that.
My set-up has the MM server set up with the internal drives as RAID 1 and an external HDD that is cloned nightly. I also have an off site back up that runs nightly. For a small dental office this is sufficient.
So what happens with the Mini itself fails? What about the hard drives in the Mini? You willing to pull the thing to bits to replace the drive? Do you have a backout plan if you break something in process? Or is the dental office willing to part with the computer for an unknown time frame while Apple performs the repair?
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
What happens when a HP fails? You get a new one and restore from backups.
Quote:
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
Yeah, like not depending on "free" software...often it costs more than the proprietary stuff.
No, you're an AI troll because you describe Apple customers as "content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way" and those that disagree with this statement as "Apple Fanboi"s...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blogorant
Apple mostly knows what a highly skewed 5% to 10% of the computer market wants. This group largely seems content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way. Apple Fanboi perception of the world is often a little arrogant in that they forget that they are about 40% of 10%.
Please read aloud... Must read and digest entire post before hitting reply button else I look really foolish. Repeat.
What happens when a HP fails? You get a new one and restore from backups.
Ring up and get the technician to come to you, business support is an area where Apple really lacks. I have two computers on this desk, the Dell has onsite next day service, the iMac that cost me over four times the price requires me to take it somewhere, and wait an unknown length of time for someone to look at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Yeah, like not depending on "free" software...often it costs more than the proprietary stuff.
This is nothing to do with free, or paid software, this is about how much you value your business, and if you are happy running your business on a home computer, running whatever OS, then fine, but make sure you are aware of the risks, and the costs involved when something does go wrong.
It's $100 more than the old base model, and $100 less than the old high end model.
For that you get:
HDMI
SD slot
Smaller form factor
Unibody case - stronger and better heat transfer
Twice the RAM capacity
Dramatically higher GPU power
Ease of upgrading the RAM yourself. That alone could save you much of the "excess" $100
No more external power supply
Significantly reduced energy consumption - for those concerned about our waste of resources.
if you're more a high end person, upgrade the CPU. Now it's $50 more than the old high end, but has all of the above advantages PLUS a faster CPU
Now, you may not personally think those things are worth $100, but to label it ridiculous is not reasonable.
People who have a monitor and keyboard?
People who don't have room for the iMac?
People who want to connect it to their home TV and don't want the iMac cluttering up the living room?
It's not for everyone, but then, nothing is.
Oh, great. Complain about how expensive it is - and then ask for blu-ray, too. Do they even make blu-ray drives small enough for this case?
And a dramatic improvement in features and performance, as well. If you don't like the deal, don't buy one. If enough people don't buy one, Apple will lower the price. If people continue to buy them like crazy, then Apple called it right.
Server version is a 'reasonable value'? Check out Windows Server. Unlimited client licenses are $2200 - and you still have to buy the server software and hardware. The server is an incredible deal - particularly since you're getting a product with such stupendous quality and support.
great smart concise breAKdown of the oddly crippled over muscles super duper ATV WE All HAVE CALLED FOR YRS
the ....mini
apple has oddly given superman like powers with upgrades to server level 50 machine control for pennies on the pound yet crippled other parts like no audio avi shit amoung others
mimi
mini seemed to have been a victim of football between the movie studios aka content dudes and apple saying they want it all.
the mini was the knife we held at walmarts amazonsans all the thieving overcharging content providers..keep appl 5 yrs old cripple in the media room lest we give you no movie's or tvs shows for you pocket rockets
the mini was never for us
the mini fought and died 2WARS at the same time
So MBP IPOD TOUCH IPAD IMAC MBA MB IPHONES 2-4
160G IPODS COULD LIVE AND GROW IN A FREE PLACE V
yes the ipad is a tiny bit crippled
for me with pages and numbers an ipad could workalmost as well as my 15'mbp
in 3 yrs the mini will die off or kill the imac
i dunno but these two machines are both so great
maybe apple could bundle these 2 bad boys for us
1tb mac mini w/2 sd ports 2 fw 1600 ports w/ 2 top gpu chips and a single top Intel chip un clocked
added to a fully powered 32 in IMAC WITH 2TB STORAGE
AND A 32 IN OLED SCREEN
BLURAY IS A MUST on both or a wireless slim portable that aall aaple fans could buy
the whole house can then get a possible 4tb of content every where
all those new iphones ipod touches ipads will wake up each morn and fill to the brimm with great stuff
I don't know anyone who uses the software you've linked too. But I give you credit for at least finding links to stuff that I didn't know even existed. BTW I work with an EMR vendor to help customize their EMR for Oral surgery and have used 4 different billing software applications on both the Windows and Mac platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
So what happens with the Mini itself fails? What about the hard drives in the Mini? You willing to pull the thing to bits to replace the drive? Do you have a backout plan if you break something in process? Or is the dental office willing to part with the computer for an unknown time frame while Apple performs the repair?
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
Guess what, you can boot from the external HDD clone of the MM on a work station. Is that a great solution? No. Will it work? I hope so. Have I had to do so? No.
I get a kick out of people who slag on the mini server over the lack of RAID 5 back up. I know of exactly one practice that has a RAID 5 set up. Almost everyone else has a *tape* back up DR system. That's what I had in my last system. It was quite revealing when we sent the tape back ups in and found that many were not even useable back ups of the data. My current set up is much more redundant than any set up I've ever had.
Please read aloud... Must read and digest entire post before hitting reply button else I look really foolish. Repeat.
Perhaps you should practice your writing comprehension instead. Is there some way you do not understand that you called Apple consumers sheeple in that paragraph and why this might be considered trollish activity on an apple fan site?
Ring up and get the technician to come to you, business support is an area where Apple really lacks. I have two computers on this desk, the Dell has onsite next day service, the iMac that cost me over four times the price requires me to take it somewhere, and wait an unknown length of time for someone to look at it.
Apple does have premium service for xserve but alas not for desktops. Next business day is nice but it's still the next business day. If it's business critical you buy 2, NBD service contract or not. 4 hour promise or not.
Dell has a $399 server...but it comes with no OS. Okay if you want to use Ubuntu LTS but the Windows 2K8 Small Business Server edition is $849. Windows 2K8 Foundation Edition is $259 which is probably good enough for a small dental office (limited to 15 cals). For RHEL the cheapest server is $349.
We're pretty close to price parity between Windows and RHEL on the cheapest Dell Poweredge and the Mini Server. Wanna bet the TCO on the mini is lower?
Quote:
This is nothing to do with free, or paid software, this is about how much you value your business, and if you are happy running your business on a home computer, running whatever OS, then fine, but make sure you are aware of the risks, and the costs involved when something does go wrong.
$1,019 for a new Mini and next day shipping?
Me, I'd rather buy an extra mini or simply run with the risk of a hardware failure than buy Ubuntu Support from Canonical. The RH guys are simply better at that than Canonical (and yeah, I have the T-shirt) and OSX a much more user friendly server OS for a small shop without a unix weenie.
Guess what, you can boot from the external HDD clone of the MM on a work station. Is that a great solution? No. Will it work? I hope so. Have I had to do so? No.
For a hardware backup strategy I'd give the receptionist a normal mini rather than an iMac. You can possibly just restore a super duper copy right on top of his/her mini assuming it has a 500GB drive and you had the server in RAID 1 configuration (also 500GB usable).
Me, I'd do a super duper/carbon copy backup to a couple rotating USB drives and stick one in an offsite location (doctor's home). I'd probably make the doctor's home machine a Mac mini too.
DR from a fire or theft that steals everything including your raid array is more catastrophic than simple hardware breakage and something that onsite backup or NBD repair doesn't address.
The only gotcha is that SLS keeps stuff in DBs that CCC/SD can't back up normally because the services are running. CCC and SD has scripts that help with that though by shutting down services before backing up.
For a hardware backup strategy I'd give the receptionist a normal mini rather than an iMac. You can possibly just restore a super duper copy right on top of his/her mini assuming it has a 500GB drive and you had the server in RAID 1 configuration (also 500GB usable).
Me, I'd do a super duper/carbon copy backup to a couple rotating USB drives and stick one in an offsite location (doctor's home). I'd probably make the doctor's home machine a Mac mini too.
DR from a fire or theft that steals everything including your raid array is more catastrophic than simple hardware breakage and something that onsite backup or NBD repair doesn't address.
The only gotcha is that SLS keeps stuff in DBs that CCC/SD can't back up normally because the services are running. CCC and SD has scripts that help with that though by shutting down services before backing up.
My set up has iMac workstations and a MM server. Hadn't thought about using a mini as a workstation that could function as a server in a pinch.
Minis are so cheap that I could buy a refurbed on an keep it as a spare off site.
I agree that a fire or other local physical damage to my facility is more of a worry than a drive failure. A fire would also take out a RAID set up. Then again that's what my off site BUs are for.
Everyone mentions lInux as the better server solution when discussing the MM server. Outside of using a Linux server for Web hosting and mail, I've not seen an instance where Linux server makes sense, at least for a medical or dental practice.
For a medical or dental practice, the self serve linux applications are a non-starter. Who will install and configure them? Who is going to train the staff? There are many Windows solutions and some are quite good. There are a few Mac applications and I think they are quite good. But I've never seen a Linux application actually used. They seem to me to be proof of concept project and not an actual product for real businesses.
The target customers will value the nice metal case more highly than better specs. They won't even understand the differences in the specs. And they won't be comparing the box against a PC, but instead, against other Macs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie
That is irrelevant. Macs never ever win on bang for buck.
If you are looking for raw power at a good price, you need not even consider a Mac. Macs stress other attributes, not raw performance.
I see that even you are having trouble keeping straight which troll persona you are today, something of a cross between tekstud and iLuv above, and the occasional post from your WilliamG alias.
Perhaps you should practice your writing comprehension instead. Is there some way you do not understand that you called Apple consumers sheeple in that paragraph and why this might be considered trollish activity on an apple fan site?
Nah, that's inconceivable.
Not to mention that he made a flat statement that Apple doesn't know very much about its customers, implying that he knows Apple's customers better than Apple does. That is so insane that it's hard to believe that even one of the resident trolls could believe such foolishness.
Not to mention that he made a flat statement that Apple doesn't know very much about its customers, implying that he knows Apple's customers better than Apple does. That is so insane that it's hard to believe that even one of the resident trolls could believe such foolishness.
His statement implies that only if one assumes that all comparisons are to oneself.
My guess is that he was comparing Apple's actual knowledge to what they could/should know, rather than comparing Apple's knowledge with his own.
Comments
I don't know a lot of BMW owners these days, but a few years back there weren't any BMW owners I knew who didn't have their air conditioners fail more than one time. Everything electronic was a bit screwy too. Anybody that buys a Range Rover will experience one of the least reliable vehicles on the road, and they cost over $85,000.00. High prices don't always equate to high quality. Maybe that's a lesson you haven't learned yet.
A friend of mine drove his family sedan, a Nissan Sentra, into the ground at over 250,000 miles. It worked very well until the end.
I found the parts on my $400 bicycle lasting much longer than my $1000 bicycle too. Go figure.
Not a strong argument in support of any point you are trying to make.
For example, if I put that Nissan Sentra on a track next to a BMW 335i, with drivers of equal ability, that Sentra doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating the 335i around.
Those parts on the $1000 bicycle are also much lighter than the parts on the $400 bicycle. Again, if I put riders of equal ability on them at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez, the rider on the $1000 bicycle will make it to the top first because he'll require a lower power output to get up.
So, depending on the task at hand, and one's perspective, the perceived "quality" of an object can vary greatly. In other words, if you just want your stuff to last forever, sometimes "cheap" may translate to quality for you. If you want to perform better at specific tasks, "cheap" may not help you out very much.
There, I went and figured.
I doubt if Apple wants to take marketing advice from someone who can't even write simple English sentences.
Not valid or a nice thing to say...
You can get a hamburger at my local 4 star steak house and at McDonald's. How does the steak house get away with charging so much more?
The steak house burger is better.
QUALITY COSTS. Get it?
Mini uses same general PC parts. Doesn't mean quality. "Get it?"[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you. The MAC Mini uses generic parts that are redaily available in the market. If you even consider the fact that the low end specs of the parts, it is using parts from the spectrum where they are considered to be at their lowest costing. The MAC Mini does not ship with any cutting edge technology.
The design is good but I strongly beg to differ that if it is an Apple, it means "good quality". Look at the Imacs, firmware upgrades and then finally admitting there is somethign wrong with the nvidia chipset. Look, Apple does not build anything at all. It is made by the cheapest labour in China designed by Apple, made with parts from third party. Take away the OS and none of the mac mini except the casing belongs to Apple. Opps, also the power supply.
First and foremost, we have to wait one year for a re-fresh of the mac mini to its current specs which again falls way behind current hardware specs of other makes and models. This is the life story of the mini. Specifications are always lower than what is available. However, each refresh have been met with some price reduction.
However, this time round, the base price has been increased. I do not think the specs revision justify the old pricing let alone an increase in the pricing. Apple wants to turn the mac mini into a "Boutique" computer.
We will always tend to compare the mini to the HPs , Dells and other manufacturers. This is because we only need one desktop at home. We can only use one computer at a time. A computer is a very personal thing. We use it on a daily basis. We will rarely share computers with another person. That is why when we want to buy a computer, the mac mini will fall into the category of a desktop.
I have personally bought three imacs and two mac minis over the years. I was willing to trade specifications for design. I wanted a small footprint and I wanted to do only basic stuff so I thought, What the heck buy a mini and space the floor space. I never regretted my decision.
However, this arguement also stops me from upgrading. I no longer require any more processing power for simple tasks. I have another PC at home with win 7 doing video editing and other what nots. The mini is not powerful enough to do all my stuff. i.e. play games, photoshop. I will need an imac or a HP, Dell equivalent. Thus, if the mini is meant to be a powerful machine with a very small footprint, it has failed. If it is meant to do simple tasks with a very sleek design, I think the cost is too high.
If Apple is trying to gauge the "upper limits" of the pricing for mac mini I think they have hit the jackpot.
The problem with the mini is that both the pricing and specifications are too similar to the imac. Either they keep the specifications very low with affordable pricing to differentiate with the imac or make it very powerful similar to the imac at a higher costing to justify the design factor. Now the mac mini falls through the crack and sits neither here nor there in terms of specifications or costing.
I hope Apple could define their product line much clearer.
Yes, you can get cheap stuff if you wish.
Hmm, you don't read much of these messages do you?
I said you could just get the standard Mini and put Linux on it, then you would have a server with unlimited client support for less than a Mini Server. So back to your comment, does that mean you think the standard Mini is "cheap stuff"?
But for the overwhelming majority of users, Windows is the nearest equivalent to Mac OS X in terms of usability. More importantly, Macs and Windows computers together make up 98-99% of the computer market. So the fact that there might be some niche machine that's cheaper doesn't negate the fact that the Mac Mini server is a bargain - compared to the 98-99% of the market.
The overwhelming majority of users don't have a home server, and don't have an intention of getting a home server of any kind, and the people that do want one will have no issue at all installing Ubuntu on a Mac Mini, so that would mean the standard Mac Mini is an even cheaper bargin when it comes to a home server.
The Mac Mini server is only a bargin if you place some kind of value on OS X Server, and since Ubuntu server can do just as much, and costs around $0 what benefit do you get of getting the Mini Server?
I use a PPC Mini as a Ubuntu based server at the moment, the only reason is it was a spare box, if I was to go purchase a new one, I'm afraid the Mac Mini server would be down the list quite a bit...
I said you could just get the standard Mini and put Linux on it, then you would have a server with unlimited client support for less than a Mini Server. .....
The Mac Mini server is only a bargin if you place some kind of value on OS X Server, and since Ubuntu server can do just as much, and costs around $0 what benefit do you get of getting the Mini Server?
.
There are users who need a Mac Mini precisely because it runs OSX server.
Try running a medical, dental or law office with Ubuntu.
But there are nice client/server applications for these markets. The MM server often is perfect for these applications. I know because that's what I use.
There are users who need a Mac Mini precisely because it runs OSX server.
Try running a medical, dental or law office with Ubuntu.
Not sure of your point here, it would be very easy to run a medical, dental, or law office with Ubuntu, what exactly is "magically" about OS X Server that makes it better than the other options?
But there are nice client/server applications for these markets. The MM server often is perfect for these applications. I know because that's what I use.
Again, not sure of your point, all you are saying is you are limited by your own knowledge. Sure if you are running a full Mac house, maybe it could be ok, but by the time you add the external RAID units (you going to trust your data to a couple of laptop drives with limited physical access?) etc, the price has just shot up. Then what happens when Apple tells you your repair will take three weeks when the Mini breaks down, you will have to have a second one on hand just in case.
I love my Macs as much as the next person, but if you are going to run your business on a Mini, I hope you have some good DR plans.
Not sure of your point here, it would be very easy to run a medical, dental, or law office with Ubuntu, what exactly is "magically" about OS X Server that makes it better than the other options?
Again, not sure of your point, all you are saying is you are limited by your own knowledge. Sure if you are running a full Mac house, maybe it could be ok, but by the time you add the external RAID units (you going to trust your data to a couple of laptop drives with limited physical access?) etc, the price has just shot up. Then what happens when Apple tells you your repair will take three weeks when the Mini breaks down, you will have to have a second one on hand just in case.
I love my Macs as much as the next person, but if you are going to run your business on a Mini, I hope you have some good DR plans.
Maybe you can show me billing software and EMR software that runs on Ubuntu.
And no you don't need to have external RAID set up for a small business. Many small businesses cannot afford that.
My set-up has the MM server set up with the internal drives as RAID 1 and an external HDD that is cloned nightly. I also have an off site back up that runs nightly. For a small dental office this is sufficient.
I completely agree with you. The MAC Mini uses generic parts that are redaily available in the market. If you even consider the fact that the low end specs of the parts, it is using parts from the spectrum where they are considered to be at their lowest costing. The MAC Mini does not ship with any cutting edge technology.
Please tell me where I can buy the 'generic' motherboard in a Mac Mini. Or the 'generic' case. Or the 'generic' power supply.
As for the rest, you don't have any idea what Apple's purchase specs are for RAM or other components. In some cases, it has been well established that Apple's specs were considerably tighter than the cheap generic stuff you're so proud to use.
You're so wrong in so many ways.
Dude, I buy computers to do computing. That is my objective when I buy them. I don't buy them because they look cute. I bought my Apple computer for functionality, not because it came in white. Black cost more. To me the color didn't matter one bit. If I wanted a box that is small and looks good I'd buy a cool clock radio with an MP3 player dock. There are many quite stylish models out there.
When tower computers (even the small HP Slimline) are too big to fit on a desk there is always the option to put them on the floor on a stand. That gives plenty of room for more crap on the top of the desk. If I were living or working in an extremely tiny place I wouldn't be buying a Mini. I'd get a laptop. The Mini is just a laptop without the screen, keyboard, track pad, microphone, or camera.
I don't know a lot of BMW owners these days, but a few years back there weren't any BMW owners I knew who didn't have their air conditioners fail more than one time. Everything electronic was a bit screwy too. Anybody that buys a Range Rover will experience one of the least reliable vehicles on the road, and they cost over $85,000.00. High prices don't always equate to high quality. Maybe that's a lesson you haven't learned yet.
A friend of mine drove his family sedan, a Nissan Sentra, into the ground at over 250,000 miles. It worked very well until the end.
I found the parts on my $400 bicycle lasting much longer than my $1000 bicycle too. Go figure.
You're free to buy the cheapest PC you can find. Fortunately, YOU ARE NOT THE ENTIRE MARKET. Get it?
Some people ARE willing to pay more for a tiny living room computer and they buy the Mini. Just because you don't wish to do so doesn't mean they can't.
As for the rest, you are right - price doesn't always mean quality. But sometimes it does. More importantly, the point is that there ARE differences between vehicles. An attempt to lump all 4 passtenger 2 wheel drive vehicles together is insane - just as is your attempt to argue that all computers are the same, other than price.
There are differences in computers, just as there are differences in cars. Personally, I think BMWs are overrated, but I've been very happy with the quality of the Lexus vehicles I've owned. OTOH, people who are aggressive drivers tend to like the BMW better. DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS. Some people ARE willing to pay more for Apple quality. Some people ARE willing to pay more for a tiny computer like the Mini. That doesn't mean that your "buy anything as long as it's cheap" mentality is wrong - if that's the way you choose to pick your purchases, feel free. But people who have other wants than you should also be free to choose what they wish without your incessant whining about their choice.
Maybe you can show me billing software and EMR software that runs on Ubuntu.
Not sure of the quality of them, but they are there...
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=676681
http://sourceforge.net/projects/oscaremrvmware/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu-Med
And billing software, there is a tonne of that.
And no you don't need to have external RAID set up for a small business. Many small businesses cannot afford that.
My set-up has the MM server set up with the internal drives as RAID 1 and an external HDD that is cloned nightly. I also have an off site back up that runs nightly. For a small dental office this is sufficient.
So what happens with the Mini itself fails? What about the hard drives in the Mini? You willing to pull the thing to bits to replace the drive? Do you have a backout plan if you break something in process? Or is the dental office willing to part with the computer for an unknown time frame while Apple performs the repair?
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
So what happens with the Mini itself fails?
What happens when a HP fails? You get a new one and restore from backups.
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
Yeah, like not depending on "free" software...often it costs more than the proprietary stuff.
No, you're an AI troll because you describe Apple customers as "content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way" and those that disagree with this statement as "Apple Fanboi"s...
Apple mostly knows what a highly skewed 5% to 10% of the computer market wants. This group largely seems content with whatever Cupertino sees fit to send their way. Apple Fanboi perception of the world is often a little arrogant in that they forget that they are about 40% of 10%.
Please read aloud... Must read and digest entire post before hitting reply button else I look really foolish. Repeat.
What happens when a HP fails? You get a new one and restore from backups.
Ring up and get the technician to come to you, business support is an area where Apple really lacks. I have two computers on this desk, the Dell has onsite next day service, the iMac that cost me over four times the price requires me to take it somewhere, and wait an unknown length of time for someone to look at it.
Yeah, like not depending on "free" software...often it costs more than the proprietary stuff.
This is nothing to do with free, or paid software, this is about how much you value your business, and if you are happy running your business on a home computer, running whatever OS, then fine, but make sure you are aware of the risks, and the costs involved when something does go wrong.
Ridiculous?
It's $100 more than the old base model, and $100 less than the old high end model.
For that you get:
HDMI
SD slot
Smaller form factor
Unibody case - stronger and better heat transfer
Twice the RAM capacity
Dramatically higher GPU power
Ease of upgrading the RAM yourself. That alone could save you much of the "excess" $100
No more external power supply
Significantly reduced energy consumption - for those concerned about our waste of resources.
if you're more a high end person, upgrade the CPU. Now it's $50 more than the old high end, but has all of the above advantages PLUS a faster CPU
Now, you may not personally think those things are worth $100, but to label it ridiculous is not reasonable.
People who have a monitor and keyboard?
People who don't have room for the iMac?
People who want to connect it to their home TV and don't want the iMac cluttering up the living room?
It's not for everyone, but then, nothing is.
Oh, great. Complain about how expensive it is - and then ask for blu-ray, too. Do they even make blu-ray drives small enough for this case?
And a dramatic improvement in features and performance, as well. If you don't like the deal, don't buy one. If enough people don't buy one, Apple will lower the price. If people continue to buy them like crazy, then Apple called it right.
Server version is a 'reasonable value'? Check out Windows Server. Unlimited client licenses are $2200 - and you still have to buy the server software and hardware. The server is an incredible deal - particularly since you're getting a product with such stupendous quality and support.
bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing
your post knocks the f>>> out of all jerks
great smart concise breAKdown of the oddly crippled over muscles super duper ATV WE All HAVE CALLED FOR YRS
the ....mini
apple has oddly given superman like powers with upgrades to server level 50 machine control for pennies on the pound yet crippled other parts like no audio avi shit amoung others
mimi
mini seemed to have been a victim of football between the movie studios aka content dudes and apple saying they want it all.
the mini was the knife we held at walmarts amazonsans all the thieving overcharging content providers..keep appl 5 yrs old cripple in the media room lest we give you no movie's or tvs shows for you pocket rockets
the mini was never for us
the mini fought and died 2WARS at the same time
So MBP IPOD TOUCH IPAD IMAC MBA MB IPHONES 2-4
160G IPODS COULD LIVE AND GROW IN A FREE PLACE V
yes the ipad is a tiny bit crippled
for me with pages and numbers an ipad could workalmost as well as my 15'mbp
in 3 yrs the mini will die off or kill the imac
i dunno but these two machines are both so great
maybe apple could bundle these 2 bad boys for us
1tb mac mini w/2 sd ports 2 fw 1600 ports w/ 2 top gpu chips and a single top Intel chip un clocked
added to a fully powered 32 in IMAC WITH 2TB STORAGE
AND A 32 IN OLED SCREEN
BLURAY IS A MUST on both or a wireless slim portable that aall aaple fans could buy
the whole house can then get a possible 4tb of content every where
all those new iphones ipod touches ipads will wake up each morn and fill to the brimm with great stuff
i will switch off now
the meds are //...
peace
9
Not sure of the quality of them, but they are there...
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=676681
http://sourceforge.net/projects/oscaremrvmware/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu-Med
And billing software, there is a tonne of that.
I don't know anyone who uses the software you've linked too. But I give you credit for at least finding links to stuff that I didn't know even existed. BTW I work with an EMR vendor to help customize their EMR for Oral surgery and have used 4 different billing software applications on both the Windows and Mac platforms.
So what happens with the Mini itself fails? What about the hard drives in the Mini? You willing to pull the thing to bits to replace the drive? Do you have a backout plan if you break something in process? Or is the dental office willing to part with the computer for an unknown time frame while Apple performs the repair?
Small businesses don't realise the cost of computer services until they have some kind of failure, then they realise they should have spent a little more money.
Guess what, you can boot from the external HDD clone of the MM on a work station. Is that a great solution? No. Will it work? I hope so. Have I had to do so? No.
I get a kick out of people who slag on the mini server over the lack of RAID 5 back up. I know of exactly one practice that has a RAID 5 set up. Almost everyone else has a *tape* back up DR system. That's what I had in my last system. It was quite revealing when we sent the tape back ups in and found that many were not even useable back ups of the data. My current set up is much more redundant than any set up I've ever had.
Please read aloud... Must read and digest entire post before hitting reply button else I look really foolish. Repeat.
Perhaps you should practice your writing comprehension instead. Is there some way you do not understand that you called Apple consumers sheeple in that paragraph and why this might be considered trollish activity on an apple fan site?
Nah, that's inconceivable.
Ring up and get the technician to come to you, business support is an area where Apple really lacks. I have two computers on this desk, the Dell has onsite next day service, the iMac that cost me over four times the price requires me to take it somewhere, and wait an unknown length of time for someone to look at it.
Apple does have premium service for xserve but alas not for desktops. Next business day is nice but it's still the next business day. If it's business critical you buy 2, NBD service contract or not. 4 hour promise or not.
Dell has a $399 server...but it comes with no OS. Okay if you want to use Ubuntu LTS but the Windows 2K8 Small Business Server edition is $849. Windows 2K8 Foundation Edition is $259 which is probably good enough for a small dental office (limited to 15 cals). For RHEL the cheapest server is $349.
We're pretty close to price parity between Windows and RHEL on the cheapest Dell Poweredge and the Mini Server. Wanna bet the TCO on the mini is lower?
This is nothing to do with free, or paid software, this is about how much you value your business, and if you are happy running your business on a home computer, running whatever OS, then fine, but make sure you are aware of the risks, and the costs involved when something does go wrong.
$1,019 for a new Mini and next day shipping?
Me, I'd rather buy an extra mini or simply run with the risk of a hardware failure than buy Ubuntu Support from Canonical. The RH guys are simply better at that than Canonical (and yeah, I have the T-shirt) and OSX a much more user friendly server OS for a small shop without a unix weenie.
Guess what, you can boot from the external HDD clone of the MM on a work station. Is that a great solution? No. Will it work? I hope so. Have I had to do so? No.
For a hardware backup strategy I'd give the receptionist a normal mini rather than an iMac. You can possibly just restore a super duper copy right on top of his/her mini assuming it has a 500GB drive and you had the server in RAID 1 configuration (also 500GB usable).
Me, I'd do a super duper/carbon copy backup to a couple rotating USB drives and stick one in an offsite location (doctor's home). I'd probably make the doctor's home machine a Mac mini too.
DR from a fire or theft that steals everything including your raid array is more catastrophic than simple hardware breakage and something that onsite backup or NBD repair doesn't address.
The only gotcha is that SLS keeps stuff in DBs that CCC/SD can't back up normally because the services are running. CCC and SD has scripts that help with that though by shutting down services before backing up.
For a hardware backup strategy I'd give the receptionist a normal mini rather than an iMac. You can possibly just restore a super duper copy right on top of his/her mini assuming it has a 500GB drive and you had the server in RAID 1 configuration (also 500GB usable).
Me, I'd do a super duper/carbon copy backup to a couple rotating USB drives and stick one in an offsite location (doctor's home). I'd probably make the doctor's home machine a Mac mini too.
DR from a fire or theft that steals everything including your raid array is more catastrophic than simple hardware breakage and something that onsite backup or NBD repair doesn't address.
The only gotcha is that SLS keeps stuff in DBs that CCC/SD can't back up normally because the services are running. CCC and SD has scripts that help with that though by shutting down services before backing up.
My set up has iMac workstations and a MM server. Hadn't thought about using a mini as a workstation that could function as a server in a pinch.
Minis are so cheap that I could buy a refurbed on an keep it as a spare off site.
I agree that a fire or other local physical damage to my facility is more of a worry than a drive failure. A fire would also take out a RAID set up. Then again that's what my off site BUs are for.
Everyone mentions lInux as the better server solution when discussing the MM server. Outside of using a Linux server for Web hosting and mail, I've not seen an instance where Linux server makes sense, at least for a medical or dental practice.
For a medical or dental practice, the self serve linux applications are a non-starter. Who will install and configure them? Who is going to train the staff? There are many Windows solutions and some are quite good. There are a few Mac applications and I think they are quite good. But I've never seen a Linux application actually used. They seem to me to be proof of concept project and not an actual product for real businesses.
Please stop this trolling.
The target customers will value the nice metal case more highly than better specs. They won't even understand the differences in the specs. And they won't be comparing the box against a PC, but instead, against other Macs.
That is irrelevant. Macs never ever win on bang for buck.
If you are looking for raw power at a good price, you need not even consider a Mac. Macs stress other attributes, not raw performance.
I see that even you are having trouble keeping straight which troll persona you are today, something of a cross between tekstud and iLuv above, and the occasional post from your WilliamG alias.
Perhaps you should practice your writing comprehension instead. Is there some way you do not understand that you called Apple consumers sheeple in that paragraph and why this might be considered trollish activity on an apple fan site?
Nah, that's inconceivable.
Not to mention that he made a flat statement that Apple doesn't know very much about its customers, implying that he knows Apple's customers better than Apple does. That is so insane that it's hard to believe that even one of the resident trolls could believe such foolishness.
Not to mention that he made a flat statement that Apple doesn't know very much about its customers, implying that he knows Apple's customers better than Apple does. That is so insane that it's hard to believe that even one of the resident trolls could believe such foolishness.
His statement implies that only if one assumes that all comparisons are to oneself.
My guess is that he was comparing Apple's actual knowledge to what they could/should know, rather than comparing Apple's knowledge with his own.
But you already knew that.