"... The troll saying everyone's been doing mobile video chat for 7 years? no they haven't. Nokia's been enabling postage stamp video chat that is pretty much worthless, but costs up the ying-yang."
Oh come on. They've been doing video calls on Star Trek since the first show in 1966. In color, even. Just not with their handsets.
I think Skype is leading in voip/ video chat. They will probably seriously consider supporting FaceTime after super high demand of the iPhone 4. If FaceTime truly is a 100% open standard it will be clearly documented how to establish a FaceTime connection and open up a stream - Skype is free to do that through a Skype to iPhone 4 call, or a Skype PC to Skype iPhone call.
Now your 3 year old phone is the EVO is mentions in his post.
Now I know reading isn't your best skill, so I will quote his message again to try and give you another go.
Quote:
Also, even though facetime is just wifi, can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know. I've read that the new evo's video calls are a pain to set up and barely work
See he wrote "can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know.".
The important part to take from that sentence is "any other phone OS's". And I gave an example of my current phone, which falls in that "any other phone" bit.
His mentioning of the Evo was regarding an article he had read, not referring to the initial sentence.
Now I know it is tough, but hopefully you have got that this time around.
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by AppleInsider
An Apple representative has clarified that the new FaceTime video calls won't use up carrier minutes, even when a video chat is originated during a phone call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue
Ummm Duhh!!!! When the video phone call stops going over wireless and starts going over wifi, its NOT USING WIRELESS any more so they cant charge you for time you are not using.
Only Appleinsider could try to spin this BS. Apple is not going to force some new standard with this. iOS 5 or whatever they will call it will support it over 3G on the next iPhone and iPad, just like other vendors do today. Just like how they had to use MMS after the fact.
They must hand out really good drugs at Appleinsider. Video phone calling on the new iPhone is the biggest "So What" of the launch. You need iPhone 4.0's and wifi before it even works. Way to many limitations out of the gate.
\
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
There you go just for fun and to make a point, don't quote the whole article when you make a reply and certainly NOT when you're the first to post...
Sure, video calling on the phone is not new blah blah blah but do you read the fine line? They are two different technologies which employ two different methods to do the same thing which would produce two different results. Until Joe public can make a comparison between the two implementations, we won't know how this going to change video calling (on the phone or otherwise).
Secondly, if you follow Apple iphone's history and strategy, they never do all things at once. Just like the apps which started only in the form of sandboxes and only to limited developers. As Steve Jobs have said, they are still working with the carriers since well, you knew this already, new implementation for seamless integration etc. Just look at visual voice mail when Apple made it on the iPhone.
You are right when face time is initiated (over wifi) you won't be charge for the mobile connection. It is logic after all as you might have think but do you know this for sure before you read the article? You wouldn't know how the two different data will translate when you for example to decide yo go back to the voice call after a facetime session or when you want to initiate a conference call or answer an incoming call. Maybe the voice call or line stays in the background when you are in facetime after all it is still a phone call albeit with video rather than voice.
And there you go, i'm actually going to bed myself. It is late already
First of all, don't quote the hole aricle... Thats not nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas
I think Skype is leading in voip/ video chat. They will probably seriously consider supporting FaceTime after super high demand of the iPhone 4. If FaceTime truly is a 100% open standard it will be clearly documented how to establish a FaceTime connection and open up a stream - Skype is free to do that through a Skype to iPhone 4 call, or a Skype PC to Skype iPhone call.
Skype will never support another protocol, at least not before they are almost nonexistent or they can pull the embrace extend extinguish technique. They have a monopoly now in the consumer space and they will not risk it. Sure they could do that being open standard and all, but their closed skype protocol is what makes them competitive against other providers.
All they will do is try to improve their phone clients in stability and hardware support, and maybe implement some Apple features themselves for their own protocol
First of all, don't quote the hole aricle... Thats not nice.
Skype will never support another protocol, at least not before they are almost nonexistent or they can pull the embrace extend extinguish technique. They have a monopoly now in the consumer space and they will not risk it. Sure they could do that being open standard and all, but their closed skype protocol is what makes them competitive against other providers.
All they will do is try to improve their phone clients in stability and hardware support, and maybe implement some Apple features themselves for their own protocol
"We are not considering FaceTime as a technological platform for video calling in our own products.
However, given Apple's statement about FaceTime being an open platform, we are looking forward to see how it unfolds. We look forward to working with Apple to make sure the millions of users of Skype on the iPhone get the best possible experience when it comes to video calls on mobile devices and beyond."
i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.
Maybe, but how do you deal with not having a front facing camera? Are you going to build a reverse periscope add-on so the camera can see you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop
FaceTime isn't restricted from using 3G because of some artificial boundary Apple erected. It's because mobile 3G doesn't deliver the bandwidth and latency necessary to host a quality video chat.
Have you ever used iChat AV? Have you ever tried to maintain a video chat over Internet access equivalent to 3G? If mobile 3G were able to support high quality video chat, then people would actually be doing it.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually wanted to do video calls, people would actually be doing it already. It seems like video calls are a corner case, a spouse away on a business trip, occasional calls to grandparents. Most other calls can do just as well without video, even with active video call users, 90+% of calls would still be voice. As it is, I haven't heard of a lot of people using the little iSight camera for video chats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac
On this site? Never happen.
More like on the internet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm
How many computers do you know that except telephone calls - what is the telephone number of your desktop?
I recall Apple was able to do iChat without a phone number, so what's the problem again? The phone number part is just one way to make the initiation easier, but I'm not seeing anything that prevents initiation with a computer, except the lack of implementation of that part of the procedure, which Apple will probably give us in OS X 10.7 or a 10.6.x update several months from now.
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
How many people spend the better part of their day at the office or at home-- where a WiFi connection is available?
without wanting to retype what i posted above, i'd suggest you go read my post. But heres he bullet points:
- yes I HAVE had experience doing a video chat over 3G. In a congested AT&T area (los angeles) and yes it works just fine.
- i used the benm.at tethering hack and successfully did video chats about 3-4 times on separate occasions. also a few times while i was also on a phone call on that same tethered iphone at the same time.
-looked the same as an ichat over wifi as far as lag is concerned. barely any lag at all.
A few peeps doing it with hacked 3G's is different than 10 million all doing it, don'cha think?
Why are people insisting this should work with none phone devices? This is not video chat; this is video phone calls. There is a subtile, but real difference. First and foremost, this is a phone call. Before video is engaged, a PHONE call has to be placed. This is an additional layer to a PHONE call. People who are claiming this has been around for a while... really? I think you are confusing a chat session with a phone call. What's the difference? Geeks video chat; normal people make calls.
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
Yeah the iPad was a non-story too. Wouldn't take off, nobody would use it...blah blah....in case you live under a rock, (I'm assuming you do seeing as you seem to think there aren't wifi hotspots around), why not wait and see? Jesus, it's buzzkills like you who always have to be negative about something that hasn't even been tried in the real world yet. Come back in 6 months and tell us how big a non-story this is...
Why are people insisting this should work with none phone devices? This is not video chat; this is video phone calls. There is a subtile, but real difference. First and foremost, this is a phone call. Before video is engaged, a PHONE call has to be placed. This is an additional layer to a PHONE call. People who are claiming this has been around for a while... really? I think you are confusing a chat session with a phone call. What's the difference? Geeks video chat; normal people make calls.
Why would Apple put a camera in every notebook if only the "geeks" are going to want to use it? That notebook camera needs a reason to be there, and other than five minutes of playing with Photo Booth when the computer is opened for the first time, it doesn't seem like people use it.
As I've said before, the phone call part is just an initialization method, I don't see anything that prevents video calls/chats to computer with some other connection initialization method when Apple gets around to it.
I think the fact that the video portion doesn't even use the phone system weakens the argument that it's a phone call, if it weren't for the initial call, would be totally an internet video chat.
Why would Apple put a camera in every notebook if only the "geeks" are going to want to use it?
The very nature of video chat on a computer is an advanced feature. Even though iChat does a great job at simplifying it, video chat still is what it is. There is always that extra layer of setup and accounts to deal with.
FaceTime hasn't been done before to my knowledge. It boils it down to a phone call. That is something that the oldest of grandmas know how to do. ZERO CONFIGURATION!
As for the wifi limit, I say no big deal. People using landlines are used to making a call from inside of one building to another building. That is the nature of the landline. Cell towers let us take the calls outside. But cell towers have not killed the landline. The iPhone 4 might. Providing the person is calling another iP4, using FT will be no more restrictive than a landline.
As far as being out and about, Apple and AT&T have made it easier than ever to access quality, public hotspots for free. Malls, coffee houses, hospitals, restaurants, bookstores, places of work, and city parks are often blanketed with wifi that is free to iPhone users. I call straw man on the whole wifi only issue.
Doubters will continue to try and pretend that this has all been done before, but it hasn't. I have yet to see any significant mention in the tech press of video calls on cell phones, despite the fact that many handsets have front-facing cameras kludged on to them. Where is the HW/SW integration? Where is the ease of use? Where are the examples of how great it is? The world of communication as we know it has about three more days to live. All the Evos and Droids in the world can't stop it.
FaceTime seems cool, doubt I'd use it though. Wifi+vid chatting = burned out battery I believe. And if I'm in a position to plug it in I'd likely use my MBP instead.
The very nature of video chat on a computer is an advanced feature. Even though iChat does a great job at simplifying it, video chat still is what it is. There is always that extra layer of setup and accounts to deal with.
That's the thing, I felt I had to ask about it, the presence of the camera in a computer has been an ongoing question for me. There are always some people that use it, but I don't get the impression that it's commonly used. Apple has a tendency to drop features that aren't widely used, so the continued presence of the camera is still perplexing.
There's always room for improvement, so if there's any legs to the video talk idea, I hope Apple can take it upon themselves to do so pretty soon. I recall Go To Meeting to be pretty simple, you just type in a shared code and you're doing screen sharing, no accounts and even no software installation if I recall correctly. I don't see why that couldn't be improved and be used for computer video talk.
FaceTime is a mixed bag, as expected. Even over fast cable connections using 802.11n and no excessive data usage on the LANs. Surely they are working with carriers and HW makers to make sure the protocols get QoS and ports are forwarded, but so far I can't find out what they might be.
FaceTime is a mixed bag, as expected. Even over fast cable connections using 802.11n and no excessive data usage on the LANs. Surely they are working with carriers and HW makers to make sure the protocols get QoS and ports are forwarded, but so far I can't find out what they might be.
That's not good, the selling point is that you shouldn't need to touch any settings or have special equipment.
Comments
Oh come on. They've been doing video calls on Star Trek since the first show in 1966. In color, even. Just not with their handsets.
Now your 3 year old phone is the EVO is mentions in his post.
Now I know reading isn't your best skill, so I will quote his message again to try and give you another go.
Also, even though facetime is just wifi, can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know. I've read that the new evo's video calls are a pain to set up and barely work
See he wrote "can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know.".
The important part to take from that sentence is "any other phone OS's". And I gave an example of my current phone, which falls in that "any other phone" bit.
His mentioning of the Evo was regarding an article he had read, not referring to the initial sentence.
Now I know it is tough, but hopefully you have got that this time around.
An Apple representative has clarified that the new FaceTime video calls won't use up carrier minutes, even when a video chat is originated during a phone call.
Ummm Duhh!!!! When the video phone call stops going over wireless and starts going over wifi, its NOT USING WIRELESS any more so they cant charge you for time you are not using.
Only Appleinsider could try to spin this BS. Apple is not going to force some new standard with this. iOS 5 or whatever they will call it will support it over 3G on the next iPhone and iPad, just like other vendors do today. Just like how they had to use MMS after the fact.
They must hand out really good drugs at Appleinsider. Video phone calling on the new iPhone is the biggest "So What" of the launch. You need iPhone 4.0's and wifi before it even works. Way to many limitations out of the gate.
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
There you go just for fun and to make a point, don't quote the whole article when you make a reply and certainly NOT when you're the first to post...
Sure, video calling on the phone is not new blah blah blah but do you read the fine line? They are two different technologies which employ two different methods to do the same thing which would produce two different results. Until Joe public can make a comparison between the two implementations, we won't know how this going to change video calling (on the phone or otherwise).
Secondly, if you follow Apple iphone's history and strategy, they never do all things at once. Just like the apps which started only in the form of sandboxes and only to limited developers. As Steve Jobs have said, they are still working with the carriers since well, you knew this already, new implementation for seamless integration etc. Just look at visual voice mail when Apple made it on the iPhone.
You are right when face time is initiated (over wifi) you won't be charge for the mobile connection. It is logic after all as you might have think but do you know this for sure before you read the article? You wouldn't know how the two different data will translate when you for example to decide yo go back to the voice call after a facetime session or when you want to initiate a conference call or answer an incoming call. Maybe the voice call or line stays in the background when you are in facetime after all it is still a phone call albeit with video rather than voice.
And there you go, i'm actually going to bed myself. It is late already
I think Skype is leading in voip/ video chat. They will probably seriously consider supporting FaceTime after super high demand of the iPhone 4. If FaceTime truly is a 100% open standard it will be clearly documented how to establish a FaceTime connection and open up a stream - Skype is free to do that through a Skype to iPhone 4 call, or a Skype PC to Skype iPhone call.
Skype will never support another protocol, at least not before they are almost nonexistent or they can pull the embrace extend extinguish technique. They have a monopoly now in the consumer space and they will not risk it. Sure they could do that being open standard and all, but their closed skype protocol is what makes them competitive against other providers.
All they will do is try to improve their phone clients in stability and hardware support, and maybe implement some Apple features themselves for their own protocol
First of all, don't quote the hole aricle... Thats not nice.
Skype will never support another protocol, at least not before they are almost nonexistent or they can pull the embrace extend extinguish technique. They have a monopoly now in the consumer space and they will not risk it. Sure they could do that being open standard and all, but their closed skype protocol is what makes them competitive against other providers.
All they will do is try to improve their phone clients in stability and hardware support, and maybe implement some Apple features themselves for their own protocol
"We are not considering FaceTime as a technological platform for video calling in our own products.
However, given Apple's statement about FaceTime being an open platform, we are looking forward to see how it unfolds. We look forward to working with Apple to make sure the millions of users of Skype on the iPhone get the best possible experience when it comes to video calls on mobile devices and beyond."
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/s...h-anyone-else/
I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?
How many computers do you know that except telephone calls - what is the telephone number of your desktop?
one more reason to jailbreak.
i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.
Maybe, but how do you deal with not having a front facing camera? Are you going to build a reverse periscope add-on so the camera can see you?
FaceTime isn't restricted from using 3G because of some artificial boundary Apple erected. It's because mobile 3G doesn't deliver the bandwidth and latency necessary to host a quality video chat.
Have you ever used iChat AV? Have you ever tried to maintain a video chat over Internet access equivalent to 3G? If mobile 3G were able to support high quality video chat, then people would actually be doing it.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually wanted to do video calls, people would actually be doing it already. It seems like video calls are a corner case, a spouse away on a business trip, occasional calls to grandparents. Most other calls can do just as well without video, even with active video call users, 90+% of calls would still be voice. As it is, I haven't heard of a lot of people using the little iSight camera for video chats.
On this site? Never happen.
More like on the internet?
How many computers do you know that except telephone calls - what is the telephone number of your desktop?
I recall Apple was able to do iChat without a phone number, so what's the problem again? The phone number part is just one way to make the initiation easier, but I'm not seeing anything that prevents initiation with a computer, except the lack of implementation of that part of the procedure, which Apple will probably give us in OS X 10.7 or a 10.6.x update several months from now.
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
How many people spend the better part of their day at the office or at home-- where a WiFi connection is available?
I mean come on. This is a very important story!
.
without wanting to retype what i posted above, i'd suggest you go read my post. But heres he bullet points:
- yes I HAVE had experience doing a video chat over 3G. In a congested AT&T area (los angeles) and yes it works just fine.
- i used the benm.at tethering hack and successfully did video chats about 3-4 times on separate occasions. also a few times while i was also on a phone call on that same tethered iphone at the same time.
-looked the same as an ichat over wifi as far as lag is concerned. barely any lag at all.
A few peeps doing it with hacked 3G's is different than 10 million all doing it, don'cha think?
One last point to consider, ZERO CONFIGURATION!
Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
Yeah the iPad was a non-story too. Wouldn't take off, nobody would use it...blah blah....in case you live under a rock, (I'm assuming you do seeing as you seem to think there aren't wifi hotspots around), why not wait and see? Jesus, it's buzzkills like you who always have to be negative about something that hasn't even been tried in the real world yet. Come back in 6 months and tell us how big a non-story this is...
I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?
It will come, be patient.
Why are people insisting this should work with none phone devices? This is not video chat; this is video phone calls. There is a subtile, but real difference. First and foremost, this is a phone call. Before video is engaged, a PHONE call has to be placed. This is an additional layer to a PHONE call. People who are claiming this has been around for a while... really? I think you are confusing a chat session with a phone call. What's the difference? Geeks video chat; normal people make calls.
Why would Apple put a camera in every notebook if only the "geeks" are going to want to use it? That notebook camera needs a reason to be there, and other than five minutes of playing with Photo Booth when the computer is opened for the first time, it doesn't seem like people use it.
As I've said before, the phone call part is just an initialization method, I don't see anything that prevents video calls/chats to computer with some other connection initialization method when Apple gets around to it.
I think the fact that the video portion doesn't even use the phone system weakens the argument that it's a phone call, if it weren't for the initial call, would be totally an internet video chat.
Why would Apple put a camera in every notebook if only the "geeks" are going to want to use it?
The very nature of video chat on a computer is an advanced feature. Even though iChat does a great job at simplifying it, video chat still is what it is. There is always that extra layer of setup and accounts to deal with.
FaceTime hasn't been done before to my knowledge. It boils it down to a phone call. That is something that the oldest of grandmas know how to do. ZERO CONFIGURATION!
As for the wifi limit, I say no big deal. People using landlines are used to making a call from inside of one building to another building. That is the nature of the landline. Cell towers let us take the calls outside. But cell towers have not killed the landline. The iPhone 4 might. Providing the person is calling another iP4, using FT will be no more restrictive than a landline.
As far as being out and about, Apple and AT&T have made it easier than ever to access quality, public hotspots for free. Malls, coffee houses, hospitals, restaurants, bookstores, places of work, and city parks are often blanketed with wifi that is free to iPhone users. I call straw man on the whole wifi only issue.
Doubters will continue to try and pretend that this has all been done before, but it hasn't. I have yet to see any significant mention in the tech press of video calls on cell phones, despite the fact that many handsets have front-facing cameras kludged on to them. Where is the HW/SW integration? Where is the ease of use? Where are the examples of how great it is? The world of communication as we know it has about three more days to live. All the Evos and Droids in the world can't stop it.
The very nature of video chat on a computer is an advanced feature. Even though iChat does a great job at simplifying it, video chat still is what it is. There is always that extra layer of setup and accounts to deal with.
That's the thing, I felt I had to ask about it, the presence of the camera in a computer has been an ongoing question for me. There are always some people that use it, but I don't get the impression that it's commonly used. Apple has a tendency to drop features that aren't widely used, so the continued presence of the camera is still perplexing.
There's always room for improvement, so if there's any legs to the video talk idea, I hope Apple can take it upon themselves to do so pretty soon. I recall Go To Meeting to be pretty simple, you just type in a shared code and you're doing screen sharing, no accounts and even no software installation if I recall correctly. I don't see why that couldn't be improved and be used for computer video talk.
FaceTime is a mixed bag, as expected. Even over fast cable connections using 802.11n and no excessive data usage on the LANs. Surely they are working with carriers and HW makers to make sure the protocols get QoS and ports are forwarded, but so far I can't find out what they might be.
That's not good, the selling point is that you shouldn't need to touch any settings or have special equipment.