No, I do not have an issue with my iPhone going from 5 bars to No Service from touching the "3G-Spot".
No, I have not said those with an issue are lying. In fact, I come to the defense of those with issues to thosebto the other extreme Jo stated the problem doesn't exist. I used the circumstantial evidence of a comparably excessive number of posters atatingbthey had the issue, as well as well known tech writers, testers and bloggers. I later stated that I've seen the issue happen and did direct comparisons with my phone.
I've also tried to ease the fear and distress by informing iPhone 4 buyers who arent happy with their purchase that they can return it within 30-days risk free (at least in the US). This was well before Apple officially reminded everyone of this fact.
I will buy cases as they serve several purposes, the least of which is to limit signal attenuation. Note that cellphone cases existed long before the iPhone 4.
PS: I still don't have the problem as I write this with only one EDGE bar on version 4.0.1.
"And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade."
I don't think that what you suggest is reasonable:
So, in the next 2-11 months from now (when/if an upgrade is made) anyone who wants should get a free replacement for his iP4?
Yes. The longer Apple takes, the more it will cost them.
Quote:
If Apple had that exposure what would be their incentive to do a redesign before the next iPhone?
Then the next iPhone would constitute the redesign. The incentive is to address a known and demonstrated vulnerability that is unreasonable for the product, and easily remedied at the design level. There's market incentive to get it done quickly. Delaying will be harmful to Apple's PR. The free cases are a nice gesture and take the heat off for a time. But a permanent fix for the device itself is still in order.
Quote:
Why should you, or anyone, expect to buy a new car, phone, refrigerator, etc, use if for a period of time (inducing wear and tear), then feel entitled to a replacement when a new design/feature was added?
I'm not talking about a new feature, but a fix of an unfortunate design decision. And it is not from a sense of entitlement. Fixing the vulnerability is in Apple's best long-term interest.
Quote:
Sorry, I just don't understand that mentality!
That's okay.
Quote:
You have a choice:
1) if you have already bought the iPhone 4 return it or encase it (free)-- those are the options on the table
2) if you have not bought an iPhone-- see it for what it is, and decide to buy or not.
Or, if you are interested, I will lease you an iPhone 4, with an upgrade option (up to, but not including iPhone 5), for, say, $290 up front, and $90 a month for 11 months (off the top of my head).
Something like that would be more practical and a more sound business proposition that what you are asking of Apple.
.
What's on the table today is not what's on the table in September. Things change, just as Apple's stance has changed from "Just don't hold it in that manner". They realized the PR of "don't hold it that way" isn't what they want. Apple sells high-end devices and has created a public perception of top quality. That's a cachet that is very hard to earn, and very easy to lose. And they have a whole lot more competition in the smartphone market these days. A complete fix that is above reproach, is worth whatever it takes.
Again, I feel that a complete removal of the vulnerability (for those customers who want it), is in Apple's best interests.
Here's a picture from the Apple website showing the grip that gives problems with the iPhone 4. It doesn't look very natural to me.
We disagree. I just picked up my phone in the usual way. My grip is almost exactly like that, held in my left hand so I can use my right hand to interact with the screen. Okay, I don't block the screen with my fingers, but still essentially the same in term of contact points.
Yeah, that's crazy talk. I don't think he's here for a genuine, honest discussion, though.
I've bought tens of thousands of dollars of Apple's products. I want to see them succeed and keep up the good work. Take care of the customer, just like Steve says. They're still working on it. When they come up with a solution, the best course, imho, is to make it available to anyone who wants it. Keep the customer happy and they will keep coming back. The lost revenue will come back 10-fold. Apple's biggest asset is their reputation. "Insanely Great!" isn't something achieved with half measures.
$10 for those bumpers? You're kidding me right. They have machines in China pump those things from a mold faster than you can type. I'd say $1 each is about right.
You obviously have never owned a manufacturing business or completely understand product cost. You need to consider many elements, amortized cost of design, tooling, marketing, cost for packaging, shipping, handling, cost of sales not to mention lost revenue now that potentially millions will be given away free. I guarantee that they cost more than $1.
"We've been working our butts off for the last 22 days and here's what we know about the problem..." Reminds me of BP's response to the oil spill.
"Do we have a fix? No, not really, but here's a bunch of evidence that says it's not our fault and it's not that big of a problem". HMMM?
Anyway, at this point the trick is that they made compromises for the design. Is the design going to change? No Probably not. The phone is not defective, merely flawed. Are there "fixes" yes, but it requires the user to change their habits, utilize a bumper/ skin/ case or downgrade their service and use edge networking.
Is that satisfactory? For some. I don't have to use a "monkey paw death grip" per se but I admit, I hold the phone cupped in the palm of my hand like your "not supposed to". I use my thumb to navigate apps most of the time, which is clearly how the device was intended to be used; cupped in the palm of your hand, stable and navigated with the thumb. Using two hands to use the Iphone is silly and holding it in my finger tips forces me to 1) use two hands and 2) look like a girl when use it. Could be a problem.
I do use skins so that will probably help. Am I ok with edge for most things? Yeah, not a heavy bandwidth user and I still have a 1G iphone so not a real disappointment, hopefully I won't have too, but I'll have a better battery life anyway. The processor is much faster, the camera is way better, the screens kicks ass, facetime is great for the family and i get GPS, and motion sensors too.
I look forward to upgrading just so I can assess the problem from my own anecdotal experience. I think this is much less of a problem than it's being publicized as. I doubt Apple's covering anything up and given their ethos it sounds like Apple made compromises and somewhat "dictatorial" decisions to make it a better device as a whole. Pretty typical of them and this time their arrogance bit them in the ass.
Competitors got wind of the short comings and used it to their advantage. What's the only attack point in Apple's iphone armor? Obviously it's not the screen, the apps, not the design or the battery life or the processor or the OS or anything else you can think of. It's the antenna and now they've got some work to do cleaning up their previously untarnished image.
I like Apple products because I like their balance in product design, so I'll probably enjoy the new iphone despite the compromise to the antenna. Everything else is top notch. Next time though Apple, don't be so arrogant to assume people will change their habits for you and don't ever underestimate the medias fascination with building someone up just so they can take you down.
I've bought tens of thousands of dollars of Apple's products. I want to see them succeed and keep up the good work. Take care of the customer, just like Steve says. They're still working on it. When they come up with a solution, the best course, imho, is to make it available to anyone who wants it. Keep the customer happy and they will keep coming back. The lost revenue will come back 10-fold. Apple's biggest asset is their reputation. "Insanely Great!" isn't something achieved with half measures.
So, is all that crazy talk?
Yeah, completely and utterly insane. That's like saying, after buying a MacBook Pro, you should get the next gen one for free because it might be better. That sure would make customers happy, but it's crazy to think it's reasonable.
If you're worried there might be a better one coming, return the one you bought while you're in the return period and buy the next one.
As much as I think all the people complaining are useless whiners, those that *don't* think there is a problem (like me) who then turn around and get their free bumper are lower than pond scum IMO.
I think that Apple should make the free bumpers a different color from the old ones (maybe Zune brown), with the words WHINER stamped all around the edge.
Yeah, completely and utterly insane. That's like saying, after buying a MacBook Pro, you should get the next gen one for free because it might be better. That sure would make customers happy, but it's crazy to think it's reasonable.
If you're worried there might be a better one coming, return the one you bought while you're in the return period and buy the next one.
Bad analogy. We're not talking about getting a next-gen product for free. We're talking about fixing a flaw and what should be a minor revision. A better analogy would be, after buying a MacBook Pro that reboots if you touch the wrong spot on the handrest, you should get a fully-functional MacBook Pro. Does the first one work? Yes. Can you avoid touching the spot? Yes. Can you cover up the spot with a doily so it doesn't short out? Yes. Should you have to put up with it? NO. Does Apple want to become known as a company that expects the user to put a doily on the handrest? No.
I think you're hung up on this idea that somebody somewhere might get "something for nothing". And they might. Cost of doing business the right way. When I make a mistake people expect me to fix it. And not with band aids.
I really wanted to support Apple in this thing, and I was finally ready to leave Verizon for AT&T when the iPhone 4 came out. But I am disappointed with what appears to be an obvious design flaw in the iPhone 4 and Apple's weak response. In my opinion the Newsweek story nailed it:
Apple CEO Steve Jobs came up with a two-part solution. Part 1: There is no problem. Part 2: Even though there is no problem, we?re going to give everyone a free case, which should insulate the antenna and prevent the interference that we just told you isn?t actually occurring. But if you?re still not happy, you can give back the phone for a full refund. Jobs?s snotty tone made it clear that he was pretty fed up with all the whining about a problem that he says doesn?t exist.
Regarding the design flaw:
Quote:
?No other phone has ever put an electrically active antenna on the exterior of the device,? says Richard Gaywood, a wireless-networking engineer.
Apple shouldn't have done it either. It's that simple.
I was on a boat about to go wakeboarding. Oh well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha10711
I really wanted to support Apple in this thing, and I was finally ready to leave Verizon for AT&T when the iPhone 4 came out. But I am disappointed with what appears to be an obvious design flaw in the iPhone 4 and Apple's weak response. In my opinion the Newsweek story nailed it:
Apple CEO Steve Jobs came up with a two-part solution. Part 1: There is no problem. Part 2: Even though there is no problem, we’re going to give everyone a free case, which should insulate the antenna and prevent the interference that we just told you isn’t actually occurring. But if you’re still not happy, you can give back the phone for a full refund. Jobs’s snotty tone made it clear that he was pretty fed up with all the whining about a problem that he says doesn’t exist.
Regarding the design flaw:
Quote:
No other phone has ever put an electrically active antenna on the exterior of the device,” says Richard Gaywood, a wireless-networking engineer.
Apple shouldn't have done it either. It's that simple.
“That’s the way we’ve always done it so that’s the way it should always be done.” is a winning philosophy¡ Awesome way to live your life¡ Who cares about the better signal strength compared to other phones in most cases or their ability to reduce the size while adding more to the design. I guess that is all pointless so long as don’t ever change anything¡
So all of you who stated here that you never had issues with attenuation( Solipsism, etc. ), won't be
getting the free case, right? Right.. that's what I thought.
Why? I've always been planning on getting a case...just to keep the phone from being scratched. Probably a better one than the cheapo one they'll be giving away...
I wished Microsoft gave away a working copy of Vista
They did, it was during a promo in 2007.
That's how I got my copy of Vista Business.
As far as Apple, just more hubris. "There is no problem, but here's a free case so shut up. Our phone is the most advanced smartphone, yet it has attenuation issues like other some other smartphones." And why only until Sept. 30th?
It's a band-aid. Prettier than nail polish or electrical tape, but you shouldn't need to use a case in some environments, especially if you don't want to use one. I prefer a naked phone.
And did you miss the fact that 4 has slightly more dropped calls than 3GS?
What we don't know is if some of the additional dropped calls are made in areas where a 3GS couldn't even make or receive a call to begin with. Statistics can be played from many angles.
Comments
No, I do not have an issue with my iPhone going from 5 bars to No Service from touching the "3G-Spot".
No, I have not said those with an issue are lying. In fact, I come to the defense of those with issues to thosebto the other extreme Jo stated the problem doesn't exist. I used the circumstantial evidence of a comparably excessive number of posters atatingbthey had the issue, as well as well known tech writers, testers and bloggers. I later stated that I've seen the issue happen and did direct comparisons with my phone.
I've also tried to ease the fear and distress by informing iPhone 4 buyers who arent happy with their purchase that they can return it within 30-days risk free (at least in the US). This was well before Apple officially reminded everyone of this fact.
I will buy cases as they serve several purposes, the least of which is to limit signal attenuation. Note that cellphone cases existed long before the iPhone 4.
PS: I still don't have the problem as I write this with only one EDGE bar on version 4.0.1.
Well... you made a lot of typing mistakes
.
"And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade."
I don't think that what you suggest is reasonable:
So, in the next 2-11 months from now (when/if an upgrade is made) anyone who wants should get a free replacement for his iP4?
Yes. The longer Apple takes, the more it will cost them.
If Apple had that exposure what would be their incentive to do a redesign before the next iPhone?
Then the next iPhone would constitute the redesign. The incentive is to address a known and demonstrated vulnerability that is unreasonable for the product, and easily remedied at the design level. There's market incentive to get it done quickly. Delaying will be harmful to Apple's PR. The free cases are a nice gesture and take the heat off for a time. But a permanent fix for the device itself is still in order.
Why should you, or anyone, expect to buy a new car, phone, refrigerator, etc, use if for a period of time (inducing wear and tear), then feel entitled to a replacement when a new design/feature was added?
I'm not talking about a new feature, but a fix of an unfortunate design decision. And it is not from a sense of entitlement. Fixing the vulnerability is in Apple's best long-term interest.
Sorry, I just don't understand that mentality!
That's okay.
You have a choice:
1) if you have already bought the iPhone 4 return it or encase it (free)-- those are the options on the table
2) if you have not bought an iPhone-- see it for what it is, and decide to buy or not.
Or, if you are interested, I will lease you an iPhone 4, with an upgrade option (up to, but not including iPhone 5), for, say, $290 up front, and $90 a month for 11 months (off the top of my head).
Something like that would be more practical and a more sound business proposition that what you are asking of Apple.
.
What's on the table today is not what's on the table in September. Things change, just as Apple's stance has changed from "Just don't hold it in that manner". They realized the PR of "don't hold it that way" isn't what they want. Apple sells high-end devices and has created a public perception of top quality. That's a cachet that is very hard to earn, and very easy to lose. And they have a whole lot more competition in the smartphone market these days. A complete fix that is above reproach, is worth whatever it takes.
Again, I feel that a complete removal of the vulnerability (for those customers who want it), is in Apple's best interests.
Here's a picture from the Apple website showing the grip that gives problems with the iPhone 4. It doesn't look very natural to me.
We disagree. I just picked up my phone in the usual way. My grip is almost exactly like that, held in my left hand so I can use my right hand to interact with the screen. Okay, I don't block the screen with my fingers, but still essentially the same in term of contact points.
Yeah, that's crazy talk. I don't think he's here for a genuine, honest discussion, though.
I've bought tens of thousands of dollars of Apple's products. I want to see them succeed and keep up the good work. Take care of the customer, just like Steve says. They're still working on it. When they come up with a solution, the best course, imho, is to make it available to anyone who wants it. Keep the customer happy and they will keep coming back. The lost revenue will come back 10-fold. Apple's biggest asset is their reputation. "Insanely Great!" isn't something achieved with half measures.
So, is all that crazy talk?
$10 for those bumpers? You're kidding me right. They have machines in China pump those things from a mold faster than you can type. I'd say $1 each is about right.
You obviously have never owned a manufacturing business or completely understand product cost. You need to consider many elements, amortized cost of design, tooling, marketing, cost for packaging, shipping, handling, cost of sales not to mention lost revenue now that potentially millions will be given away free. I guarantee that they cost more than $1.
"Do we have a fix? No, not really, but here's a bunch of evidence that says it's not our fault and it's not that big of a problem". HMMM?
Anyway, at this point the trick is that they made compromises for the design. Is the design going to change? No Probably not. The phone is not defective, merely flawed. Are there "fixes" yes, but it requires the user to change their habits, utilize a bumper/ skin/ case or downgrade their service and use edge networking.
Is that satisfactory? For some. I don't have to use a "monkey paw death grip" per se but I admit, I hold the phone cupped in the palm of my hand like your "not supposed to". I use my thumb to navigate apps most of the time, which is clearly how the device was intended to be used; cupped in the palm of your hand, stable and navigated with the thumb. Using two hands to use the Iphone is silly and holding it in my finger tips forces me to 1) use two hands and 2) look like a girl when use it. Could be a problem.
I do use skins so that will probably help. Am I ok with edge for most things? Yeah, not a heavy bandwidth user and I still have a 1G iphone so not a real disappointment, hopefully I won't have too, but I'll have a better battery life anyway. The processor is much faster, the camera is way better, the screens kicks ass, facetime is great for the family and i get GPS, and motion sensors too.
I look forward to upgrading just so I can assess the problem from my own anecdotal experience. I think this is much less of a problem than it's being publicized as. I doubt Apple's covering anything up and given their ethos it sounds like Apple made compromises and somewhat "dictatorial" decisions to make it a better device as a whole. Pretty typical of them and this time their arrogance bit them in the ass.
Competitors got wind of the short comings and used it to their advantage. What's the only attack point in Apple's iphone armor? Obviously it's not the screen, the apps, not the design or the battery life or the processor or the OS or anything else you can think of. It's the antenna and now they've got some work to do cleaning up their previously untarnished image.
I like Apple products because I like their balance in product design, so I'll probably enjoy the new iphone despite the compromise to the antenna. Everything else is top notch. Next time though Apple, don't be so arrogant to assume people will change their habits for you and don't ever underestimate the medias fascination with building someone up just so they can take you down.
I've bought tens of thousands of dollars of Apple's products. I want to see them succeed and keep up the good work. Take care of the customer, just like Steve says. They're still working on it. When they come up with a solution, the best course, imho, is to make it available to anyone who wants it. Keep the customer happy and they will keep coming back. The lost revenue will come back 10-fold. Apple's biggest asset is their reputation. "Insanely Great!" isn't something achieved with half measures.
So, is all that crazy talk?
Yeah, completely and utterly insane. That's like saying, after buying a MacBook Pro, you should get the next gen one for free because it might be better. That sure would make customers happy, but it's crazy to think it's reasonable.
If you're worried there might be a better one coming, return the one you bought while you're in the return period and buy the next one.
No antenna fix. The most likely scenario is that a case would be included in the iPhone 4G package.
not cost effective.....
As much as I think all the people complaining are useless whiners, those that *don't* think there is a problem (like me) who then turn around and get their free bumper are lower than pond scum IMO.
I think that Apple should make the free bumpers a different color from the old ones (maybe Zune brown), with the words WHINER stamped all around the edge.
Yeah, completely and utterly insane. That's like saying, after buying a MacBook Pro, you should get the next gen one for free because it might be better. That sure would make customers happy, but it's crazy to think it's reasonable.
If you're worried there might be a better one coming, return the one you bought while you're in the return period and buy the next one.
Bad analogy. We're not talking about getting a next-gen product for free. We're talking about fixing a flaw and what should be a minor revision. A better analogy would be, after buying a MacBook Pro that reboots if you touch the wrong spot on the handrest, you should get a fully-functional MacBook Pro. Does the first one work? Yes. Can you avoid touching the spot? Yes. Can you cover up the spot with a doily so it doesn't short out? Yes. Should you have to put up with it? NO. Does Apple want to become known as a company that expects the user to put a doily on the handrest? No.
I think you're hung up on this idea that somebody somewhere might get "something for nothing". And they might. Cost of doing business the right way. When I make a mistake people expect me to fix it. And not with band aids.
Videos: death grip on EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k
* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/16/apple-s-rotten-reponse.html?from=rss
Apple CEO Steve Jobs came up with a two-part solution. Part 1: There is no problem. Part 2: Even though there is no problem, we?re going to give everyone a free case, which should insulate the antenna and prevent the interference that we just told you isn?t actually occurring. But if you?re still not happy, you can give back the phone for a full refund. Jobs?s snotty tone made it clear that he was pretty fed up with all the whining about a problem that he says doesn?t exist.
Regarding the design flaw:
?No other phone has ever put an electrically active antenna on the exterior of the device,? says Richard Gaywood, a wireless-networking engineer.
Apple shouldn't have done it either. It's that simple.
Well... you made a lot of typing mistakes
I really wanted to support Apple in this thing, and I was finally ready to leave Verizon for AT&T when the iPhone 4 came out. But I am disappointed with what appears to be an obvious design flaw in the iPhone 4 and Apple's weak response. In my opinion the Newsweek story nailed it:
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/16/apple-s-rotten-reponse.html?from=rss
Apple CEO Steve Jobs came up with a two-part solution. Part 1: There is no problem. Part 2: Even though there is no problem, we’re going to give everyone a free case, which should insulate the antenna and prevent the interference that we just told you isn’t actually occurring. But if you’re still not happy, you can give back the phone for a full refund. Jobs’s snotty tone made it clear that he was pretty fed up with all the whining about a problem that he says doesn’t exist.
Regarding the design flaw:
No other phone has ever put an electrically active antenna on the exterior of the device,” says Richard Gaywood, a wireless-networking engineer.
Apple shouldn't have done it either. It's that simple.
“That’s the way we’ve always done it so that’s the way it should always be done.” is a winning philosophy¡ Awesome way to live your life¡ Who cares about the better signal strength compared to other phones in most cases or their ability to reduce the size while adding more to the design. I guess that is all pointless so long as don’t ever change anything¡
So all of you who stated here that you never had issues with attenuation( Solipsism, etc. ), won't be
getting the free case, right? Right.. that's what I thought.
Why? I've always been planning on getting a case...just to keep the phone from being scratched. Probably a better one than the cheapo one they'll be giving away...
I wished Microsoft gave away a working copy of Vista
They did, it was during a promo in 2007.
That's how I got my copy of Vista Business.
As far as Apple, just more hubris. "There is no problem, but here's a free case so shut up. Our phone is the most advanced smartphone, yet it has attenuation issues like other some other smartphones." And why only until Sept. 30th?
It's a band-aid. Prettier than nail polish or electrical tape, but you shouldn't need to use a case in some environments, especially if you don't want to use one. I prefer a naked phone.
And did you miss the fact that 4 has slightly more dropped calls than 3GS?
What we don't know is if some of the additional dropped calls are made in areas where a 3GS couldn't even make or receive a call to begin with. Statistics can be played from many angles.
HTC, Motorola, Google and Samsung should all give away free cases.
Videos: death grip on EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k
* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
Good stuff! You should post this list on every forum.