I expect to see a new form factor in June 2011. I'm SO glad i waited on a purchase of this new device. My 3G with iOS4 up and running smoothly will sufice for now!
Excuse partial quote but just wanted to expand on your last paragraph ...
According to many now, even iPhone 3Gs has same problem with iOS 4 ... check out this very post earlier on ...
This is the extent to which this is being over blown and becoming hysterical. Next it will be MacBooks fail at WiFi when your left hand is on the corner!
BTW, I agree, my 3Gs is fine with iOS 4 as is my 3G.
FFC's fault my ass. This iPhone has this issue worse than previous iPhones, the FFC's rules haven't changed. He's an antenna engineer and he still bought an iPhone 4? He's one dumb antenna engineer.
Another antenna guy had a story two weeks back that predicted it, the link in over on digg.
I really have to wonder how many of the people that are whining about this issue actually have the new iPhone.
There's a big possibility that this issue has gone viral and it's the in thing at the moment to gripe about Apple.
As an example... I noticed that the main whiners on this forum are the regular bitch and moan crowd. Do you really have the new iPhone? Really?
I'd like to see some statistics regarding user satisfaction.
On the contrary, near as I can tell everyone who says things are fine don't have the phone and those who say there's a problem do. I'm typing this on my iphone4 right now. I've owned every model of iPhone Apples made and have apps in the app store. I have a Mac, iPad, and have been using Macs since 1988. I'm a software engineer by trade and took a few EE courses at Carnegie Mellon back in the day. Do you want my full resume? The problem is real and it's not just losing a bar or two because of a blocked signal. It's sequentially losing ALL bars in the span of seconds and your phone going to "Searching..." because you thought it was okay to hold the phone at the left bottom corner (as almost any right-hander would hold a touch-only phone.)
Don't get me wrong... Strangely enough I'd probably STILL go for this phone. The screen is absolutely phenomenal and it's an engineering marvel. I can probably build some new muscle memory to hold the phone differently. But don't lie to me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't see how you would have given anyone something legitimate to complain about. If it's legit then it should be complained about. I never cared for defending Apple, if the goods are good enough you shouldn't need to.
My point about "legitimate" was made because I've read many so-called complaints that were only sour grapes. My guess is that this antenna flap will fade. I fully expect it will be fixed in future upgrades. It won't stop me from getting an iPhone when Verizon comes on board.
What applies for DC does not apply for RF, especially with respect to UHF and microwave.
Exactly. That's why "shorting" with a 1kOms of your hand does not do anything. The capacitive impedance, on the other hand can be essential, especially at high frequencies.
i [with my two macpro's, macbook pro, macbook air, ipad, 2 iphones and mac mini] am not a troll, but EVERYONE I KNOW WHO BOUGHT AN IPHONE 4 CAN REPLICATE THIS PROBLEM to the point where they get "no signal". this is a QC nightmare.
if Apple's solution is to tell us to go spend 29 dollars on a silicone bumper that it costs them 18 cents to manufacture, they can go fcuk themselves. their "genius" antenna needs fixed, in the meantime, they NEED to give those bumpers out free to everyone who bought an iPhone4.
Apple's obviously wrong, and they're really pushing the line in terms of how much bs they can sell to the public.
Obvious flaw in Apple's logic: If any mobile phone has reception issues when held wrong, why are some reporting that their iP4 doesn't suffer from this!?
I've honestly never heard of this, and I've been using a cell phone of some kind for about 10 years now.
This is turning into a very ugly product introduction and it really exposes a fundamental flaw at Apple concerning real-world testing... they simply don't know how to do it!
They did except that there security is so tight that every phone that left the compound was wrapped in a disguise, a case that kept this from happening, oooops.
In a matter of weeks millions of iPhone 4' users will be able to report in ... already there are a hell of a lot of them ... so if it is as bad is the trolls want you all to think it is we will see them all being returned. I wonder how many have been returned far?
I am sure Apple may tweak the design slightly, or mod the OS but given this is a common fact for all mobile phones only a troll would be trying to persuade people not to buy iPhones because of this.
The sky is not falling folk,s no matter how much Scotland or whatever his name is wants you to think it is.
You title your post "common sense..."!? What is wrong with you???
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
but given this is a common fact for all mobile phones
This part made me laugh at first, but then I sighed in pity. This is the epitome of "Letting Steve Jobs think for me" syndrome.
Here's a shocker: This IS NOT a common fact for all mobile phones. If a few weeks ago I told you this, you would have debated me up and down that I'm wrong, and that your iphone doesn't suffer from it because it's not a POS. Now that Jobs has said it, there's no questioning it.
They did except that there security is so tight that every phone that left the compound was wrapped in a disguise, a case that kept this from happening, oooops.
They aren't admitting their mistake because they didn't make one. All cell phones have potential issues with how you hold them.
Yes they did, more to follow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And the fact that there's not 100% reports of this 'mistake' shows that it's not all about the design. Some of it could be user error. Some of it could also just be shitty ATT coverage in the area. In fact several of the folks that I saw making reports of this 'major design flaw' admitted that they 'have never had great ATT service in the area'. Well geez Beav could that be the issue and not the phone at all. perhaps.
100% of the people do not have the same type of hand, are not all right handed ect...... User Error, sorry how dare you hold your phone in your hand that is not what is meant to do. Just because it is not 100% does not make it a non-issue, ask Toyota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Apple can not be responsible for those that put a hand right over the antennas, after they told folks that that's what the band is. they can't be responsible for those that drop or lose their phones or get them wet etc. No more than any other company. If this was an Android, Rim etc we wouldn't be hearing about it. Because it's Apple all 'flaws' are suddenly a huge thing.
God forbid someone might want to actually hold their cell phone they way it was meant to be held. Maybe Apple should have made a phone that a user can not put a hand right over the antenna but they didn't, the screwed up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Perhaps the mistake they need to correct is this media obsession with painting them as perfect so then folks will stop with the expectations.
Perhaps Stevie needs to man up for once and admit a mistake, oh he doesnt have to because all the fanbois will forgive him regardless and keep shelling out money to him.
First of all, i have to say i'm glad Apple has come out and admitted there is an issue with the signal when you hold it certain ways. It's always nice to hear it from the horse's proverbial mouth.
Second, I can't say i'm too suprised by the response from Apple as well. Blame it on the technology why don't you?\
For a company that prides itself to provide the most innovative user-freindly products that work every time you use it without problems, to provide products that are well designed, built and perform to the highest level of self scrutany, and for a company headed by a man that nit-picks every minor detail about a device and places the fear of god into it's designers and engineers to perfect it, i'm a little dissapointed by the excuses and solutions brough forth today.
Even Apple can't override the laws of physics.
Let's get it straight. There are TWO different iPhone 4 issues and Apple has commented on them separately:
1. The signal loss when the antenna is covered. This happens on every cell phone ever made and is controlled by the laws of physics. They could increase cell phone power to compensate, but the FCC wouldn't allow it (not to mention that then all the complainers would be talking about Apple's phones emitting too much radiation). For this issue, Apple's statement was that it's limited by physics and they can't do anything about that - so if it bothers you, you'll have to change the way you hold it. The same would be true of any other phone on the planet (yes, I know that some of you have never had problems with other phones, but some people never have problems with the new iPhone, either. Some people HAVE had problems with all types of phones).
2. A completely unrelated issue, apparently related to touching the antenna at or near where the two antennae approach each other. Probably due to a capacitance issue. Apple acknowledged this one, too, and told Mossberg that there will be a software fix. Many people (including myself) see the number of bars drop when touching the phone there, but signal quality (as measured by Speedtest) doesn't change. There are reports of dropped calls, but it's not yet clear that this is anything more than AT&T's behavior with heavy traffic.
#2 is design related and needs to be fixed. Apple says software will fix it. Let's give them the chance to prove it before going on any campaigns.
IF the software patch doesn't fix #2, then Apple will need to do some design work. First priority would be to figure out what the problem is and then fix it so they don't produce 30 M bad phones. Then, the should repair or replace phones that are already in the wild. It's that simple.
If they wish, they might also offer a choice of a free bumper or a full refund, as well.
Apple has a history of high quality products and addressing problems when they come up. There's no reason to think this will be any different - but expecting Apple to violate the laws of physics is just unreasonable.
Comments
Who is the bonehead at Apple who decided it would be a good idea to blame the customer?
It's shocking that those word are true. Ashamed Mac user here.
I expect to see a new form factor in June 2011. I'm SO glad i waited on a purchase of this new device. My 3G with iOS4 up and running smoothly will sufice for now!
Excuse partial quote but just wanted to expand on your last paragraph ...
According to many now, even iPhone 3Gs has same problem with iOS 4 ... check out this very post earlier on ...
This is the extent to which this is being over blown and becoming hysterical. Next it will be MacBooks fail at WiFi when your left hand is on the corner!
BTW, I agree, my 3Gs is fine with iOS 4 as is my 3G.
Interesting analysis by an antenna engineer:
Article here (spotted on Daring Fireball)
FFC's fault my ass. This iPhone has this issue worse than previous iPhones, the FFC's rules haven't changed. He's an antenna engineer and he still bought an iPhone 4? He's one dumb antenna engineer.
Another antenna guy had a story two weeks back that predicted it, the link in over on digg.
I really have to wonder how many of the people that are whining about this issue actually have the new iPhone.
There's a big possibility that this issue has gone viral and it's the in thing at the moment to gripe about Apple.
As an example... I noticed that the main whiners on this forum are the regular bitch and moan crowd. Do you really have the new iPhone? Really?
I'd like to see some statistics regarding user satisfaction.
On the contrary, near as I can tell everyone who says things are fine don't have the phone and those who say there's a problem do. I'm typing this on my iphone4 right now. I've owned every model of iPhone Apples made and have apps in the app store. I have a Mac, iPad, and have been using Macs since 1988. I'm a software engineer by trade and took a few EE courses at Carnegie Mellon back in the day. Do you want my full resume? The problem is real and it's not just losing a bar or two because of a blocked signal. It's sequentially losing ALL bars in the span of seconds and your phone going to "Searching..." because you thought it was okay to hold the phone at the left bottom corner (as almost any right-hander would hold a touch-only phone.)
Don't get me wrong... Strangely enough I'd probably STILL go for this phone. The screen is absolutely phenomenal and it's an engineering marvel. I can probably build some new muscle memory to hold the phone differently. But don't lie to me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't see how you would have given anyone something legitimate to complain about. If it's legit then it should be complained about. I never cared for defending Apple, if the goods are good enough you shouldn't need to.
My point about "legitimate" was made because I've read many so-called complaints that were only sour grapes. My guess is that this antenna flap will fade. I fully expect it will be fixed in future upgrades. It won't stop me from getting an iPhone when Verizon comes on board.
What applies for DC does not apply for RF, especially with respect to UHF and microwave.
Exactly. That's why "shorting" with a 1kOms of your hand does not do anything. The capacitive impedance, on the other hand can be essential, especially at high frequencies.
if Apple's solution is to tell us to go spend 29 dollars on a silicone bumper that it costs them 18 cents to manufacture, they can go fcuk themselves. their "genius" antenna needs fixed, in the meantime, they NEED to give those bumpers out free to everyone who bought an iPhone4.
Obvious flaw in Apple's logic: If any mobile phone has reception issues when held wrong, why are some reporting that their iP4 doesn't suffer from this!?
I've honestly never heard of this, and I've been using a cell phone of some kind for about 10 years now.
If you hold the phone properly, with on finger on each piece of glass, you will not have any problems.
If you want to hold the phone like a normal phone, just wear a glove. Problem solved.
Maybe for Michael Jackson
What a blunder!
When I was an art director, I often had to keep designers in check. They fall so in love with their beautiful designs they forget about function.
If you can't hold the phone any way you wish, then it is a bad design. It might be a shocker to some in Cupertino, but this is not a museum piece.
That's exactly how i feel about the NEW iPod Shuffle. Give me some damn buttons already!
This is a "non issue". We know that for certain.
... and the Apple haters are working overtime to make this an issue.
Let's wait a month to see if this dies away or if it stays real.
After 2 million phones are sold we should be able to find out if it's an issue or a non-issue.
I used to think all these posts were sarcasm, now I'm not so sure. Are you high?
No, he (Stevie) is tekstud.
Wow, you really have become a '... censored...' these days.
As long as we're all honest.
This is turning into a very ugly product introduction and it really exposes a fundamental flaw at Apple concerning real-world testing... they simply don't know how to do it!
They did except that there security is so tight that every phone that left the compound was wrapped in a disguise, a case that kept this from happening, oooops.
Why are you taking his bait?
Yeah, you're right. I don't know.
In a matter of weeks millions of iPhone 4' users will be able to report in ... already there are a hell of a lot of them ... so if it is as bad is the trolls want you all to think it is we will see them all being returned. I wonder how many have been returned far?
I am sure Apple may tweak the design slightly, or mod the OS but given this is a common fact for all mobile phones only a troll would be trying to persuade people not to buy iPhones because of this.
The sky is not falling folk,s no matter how much Scotland or whatever his name is wants you to think it is.
You title your post "common sense..."!? What is wrong with you???
but given this is a common fact for all mobile phones
This part made me laugh at first, but then I sighed in pity. This is the epitome of "Letting Steve Jobs think for me" syndrome.
Here's a shocker: This IS NOT a common fact for all mobile phones. If a few weeks ago I told you this, you would have debated me up and down that I'm wrong, and that your iphone doesn't suffer from it because it's not a POS. Now that Jobs has said it, there's no questioning it.
absolutely incredible.
No, he (Stevie) is tekstud.
Oh, that makes sense.
They did except that there security is so tight that every phone that left the compound was wrapped in a disguise, a case that kept this from happening, oooops.
You can't write this stuff.
They aren't admitting their mistake because they didn't make one. All cell phones have potential issues with how you hold them.
Yes they did, more to follow.
And the fact that there's not 100% reports of this 'mistake' shows that it's not all about the design. Some of it could be user error. Some of it could also just be shitty ATT coverage in the area. In fact several of the folks that I saw making reports of this 'major design flaw' admitted that they 'have never had great ATT service in the area'. Well geez Beav could that be the issue and not the phone at all. perhaps.
100% of the people do not have the same type of hand, are not all right handed ect...... User Error, sorry how dare you hold your phone in your hand that is not what is meant to do. Just because it is not 100% does not make it a non-issue, ask Toyota.
Apple can not be responsible for those that put a hand right over the antennas, after they told folks that that's what the band is. they can't be responsible for those that drop or lose their phones or get them wet etc. No more than any other company. If this was an Android, Rim etc we wouldn't be hearing about it. Because it's Apple all 'flaws' are suddenly a huge thing.
God forbid someone might want to actually hold their cell phone they way it was meant to be held. Maybe Apple should have made a phone that a user can not put a hand right over the antenna but they didn't, the screwed up.
Perhaps the mistake they need to correct is this media obsession with painting them as perfect so then folks will stop with the expectations.
Perhaps Stevie needs to man up for once and admit a mistake, oh he doesnt have to because all the fanbois will forgive him regardless and keep shelling out money to him.
First of all, i have to say i'm glad Apple has come out and admitted there is an issue with the signal when you hold it certain ways. It's always nice to hear it from the horse's proverbial mouth.
Second, I can't say i'm too suprised by the response from Apple as well. Blame it on the technology why don't you?
For a company that prides itself to provide the most innovative user-freindly products that work every time you use it without problems, to provide products that are well designed, built and perform to the highest level of self scrutany, and for a company headed by a man that nit-picks every minor detail about a device and places the fear of god into it's designers and engineers to perfect it, i'm a little dissapointed by the excuses and solutions brough forth today.
Even Apple can't override the laws of physics.
Let's get it straight. There are TWO different iPhone 4 issues and Apple has commented on them separately:
1. The signal loss when the antenna is covered. This happens on every cell phone ever made and is controlled by the laws of physics. They could increase cell phone power to compensate, but the FCC wouldn't allow it (not to mention that then all the complainers would be talking about Apple's phones emitting too much radiation). For this issue, Apple's statement was that it's limited by physics and they can't do anything about that - so if it bothers you, you'll have to change the way you hold it. The same would be true of any other phone on the planet (yes, I know that some of you have never had problems with other phones, but some people never have problems with the new iPhone, either. Some people HAVE had problems with all types of phones).
2. A completely unrelated issue, apparently related to touching the antenna at or near where the two antennae approach each other. Probably due to a capacitance issue. Apple acknowledged this one, too, and told Mossberg that there will be a software fix. Many people (including myself) see the number of bars drop when touching the phone there, but signal quality (as measured by Speedtest) doesn't change. There are reports of dropped calls, but it's not yet clear that this is anything more than AT&T's behavior with heavy traffic.
#1 can't be fixed.
#2 is design related and needs to be fixed. Apple says software will fix it. Let's give them the chance to prove it before going on any campaigns.
IF the software patch doesn't fix #2, then Apple will need to do some design work. First priority would be to figure out what the problem is and then fix it so they don't produce 30 M bad phones. Then, the should repair or replace phones that are already in the wild. It's that simple.
If they wish, they might also offer a choice of a free bumper or a full refund, as well.
Apple has a history of high quality products and addressing problems when they come up. There's no reason to think this will be any different - but expecting Apple to violate the laws of physics is just unreasonable.