Apple should just start giving away those ugly bumper covers as a workaround for this problem. $29 is way, way too expensive. They can't cost them more than a buck or two in make. Of course, they do ruin the look of the phone.
And the 1st time you drop the phone with one on, you will MAYBE be glad it was on there.
I tried to buy one when I picked up my phone yesterday, but shock, Apple ran out of them.
It sure seems like Apple need to do something to address this, it sure looks like it may be a problem that goes beyond what happens with other phones. Hopefully it's something they can address with a hardware update, but in the meantime I wonder if the easiest solution would be to give all iPhone buyers a free bumper?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan
Apple's quote is included in the article. How did you miss it?
It is not a stretch to take what Apple effectively said, don't hold it that way, and say that you're holding it "wrong" if you do.
Considering that you agree that Apple didn't say that and that the headline changed the wording, it sure looks like I didn't miss it. Thanks for confirming that.
I guess you think it's OK to write headlines that mislead about what was actually said. I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh
A Motorola Droid is not an HTC Nexus, but just for you and for greater effect...
Funny, I didn't say that the droid and nexus are the same. I said that they need to make sure the droid doesn't have less signal while held if they wanted to run an ad like that. Have you tested this with a droid? Has someone online done it and posted the results? And for all droid models including the new upcoming one? I'm not saying it has the issue, I'm just asking if they have been checked to see if they do or don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Apparently the issue isn't as defective design flaw that will cause require all iPhone 4's to be recalled. What will the Chicken Littles do now?
Funny, the article you quoted doesn't really say that. And saying they won't have to recall ALL phones (just some?) isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?
If your index finger is touching the upper antenna, and your pinky or another finger is touching the lower antenna, you've created the short. You don't have to put a finger right on the joint.
Not on my phone. If I place my finger right over the joint, I see a drop from 4-5 bars to 1-2 bars. If I do what you're suggesting - holding the phone from the sides and placing my pinky onto the bottom, there is no drop.
This isn't surprising - the change in capacitance and conductivity must be at least an order of magnitude different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
None of that indicates that it's going to be a problem for any given user.
I am able to demonstrate the problem 100% of the time by touching the joint. OTOH, when I'm holding my phone normally in my left hand to make a call, my hand is nowhere near that joint. Look at most of the videos. It would be nearly impossible to make a call with your hand in the position of these videos.
I'm not saying that it shouldn't be fixed (and I already offered my suggestions on what Apple should do). I am saying that a large number of users may never see a problem (and that is consistent with reports that many people aren't seeing problems).
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
I *think* the whole chicken little thing was basically trying to say that even if there are 100 separate documented cases of the exact problem - consider that there are supposed to be something like 1.5 million iPhone 4 units being sold in the first few days - meaning that 100 instances is a tiny fraction - even if we assume that only 1 in 10 people with the problem have been able to report it on the web in any manner that is still only 1000 out of 1.5 million - even if it is 10,000 or 100,000 or even all of the initial shipment - it is still a possibility that it is a manufacturing defect such as a wire or screw or connector or insulator etc that is not properly installed - while I suppose it is possible - it seems unlikely to me that it is a software issue.
So while I do not agree with name calling in any case - for anyone to claim that the entire iPhone 4 design is flawed because there is some unknown number of instances of reports of a problem - could be related the Chicken Little - the Sky is Falling - mentality - which simply means that a mis-understood problem is being blown way out of proportion to what is really going on.
Which is not to suggest that i have any data which indicates that it is NOT a design flaw (hardware or software) - and also not to suggest that Apple and any consumer should NOT take this issue seriously - just that more information (or perspective) or real data - and even root cause analysis is needed before anyone can say whether it is a design flaw.
Apple's response that it is normal with any phone - don't hold it that way - does seem very rude to me - sort of like telling a doctor that it hurts when I do this (demonstrate physical action) and the doctor telling you "don't do that"
When we as consumers spend our hard earned (and heavily taxed) income on a product - we have a reasonable expectation that it should be free of defects and work as advertised.
... I am able to demonstrate the problem 100% of the time by touching the joint. OTOH, when I'm holding my phone normally in my left hand to make a call, my hand is nowhere near that joint. Look at most of the videos. It would be nearly impossible to make a call with your hand in the position of these videos. ...
What about when you are using the phone as computer, perhaps while on a call?
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Well, first let me say this is in fact a design flaw. I think what they should so is make the bottom portion mirror the top portion and then you'd have connection between the two at the bottom instead of the sides where people are likely to bridge the gap.
With all that said tho I've tried holding my phone to make a call and it just feels really unnatural. Since iPhone launch day one I've gripped it with my fingers when holding it to my ear, occasionally the bottom corner hits against my thumb but I never actually palm it while talking to someone. Well, unless I'm using the headset or surfing the web So, yeah, it's still a problem but one that I personally never run into.
When I stand on my head and balance the phone on the bottom of my feet, it will do it though!
I dont get it either, are we the only people on the planet without this problem...you'd think it was everyone, but I can hold my phone the "wrong way" and see no bar drop off...maybe it depends on what cell band the phone is locked onto?
Apple should just start giving away those ugly bumper covers as a workaround for this problem. $29 is way, way too expensive. They can't cost them more than a buck or two in make. Of course, they do ruin the look of the phone.
If not free, bumpers should be 10% over costs (manuf./packaging/shipping,etc)... I say this because of Apple's official response -- which is, essentially: Users lose signal if you "hold" your phone wrong.
Strip away everything else about their statement... This worries me. So, if 1.5 million iPhone4's have been sold so far; every 1% equals 15,000 iPhone4's.
Could the horrid publicity of the 1, 2 or 3% negate the awe of the 97%?
Please tell me I'm exaggerating. It will make me feel better.
I dont get it either, are we the only people on the planet without this problem...you'd think it was everyone, but I can hold my phone the "wrong way" and see no bar drop off...maybe it depends on what cell band the phone is locked onto?
If you are in an area with a strong signal, it won't happen.
I am saying that a large number of users may never see a problem (and that is consistent with reports that many people aren't seeing problems).
Holding the phone naturally, the problem arises routinely and to the max when running Speedtest. The program simply doesn't work until the antenna gap is released. The program stops working in the middle of testing just as soon as the gap is touched and bars go from 5 to 0 in just a few seconds.
I hate to think how many calls will be dropped because of this. Important calls.
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Sent from my lefthand-held iPhone 4 with 5 bars.
Have you let someone else hold your phone in the manner that causes others to fail? Or shorted it with foil gum wrapper or some such? It would be interesting to see if hand dampness and dead skin cell thickness plays a role.
Have you let someone else hold your phone in the manner that causes others to fail? Or shorted it with foil gum wrapper or some such? It would be interesting to see if hand dampness and dead skin cell thickness plays a role.
They really should just make the bottom portion dead and call it a day - that would fix all of this no matter how you hold it and no matter what batch of product you got.
Every video of older Apple phones doing this require a lot of hand crowding. The iPhone 4 just requires regular holding, even touching with 1 finger in the wrong spot does it. Not so with any older iPhone.
Considering that you agree that Apple didn't say that and that the headline changed the wording, it sure looks like I didn't miss it. Thanks for confirming that.
I guess you think it's OK to write headlines that mislead about what was actually said. I disagree.
It wasn't misleading. The word "wrong" wasn't used by Apple. Headlines always try to boil the point of the article to a susinct few words. Paraphrasing is often used and is acceptable.
Example: Clinton says he did not relations with that woman. The headline reads "Clinton says he did not have sex with Lewinski." That headline is no more misleading than the one we are discussing. Both parahrased and did not change the meaning of what was actually said.
I almost always agree with Steve, but this time I couldn't disagree more. Why wasn't this an issue with the other 3 iPhones? Because it wasn't an issue with the other 3 iPhones.
You can't teach the world how to hold a phone a particular way. Even worse, this problem affects the most comfortable position to hold the phone in. I lose the entire signal just by having my pinky finger anywhere near that corner.
Steve says all phones lose their signal when held wrong. BS. My old Samsung does not care where I hold it. I never lose my signal in regards to where I hold my phone. Of course, I am on another network. Fix the problem and add more carriers Steve!!!!!!!
The last 3 phones I've owned (all non-apple, and all non-smart) have included specific verbage in the manual on how to hold the phone in relation to the antenna, and one even had a sticker on it essentially saying "don't touch here". Its too bad Apple is getting so much negative press about it.
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Sent from my lefthand-held iPhone 4 with 5 bars.
Many reports seem to indicate that the issue occurs in poor reception areas and is not evidenced where there is a strong signal.
Comments
Apple should just start giving away those ugly bumper covers as a workaround for this problem. $29 is way, way too expensive. They can't cost them more than a buck or two in make. Of course, they do ruin the look of the phone.
And the 1st time you drop the phone with one on, you will MAYBE be glad it was on there.
I tried to buy one when I picked up my phone yesterday, but shock, Apple ran out of them.
Apple's quote is included in the article. How did you miss it?
It is not a stretch to take what Apple effectively said, don't hold it that way, and say that you're holding it "wrong" if you do.
Considering that you agree that Apple didn't say that and that the headline changed the wording, it sure looks like I didn't miss it. Thanks for confirming that.
I guess you think it's OK to write headlines that mislead about what was actually said. I disagree.
A Motorola Droid is not an HTC Nexus, but just for you and for greater effect...
Funny, I didn't say that the droid and nexus are the same. I said that they need to make sure the droid doesn't have less signal while held if they wanted to run an ad like that. Have you tested this with a droid? Has someone online done it and posted the results? And for all droid models including the new upcoming one? I'm not saying it has the issue, I'm just asking if they have been checked to see if they do or don't.
Apparently the issue isn't as defective design flaw that will cause require all iPhone 4's to be recalled. What will the Chicken Littles do now?
Funny, the article you quoted doesn't really say that. And saying they won't have to recall ALL phones (just some?) isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?
i saw this at engadget and it gave me a chuckle:
Jobs actually demonstrates how you should hold the iPhone (also from engadget)
No this won't do it.
If your index finger is touching the upper antenna, and your pinky or another finger is touching the lower antenna, you've created the short. You don't have to put a finger right on the joint.
Not on my phone. If I place my finger right over the joint, I see a drop from 4-5 bars to 1-2 bars. If I do what you're suggesting - holding the phone from the sides and placing my pinky onto the bottom, there is no drop.
This isn't surprising - the change in capacitance and conductivity must be at least an order of magnitude different.
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
None of that indicates that it's going to be a problem for any given user.
I am able to demonstrate the problem 100% of the time by touching the joint. OTOH, when I'm holding my phone normally in my left hand to make a call, my hand is nowhere near that joint. Look at most of the videos. It would be nearly impossible to make a call with your hand in the position of these videos.
I'm not saying that it shouldn't be fixed (and I already offered my suggestions on what Apple should do). I am saying that a large number of users may never see a problem (and that is consistent with reports that many people aren't seeing problems).
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
I *think* the whole chicken little thing was basically trying to say that even if there are 100 separate documented cases of the exact problem - consider that there are supposed to be something like 1.5 million iPhone 4 units being sold in the first few days - meaning that 100 instances is a tiny fraction - even if we assume that only 1 in 10 people with the problem have been able to report it on the web in any manner that is still only 1000 out of 1.5 million - even if it is 10,000 or 100,000 or even all of the initial shipment - it is still a possibility that it is a manufacturing defect such as a wire or screw or connector or insulator etc that is not properly installed - while I suppose it is possible - it seems unlikely to me that it is a software issue.
So while I do not agree with name calling in any case - for anyone to claim that the entire iPhone 4 design is flawed because there is some unknown number of instances of reports of a problem - could be related the Chicken Little - the Sky is Falling - mentality - which simply means that a mis-understood problem is being blown way out of proportion to what is really going on.
Which is not to suggest that i have any data which indicates that it is NOT a design flaw (hardware or software) - and also not to suggest that Apple and any consumer should NOT take this issue seriously - just that more information (or perspective) or real data - and even root cause analysis is needed before anyone can say whether it is a design flaw.
Apple's response that it is normal with any phone - don't hold it that way - does seem very rude to me - sort of like telling a doctor that it hurts when I do this (demonstrate physical action) and the doctor telling you "don't do that"
When we as consumers spend our hard earned (and heavily taxed) income on a product - we have a reasonable expectation that it should be free of defects and work as advertised.
... I am able to demonstrate the problem 100% of the time by touching the joint. OTOH, when I'm holding my phone normally in my left hand to make a call, my hand is nowhere near that joint. Look at most of the videos. It would be nearly impossible to make a call with your hand in the position of these videos. ...
What about when you are using the phone as computer, perhaps while on a call?
None of this refutes the plethora of videos out there of iPhone 4 dropping service by the simple act of being held, not to mention the ones showing the iPhone 4 losing service while laying flat on a surface and being touched at the antenna gap. I would rather believe that there is less of a bias in the videos over these talking blogheads and Apple apologists.
Where are the videos of any other phone going from 5 bars to no service in 20 seconds simply because they are picked up and held?
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Sent from my lefthand-held iPhone 4 with 5 bars.
With all that said tho I've tried holding my phone to make a call and it just feels really unnatural. Since iPhone launch day one I've gripped it with my fingers when holding it to my ear, occasionally the bottom corner hits against my thumb but I never actually palm it while talking to someone. Well, unless I'm using the headset or surfing the web
I can't get mine to do it.
I must be retarded.
When I stand on my head and balance the phone on the bottom of my feet, it will do it though!
I dont get it either, are we the only people on the planet without this problem...you'd think it was everyone, but I can hold my phone the "wrong way" and see no bar drop off...maybe it depends on what cell band the phone is locked onto?
Apple should just start giving away those ugly bumper covers as a workaround for this problem. $29 is way, way too expensive. They can't cost them more than a buck or two in make. Of course, they do ruin the look of the phone.
If not free, bumpers should be 10% over costs (manuf./packaging/shipping,etc)... I say this because of Apple's official response -- which is, essentially: Users lose signal if you "hold" your phone wrong.
Strip away everything else about their statement... This worries me. So, if 1.5 million iPhone4's have been sold so far; every 1% equals 15,000 iPhone4's.
Could the horrid publicity of the 1, 2 or 3% negate the awe of the 97%?
Please tell me I'm exaggerating. It will make me feel better.
I dont get it either, are we the only people on the planet without this problem...you'd think it was everyone, but I can hold my phone the "wrong way" and see no bar drop off...maybe it depends on what cell band the phone is locked onto?
If you are in an area with a strong signal, it won't happen.
I am saying that a large number of users may never see a problem (and that is consistent with reports that many people aren't seeing problems).
Holding the phone naturally, the problem arises routinely and to the max when running Speedtest. The program simply doesn't work until the antenna gap is released. The program stops working in the middle of testing just as soon as the gap is touched and bars go from 5 to 0 in just a few seconds.
I hate to think how many calls will be dropped because of this. Important calls.
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Sent from my lefthand-held iPhone 4 with 5 bars.
Have you let someone else hold your phone in the manner that causes others to fail? Or shorted it with foil gum wrapper or some such? It would be interesting to see if hand dampness and dead skin cell thickness plays a role.
Have you let someone else hold your phone in the manner that causes others to fail? Or shorted it with foil gum wrapper or some such? It would be interesting to see if hand dampness and dead skin cell thickness plays a role.
They really should just make the bottom portion dead and call it a day - that would fix all of this no matter how you hold it and no matter what batch of product you got.
I'd post a video, but I'm too lazy.
Every video of older Apple phones doing this require a lot of hand crowding. The iPhone 4 just requires regular holding, even touching with 1 finger in the wrong spot does it. Not so with any older iPhone.
Considering that you agree that Apple didn't say that and that the headline changed the wording, it sure looks like I didn't miss it. Thanks for confirming that.
I guess you think it's OK to write headlines that mislead about what was actually said. I disagree.
It wasn't misleading. The word "wrong" wasn't used by Apple. Headlines always try to boil the point of the article to a susinct few words. Paraphrasing is often used and is acceptable.
Example: Clinton says he did not relations with that woman. The headline reads "Clinton says he did not have sex with Lewinski." That headline is no more misleading than the one we are discussing. Both parahrased and did not change the meaning of what was actually said.
I almost always agree with Steve, but this time I couldn't disagree more. Why wasn't this an issue with the other 3 iPhones? Because it wasn't an issue with the other 3 iPhones.
You can't teach the world how to hold a phone a particular way. Even worse, this problem affects the most comfortable position to hold the phone in. I lose the entire signal just by having my pinky finger anywhere near that corner.
I know, it's a joke.
It's not suppose to. There are issues with all CE. There will be bad batches. There will be replacements for bad devices. I've even stated I know someone who received a DOA iPhone 4.
My post refutes, deconstructs and utterly destroys the chicken little trolls claiming this is a "design flaw" affecting ALL iPhone 4s.
Sent from my lefthand-held iPhone 4 with 5 bars.
Many reports seem to indicate that the issue occurs in poor reception areas and is not evidenced where there is a strong signal.