Hackers release 'jailbreak' of iOS 4 for Apple's iPhone 3GS

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  • Reply 41 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    His plan does not allow him to do what he's doing. I don't care whether it's $0.50 per month or $50,000 per month. He's doing something that he knows is not covered by his contract.



    His plan does allow him to do what he is doing. His device, as shipped, does not.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    This entire thread is a great example of the entitlement I"m taking about. A number of people admit that what they're doing is not covered by their plan. Their provider does not allow it and wants to charge them considerably more money to do it. They don't think it's fair, so they do it, anyway.



    Absolutely, it is a great example of what you are talking about and just how wrong headed your thought process actually is.



    BTW, feeling entitled to something you are actually entitled to (and pay for) is pretty normal. Anarchist idea, I know.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    As I said, no sense of right or wrong any more.







    Again, you are right, some people do seem to be missing their own sense of right and wrong. It is pretty pathetic when they need to turn to a corporation to provide it for them. (In this case, even that isn't a tenable argument, since his carrier allows him to tether his iPad).
  • Reply 42 of 180
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    That's right. AT&T says it's wrong. You do NOT have the right to do what you're doing under your contract.



    I agree that it's unreasonable. If tethering mattered to me, I'd choose a different phone and/or provider. But that doesn't change the fact that you admit that WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT ALLOWED BY YOUR CONTRACT.



    You are taking a service that is not part of your contract. Period.







    His plan does not allow him to do what he's doing. I don't care whether it's $0.50 per month or $50,000 per month. He's doing something that he knows is not covered by his contract.



    This entire thread is a great example of the entitlement I"m taking about. A number of people admit that what they're doing is not covered by their plan. Their provider does not allow it and wants to charge them considerably more money to do it. They don't think it's fair, so they do it, anyway.



    As I said, no sense of right or wrong any more.



    You are not arguing right or wrong. You are arguing legal or illegal. Again, he is paying for his data. What exactly is he stealing? Potential lost earnings from a service in which they do nothing for that service?



    Where do you draw the line exactly? Are you American? What do you think of the American Revolution? That was against British law. The French Revolution?



    You seem to keep confusing morality and legality.
  • Reply 43 of 180
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    Ok, let me mellow out a little and respond to this on your level, my Terms of Service with O2 do not say that I cannot tether an iPad to my phone, Apple provides no software option for me to tether my iPhone to my iPad and I therefore have no option but to use an app like Mywi to tether my iPhone to my iPad.



    Now kindly stop referring to people as thieves.



    Your terms of service are different. I"m referring to people who admit that they're violating their terms of service.



    My position is clear. If you sign a contract that allows you to do something and you do it, you're clearly not a thief-and I didn't imply that you were (you are, of course, breaking your warranty terms with Apple so lose the right to have warranty service)



    OTOH, if you sign a contract that says you can do A for $a or B for $b (where $b > $a), and you pay $a but then choose to do B, then you're stealing the excess service. That was exactly the case for the person who I said was stealing the service. In his case $b was 100 UK pounds greater than $a, so he just took B after paying for A.



    No amount of rationalization changes that fact.
  • Reply 44 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Again, this conversation is headed towards something that reminds me of a piece on Fox News about the legalization of marijuana, and how dangerous and addictive weed is for children.



    Really, to those who think jailbreaking is wrong: Oh well. You can't stop it and it's not your business to.



    To those who don't have any issue with jailbreaking: Ignore the ones who do. They don't understand, and they are exactly the type of nitwits who were so eager to be hallway monitor back in elementary school, or who would tell on anyone about anything that seemed even mildly wrong.



    The discussion over the justification of jailbreaking is just so moronic I can't even begin to describe in words how irritating it is to read.
  • Reply 45 of 180
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,422member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Your terms of service are different. I"m referring to people who admit that they're violating their terms of service.



    My position is clear. If you sign a contract that allows you to do something and you do it, you're clearly not a thief-and I didn't imply that you were (you are, of course, breaking your warranty terms with Apple so lose the right to have warranty service)



    OTOH, if you sign a contract that says you can do A for $a or B for $b (where $b > $a), and you pay $a but then choose to do B, then you're stealing the excess service. That was exactly the case for the person who I said was stealing the service. In his case $b was 100 UK pounds greater than $a, so he just took B after paying for A.



    No amount of rationalization changes that fact.



    Glad that we are finally starting to see eye to eye, just confirm though you did call me a thief without checking your facts:



    "I'm only assuming that you're stealing because you're flat out admitting it. The fact that you pay to tether your laptop doesn't give you the right to use tethering on your iPad.



    You are not paying to tether your iPad. You admit that the service is available, but you don't like the cost ("I saw no reason as to why I should pay an extra £100 for an iPad (not including a monthly £10 a month contract) just to use mobile internet on it.")



    So you're using a service you didn't pay for. Don't play this crapola 'poor me, I'm so misunderstood' game. You know what you're doing and are simply trying to rationalize why it's OK.



    Like it or not, you're a thief."



    Happy to call it quits mate, I just hate it when people call me out for no reason, I have to accept your warranty point, but I'll live with it.
  • Reply 46 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Your terms of service are different. I"m referring to people who admit that they're violating their terms of service.



    My position is clear. If you sign a contract that allows you to do something and you do it, you're clearly not a thief-and I didn't imply that you were (you are, of course, breaking your warranty terms with Apple so lose the right to have warranty service)



    OTOH, if you sign a contract that says you can do A for $a or B for $b (where $b > $a), and you pay $a but then choose to do B, then you're stealing the excess service. That was exactly the case for the person who I said was stealing the service. In his case $b was 100 UK pounds greater than $a, so he just took B after paying for A.



    No amount of rationalization changes that fact.



    Um, was weed on a big sale today?



    The person you are replying to, was the person you called a thief. Repeatedly.



    The $b in your faulty equation there, was the 3G iPad differential. he chose notto pay that since he was already paying for tethering on his 3G iPhone. You called him a thief. I see now that you were confused. Doesn't justify the personal attacks though.
  • Reply 47 of 180
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I'm using a legal, factory-unlocked phone and legally have tethering enabled.



    I have jailbroken my phone in the past mainly for themes (Winterboard) which is great, and most useful, is Veency, so that I can demo my iPhone screen (to new iPhone users) on the projector through my MacBook Aluminum.



    App pirating? Not me. I don't use much apps anyways.



    I can NOT jailbreak my iPhone 3GS with OS4 because it has the new bootrom and also I previously jailbreak'd with Spirit.



    I may not jailbreak, I like the phone snappy and stable right now.
  • Reply 48 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I'm running a legal, factory-unlocked phone and legally have tethering enabled.



    I have jailbroken my phone in the past mainly for themes (Winterboard) which is great, and most useful, is Veency, so that I can demo my iPhone screen (to new iPhone users) on the projector through my MacBook Aluminum.



    App pirating? Not me. I don't use much apps anyways.



    Thief.

  • Reply 49 of 180
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Um, was weed on a big sale today?



    The person you are replying to, was the person you called a thief. Repeatedly.



    The $b in your faulty equation there, was the 3G iPad differential. he chose notto pay that since he was already paying for tethering on his 3G iPhone. You called him a thief. I see now that you were confused. Doesn't justify the personal attacks though.



    It doesn't matter. In his mind he believes the person should have bought the 3G version and paid for that data plan as well.



    He believes everything that is legal is right and everything that is illegal (or on the gray) is wrong. Morality has different standards for different people.



    I'm glad he doesn't know Jobs' bio or that would be great disappointment. There has been no other man in tech who has walked the gray line more in the first half of his life.
  • Reply 50 of 180
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezetation View Post


    Geesh, so now that there is multitasking I wonder what their excuse is now. Once tethering is official then there will be no masking their agenda to steal software and services.



    Some people work hard for what they get, others work hard to steal from those people.



    Maybe they just want to run apps that Steve and his moral police say no to. Whether that be because they were coded in a "forbidden" language and then cross-compiled, or maybe the material is offensive to Steve's sensibilities. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other since I don't jailbreak. I do support the activitivity though. It is an action that is core to our countries inovative nature. Steve himself started out that way. And I am certain that Apple and co have watched the advancements of the jailbreaks and figured out ways to make it native and work correctly. They'd deny it of course. Preventing the act of jailbreaking to me would seem to be illegal. It would be like preventing you from putting a performance exhaust on your car because they car manufacturer is offended by the sound that it creates. Let the jailbreakers continue their work, and realize that all things can be used for bad activities just as easily as they can be used for good ones.
  • Reply 51 of 180
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    It doesn't matter. In his mind he believes the person should have bought the 3G version and paid for that data plan as well.



    He believes everything that is legal is right and everything that is illegal (or on the gray) is wrong. Morality has a standards for different people.



    I'm glad he doesn't know Jobs or that would be great disappointment. There has been no other man in tech who has walked the gray line more in the first half of his life.



    Except in this case, the OP, saarek, was in the right, both legally and morally. That is what made jragosta's repeated personal attacks on him so uncalled for that they go far into the bizarre. Even after he was repeatedly corrected, he kept up the name calling and confusion. He has seemingly finally jumped the shark and joined Hiro, et all in some bizarro world.
  • Reply 52 of 180
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jeffritter955 View Post


    Maybe they just want to run apps that Steve and his moral police say no to. Whether that be because they were coded in a "forbidden" language and then cross-compiled, or maybe the material is offensive to Steve's sensibilities. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other since I don't jailbreak. I do support the activitivity though. It is an action that is core to our countries inovative nature. Steve himself started out that way. And I am certain that Apple and co have watched the advancements of the jailbreaks and figured out ways to make it native and work correctly. They'd deny it of course. Preventing the act of jailbreaking to me would seem to be illegal. It would be like preventing you from putting a performance exhaust on your car because they car manufacturer is offended by the sound that it creates. Let the jailbreakers continue their work, and realize that all things can be used for bad activities just as easily as they can be used for good ones.



    It's funny with Jobs because he is proud of that past. In the classic iPhone keynote where there was a demo issue he talked briefly about the Blue Boxes which were literally stealing from AT&T ironically.



    And yes, Apple has used dev community ideas and have even tried to use one of their icons.
  • Reply 53 of 180
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Your terms of service are different. I"m referring to people who admit that they're violating their terms of service.



    My position is clear. If you sign a contract that allows you to do something and you do it, you're clearly not a thief-and I didn't imply that you were (you are, of course, breaking your warranty terms with Apple so lose the right to have warranty service)



    OTOH, if you sign a contract that says you can do A for $a or B for $b (where $b > $a), and you pay $a but then choose to do B, then you're stealing the excess service. That was exactly the case for the person who I said was stealing the service. In his case $b was 100 UK pounds greater than $a, so he just took B after paying for A.



    No amount of rationalization changes that fact.



    I LOL'd That big back flip was so big you must be dizzy now!



    I guarantee you I'm way more offended by stupid people than you ever will be by jail-breakers... unfortunately we can't always get what we want!
  • Reply 54 of 180
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Except in this case, the OP, saarek, was in the right, both legally and morally. That is what made jragosta's repeated personal attacks on him so uncalled for that they go far into the bizarre. Even after he was repeatedly corrected, he kept up the name calling and confusion. He has seemingly finally jumped the shark and joined Hiro, et all in some bizarro world.



    I agree with you but it's fairly easy to see where jragosta is coming from and you won't convince him. He views morality and legality as being the same thing. While legally he clearly has a legitimate argument, morally it is far from clear (I think he's wrong).



    You won't convince him or others and get an apology. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree.
  • Reply 55 of 180
    beltsbearbeltsbear Posts: 314member
    I jailbreak to run SBSETTINGS, MXTUBE and the google voice app.



    MXTUBE allows me to download a video ONCE from Youtube and watch it over and over again without re-downloading it. This app actually saves ATT a ton of bandwidth.



    MXTUBE does not allow me to get any video that I could not already get on Youtube anyhow since it only downloads from Youtube.



    I have no pirated apps.
  • Reply 56 of 180
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stevie View Post


    That will not happen until Apple admits it.



    Apple won't do it. Why? There are a lot of stupid people in this world and if Apple gives the OK then they have to deal with the support calls from those screwing up their phone.



    They'll pretty much look the other way but they don't want this as the standard. They're trying to extend themselves to the average consumer and make the OS as simple as possible to understand. They've been quite successful at it.
  • Reply 57 of 180
    masternavmasternav Posts: 442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post


    Around a month ago I felt the exact way as you do now, since then I have bought an iPad and jailbroken my iPhone so that I can use Mywi, I pay for all of my iPhone apps as well as the 3 Jailbroken apps that I have, my data usage is only around 300mb a month and I saw no reason as to why I should pay an extra £100 for an iPad (not including a monthly £10 a month contract) just to use mobile internet on it.



    The idea that all jailbreakers are just thieves is wrong, as I have proven to myself.



    The app store has probably had around £400 of my money over the last 2 and a bit years, just because my iPhone is now jailbroken it is wrong to assume that I will now steal everything.



    All universal attributions are wrong. Think about it.



    When posters cite everyone/no one, all [name your sub-category of humanity], or use statements like "you all are" it is an invitation to disregard pretty much anything that follows as false. It becomes a convenient filter flag, and allows anyone who cares to dynamically filter the more bozo'd entries in these threads.



    So saarek, while you have practical considerations that drive your justification to jail-break, note that you specifically ARE justifying it. That is, you are defending a questionable activity with reasons WHY it should be allowed or supported. Which is fine - but don't expect universal moral support for it either - right?



  • Reply 58 of 180
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stevie View Post


    In response to saarek, you said:



    " In your case, you're stealing "



    Just in case you are interested in facts.



    So your argument isthat taking without permission and with explicit acknowledgment that you don't have permission is in no way stealing?
  • Reply 59 of 180
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I'm using a legal, factory-unlocked phone and legally have tethering enabled.



    I have jailbroken my phone in the past mainly for themes (Winterboard) which is great, and most useful, is Veency, so that I can demo my iPhone screen (to new iPhone users) on the projector through my MacBook Aluminum.



    App pirating? Not me. I don't use much apps anyways.



    I can NOT jailbreak my iPhone 3GS with OS4 because it has the new bootrom and also I previously jailbreak'd with Spirit.



    I may not jailbreak, I like the phone snappy and stable right now.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Thief.





    LOL
  • Reply 60 of 180
    aurchonaurchon Posts: 18member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    All universal attributions are wrong. Think about it.



    So saarek, while you have practical considerations that drive your justification to jail-break, note that you specifically ARE justifying it. That is, you are defending a questionable activity with reasons WHY it should be allowed or supported. Which is fine - but don't expect universal moral support for it either - right?







    So when he pays for a internet service thru any provider he has in the UK, connects it to a router, is he stealing internet for his iPad? That is what he is doing with his iPhone. Turning it into a router. He is PAYING for the tethering service on his iPhone therefore he has a valid data plan and the courier of his choice knows he is sharing the 3G service with other devices.



    The simple fact that he had to jailbreak his phone to get the software to do this doesn't mean he is stealing any services for getting internet to his iPad.



    Remember, that some people want easier ways or don't have home internet, or take the iPad on the go all the time. This is why there are seperate plans for the iPad. However that doesn't mean it is the only legit way to get the services.



    BTW, for those pointing fingers, I hope your life is squeaky clean, obey every traffic law, city by-law, state (province or whatever) law.



    What I feel is sad are those who know they are wrong, but ego/pride gets in the way and they have to continue to argue or defend their point without saying a simple word. "Sorry".
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