Consumer Reports: signal issues not unique iPhone 4, no reason not to buy

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  • Reply 181 of 451
    st3v3st3v3 Posts: 63member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Hold it from the sides rather than cupping it in your hand. Problem solved. Or, if you really aren't bright enough to change the way to hold your phone, turn the phone upside down.







    Actually, it won't. The massive flaws of the Android phones have been largely ignored by the media. They seem to only be able to handle one target at a time - and Apple is this year's winner.



    Because Apple is of more interest to the average consumer.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joguide View Post


    After a week of mass hysteria, thanks to the work by Anandtech, Consumer Reports and others, the issue is finally getting a true, analytical vetting-and the conclusion is that iP4 is the best phone on the planet.



    SJ was right, don't hold it that way, but even if you are a masochist and insist on deliberately trying to drop your call, you actually only loose one bar, unless of course you have bad signal to start off with.



    For the Android lovers, you day of reckoning is coming in 2 weeks. Your new Android XYZ will also get the same vetting, and guess what, your precious phone will loose bars just like any other phone. The only bad thing is that no one is going to carry the story because no one wants one and no one cares. How many people are going to stand in line all night for this phone? How much phone do you think it will sell in 3 days? When the Android XYZ goes on sale, it will be a nonevent.



    So you Trolls, go back to your cave before you get hurt. The night is lifting and the sun is coming out. But if you insist on coming back, come back on Android XYZ launch day. As they say, turnabout it fair play. Should be fun...



    JoeG



    Well, I think having to hold the phone in an unnatural position to browse the web is a bit much. How you hold your phone shouldn't have to be a thought in your mind. Also, I think it's been established that the iPhone loses more bars than the average phone... All phones lose some signal when held, but the issue is more significant on the iPhone.



    Also, I'm not sure why you're wasting your time writing to Android fanboys. The sales of the iPhone don't make it a better phone. I'm willing to bet if the iPhone 3Gs came out this year, even against much higher specced Android phones, it would still sell very well. A lot of the time, people buy Apple products for the name more than anything. Same applies for standing in line--Apple has crazed fanboys that Android just wouldn't have. If sales meant the product was better, Windows would be the clear victor vs Macs. If you're trying to support your purchase at least give relevant reasons. Your response could essentially be shrunken down to "HAHA MY PHONE IS MORE POPULAR THAN YOURS". It's not really necessary or relevant to this topic.



    http://gizmodo.com/5555953/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty
  • Reply 182 of 451
    vrkiranvrkiran Posts: 110member
    The problems Steve Jobs had during keynote are due to the same design issue? He was cupping the phone, if you watch carefully.
  • Reply 183 of 451
    After having the iPhone 4 for several days, I've found:



    1) You can't trust the bars. Anyone who is basing their experiences on the phone's bars is flawed. Apple says the bars do not represent accurately the reception signal strength.



    2) Overall phone performance is actually better than the 3GS, as explained in several experiments.



    3) You can reduce signal strength by touching/holding/licking the antenna. Any antenna. I can see the same result on my ATSC TV receiver. Except for licking. I haven't tried that yet.



    4) Signal attenuation can cause LOS (loss of signal) in low signal strength areas. In normal to high signal strength areas, the antenna attenuation is not noticed nor does it effect call quality.



    5) There are very few RF antenna engineers on these forums. Anyone who says the design is incorrect or the RF system is flawed is not speaking from a knowledgeable background. It is an opinion, not fact. All the double Es please raise their hands.



    I put a small piece of electrical tape on the phone's antenna. With the tape in place, bar reduction by holding the phone is much less in a low RF site, based on the flawed signal strength indicator. So if you want to isolate the antenna from the hand, a small amount of E tape may work. Tape or no tape, overall reception is better with the iPhone 4, based on my non-scientific experiments.



    6) I do not know the algorithm used to calculate bar strength. I am suspicious of the math when I see my phone going to a max of five when I know I am in a low signal strength area due to past experience with AT&T phones at my home. Five bars is dreaming. It is an incorrect display of signal strength.



    7) The other parts of the iPhone are incredible. The screen, HD video, audio quality, overall speed, still photo quality, etc.



    8) I have owned Apple stock for years, bought at $13. I also probably own some AT&T stock through mutual funds. My father worked for the Long Lines department of AT&T for 43 years. It was a far different company back then.
  • Reply 184 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    I'd bet we can both agree to call him consistently favorable. Like the CR and anandtech's article, he selectively hand-picked the positive pieces.



    Possible, but I'm going to read the CR article myself (I subscribe) to see if they were just compiling info from other sources or did some of their own testing.
  • Reply 185 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iandean View Post


    how much did apple pay him for this tripe?



    All positive press about Apple is bought and paid for? Brilliant.
  • Reply 186 of 451
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    I couldn't resist posting this to drive the antenna denialist's even more out of their minds. It's Ive's in January 2010 and was posted over at MacRumors with pics-



    "There isn't a pointing device. There isn't even a single orientation. There's no up, there's no down... there's no right or wrong way of holding it. I don't have to change myself to fit the product, it fits me."



    Ive is actually talking about the iPad here, not the iPhone.



    "... there is no right or wrong way to hold it" is referring to the fact that the screen will swivel around on the iPad so that even if you hold it upside down it just adjust for that.



    Either you, or the original poster over at MacRumours is trying to pull a fast one with the facts.
  • Reply 187 of 451
    xzuxzu Posts: 139member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davidcarswell View Post


    oh hell-

    i cant even make my connection drop a bar for phone calls or data even using my tongue to bridge the antennae...

    go figure.



    loving my iphone 4 in san francisco. where i have never had a dropped call(even with my 3g and 3gs)-and SF is notorious for drops-maybe there was a bad batch-but it more and more looking like a user issue. i don't know anyone who has had a problem-8 different people i know personally have increased reception.



    -david



    hope all your problems iron out!

    good luck.



    I have to say I am in the same position in New Jersey. Neither the ATT&T rep or myself could replicate the problem. The AT&T rep said he did have one unit he could make the signal drop, but said the one I have doesn't do the same thing even after multiple attempts with various vulcan deathgrips on the thing.



    If you are having problems, return your phone, get your money back. There are a lot of other phones out there that may work better in your specific area.
  • Reply 188 of 451
    yosh01yosh01 Posts: 16member
    [QUOTE=jragosta;1667781]Can you show that the signal dropped a significant amount or simply that the bar indicator dropped? Is there any evidence that the iPhone 4 drops more calls than previous phones? So far, the evidence says the opposite.



    This problem has to vary from phone to phone. My calls drop nearly every time when I hold it in my left hand without a bumper. It takes about 20 seconds for the signal to degrade from multiple bars to "no service". This happens at home, at work, and in between, all places where my 3G had no reception problems. With the bumper, I have no problem. All I want from Apple is a refund on my bumper case.
  • Reply 189 of 451
    vrkiranvrkiran Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Ive is actually talking about the iPad here, not the iPhone.



    "... there is no right or wrong way to hold it" is referring to the fact that the screen will swivel around on the iPad so that even if you hold it upside down it just adjust for that.



    Either you, or the original poster over at MacRumours is trying to pull a fast one with the facts.



    You are right, but so far, in these many years, neither Apple nor any other company (including Microsoft and Nokia) told me how to hold my phone/laptop/netbook/iPod/Zune/PSP or any other device. Nor I remember anyone telling me that I must buy a case to use my device.



    It's like my lawn mower company telling me that I must use a protective cover for the engine so that grass does not get into it and kill it (yes, I am just back from the yard).
  • Reply 190 of 451
    vrkiranvrkiran Posts: 110member
    How the heck does a case compensate for an allegedly weak ATT signal?
  • Reply 191 of 451
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djdj View Post


    The data published by Anandtech and my own experience differ from what CR is saying here.



    I don't own an iPhone personally (AT&T absolutely sucks at my house to the point of not being usable), but I do have several friends that do, and upgraded from iPhone 3Gs (plural, not 3GS). In all cases, they have had a lot more trouble maintaining a signal, and a LOT more dropped calls with the iPhone 4 than they did with the 3G models they had before. In fact, one friend, Paul, routinely asks me to tether through my T-Mobile HD2 whenever we're together so he can actually access the Internet, because his phone is not able to lock onto AT&T well enough for the phone to actually be usable. Another, Spencer, has made it a point to vocally complain about signal issues, the inability to reliably connect, and vocally count off the amount of time it takes to send a text message, even when the phone is reporting 5 bars of signal. Both were satisfied customers with their 3G phones.



    In the cases of the 4 people I know with iPhone 4 models, all of them are having a LOT more signal issues than they did with the 3G model, even without bridging the gap on the lower left corner. Their phones are basically not usable, where the 3G could actually make calls and browse the Internet.



    Based on what I am seeing, I am actively warning people away from the 4 until Apple acknowledges a problem. Anandtech did good quality quantitative analysis of the signal problem, and it is very real. The antenna design of the 4 is pretty bad, and while the bumper case helps, it doesn't solve it. Apple really blew it on this one.



    This post is shamefully dumb or purposely deceptive. Either way it's a waste of space.



    First, CR completely agrees with the data published by Anandtech, so you are just completely wrong about that from the get-go. It's easy to look up each of the original articles and compare them, and they both agree on all the main points. To say that they don't, (as I implied above) is either dumb or plain old deceptive.



    Secondly, you don't even *own* an iPhone, you live in a horrible signal area and you are basing everything you say on your interpretation of your friends telling of their experiences. In other words, classic "third-hand" data which is essentially meaningless, especially compared to the two reports of which we speak (Anandtech and CR). Why should anyone believe your single anecdotal third-hand guesswork over and above two very detailed reports from two very well respected testing organisations? This is just ludicrous.



    You also show bias in that you are "warning people away" from the iPhone based on this tripe. Face it, you are an iPhone/AT&T hater just looking for an excuse. Anyone of your friends who is foolish enough to take your advice deserves what they get I suppose.



    Finally, the fact that you don't really know *anything* about this topic is also revealed by the way in which you toss in the last two statements about the iPhone 4 based on ... well absolutely nothing. You say that "the antenna design is bad" (but you clearly know nothing about antenna design), and you say that " the bumper ... doesn't solve it" even though (again) both of these famous testing facilities that actually did the work on this, say the exact opposite (that the antenna is fantastic and that the bumper solves the problem).



    I don't know why i bothered to even reply in such detail as it's pretty clear that you are talking out of another orifice besides your mouth here and basically just making crap up to satisfy your already deeply held beliefs.
  • Reply 192 of 451
    hands sandonhands sandon Posts: 5,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Ive is actually talking about the iPad here, not the iPhone.



    "... there is no right or wrong way to hold it" is referring to the fact that the screen will swivel around on the iPad so that even if you hold it upside down it just adjust for that.



    Either you, or the original poster over at MacRumours is trying to pull a fast one with the facts.



    You don't say!



    You've got to admit, it's a pretty nice feature.
  • Reply 193 of 451
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member
    Apple's explanation yesterday made it clear this is not an antenna issue - it is an AT&T issue. And I have extensive experience with that company. As I made clear in my original post, the Droid "Whatever" is a decent phone, not nearly as good as the iPhone 4, but half of the equation is the network, isn't it. And I didn't know there was a litmus test for posting on this forum. If you want to tell each other how great your phones are, be my guest.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tigerten-flash View Post


    It doesn't bother me in the least. I don't go over to Android blogs and say how great the iPhone is. I'm sure the Droid Whatever is a wonderful piece of kit, but since this forum is about the iPhone 4 and people's issues with the antenna, it's not relevant.



    If you have your shiny new Android and are a pleased as punch, then I stand by my original comment - you have what you deserve. Why does that bother you so much?



  • Reply 194 of 451
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Ive is actually talking about the iPad here, not the iPhone.



    "... there is no right or wrong way to hold it" is referring to the fact that the screen will swivel around on the iPad so that even if you hold it upside down it just adjust for that.



    Either you, or the original poster over at MacRumours is trying to pull a fast one with the facts.



    Still, it's funny:
    Jon Ive on iPad: "There's no right or wrong way of holding it. I don't have to change myself to fit the product, it fits me."



    Steve Jobs on iPhone 4: "Just avoiding holding it that way."

    Of course, if you think about what Ive is referring to for more than 2 seconds everything you state is absolutely true and any argument that Ives and Jobs are contradicting each other flies out the window. But most people don't seem to care to think about what is actually being discussed between the two comments regarding RF attenuation and orientation.



    Heck, the iPhone has "wrong ways" to hold it since the beginning (I don't think any Apple iPhone app will orient with the Home Button to the top) and with the iPad they even inform you, by law, how you should hold the device to prevent RF interference and exposure. Good marketing and reality are never fully in sync, nor should they be.
  • Reply 195 of 451
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 862member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post


    After having the iPhone 4 for several days, I've found:



    1) You can't trust the bars. Anyone who is basing their experiences on the phone's bars is flawed. Apple says the bars do not represent accurately the reception signal strength.



    2) Overall phone performance is actually better than the 3GS, as explained in several experiments.



    3) You can reduce signal strength by touching/holding/licking the antenna. Any antenna. I can see the same result on my ATSC TV receiver. Except for licking. I haven't tried that yet.



    4) Signal attenuation can cause LOS (loss of signal) in low signal strength areas. In normal to high signal strength areas, the antenna attenuation is not noticed nor does it effect call quality.



    5) There are very few RF antenna engineers on these forums. Anyone who says the design is incorrect or the RF system is flawed is not speaking from a knowledgeable background. It is an opinion, not fact. All the double Es please raise their hands.



    I put a small piece of electrical tape on the phone's antenna. With the tape in place, bar reduction by holding the phone is much less in a low RF site, based on the flawed signal strength indicator. So if you want to isolate the antenna from the hand, a small amount of E tape may work. Tape or no tape, overall reception is better with the iPhone 4, based on my non-scientific experiments.



    6) I do not know the algorithm used to calculate bar strength. I am suspicious of the math when I see my phone going to a max of five when I know I am in a low signal strength area due to past experience with AT&T phones at my home. Five bars is dreaming. It is an incorrect display of signal strength.



    7) The other parts of the iPhone are incredible. The screen, HD video, audio quality, overall speed, still photo quality, etc.



    8) I have owned Apple stock for years, bought at $13. I also probably own some AT&T stock through mutual funds. My father worked for the Long Lines department of AT&T for 43 years. It was a far different company back then.



    Well Put!!

    BOTTOM LINE: Everybody knows all the pluses & minuses the decision is yours to BUY IT or NOT to BUY IT. (or if you've already bought it, to keep it or return it as the 30 day return period has NOT expired for anyone yet as the product hasn't been around that long.
  • Reply 196 of 451
    malachimalachi Posts: 2member
    Whoever called this article our for being bias was right on the money...



    When I hold the phone in my left hand, resting it in my palm, and holding the edges with my fingers (which I just assumed was the natural way every person out there held a cell phone) my calls drop and I get no internet. I did speed tests and call tests. Tangible and finite results that the true problem is the "grounding of the antenna by touching the left and bottom-left metal rim" which is the exact phrase an Apple employee used to describe my problem...



    Holding the phone in a special way is how you get the thing to work... not the other way around... it's not the other way around.
  • Reply 197 of 451
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    So why even say that then?



    He's one of these types:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=Did+G...irl+in+1990%3F



    After all, that's not a statement, just a question.
  • Reply 198 of 451
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    ... the iPhone has "wrong ways" to hold it since the beginning (I don't think any Apple iPhone app will orient with the Home Button to the top) ...



    I downloaded a signal testing app last night that does this on the iPhone, which kind of took me by surprise.



    I guess with the blending of 3.2 with 4.0 and iPad with iPhone that we will see more of that kind of thing.
  • Reply 199 of 451
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    The suggestion was to turn the phone upside down when accessing the Internet.



    That's utterly ridiculous advice and you know it. I'm quite surprised at your response.



    Quote:

    It has already been established that cupping the bottom of the phone in your hand while making a call is extremely difficult to do



    Unnaturally cupping the bottom of the phone is wholly unnecessary to kill reception with the iPhone 4--unlike with other cell phones, such as previous generation iPhones--and is irrelevant to the present case. What is relevant: it's extremely easy and natural to bridge the antenna gap while holding the iPhone 4.



    Quote:

    the normal grip would be to hold the phone by the sides



    Do you also drink wine with your pinky standing out? The most relaxed way to hold the phone to one's ear is to rest it on the base of the thumb, thus bridging the antenna gap.



    Quote:

    Even if you have some weird anatomy, there are ver few reports of dropped calls when holding the phone.



    Without rudely referring to anatomical deformities, I would hazard to guess almost all dropped phone calls occur while the iPhone is being held. This isn't unique to the iPhone, of course, so I don't know what you're trying to say.



    Quote:

    There are a few more cases of decreased internet access speeds, which is why the above suggestion is made.



    I can testify to ZERO Internet speed and "No Service" (that would be no calls either, by the way) while holding the phone naturally with the antenna gap bridged, in a location that almost certainly has low signal strength but is reported by the iPhone 4 to have 5 bars reception and yields good Internet speed when it isn't being held. Displaying 2 bars less than 4 or 5 isn't going to change my expectations of being able to use the cellular network.





    Quote:

    Hint: owning Apple stock isn't really very relevant. Apple's share price has not gone down any more than the market over the past week's feeding frenzy, so clearly all the whining and moaning is not impacting the stock, so there would be no reason for him to destroy his journalistic career to prop up the stock.



    Hint: The issue isn't Apple's stock price. Go to Bloomberg.com if that's your interest.
  • Reply 200 of 451
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by malachi View Post


    Whoever called this article our for being bias was right on the money...



    When I hold the phone in my left hand, resting it in my palm, and holding the edges with my fingers (which I just assumed was the natural way every person out there held a cell phone) my calls drop and I get no internet. I did speed tests and call tests. Tangible and finite results that the true problem is the "grounding of the antenna by touching the left and bottom-left metal rim" which is the exact phrase an Apple employee used to describe my problem...



    Holding the phone in a special way is how you get the thing to work... not the other way around... it's not the other way around.



    That's not true - unless you have some really bizarre anatomy. If you hold the phone cupped in your palm as people are suggesting, it's nearly impossible to hold it to your ear. You can do so, but your arm is twisted across the middle of your chest.



    The most natural way to hold it (and the way almost everyone I've seen holds their phone) is between the thumb and fingers-which does not cause any problems.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vrkiran View Post


    You are right, but so far, in these many years, neither Apple nor any other company (including Microsoft and Nokia) told me how to hold my phone/laptop/netbook/iPod/Zune/PSP or any other device. Nor I remember anyone telling me that I must buy a case to use my device.



    This is demonstrably false. There are pleny of examples of phone companies explaining that the signal drops if you put your hand near the bottom.



    Since you can't even get the most basic facts right, why should anyone believe anything you say?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Yosh01 View Post


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Can you show that the signal dropped a significant amount or simply that the bar indicator dropped? Is there any evidence that the iPhone 4 drops more calls than previous phones? So far, the evidence says the opposite.



    This problem has to vary from phone to phone. My calls drop nearly every time when I hold it in my left hand without a bumper. It takes about 20 seconds for the signal to degrade from multiple bars to "no service". This happens at home, at work, and in between, all places where my 3G had no reception problems. With the bumper, I have no problem. All I want from Apple is a refund on my bumper case.



    Then exchange your phone. Or you can take your phone back for a refund.
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