During the design phase, likely the available space in the Mini was also being designed. My guess is that they made the case the proper size to hold the guts they chose.
Do you think they first designed the case and then chose guts that would fit inside?
I never even suggested that.
That doesn't change the fact that BR would have required a much larger case than the superdrive. Apple's goal was to reduce the size and energy consumption significantly and BR is incompatible with that goal.
All of this is a pointless exercise in regards to the Mini being a real home media center device and I'm sure Apple is fully aware of this. The mini is a computer. The Apple TV is the better solution. The problem for the Apple TV is content and not hardware. There simply was no reason for the average person to replace the Apple TV because it didn't replace anything.
Could it use a version of the iOS? Sure, but unless Apple manages to convince content owners that they can make as much money (or more) as they do now through a subscription service nothing will change.
you're totally correct, that's why apple should license the itunes stores and some variation of the iOS to either satellite/cable tv providers (ie. direct tv, timer warner, cox cable, etc) or they shold license the itunes store to run on game consoles (xbox, wii and/or ps3)
will they do it? would cable, satellite provides or game consoles want itunes/ios?
probably not - maybe, maybe wii - but i wouldn't bet on any deal ever happening.
Do you think that Apple has increased its net profit by $100 over the last model and $200 since the first model
Yes.
Quote:
or that the "gorgeous [...] engineering" may be somewhat responsible for the price increase?
The new engineering process has not driven costs up by $200, or even $100. When the MacBook Pro line went unibody, that product didn't go up by $200, or even $100, so there's no reason the mini would either.
There's enough people that buy the mini to make it worthwhile for Apple to keep making it available. It's not the hot cake the iMac is, nor the big seller like the MacBook line, but there is clearly a market for it and that will continue.
This gives Apple an incentive to hike up the price, to increase the return they get on this product. That market will still exist, and people will continue to buy it, because it's the only mac of it's type.
Not saying there's anything wrong with jacking the price up, but to think that the quite staggering price increase is down to the new engineering process doesn't work for me.
The new engineering process has not driven costs up by $200, or even $100. When the MacBook Pro line went unibody, that product didn't go up by $200, or even $100, so there's no reason the mini would either.
So when I mention "engineering" the only thing you considered was the unibody casing. Let's not even get into the cost of milling an enclosed case, you haven't even considered the cost of putting the old Mac Mini + the external PSU into the new Mac Mini case. What's most interesting is that your comments aren't stated as speculative theories but as absolutes that Apple is ripping off the customer even more than usual despite offering no proof to a net profit increase.
The HP EliteBook offers an ulta-slim Blu-ray player for $400 extra and the Sony Vaio Z offers it for $500 extra. Both of them are tray-loading drives.
So, how could Apple offer the entire Mac mini with a drive that costs even more than the upgrade option they offer for a price that is about 60-70% of the entire price of the item?
You are talking about Portable computers which also include Led Screens. Laptops are always priced a bit more. Apple could at least offer a BluRay Playback drive in the mini. It wouldn't cost that much more.
You are talking about Portable computers which also include Led Screens. Laptops are always priced a bit more. Apple could at least offer a BluRay Playback drive in the mini. It wouldn't cost that much more.
What does an LCD display on a laptop have to with the cost of a 9.5mm ultra-slim ODD? No matter how you cut it, those notebooks and the Mac mini use the same size ODD.
...the new mini trades away a custom mini-DVI port for HDMI...
The specs at Apple.com page says that new mini has both DVI and HDMI ports as it has dual graphics. This is main feature for me, justyfing the higher price somewhat (although it is really sad to see entry level Mac to get more expensive).
The HP EliteBook offers an ulta-slim Blu-ray player for $400 extra and the Sony Vaio Z offers it for $500 extra. Both of them are tray-loading drives.
So, how could Apple offer the entire Mac mini with a drive that costs even more than the upgrade option they offer for a price that is about 60-70% of the entire price of the item?
No kidding.
Buy a Blu-Ray player, same brand as your HDTV for a unified remote, for $200 and be done with it.
The specs at Apple.com page says that new mini has both DVI and HDMI ports as it has dual graphics. This is main feature for me, justyfing the higher price somewhat (although it is really sad to see entry level Mac to get more expensive).
Is does not say this, it says the new mini has a DisplayPort and an HDMI port and ships with an HDMI-to-DVI adapter, but there is no DVI port.
Is does not say this, it says the new mini has a DisplayPort and an HDMI port and ships with an HDMI-to-DVI adapter, but there is no DVI port.
Correct. But there is DisplayPort as well as there are several DP->DVI adaptors, so this is not really big deal. Advantage is that you can have two displays at the same time, which is really handy, if you want to use the MM as media center, ie. connect it to the TV and Display at the same time. This is huge step forward for me, by far the biggest plus of the new model. And we haven't traded DVI for HDMI, we still can have both.
Comments
During the design phase, likely the available space in the Mini was also being designed. My guess is that they made the case the proper size to hold the guts they chose.
Do you think they first designed the case and then chose guts that would fit inside?
I never even suggested that.
That doesn't change the fact that BR would have required a much larger case than the superdrive. Apple's goal was to reduce the size and energy consumption significantly and BR is incompatible with that goal.
The SD card isn't for the guy who puts in under the TV, it's for the guy who uses it on his desk, or gal.
Still, majorly inconvenient position, yes.
I think my "gal" will be mightily annoyed if I use her for a Mac Mini stand.
All of this is a pointless exercise in regards to the Mini being a real home media center device and I'm sure Apple is fully aware of this. The mini is a computer. The Apple TV is the better solution. The problem for the Apple TV is content and not hardware. There simply was no reason for the average person to replace the Apple TV because it didn't replace anything.
Could it use a version of the iOS? Sure, but unless Apple manages to convince content owners that they can make as much money (or more) as they do now through a subscription service nothing will change.
you're totally correct, that's why apple should license the itunes stores and some variation of the iOS to either satellite/cable tv providers (ie. direct tv, timer warner, cox cable, etc) or they shold license the itunes store to run on game consoles (xbox, wii and/or ps3)
will they do it? would cable, satellite provides or game consoles want itunes/ios?
probably not - maybe, maybe wii - but i wouldn't bet on any deal ever happening.
The recent Jobs interview showed that he didn't want to enter the set-top box business because the Cable currently has all the cards in that game.
That said, the new Mini could be tweaked in a future version to replace the DVR, DVD/BR and Wii.
With the addition of FaceTime, this space could get really interesting.
Do you think that Apple has increased its net profit by $100 over the last model and $200 since the first model
Yes.
or that the "gorgeous [...] engineering" may be somewhat responsible for the price increase?
The new engineering process has not driven costs up by $200, or even $100. When the MacBook Pro line went unibody, that product didn't go up by $200, or even $100, so there's no reason the mini would either.
There's enough people that buy the mini to make it worthwhile for Apple to keep making it available. It's not the hot cake the iMac is, nor the big seller like the MacBook line, but there is clearly a market for it and that will continue.
This gives Apple an incentive to hike up the price, to increase the return they get on this product. That market will still exist, and people will continue to buy it, because it's the only mac of it's type.
Not saying there's anything wrong with jacking the price up, but to think that the quite staggering price increase is down to the new engineering process doesn't work for me.
The new engineering process has not driven costs up by $200, or even $100. When the MacBook Pro line went unibody, that product didn't go up by $200, or even $100, so there's no reason the mini would either.
So when I mention "engineering" the only thing you considered was the unibody casing. Let's not even get into the cost of milling an enclosed case, you haven't even considered the cost of putting the old Mac Mini + the external PSU into the new Mac Mini case. What's most interesting is that your comments aren't stated as speculative theories but as absolutes that Apple is ripping off the customer even more than usual despite offering no proof to a net profit increase.
The only benefits of the new one, basically, are faster graphics, the SD card slot and the new design.
The cons... one less USB plug, no mini-DVI (which means my Cinema Display would not work).
The HP EliteBook offers an ulta-slim Blu-ray player for $400 extra and the Sony Vaio Z offers it for $500 extra. Both of them are tray-loading drives.
So, how could Apple offer the entire Mac mini with a drive that costs even more than the upgrade option they offer for a price that is about 60-70% of the entire price of the item?
You are talking about Portable computers which also include Led Screens. Laptops are always priced a bit more. Apple could at least offer a BluRay Playback drive in the mini. It wouldn't cost that much more.
You are talking about Portable computers which also include Led Screens. Laptops are always priced a bit more. Apple could at least offer a BluRay Playback drive in the mini. It wouldn't cost that much more.
What does an LCD display on a laptop have to with the cost of a 9.5mm ultra-slim ODD? No matter how you cut it, those notebooks and the Mac mini use the same size ODD.
...the new mini trades away a custom mini-DVI port for HDMI...
The specs at Apple.com page says that new mini has both DVI and HDMI ports as it has dual graphics. This is main feature for me, justyfing the higher price somewhat (although it is really sad to see entry level Mac to get more expensive).
The HP EliteBook offers an ulta-slim Blu-ray player for $400 extra and the Sony Vaio Z offers it for $500 extra. Both of them are tray-loading drives.
So, how could Apple offer the entire Mac mini with a drive that costs even more than the upgrade option they offer for a price that is about 60-70% of the entire price of the item?
No kidding.
Buy a Blu-Ray player, same brand as your HDTV for a unified remote, for $200 and be done with it.
Blu-ray players upsample DVDs, too.
The specs at Apple.com page says that new mini has both DVI and HDMI ports as it has dual graphics. This is main feature for me, justyfing the higher price somewhat (although it is really sad to see entry level Mac to get more expensive).
Is does not say this, it says the new mini has a DisplayPort and an HDMI port and ships with an HDMI-to-DVI adapter, but there is no DVI port.
Is does not say this, it says the new mini has a DisplayPort and an HDMI port and ships with an HDMI-to-DVI adapter, but there is no DVI port.
Correct. But there is DisplayPort as well as there are several DP->DVI adaptors, so this is not really big deal. Advantage is that you can have two displays at the same time, which is really handy, if you want to use the MM as media center, ie. connect it to the TV and Display at the same time. This is huge step forward for me, by far the biggest plus of the new model. And we haven't traded DVI for HDMI, we still can have both.