Here in Australia all 5 carriers, to my knowledge, will unlock an iPhone at any time when requested.
I find it difficult to believe that AT&T don't know how to do it.
Uh-hello-
They probably jailbreak it!
You can find and download the software with just a quick google search-
I personally like AT&T and wasn't eligible for an early upgrade and purchased the iP4 for $599-I am pleased with my service and find the phone worth every penny. I will jailbreak it as soon as it is released so I can add features to the system-and get true multitasking back like the JB on my previous 3g and 3gs offered. Plus a lot more ease of use functionality still missing from the iOS. If I travel abroad - my JB iP as I understand will work my purchasing a sim card and putting it in-there is already a way to make the larger sims fit the smaller sim holder in the iP4 so many options are open if I want to switch to any SIM based cell service-there are a zillion (baseband downloads) in the Cydia (the JB app store) to install from all over the world to make the US iP operate and cooperate with service abroad-and before any body says JB is for pirated software - eff off - i have bought over 200 apps. And never pirated anything! Well yes I have installed a hacked iOS but its my phone.
sorry for the ramble-but this whole entire forum is a big nonissue! which = ramble....
They don't have to. Many international iPhone carrier will unlock it after certain period of time. The process is so simple that some carriers offer unlock on their website. You enter your iPhone UDID and the next time you connect your iPhone to iTunes it will be unlocked. Jailbreaking by itself is NOT unlock. Sure, you can jailbreak and unlock your iPhone but you will be stuck if Apple release an iOS update and have to wait until they jailbreak and unlock it, which could take weeks.
They don't have to. Many international iPhone carrier will unlock it after certain period of time. The process is so simple that some carriers offer unlock on their website. You enter your iPhone UDID and the next time you connect your iPhone to iTunes it will be unlocked. Jailbreaking by itself is NOT unlock. Sure, you can jailbreak and unlock your iPhone but you will be stuck if Apple release an iOS update and have to wait until they jailbreak and unlock it, which could take weeks.
Yeah - I run BETA games occasionally for a couple companies they do something similar to issue out the BETAs-
RE: the wait for new updates-
I have never seen an iOS update that offered me any dire necessity to bother-perhaps one day i will have to wait a few weeks. But one great feature of the JB is that Cydia (the JB app store) hashes all your hardware shsh UDID info so that when a release comes out and and lets say you find you prefer the previous version of the iOS for some reason or another bug that needs a new update in the future, you can install any iOS that has been recorded on Cydia - allowing you to install the versions that Apple through iTunes no longer allow- so in layman's terms you can downgrade-and THAT is so worth a week or two while the DevTeam irons out a new JB for the newest Apple iOS update. Also if something goes wrong with your phone of course you can always restore through iTunes and and then take your phone in with your AppleCare. It doesn't do a thing to the phone's hardware-they won't even know. Had to do it once. Had a screen issue with my old 3g-they actually replaced it with a 3gs free of charge. Thanks Apple!
But yes you are right if my phone was rendered useless in need of an updated iOS then absolutely it would suck!! well more than suck! LOL
Yeah - I run BETA games occasionally for a couple companies they do something similar to issue out the BETAs-
RE: the wait for new updates-
I have never seen an iOS update that offered me any dire necessity to bother-perhaps one day i will have to wait a few weeks. But one great feature of the JB is that Cydia (the JB app store) hashes all your hardware shsh UDID info so that when a release comes out and and lets say you find you prefer the previous version of the iOS for some reason or another bug that needs a new update in the future, you can install any iOS that has been recorded on Cydia - allowing you to install the versions that Apple through iTunes no longer allow- so in layman's terms you can downgrade-and THAT is so worth a week or two while the DevTeam irons out a new JB for the newest Apple iOS update. Also if something goes wrong with your phone of course you can always restore through iTunes and and then take your phone in with your AppleCare. It doesn't do a thing to the phone's hardware-they won't even know. Had to do it once. Had a screen issue with my old 3g-they actually replaced it with a 3gs free of charge. Thanks Apple!
But yes you are right if my phone was rendered useless in need of an updated iOS then absolutely it would suck!! well more than suck! LOL
-david
I know what jailbreak is. Personally, I don't care about all the jailbreak stuff. I only needed jailbreak few months ago to use my iPhone overseas then restored it when I got back. I will be getting my iPhone 4 from Canada unlocked by Apple WITH tethering later this month
Your average user don't really want to go through all what you said. Go to iPhone Dev Team website and look at how many people ungraded to iOS 4 and now stuck. Not to mention that new iPhones only support tethered jailbreak.
You need to read the my original post entirely. As I said, AT&T investment in the iPhone is long term. You didn't think when I said losing money that meant they are actually not getting return from iPhone users, did you?
The guy that responded to you did. (See post #93).
Once you have completed your contract you should be able to use the phone on another network that is compatible. Meaning in the US T-Mobile. You would not get 3G but that should be your choice. Apple has no responsibility to change hardware design other than to allow for an unlocked phone.
This is a stupid lawsuit and won't go very far. Companies have a legitimate right to choose the distribution method for their products. Toyota is free to sell their cars only through Toyota dealers. If I invent something new, I'm free to sell it only through Best Buy or Walmart or Billy Bob's Bait and Tackle if I wish.
Consumers do not have an absolute right to any product they wish to buy. They have a right to buy it under terms that the seller chooses to offer. Any other rule would be a disaster.
We really need 'loser pays' for lawsuits in this country.
But suppose Toyota said you could only use Toyota dealers for service or that when you went to sell your car you had to sell it through a Toyota dealer. They would be putting restrictions on something that you own outright. With the Iphone at the end of your contract you own it outright yet you can't do what you want. Apple can choose AT&T as its exclusive distributor and they can specify sales terms but once you own it it is yours.
This is a stupid lawsuit and won't go very far. Companies have a legitimate right to choose the distribution method for their products. Toyota is free to sell their cars only through Toyota dealers. If I invent something new, I'm free to sell it only through Best Buy or Walmart or Billy Bob's Bait and Tackle if I wish.
Consumers do not have an absolute right to any product they wish to buy. They have a right to buy it under terms that the seller chooses to offer. Any other rule would be a disaster.
We really need 'loser pays' for lawsuits in this countr .
That's a bad example. What if Toyota made the car to use a special gasoline from only one gas station?While everyone else is going to whatever gas station they wanted to with their cars.
That's a bad example. What if Toyota made the car to use a special gasoline from only one gas station?While everyone else is going to whatever gas station they wanted to with their cars.
When Apple makes a phone that uses special electricity to power the device then we can revisit this scenario.
As usial they are fighting the wrong fight and going about it all wrong. Apple is doing what all vendors and carriers do, to varying degree. The iPhone being th phone they want and AT&T being te carrier thy don't want doesn't change the way a free market works.
On top on that, tuning the iPhone on EDGE on T-Mobile USA will not suit most users. You can't make Apple support T-Mobile's UMTS operating band or create a CDMA iPhone for Verizon and Sprint.
Somewhere around reality and pragmatism is getting legislation to require phone unlocks for all products using cellular networks once the contract has been satisfied.
QFT
But look at it this way. After the two years is up, the device is yours and you wanna sell it but you're limited to selling it only to someone on ATT and that right that is some BS.
But look at it this way. After the two years is up, the device is yours and you wanna sell it but you're limited to selling it only to someone on ATT and that right that is some BS.
Are you agreeing with my comment or disagreeing with it?
If you?ve read the rest of the thread I?ve stated several times that they need to pass a law to make it illegal to keep ANY phones locked on ANY carrier after your contract has been satisfied. In the end, that needs a bill to be made into a law, not a civil lawsuit.
As usial they are fighting the wrong fight and going about it all wrong. Apple is doing what all vendors and carriers do, to varying degree. The iPhone being th phone they want and AT&T being te carrier thy don't want doesn't change the way a free market works.
On top on that, tuning the iPhone on EDGE on T-Mobile USA will not suit most users. You can't make Apple support T-Mobile's UMTS operating band or create a CDMA iPhone for Verizon and Sprint.
Somewhere around reality and pragmatism is getting legislation to require phone unlocks for all products using cellular networks once the contract has been satisfied.
QFT
I don't doubt that AT&T is the best GSM provider in US anyway - but can you put other GSM cards when you travel overseas? With my iPhone 3Gs purchased at Vodafone NZ, I can. I did opt to pay full price and get unlocked phone free of any contract, but to my knowledge - even people with contracts can have their phones unlocked after contract has expired.
Its an example to make the numbnuts understand, layman's term. I just knew one of you would have to say something.
It?s a silly example that has no barring to the situation and doesn?t make sense. A more accurate ?yet still weak example since we are comparing a cellphone (which requires another company?s network services to work) to a car ? is saying that you want a Toyota that isn?t doesn?t include parts from x-supplier. Both products in this example have requirements that the buyer can?t opt out of, the only difference is one is included in the product and the other is dependent upon a reoccurring service fee. Like I said, still weak, but at least it tried to be pull the comparison into some realm of reality.
A more accurate examples might be cable boxes and modem that you rent from your cable provider, which is like subsidization because you are responsible for the cost if you don?t return it. I think many were programmed to work with a specific cable provider until a law was created that forces cable companies to allow users the option of providing their own equipment. Essentially, an unlocked boxed they can buy outright and use with other cable companies. (That seems to the gist of it as I best recall but I?m sure some of that into is inaccurate so if anyone can clarify that a bit, that would be great)
Any such policy, especially accompanied by a sign would get you sued to the dark ages.
You and I may never open a business with such a policy but sadly some would. Lots did until the civil rights act was passed.
I think you are wrong on this... there are many men only, women only, Christian Only, etc. businesses in the US. They are private clubs on private property that only allow members and their guests... and at many a quick way to get your membership revoked is to bring a guest who could not be a member... as far as opening a business in a public place... please define public.... public as in government owned like a concession stand in a park or public as in privately owned but any one can go (like a shopping mall)... you would be correct that the concessioner would have to serve all, but I could open a health club in a mall on only allow men, or whites, or women, or african americans to join and be with in my rights as long as I receive no state or federal funding.
Hope something comes of this, but wouldn't hold my breath. It shouldn't be legal to lock a phone, especially after satisfying the contract term... but when they use the term monopoly they lose a lot of credibility.
I think the real question is why Apple chooses to not unlock phones. Only manufacturer I am aware of doing it in the US.
Very true, and the one weak point in Apples defense, If I buy an iPhone, do my 2 year sentence with AT&T and decide to go out of the country with it. I should be able to us it on another GSM network.
Very true, and the one weak point in Apples defense, If I buy an iPhone, do my 2 year sentence with AT&T and decide to go out of the country with it. I should be able to us it on another GSM network.
I still don?t get why people are making this an Apple and AT&T issue. THE iPHONE IS NOT THE ONLY PHONE IN THE US THAT IS LOCKED OR REMAINS LOCKED AFTER YOUR CONTRACT IS UP.
Comments
Here in Australia all 5 carriers, to my knowledge, will unlock an iPhone at any time when requested.
I find it difficult to believe that AT&T don't know how to do it.
Uh-hello-
They probably jailbreak it!
You can find and download the software with just a quick google search-
I personally like AT&T and wasn't eligible for an early upgrade and purchased the iP4 for $599-I am pleased with my service and find the phone worth every penny. I will jailbreak it as soon as it is released so I can add features to the system-and get true multitasking back like the JB on my previous 3g and 3gs offered. Plus a lot more ease of use functionality still missing from the iOS. If I travel abroad - my JB iP as I understand will work my purchasing a sim card and putting it in-there is already a way to make the larger sims fit the smaller sim holder in the iP4 so many options are open if I want to switch to any SIM based cell service-there are a zillion (baseband downloads) in the Cydia (the JB app store) to install from all over the world to make the US iP operate and cooperate with service abroad-and before any body says JB is for pirated software - eff off - i have bought over 200 apps. And never pirated anything! Well yes I have installed a hacked iOS but its my phone.
sorry for the ramble-but this whole entire forum is a big nonissue! which = ramble....
-david
Uh-hello-
They probably jailbreak it!
...
-david
They don't have to. Many international iPhone carrier will unlock it after certain period of time. The process is so simple that some carriers offer unlock on their website. You enter your iPhone UDID and the next time you connect your iPhone to iTunes it will be unlocked. Jailbreaking by itself is NOT unlock. Sure, you can jailbreak and unlock your iPhone but you will be stuck if Apple release an iOS update and have to wait until they jailbreak and unlock it, which could take weeks.
Uh-hello-
They probably jailbreak it!
The carriers jailbreak it? Uh, yeah.
More likely, laws in Australia require that all phones be unlocked on request.
They don't have to. Many international iPhone carrier will unlock it after certain period of time. The process is so simple that some carriers offer unlock on their website. You enter your iPhone UDID and the next time you connect your iPhone to iTunes it will be unlocked. Jailbreaking by itself is NOT unlock. Sure, you can jailbreak and unlock your iPhone but you will be stuck if Apple release an iOS update and have to wait until they jailbreak and unlock it, which could take weeks.
Yeah - I run BETA games occasionally for a couple companies they do something similar to issue out the BETAs-
RE: the wait for new updates-
I have never seen an iOS update that offered me any dire necessity to bother-perhaps one day i will have to wait a few weeks. But one great feature of the JB is that Cydia (the JB app store) hashes all your hardware shsh UDID info so that when a release comes out and and lets say you find you prefer the previous version of the iOS for some reason or another bug that needs a new update in the future, you can install any iOS that has been recorded on Cydia - allowing you to install the versions that Apple through iTunes no longer allow- so in layman's terms you can downgrade-and THAT is so worth a week or two while the DevTeam irons out a new JB for the newest Apple iOS update. Also if something goes wrong with your phone of course you can always restore through iTunes and and then take your phone in with your AppleCare. It doesn't do a thing to the phone's hardware-they won't even know. Had to do it once. Had a screen issue with my old 3g-they actually replaced it with a 3gs free of charge. Thanks Apple!
But yes you are right if my phone was rendered useless in need of an updated iOS then absolutely it would suck!! well more than suck! LOL
-david
The carriers jailbreak it? Uh, yeah.
More likely, laws in Australia require that all phones be unlocked on request.
YEAH you may be right-probably much more likely -
BUT a jailbreak would solve the issue in this forum or the gripes many have.
Yeah - I run BETA games occasionally for a couple companies they do something similar to issue out the BETAs-
RE: the wait for new updates-
I have never seen an iOS update that offered me any dire necessity to bother-perhaps one day i will have to wait a few weeks. But one great feature of the JB is that Cydia (the JB app store) hashes all your hardware shsh UDID info so that when a release comes out and and lets say you find you prefer the previous version of the iOS for some reason or another bug that needs a new update in the future, you can install any iOS that has been recorded on Cydia - allowing you to install the versions that Apple through iTunes no longer allow- so in layman's terms you can downgrade-and THAT is so worth a week or two while the DevTeam irons out a new JB for the newest Apple iOS update. Also if something goes wrong with your phone of course you can always restore through iTunes and and then take your phone in with your AppleCare. It doesn't do a thing to the phone's hardware-they won't even know. Had to do it once. Had a screen issue with my old 3g-they actually replaced it with a 3gs free of charge. Thanks Apple!
But yes you are right if my phone was rendered useless in need of an updated iOS then absolutely it would suck!! well more than suck! LOL
-david
I know what jailbreak is. Personally, I don't care about all the jailbreak stuff. I only needed jailbreak few months ago to use my iPhone overseas then restored it when I got back. I will be getting my iPhone 4 from Canada unlocked by Apple WITH tethering later this month
Your average user don't really want to go through all what you said. Go to iPhone Dev Team website and look at how many people ungraded to iOS 4 and now stuck. Not to mention that new iPhones only support tethered jailbreak.
You need to read the my original post entirely. As I said, AT&T investment in the iPhone is long term. You didn't think when I said losing money that meant they are actually not getting return from iPhone users, did you?
The guy that responded to you did. (See post #93).
This is a stupid lawsuit and won't go very far. Companies have a legitimate right to choose the distribution method for their products. Toyota is free to sell their cars only through Toyota dealers. If I invent something new, I'm free to sell it only through Best Buy or Walmart or Billy Bob's Bait and Tackle if I wish.
Consumers do not have an absolute right to any product they wish to buy. They have a right to buy it under terms that the seller chooses to offer. Any other rule would be a disaster.
We really need 'loser pays' for lawsuits in this country.
But suppose Toyota said you could only use Toyota dealers for service or that when you went to sell your car you had to sell it through a Toyota dealer. They would be putting restrictions on something that you own outright. With the Iphone at the end of your contract you own it outright yet you can't do what you want. Apple can choose AT&T as its exclusive distributor and they can specify sales terms but once you own it it is yours.
This is a stupid lawsuit and won't go very far. Companies have a legitimate right to choose the distribution method for their products. Toyota is free to sell their cars only through Toyota dealers. If I invent something new, I'm free to sell it only through Best Buy or Walmart or Billy Bob's Bait and Tackle if I wish.
Consumers do not have an absolute right to any product they wish to buy. They have a right to buy it under terms that the seller chooses to offer. Any other rule would be a disaster.
We really need 'loser pays' for lawsuits in this countr .
That's a bad example. What if Toyota made the car to use a special gasoline from only one gas station?While everyone else is going to whatever gas station they wanted to with their cars.
That's a bad example. What if Toyota made the car to use a special gasoline from only one gas station?While everyone else is going to whatever gas station they wanted to with their cars.
When Apple makes a phone that uses special electricity to power the device then we can revisit this scenario.
As usial they are fighting the wrong fight and going about it all wrong. Apple is doing what all vendors and carriers do, to varying degree. The iPhone being th phone they want and AT&T being te carrier thy don't want doesn't change the way a free market works.
On top on that, tuning the iPhone on EDGE on T-Mobile USA will not suit most users. You can't make Apple support T-Mobile's UMTS operating band or create a CDMA iPhone for Verizon and Sprint.
Somewhere around reality and pragmatism is getting legislation to require phone unlocks for all products using cellular networks once the contract has been satisfied.
QFT
But look at it this way. After the two years is up, the device is yours and you wanna sell it but you're limited to selling it only to someone on ATT and that right that is some BS.
When Apple makes a phone that uses special electricity to power the device then we can revisit this scenario.
Its an example to make the numbnuts understand, layman's term. I just knew one of you would have to say something.
But look at it this way. After the two years is up, the device is yours and you wanna sell it but you're limited to selling it only to someone on ATT and that right that is some BS.
Are you agreeing with my comment or disagreeing with it?
If you?ve read the rest of the thread I?ve stated several times that they need to pass a law to make it illegal to keep ANY phones locked on ANY carrier after your contract has been satisfied. In the end, that needs a bill to be made into a law, not a civil lawsuit.
This is a stupid lawsuit and won't go very far.
Apple should counter-sue and the court should prosecute for the filing of a frivolous lawsuit.
As usial they are fighting the wrong fight and going about it all wrong. Apple is doing what all vendors and carriers do, to varying degree. The iPhone being th phone they want and AT&T being te carrier thy don't want doesn't change the way a free market works.
On top on that, tuning the iPhone on EDGE on T-Mobile USA will not suit most users. You can't make Apple support T-Mobile's UMTS operating band or create a CDMA iPhone for Verizon and Sprint.
Somewhere around reality and pragmatism is getting legislation to require phone unlocks for all products using cellular networks once the contract has been satisfied.
QFT
I don't doubt that AT&T is the best GSM provider in US anyway - but can you put other GSM cards when you travel overseas? With my iPhone 3Gs purchased at Vodafone NZ, I can. I did opt to pay full price and get unlocked phone free of any contract, but to my knowledge - even people with contracts can have their phones unlocked after contract has expired.
Its an example to make the numbnuts understand, layman's term. I just knew one of you would have to say something.
It?s a silly example that has no barring to the situation and doesn?t make sense. A more accurate ?yet still weak example since we are comparing a cellphone (which requires another company?s network services to work) to a car ? is saying that you want a Toyota that isn?t doesn?t include parts from x-supplier. Both products in this example have requirements that the buyer can?t opt out of, the only difference is one is included in the product and the other is dependent upon a reoccurring service fee. Like I said, still weak, but at least it tried to be pull the comparison into some realm of reality.
A more accurate examples might be cable boxes and modem that you rent from your cable provider, which is like subsidization because you are responsible for the cost if you don?t return it. I think many were programmed to work with a specific cable provider until a law was created that forces cable companies to allow users the option of providing their own equipment. Essentially, an unlocked boxed they can buy outright and use with other cable companies. (That seems to the gist of it as I best recall but I?m sure some of that into is inaccurate so if anyone can clarify that a bit, that would be great)
Any such policy, especially accompanied by a sign would get you sued to the dark ages.
You and I may never open a business with such a policy but sadly some would. Lots did until the civil rights act was passed.
I think you are wrong on this... there are many men only, women only, Christian Only, etc. businesses in the US. They are private clubs on private property that only allow members and their guests... and at many a quick way to get your membership revoked is to bring a guest who could not be a member... as far as opening a business in a public place... please define public.... public as in government owned like a concession stand in a park or public as in privately owned but any one can go (like a shopping mall)... you would be correct that the concessioner would have to serve all, but I could open a health club in a mall on only allow men, or whites, or women, or african americans to join and be with in my rights as long as I receive no state or federal funding.
See also Country Clubs...
Hope something comes of this, but wouldn't hold my breath. It shouldn't be legal to lock a phone, especially after satisfying the contract term... but when they use the term monopoly they lose a lot of credibility.
I think the real question is why Apple chooses to not unlock phones. Only manufacturer I am aware of doing it in the US.
Very true, and the one weak point in Apples defense, If I buy an iPhone, do my 2 year sentence with AT&T and decide to go out of the country with it. I should be able to us it on another GSM network.
Very true, and the one weak point in Apples defense, If I buy an iPhone, do my 2 year sentence with AT&T and decide to go out of the country with it. I should be able to us it on another GSM network.
I still don?t get why people are making this an Apple and AT&T issue. THE iPHONE IS NOT THE ONLY PHONE IN THE US THAT IS LOCKED OR REMAINS LOCKED AFTER YOUR CONTRACT IS UP.
The solution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ