So basically, Apple is saying there is no problem with the antena, the only issue is you thought you were getting better reception thatn you were?
Even more BS that they say they've always calculated things this way. This means people should not be seeing any worse problems with the 4 than the earlier 3. Evidence does not bear this out.
This makes no sense. People's calls are dropping and data speed is much slower when portions of the antenna and touched and/or bridged. Apple's solution is to show you that you have less signal all the time?
I know all phones lose some signal when the antenna is covered, but APPLE'S IS THE ONLY EXTERNAL ANTENNA TOTALLY EXPOSED TO SKIN ETC.
If this indeed Apple's solution, ie. screw you, then I suspect they'll get a lot of phones back. When mine comes, if I have this issue I will take the opportunity to return it and go Android (not what I want to do). Apple is still in denial there there is a problem.
I'm with you. I don't see how this, in any way, addresses the issues. I don't own an iPhone 4 (I'm waiting for the problems to be fixed). But I went to an AT&T store yesterday and could reliably reproduce the problem without "tightly gripping" it. I only needed to bridge the two antennae with one finger. That was enough to drop to no signal after a few seconds. I could make it happen faster if I cupped it in my hand.
The only thing I can think of is that there is actually a fix in this release, but that Apple can't state so publicly because if they did that would be admitting guilt and wouldn't be good for the pending litigation. But mostly this is a just a BS response that doesn't do anything to fix the issue.
Hey digitalclips, read this and try to understand it: when I hold my iPhone 4 in my left hand, after ten seconds the signal display drops from 5 bars to "No Service" AND I completely lose signal. No voice, no data, nada. When I hold my iPhone 3G or my wife's original iPhone in the same manner, I drop at most 1 bar, and I can continue to use either phone normally. I've done this test a number of times now, in different locations. So can you please stop with the "all phones do that" lie. It's verifiably not true! Repeating it ad nauseum is not going to make it any truer.
Hopefully this will put an end to the poor reception story so the iPhone naysayers can move on to other complaints. Of course I am assuming the Apple letter is real and not another fake. I will keep an open mind until I see something official at Apple.com.
There must be a lot of sad lawyers this morning. Whoosh...hey, there's another ambulance,,,let's go!
I've noticed that the bars sometimes seem to be showing more bars than I would expect however the simple fact still remains that I can download 3G radio streams with no issues and then lightly hold the phone in my left hand and drop out of 3G to to the slower network and then get no service all within 10 seconds or so. And Apple thinks that normal!
Are you saying that lightly holding your iPhone in my left hand you can bypass the General Settings and automatically switch from 3G to EDGE no matter how good the wireless service is? I wouldn't think that Apple or anybody else would.
But what I do know for sure, is that Apple thinks it is normal that,
Quote:
?you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.
Hey digitalclips, read this and try to understand it: when I hold my iPhone 4 in my left hand, after ten seconds the signal display drops from 5 bars to "No Service" AND I completely lose signal. No voice, no data, nada. When I hold my iPhone 3G or my wife's original iPhone in the same manner, I drop at most 1 bar, and I can continue to use either phone normally. I've done this test a number of times now, in different locations. So can you please stop with the "all phones do that" lie. It's verifiably not true! Repeating it ad nauseum is not going to make it any truer.
As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.
"As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund."
So there you go. Shut up or take it back.
Yeah, a full refund IF you bought your phone from Apple. Buy it from an AT&T store, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. and you're stuck with restocking fees. And unless you return it in 3 days you also get stuck with ETF's from AT&T unless you get a different phone for the 2 year contract you signed with them.
Are you saying that lightly holding your iPhone in my left hand you can bypass the General Settings and automatically switch from 3G to EDGE no matter how good the wireless service is? I wouldn't think that Apple or anybody else would.
I really don't know what your talking about. The phone everywhere I've been so far will drop out of 3G just by holding it normally in my left hand then go to the slower network and often drop out of that network too. That's fact, and it happens all the time. I will buy a case which I know will help so the problems, fortunately aren't going to be so bad, but that's what happens without one.
Indeed. It also seems that people are missing the part of the letter where it states that this "mistake" in reporting the bars as stronger than they are, has been going on since the first iPhone came out. In other words the iPhone has always reported it's bars this way, and only with the new physical hardware design has it turned out to be a problem. This is tantamount to confirmation from Apple that the iPhone 4 actually has a hardware/design problem.
Agreed. I think the exposed antennas result in a more pronounced drop in signal than on earlier versions. This is enough to get the the bars display algorithm to drop to the next level (or two or more, as the lower bars have smaller range). So, while the 3G/3GS may have used the same algorithm, the drop is signal was less and so reflected less of a loss. Of course, the antenna on the 4 is also much better, so it might have enough signal to show 5 bars, where the 3G/3GS might show 3 or 4. Again, with the exposed antennas resulting in an actually greater signal drop on the 4, it creates the perception of less signal. But, with the better antenna, even if the signal is less than on the 3G/3GS, the call quality is reported to be better.
I give credit to Apple for admitting the fault in their algorithm. But it seems like admitting to the lesser of two problems in order to distract from the larger issue.
This is very sad. How embarrassing for those insisting that Apple would fix it.
This fixes nothing, can't folks read?
This doesn't address, not even admit the problem.
Changing the pretty picture of the number of bars has nothing to do with reception.
Lowering the number of bars will make even Apple lovers decide that the iPhone doesn't have such great reception after all.
Try thinking of an analogy ... if your car was telling you you had 100 more miles to go on a tank before you needed gas and you kept running out would you feel the car had a problem or the reading? When the manufacturer fixed it showing you now get 100 miles less from a tank full would you feel you had a bad car now?
So, Apple has also admitted that every iPhone (Original, 3G, 3GS, 4) has displayed exagerrated signal strengths. I wonder if this was intentional to cover the inadequate antenna strength in these "thinnist of all cell phones".
I'm sure there will be plenty of people who will complain about this too!
Of course. There is a fairly large contingent who complains about EVERYTHING Apple does. If Apple said that they'd replace your iPHone with a diamond encrusted platinum model with 10 times the reception if you simply send a check for $9.95 to cover shipping and handling, the trolls would be complaining that Apple is discriminating against people without checking accounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homie
Lighten up Francis.
It is ok to love a phone and still be dissatisfied with a portion of it's performance. It is fair to complain.
But that's the problem. There IS no performance problem. It's a perception problem. Apple's tests (confirmed by Anand) indicate that the iPhone's receptions is excellent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
It's good to have confirmation from Apple, but it isn't like this isn't exactly what Anand reported. The algorithm for the bars display is weighed to show a better signal than actually existed. The first problem of holding it resulting in the dropping of the number of bars being displayed is mainly a visualization problem..while there is a signal drop, it is not as pronounced as the display indicates.
But as Anand also stated, it doesn't change the fact that the actual amount of signal loss is still a problem.:
"The drop in signal from holding the phone with your left hand arguably remains a problem. Changing the bars visualization may indeed help mask it, and to be fair the phone works fine all the way down to -113 dBm, but it will persist - software updates can change physics as much as they can change hardware design. At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."
At the end of the day, Anand confirmed what Apple said - that the iPhone's reception was better than other phones. Yes, you might be able to improve it a little more by adding a case if you wish, but even without the case, it's well above industry standards. So what's the complaint?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac
Wow. A software fix for a situation that half the community here said didn't even exist. And I thought you guys knew everything!
Absolutely wrong. Almost all of the people defending Apple said that the dropping bars problem existed but that it didn't affect phone calls. That's exactly what Apple just reported - and which Anand confirmed.
Please stop making things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmsolem
Nice to have Apple admit an error and a fix, and even a letter!
Now how about;
- The proximity sensor problem on the iPhone. I get this all of the time. My ear dials while I try to talk.
- The repeated wifi password prompting on the iPad.
Proximity sensor is apparently an isolated problem. If enough people have problems, they'll address it.
Password prompting is a router problem. Fix your router.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic
They are not admitting the underlying problem. They are attempting to cover it up. This will put them right back on CNN.
They're reporting that their tests indicate that there IS no underlying problem - and the inability of anyone to demonstrate an increased number of dropped calls confirms that.
But as Anand also stated, it doesn't change the fact that the actual amount of signal loss is still a problem. ..."
Nop, the measurement was calibrated with the bars shown on the iPhone4. The problem is that according to Apple (and I'am sure they are sure) the bars shown where wrong. And there goes your calibration.
Maybe someone should sue Anand for such 'ignorant' measurements and presenting results that are wrong. They should have used the actual signal strength shown in db's on the iPhone but that wasn't possible in the short time frame.
Excellent work of Apple to find the cause of the problem this fast, between a bombardment of confusing and conflicting information. This is really difficult to do.
So, Apple has also admitted that every iPhone (Original, 3G, 3GS, 4) has displayed exagerrated signal strengths. I wonder if this was intentional to cover the inadequate antenna strength in these "thinnist of all cell phones".
What inadequate signal strength are you referring to? Anand's tests (and Apple's tests, although you'll probably ignore those) show that the iPHone 4 has GREATER sensitivity than other phones, not less.
A software fix to only change the display behavior is a fail.
It does not fix the REAL PROBLEM of DROPPED SIGNAL!
I can reproduce the issue 100% of the time with my phone and it is truly insulting for Apple to refuse to accept this fact even after multiple independent studies.
Even though this isn't the answer that some were hoping for, it is a good first step, and here's why:
After Apple issues this software fix to make the phone accurately report bars or whatever, then either one of two things will happen...
1. This solves all current reception related issues and everyone is happy except trolls and haters.
or
2. It only fixes the cosmetic reporting of signal strength, which makes it more accurate, but does not resolve the actual dropped call issues.
If #2 above is the outcome, then at that point if dropped calls and other actual reception issues are still happening, then they won't be able to blame anything on the software incorrectly reporting the signal strength. They will then have to address it from the point of view of dropped calls and go from there. I know this isn't anyone's first choice, and it's not a speedy solution, but if there is more going on here, then it will force the issue.
I find it difficult to believe that a thirty year old computer company responsible for several revolutions in personal computing capable of engineering a state-of-the art network-integrated web browsing, media playing device somehow neglected to check the accuracy of the signal strength formula.
Come on...this doesn't even make sense. This is an egregious error in the most basic functionality of a device that comes from a company so perfectionistic that people were debunking the first authentic pictures of the device because of asthetically unpleasing, millimeter-wide breaks in the side of the case.
AT&T and Apple have been barraged with reception/call quality/signal dropout issues since the release of the first iPhone. I think that one of the first areas to be assessed, and one that would be given _extra_ attention prior to the release of the iPhone 4, would have been whether or not the phone reports signal accurately.
There's a larger issue behind this...
+1
I also thought the letter read strangely and immediately though "stunned" was a poor/uncharacteristic choice coming from Apple.
As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.
Apple won't replace ip4's with this issue. Luckily Vodafone will though, so when they get new stock in I'll have a new one to try out. Because I went to them within the 7 day timeframe for ending your contract with no fees, they have also said that if that ip4 has the same issues I can still drop out of my contract as if I was still in the 7 day window. I will keep the phone though even if it has the same issues because it's otherwise a fantastic device.
Comments
So basically, Apple is saying there is no problem with the antena, the only issue is you thought you were getting better reception thatn you were?
Even more BS that they say they've always calculated things this way. This means people should not be seeing any worse problems with the 4 than the earlier 3. Evidence does not bear this out.
This makes no sense. People's calls are dropping and data speed is much slower when portions of the antenna and touched and/or bridged. Apple's solution is to show you that you have less signal all the time?
I know all phones lose some signal when the antenna is covered, but APPLE'S IS THE ONLY EXTERNAL ANTENNA TOTALLY EXPOSED TO SKIN ETC.
If this indeed Apple's solution, ie. screw you, then I suspect they'll get a lot of phones back. When mine comes, if I have this issue I will take the opportunity to return it and go Android (not what I want to do). Apple is still in denial there there is a problem.
I'm with you. I don't see how this, in any way, addresses the issues. I don't own an iPhone 4 (I'm waiting for the problems to be fixed). But I went to an AT&T store yesterday and could reliably reproduce the problem without "tightly gripping" it. I only needed to bridge the two antennae with one finger. That was enough to drop to no signal after a few seconds. I could make it happen faster if I cupped it in my hand.
The only thing I can think of is that there is actually a fix in this release, but that Apple can't state so publicly because if they did that would be admitting guilt and wouldn't be good for the pending litigation. But mostly this is a just a BS response that doesn't do anything to fix the issue.
This fixes nothing, can't folks read?
This doesn't address, not even admit the problem.
Changing the pretty picture of the number of bars has nothing to do with reception.
Lowering the number of bars will make even Apple lovers decide that the iPhone doesn't have such great reception after all.
There must be a lot of sad lawyers this morning. Whoosh...hey, there's another ambulance,,,let's go!
I've noticed that the bars sometimes seem to be showing more bars than I would expect however the simple fact still remains that I can download 3G radio streams with no issues and then lightly hold the phone in my left hand and drop out of 3G to to the slower network and then get no service all within 10 seconds or so. And Apple thinks that normal!
Are you saying that lightly holding your iPhone in my left hand you can bypass the General Settings and automatically switch from 3G to EDGE no matter how good the wireless service is? I wouldn't think that Apple or anybody else would.
But what I do know for sure, is that Apple thinks it is normal that,
Hey digitalclips, read this and try to understand it: when I hold my iPhone 4 in my left hand, after ten seconds the signal display drops from 5 bars to "No Service" AND I completely lose signal. No voice, no data, nada. When I hold my iPhone 3G or my wife's original iPhone in the same manner, I drop at most 1 bar, and I can continue to use either phone normally. I've done this test a number of times now, in different locations. So can you please stop with the "all phones do that" lie. It's verifiably not true! Repeating it ad nauseum is not going to make it any truer.
As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.
"As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund."
So there you go. Shut up or take it back.
Yeah, a full refund IF you bought your phone from Apple. Buy it from an AT&T store, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. and you're stuck with restocking fees. And unless you return it in 3 days you also get stuck with ETF's from AT&T unless you get a different phone for the 2 year contract you signed with them.
Are you saying that lightly holding your iPhone in my left hand you can bypass the General Settings and automatically switch from 3G to EDGE no matter how good the wireless service is? I wouldn't think that Apple or anybody else would.
I really don't know what your talking about. The phone everywhere I've been so far will drop out of 3G just by holding it normally in my left hand then go to the slower network and often drop out of that network too. That's fact, and it happens all the time. I will buy a case which I know will help so the problems, fortunately aren't going to be so bad, but that's what happens without one.
26 years ago, Apple threw the hammer at Big Brother.
Now, Apple is Big Brother.
2 + 2 = 5
They are not admitting the underlying problem. They are attempting to cover it up. This will put them right back on CNN.
How about we wait and see what happens until after the update has been released.
Indeed. It also seems that people are missing the part of the letter where it states that this "mistake" in reporting the bars as stronger than they are, has been going on since the first iPhone came out. In other words the iPhone has always reported it's bars this way, and only with the new physical hardware design has it turned out to be a problem. This is tantamount to confirmation from Apple that the iPhone 4 actually has a hardware/design problem.
Agreed. I think the exposed antennas result in a more pronounced drop in signal than on earlier versions. This is enough to get the the bars display algorithm to drop to the next level (or two or more, as the lower bars have smaller range). So, while the 3G/3GS may have used the same algorithm, the drop is signal was less and so reflected less of a loss. Of course, the antenna on the 4 is also much better, so it might have enough signal to show 5 bars, where the 3G/3GS might show 3 or 4. Again, with the exposed antennas resulting in an actually greater signal drop on the 4, it creates the perception of less signal. But, with the better antenna, even if the signal is less than on the 3G/3GS, the call quality is reported to be better.
I give credit to Apple for admitting the fault in their algorithm. But it seems like admitting to the lesser of two problems in order to distract from the larger issue.
This is very sad. How embarrassing for those insisting that Apple would fix it.
This fixes nothing, can't folks read?
This doesn't address, not even admit the problem.
Changing the pretty picture of the number of bars has nothing to do with reception.
Lowering the number of bars will make even Apple lovers decide that the iPhone doesn't have such great reception after all.
Try thinking of an analogy ... if your car was telling you you had 100 more miles to go on a tank before you needed gas and you kept running out would you feel the car had a problem or the reading? When the manufacturer fixed it showing you now get 100 miles less from a tank full would you feel you had a bad car now?
I'm sure there will be plenty of people who will complain about this too!
Of course. There is a fairly large contingent who complains about EVERYTHING Apple does. If Apple said that they'd replace your iPHone with a diamond encrusted platinum model with 10 times the reception if you simply send a check for $9.95 to cover shipping and handling, the trolls would be complaining that Apple is discriminating against people without checking accounts.
Lighten up Francis.
It is ok to love a phone and still be dissatisfied with a portion of it's performance. It is fair to complain.
But that's the problem. There IS no performance problem. It's a perception problem. Apple's tests (confirmed by Anand) indicate that the iPhone's receptions is excellent.
It's good to have confirmation from Apple, but it isn't like this isn't exactly what Anand reported. The algorithm for the bars display is weighed to show a better signal than actually existed. The first problem of holding it resulting in the dropping of the number of bars being displayed is mainly a visualization problem..while there is a signal drop, it is not as pronounced as the display indicates.
But as Anand also stated, it doesn't change the fact that the actual amount of signal loss is still a problem.:
"The drop in signal from holding the phone with your left hand arguably remains a problem. Changing the bars visualization may indeed help mask it, and to be fair the phone works fine all the way down to -113 dBm, but it will persist - software updates can change physics as much as they can change hardware design. At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."
At the end of the day, Anand confirmed what Apple said - that the iPhone's reception was better than other phones. Yes, you might be able to improve it a little more by adding a case if you wish, but even without the case, it's well above industry standards. So what's the complaint?
Wow. A software fix for a situation that half the community here said didn't even exist. And I thought you guys knew everything!
Absolutely wrong. Almost all of the people defending Apple said that the dropping bars problem existed but that it didn't affect phone calls. That's exactly what Apple just reported - and which Anand confirmed.
Please stop making things up.
Nice to have Apple admit an error and a fix, and even a letter!
Now how about;
- The proximity sensor problem on the iPhone. I get this all of the time. My ear dials while I try to talk.
- The repeated wifi password prompting on the iPad.
Proximity sensor is apparently an isolated problem. If enough people have problems, they'll address it.
Password prompting is a router problem. Fix your router.
They are not admitting the underlying problem. They are attempting to cover it up. This will put them right back on CNN.
They're reporting that their tests indicate that there IS no underlying problem - and the inability of anyone to demonstrate an increased number of dropped calls confirms that.
This is a sad day for Apple.
26 years ago, Apple threw the hammer at Big Brother.
Now, Apple is Big Brother.
2 + 2 = 5
I really like my new big brother
But as Anand also stated, it doesn't change the fact that the actual amount of signal loss is still a problem. ..."
Nop, the measurement was calibrated with the bars shown on the iPhone4. The problem is that according to Apple (and I'am sure they are sure) the bars shown where wrong. And there goes your calibration.
Maybe someone should sue Anand for such 'ignorant' measurements and presenting results that are wrong. They should have used the actual signal strength shown in db's on the iPhone but that wasn't possible in the short time frame.
Excellent work of Apple to find the cause of the problem this fast, between a bombardment of confusing and conflicting information. This is really difficult to do.
J.
So, Apple has also admitted that every iPhone (Original, 3G, 3GS, 4) has displayed exagerrated signal strengths. I wonder if this was intentional to cover the inadequate antenna strength in these "thinnist of all cell phones".
What inadequate signal strength are you referring to? Anand's tests (and Apple's tests, although you'll probably ignore those) show that the iPHone 4 has GREATER sensitivity than other phones, not less.
A software fix to only change the display behavior is a fail.
It does not fix the REAL PROBLEM of DROPPED SIGNAL!
I can reproduce the issue 100% of the time with my phone and it is truly insulting for Apple to refuse to accept this fact even after multiple independent studies.
Even though this isn't the answer that some were hoping for, it is a good first step, and here's why:
After Apple issues this software fix to make the phone accurately report bars or whatever, then either one of two things will happen...
1. This solves all current reception related issues and everyone is happy except trolls and haters.
or
2. It only fixes the cosmetic reporting of signal strength, which makes it more accurate, but does not resolve the actual dropped call issues.
If #2 above is the outcome, then at that point if dropped calls and other actual reception issues are still happening, then they won't be able to blame anything on the software incorrectly reporting the signal strength. They will then have to address it from the point of view of dropped calls and go from there. I know this isn't anyone's first choice, and it's not a speedy solution, but if there is more going on here, then it will force the issue.
"Stunned"....really?
I find it difficult to believe that a thirty year old computer company responsible for several revolutions in personal computing capable of engineering a state-of-the art network-integrated web browsing, media playing device somehow neglected to check the accuracy of the signal strength formula.
Come on...this doesn't even make sense. This is an egregious error in the most basic functionality of a device that comes from a company so perfectionistic that people were debunking the first authentic pictures of the device because of asthetically unpleasing, millimeter-wide breaks in the side of the case.
AT&T and Apple have been barraged with reception/call quality/signal dropout issues since the release of the first iPhone. I think that one of the first areas to be assessed, and one that would be given _extra_ attention prior to the release of the iPhone 4, would have been whether or not the phone reports signal accurately.
There's a larger issue behind this...
+1
I also thought the letter read strangely and immediately though "stunned" was a poor/uncharacteristic choice coming from Apple.
As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.
Apple won't replace ip4's with this issue. Luckily Vodafone will though, so when they get new stock in I'll have a new one to try out. Because I went to them within the 7 day timeframe for ending your contract with no fees, they have also said that if that ip4 has the same issues I can still drop out of my contract as if I was still in the 7 day window. I will keep the phone though even if it has the same issues because it's otherwise a fantastic device.