Growing attention on iPhone 4 signal issues presents risk for Apple

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  • Reply 101 of 192
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmheim View Post


    anyone else think Apple already knew about this long before they released the phone? because I don't remember Apple ever releasing a custom case on launch day



    You'll recall that Apple apparently did all of its field testing with the phones in cases that disguised them as 3GS's. So, Apple tested them in cases, I guess that means they're only meant to be used while in cases.
  • Reply 102 of 192
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post


    I own (for me) a considerable amount of Apple stock. The last thing I'm worried about is the stock price, since I'm holding long (think years).



    I don't see this as being out of control. I see this as being a molehill being falsely portrayed as a mountain by those who have something to gain by trying to sully Apple's reputation for quality.



    And I see it failing completely to do that.



    It may fail if people that are having this problem don't just up and return the device in exchange for a full refund or and iP3Gs. That's the only way Apple will address this issue, by see mass returns.



    Now, I don't think anyone is trying to "sully" Apple's reputation; on the contrary, i think they are trying to force Apple to live up to such reputation.
  • Reply 103 of 192
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,715member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post


    ... And we frankly don't know what all will be included in the fix, just like we really don't know what the issue is. Is it a lack of passivation in some of the stainless steel? Is it a factor of the electrolytes in the sweat of certain individuals? ...



    No, we don't. We have no idea what Apple is really up to, and that is exactly the PR problem here: allowing stories to run wild about "antenna problems", and allowing perception of this as a Big Problem to snowball, with no response at all from Apple since the poorly phrased initial response which they would have been better off not having made in the form they did. How many of the news outlets will devote the air time or inches to any fix Apple makes that they are devoting to spotlighting the issue? We all know the answer to that is that none of them will.
  • Reply 104 of 192
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post


    Then take the frigging phone back for a full refund, and quit whining about it.



    Actually, I have an appointment with a Genius tomorrow to check out the issues I'm having. Hopefully, in my case it's a defective phone...if not, I will be returning it for a refund and reactivating my 3GS.
  • Reply 105 of 192
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amature geek View Post


    You'll recall that Apple apparently did all of its field testing with the phones in cases that disguised them as 3GS's. So, Apple tested them in cases, I guess that means they're only meant to be used while in cases.



    Because a phone was found in a bar in a case, you?ve surmised that all iPhone 4 tests had to have been done in a case. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
  • Reply 106 of 192
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Keda View Post


    Technical issues aside, I am shocked by the ineptitude with which Apple has handled this damaging PR situation. From Jobs' initial statement about "improper grip" to the open letter blaming a "totally wrong" algorithm, the company has projected an image of smugness and disregard for it's customers. Instead of engaging affected users on their forums or issuing a response to any of the headline grabbing stories, Apple is allowing the talk of hardware deficiencies to grow.



    I am a long-time Apple customer, who has wanted an iPhone for years. Now I am out of contract and ready to buy, but am hesitating on pulling the trigger. Why? Because even though I want to, I don't believe Apple's assertion that a software patch will make this problem away.



    When I have heard the topic of the iPhone come up in real-life (offline) conversations, the talk immediately turned to the problems that the phone has. There were no iPhone4 owners present on any of the occasions, but each one ended by people agreeing that it was not a good idea to buy right now. If Apple doesn't get control of things soon, people will decide to delay or cancel a buying decision because of the negative word-of-mouth that this story is generating.



    Fair or not, Apple has a real problem on its hands.



    Agreed 100% Hearing your frustration with the new iP4. May i propose, if you really want the experience of the iPhone, go get the 3Gs, it may not have the crisp display or the forward camera, but what better way to tell Apple to "fix it" than to buy the previous model. Many companies did this with Windows Vista which made a pretty big statement if you ask me. Granted it took years for Windows 7 to come out afterward, but that's a whole OS, not something like the iPhone.
  • Reply 107 of 192
    sacto joesacto joe Posts: 895member
    "1) They acknowledged one problem, the bars display algorithm but did so in a less than honest manner."

    Bullshit. By definition, that's your opinion, since I don't share it.

    "2) They failed to acknowledge the more significant problem of actual signal degradation."

    Again, bullshit. They said there was an issue of the phone was held a certain way. And so it is WITH ANY CELL PHONE.

    "3) The only communications, up until the Letter, was to informally say users were holding it wrong. That is just insulting."

    Steve Jobs shot his mouth off. What's new? Live with it.

    "4) They are actively wiping any trace of the Consumers Report review from the support pages."

    Whatever, if true.

    "5) After respected publications like AnandTech and CR publish widely read articles about the antenna problem(s) there is still no comment."

    Again, bullshit. They've said a fix is in the works. And CR's punk "report" with zero documentation just isn't worth responding to. AnandTech's report, on the other hand, was far more balanced and didn't require any comment.

    "Exactly what would they have to do for you to see it as a bunker mentality? If they start sand bagging 1 Infinite Loop, will that convince you?"

    Oh, how I wish I could make light of this issue like you and CR with their "duct tape" crap. But as a stock-holder I don't take it lightly.

    Fortunately, I know how to take the long view, and I realize that this is anti-Apple forces trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Before long, it'll blow over and the irresistable force that is Apple will continue to steamroll the lock-step, dyed-in-the-wool, never-have-an-original-idea wanna-be's into oblivion, where they belong.
  • Reply 108 of 192
    tardistardis Posts: 94member
    Consumer Reports first reported that the iPhone 4 was better than the iPhone 3GS. Improved signal reception was part of the reason for that conclusion. They did not detect any problem of dropped calls or degraded antenna strength.



    After that, Consumer Reports found that they were able to reproduce degraded antenna strength in their laboratory, using a simulated AT&T antenna, when the iPhone 4's antenna was bridged by a finger.



    As a result, they are not able to "recommend" the iPhone 4. Instead, their "recommendation" is Apple's iPhone 3GS, no doubt an excellent phone but one their earlier testing showed was not as good as the iPhone 4. This recommendation does not address the obvious consumer issue that a discontinued model may not represent long term good value.



    I am not a subscriber to Consumer Reports, but have been in the past when I believed they were a genuinely impartial reviewer. I abandoned that view when CR consistently overlooked or discounted the value of the Mac computer in comparison with Windows computers. CR has gradually toned down that bias because otherwise it would make itself look ridiculous.



    Consumer Reports' desire to present itself as an impartial, technology-based, reviewer of products may be undermined by this comedy double-act piss-take of an Apple ad, with an obvious Android fan making fun of a second-rate Steve Jobs Nerdalike;



    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/v.../105241463001/



    So is this a genuine issue that will stop users buying iPhones? Probably depends on how much ordinary mobile phone buyers check out nerdy websites like this. All the evidence so far is that typical users do not consult tech blogs.



    If people buy iPhones and they work, they will be happy and tell all their friends. If too many of them have problems, they will tell all their friends and those people may stop buying iPhones. That is the point where Apple may change some part of their product line, such as allowing users to interfere with Apple's wireless technology by short-circuiting the iPhone 4's antenna system with unacceptable parts of their anatomy.



    That's how Apple interacts with the landscape.
  • Reply 109 of 192
    There's an old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" And as far as Apple seem concerned the iPhone 4 isn't broken.



    Whilst sales are still strong and iP4 is in demand then Apple's stance won't change. Of course if there really isn't an issue then expect nothing anyway. If there is then it's going to be interesting to see how they wriggle out of this one.



    I really have sympathy for those of you who are still having connection issue's, although i would have thought by now you'd have exercised your right to a refund, and i still haven't read or heard of these issues in the UK.



    I know at least 20 people, a dozen of which work in our offices, who have the iP4 and no connection issue's. Maybe this is a bad batch or isolated to the US/AT&T and the ongoing poor network coverage you guys suffer.



    I haven't read any UK posters here complaining either so if your out there lets us Brits know.



    Meanwhile i bought a bumper for the iP4 on Saturday, as it's already fallen off the fireplace, and not a jot of difference to coverage. Still pants at home which it always has been but super speedy at work 25 miles down the road.



    So hasn't made the experience any better or worse for me, just protects my investment like it should.
  • Reply 110 of 192
    iguesssoiguessso Posts: 132member
    To me, the worst part of this whole story is this:



    "Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong."
  • Reply 111 of 192
    swilcoxswilcox Posts: 20member
    This whole thing is stupid. Does clutching the iPhone 4 cause this problem? I guess it does -- lots of people say so. But I have had NO PROBLEM whatsoever. In fact, this is the BEST iPhone I've had. It gets signals where iPhones got none before -- for me compared to my old 3G, for friends who experienced the same thing with their 3GS. More calls. No dropped calls. Tons faster. breathtaking display.



    Those of you who are holding off because of this are just plain being silly. iPhone 4 is the best iPhone ever. Jobs might be an ass sometimes, but in this he's right -- just don't hold your phone in a death grip, or put a case on it (why would you not do that anyway?).
  • Reply 112 of 192
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    There will be NO recall.





    If you don't like the phone, RETURN IT.
  • Reply 113 of 192
    sacto joesacto joe Posts: 895member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tardis View Post


    ...Consumer Reports' desire to present itself as an impartial, technology-based, reviewer of products may be undermined by this comedy double-act piss-take of an Apple ad, with an obvious Android fan making fun of a second-rate Steve Jobs Nerdalike...If people buy iPhones and they work, they will be happy and tell all their friends. If too many of them have problems, they will tell all their friends and those people may stop buying iPhones...That's how Apple interacts with the landscape.



    Thanks for the level-headed post. I concur completely.
  • Reply 114 of 192
    Lesson for Apple: Always perform a final test with a product in its final form (no 3GS case disguises!).



    Lesson for Us: Never be the first to buy any new product (car, computer, software, cell phone, etc). Let the "day 1 fools" buy it first....wait until the bugs are worked out.
  • Reply 115 of 192
    doxxicdoxxic Posts: 100member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    So (just as one example) Virgin mobile who currently do not sell the iPhone, are exaggerating the 'problem' in the call centres to persuade people to buy competing phones. Fuelling the hysteria. Same goes for any call center of any competing network anywhere in the world no doubt.



    You gotta be pretty damn stupid to not take advantage of this if you are a competitor...



    It is common every day business practise. NOT paranoia! lol



    Exactly.



    I know a person who worked for Vodafone 2 yrs ago and spreading bad rumors was his daytime job for 3 months when iPhone 3G came out exclusively on the competing carrier.



    As a result, the iPhone 3G's "reception problems" broke the national daily news then.



    It was a real hype then and by now everyone has totally forgotten it.



    With iPhone 4 it's starting all over again - and worse because the stakes are higher.



    As long as iPhone 4's sales are held down by supply issues in the first place, Apple will only have time on their side concerning this reception nonsense, because happy customers telling their friends about it work way better than any pr stunt by anyone.
  • Reply 116 of 192
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post


    "1) They acknowledged one problem, the bars display algorithm but did so in a less than honest manner."

    Bullshit. By definition, that's your opinion, since I don't share it.

    "2) They failed to acknowledge the more significant problem of actual signal degradation."

    Again, bullshit. They said there was an issue of the phone was held a certain way. And so it is WITH ANY CELL PHONE.

    "3) The only communications, up until the Letter, was to informally say users were holding it wrong. That is just insulting."

    Steve Jobs shot his mouth off. What's new? Live with it.

    "4) They are actively wiping any trace of the Consumers Report review from the support pages."

    Whatever, if true.

    "5) After respected publications like AnandTech and CR publish widely read articles about the antenna problem(s) there is still no comment."

    Again, bullshit. They've said a fix is in the works. And CR's punk "report" with zero documentation just isn't worth responding to. AnandTech's report, on the other hand, was far more balanced and didn't require any comment.

    "Exactly what would they have to do for you to see it as a bunker mentality? If they start sand bagging 1 Infinite Loop, will that convince you?"

    Oh, how I wish I could make light of this issue like you and CR with their "duct tape" crap. But as a stock-holder I don't take it lightly.

    Fortunately, I know how to take the long view, and I realize that this is anti-Apple forces trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Before long, it'll blow over and the irresistable force that is Apple will continue to steamroll the lock-step, dyed-in-the-wool, never-have-an-original-idea wanna-be's into oblivion, where they belong.



    1) You might not 'share' my opinion of the facts, but that doesn't change the facts. When they said they were surprised that they were over reporting the signal strength, yet 2 years ago they released a fix that explicitly changed the bar display to report higher signal, how you you not see that as 'less than honest'?



    2) Are you being intentional obtuse? They acknowledged only that the bars drop and stated this was essentially a bug cause by over reporting (ignoring that they previously said it was a fix). They DID NOT acknowledge the issue of touching the band, which is a completely different issue. Do you get that? It is a different issue.



    3) Stated simply to demonstrate another aspect of their bunker mentality over this issue. Which you tried to claim didn't exist. BTW, the earth is round.



    4) That pretty much sums up your entire thought process with any issues raised about Apple. "Whatever, if true", indeed.



    5) Umm, ok. Since both dealt with an issue that Apple has NOT acknowledged, your entire argument is flawed. Maybe it isn't intentional. Maybe you are confused and really think they were about the bars display issue that Apple did discuss. For those more rooted in reality, we know they are distinct issue.



    Fuck the stock holders. I have some Apple stock. So what? This is a product issue. Asshole stockholders that want companies to ignore/hide/coverup product issues are just that, assholes. Responsible shareholders care about more than just the bottom line.



    You like to accuse anyone that discusses an issue with Apple or Apple products of being whiners. Yet all you ever do on these boards is whine about other people discussing Apple. Perhaps you should take your own advice. If you don't like it, maybe stop reading the boards. If you feel it is negatively affecting your shares, consider dropping your stock so you don't have to whine about the whiners anymore.
  • Reply 117 of 192
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    There will be NO recall.





    If you don't like the phone, RETURN IT.




    Oh my god.



    You're the same brain-surgeon who's been posting this over and over again at MacRumors.



    dogie678

    macrumors member



    Join Date: Jun 2010

    \t

    There will be NO recall.



    If you don't like your phone, RETURN it.




    And would you believe it, there's a "davesw" that was banned from MacRumors recently.



  • Reply 118 of 192
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    Lesson for Apple: Always perform a final test with a product in its final form (no 3GS case disguises!).



    Lesson for Us: Never be the first to buy any new product (car, computer, software, cell phone, etc). Let the "day 1 fools" buy it first....wait until the bugs are worked out.



    I am sure that Apple tested the phone without the 3GS disguise case. If it can occur to a layperson that having an exposed antenna can affect signal, then I am certain it occurred to Apple engineers as well. So that leaves us with two possibilities, Apple knew about the issue and chose (for whatever reason) to ignore it or they don't think there's an issue.
  • Reply 119 of 192
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post


    Yeah, right. Then don't buy one.



    Too late. I already did. You know why? Because all the Kool Aid drinking fanbois here said there was no problem with the antenna.



    Thanks a lot.



    Actually I have darn near everything Apple Inc makes, so I had no reason to think they would screw up the forth incarnation of a hit product.
  • Reply 120 of 192
    scafe2scafe2 Posts: 61member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    Doesn't a simple coating on the pieces in question fix the problem? They need to fix it and recall the ones that are already out in the wild. Steve's obsession for denouncing any limitations or flaws in Apple's products is growing old...



    I agree and i wish people would stop promoting the idea of Apple giving away free bumpers as a solution, have you seen the bumpers, they look pants,,.. !

    Come on Apple sort this out
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