Is that an Apple issue or an AT&T issue? I mean Steve had the theory about less cases, but at the same time we're dealing with a network that just had 3 million and counting iPhones added to it in a few days.. and AT&T reception wasn't that great to begin with..
I know I'll be buying one the day it gets to Canada. Judging by the massive wait times it doesn't look like things are slowing down in the US anytime soon. IS there anyone here who has actually changed their mind and decided not to buy an iPhone 4 or to return the one they have because of this antenna weak spot issue?
I'm so glad Apple held a press conference and cleared up any misunderstandings so there would be no further fighting and bickering!
Over 130 posts and counting. Ye who make up the AI forum are unmatched in your ability to make a big deal out of nothing. You are all pathetic fanbois. Have some more Kool Aid and keep posting. Don't leave your grandmother's basement and chase a ball or anything.
Bye.
PS The iPhone 4 is doomed!
Increased antenna performance design per Apple and reader responses, but X marks the spot where you will decrease its superior performance if you bridge it. Small effort on the part of the user to avoid dropped calls in low bandwidth areas.
Is that an Apple issue or an AT&T issue? I mean Steve had the theory about less cases, but at the same time we're dealing with a network that just had 3 million and counting iPhones added to it in a few days.. and AT&T reception wasn't that great to begin with..
It's hard to know how many phones were added to AT&Ts network, since no doubt many iPhone 4s are replacing older iPhones or other phones on AT&T.
Apple Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality, They're Attempting To Appease The Masses Until They Can Re-Engineer A Real Solution, and Pointing Out (alleged) Issues With Competing Handsets Doesn't Help..
Note: Rubber Bandages To Cover Up The Flaw Is Not A Real Solution -
At this point, they're defending themselves in the media & the blogosphere, which have jumped on and repeated the allegations made by CR and others who have spun it into "Antennagate." If by "The Masses" you mean the 99.45% of iPhone 4 owners who are not complaining or the millions of others who are trying to buy one, then no, I don't think they need to be "appeased."
And, contrary to what you say, I think it has helped to remind the public that you can hold any cell phone in a way that affects signal strength. Apple wasn't picking on RIM or Nokia, just using some well known competing brands to illustrate their point, which is that all phones are affected.
The "Rubber Bandages" aren't a cover up for anything, because I can use my iPhone 4 just fine without it. I went to lunch on Wednesday with 3 other guys who also have iPhone 4s, and none of us need "rubber bandages" because none of us have experienced the alleged issues.
The only real flaw is that Apple's signal bars were so wrongly calculated that it would show a 5-to-1 bar drop if you were in an area with a marginal signal which was erroneously being reported as 5 bars.
By the way, having seen in the bottom of your post that you are waiting until October for a hardware fix, what sort of thing will you consider a "fix"?
I can't see how they can stop the attenuation effects of your hand being close to the antenna, unless they put it inside the phone, and I don't see them changing the appearance of the phone at the moment.
Detuning an attenuation are not the same thing. They said bumpers until September 30th because they'll change the antenna in some way by then. I can wait, and I will.
NEWSFLASH - Del Monte Foods, maker of Contadina brand tomato products, acknowledged today that reception of its backyard tomato can telephones has been adversely affected for decades by the use of the wrong kind of string that connects them.
"It appears that millions of innocent children have had difficulty hearing each other because the science of sound transmission between two cans over a taut length of string has not been sufficiently investigated," said a source who asked to remain anonymous because he is not authorized to speak for the company.
A study of the audio transmission issue reveals that the problem may not be confined to Contadina. but afflicts the entire global canned tomato industry, the source went on. "Other variables have a much greater effect on sound quality, including the common use of softly woven cotton kitchen string and the lack of tension in the string as a consequence of how the users hold their cans and stretch the string."
News media and Internet rumor sites are expected to be flooded in the next few days with raging disagreements about whether tomato producers, and Contadina in particular, have knowingly concealed the problem. In response to media inquiries, a Contadina competitor - ConAgra-owned Hunt's - angrily disputed "Contadina's unacceptable attempt to draw Hunt's into their self-made debacle."
Reports are circulating that, for a limited period, Contadina will be willing to provide children with free 50# monofilament fishing line as a substitute for string or twine. Contadina officials thus far have declined to respond to the reports.
I think it was self-censored. Something about the kid having damaged the phone according to the comments. Regardless all phones get some sort of loss, video isn't really necessary to prove it.
So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?
I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.
In several threads (there have been so many) in the past 21 days, some posters identified a potential 3G to Edge handoff issue. One poster said that he lived in a marginal area.
He could make 3G calls with his 3GS, but they would usually drop to Edge.
With his iP4 he would make the call with 3G. Then (to paraphrase) the iP4 really really tried to hang on to the 3G connection-- when it couldn't, it dropped the call (never handing off to Edge). He said it was repeatable.
His workaround was to turn the 3G radio off. No dropped calls.
A case would not have helped, because he could do this with the iP4 sitting on the desktop.
Several others reported similar problems, but they were drowned out by the feeding frenzy.
It is my understanding that:
-- both the 3G (if on) and Edge radios poll every n seconds to acquire a signal (using software/firmware)
-- software evaluates the signal strength for each radio
-- based on the evaluation the software chooses which connection to use-- with 3G given priority over Edge.
-- the polling and evaluation of signal strength go on continuously,
-- If the iOS software detects a week signal it will try and hand off to the other radio before dropping the call
-- normally this would be 3G degrading (being handed off ) to Edge.
-- If the 3G signal regains strength, a upgrade handoff is made to 3G.
-- the handoff/switch over may take a second or so.
-- there are built-in averaging algorithms and delays to prevent constant switching between radios,
So, there is a possibiliy of a cell radio hardware, firmware or software bug/defect.
Consider that the iP4 adds a new radio band and uses completely different cell radio chips than any prior iPhone. There seems to be potential exposure here-- different drivers, different signal values, different evaluation algorithms, and different software for switching,
This, also, could be the reason that Apple removed the Field Test-- it didn't work with the new chips.
I certainly am no expert, here, but this is the most reasonable explanation I can come up with for dropped calls being different on the iP4 than the 3GS.
Anecdotally: I live about 60 miles East of San Francisco -- AT&T 3G coverage is pretty good -- about 3-4 bars after the 4.0.1 update (solid 5 bars before). About a week after I got my iP4 I called a friend in Boston. She has a 3GS. We talked for about an hour and the call was dropped about 4 times (I had never experienced a dropped call before). The odd thing, is that my iP4 never lost connection (you could hear the open connection). After a few seconds (say, 10-15), my friends voice would come back on the line and she would apologize "that's AT&T". After we ended the call (normally), she emailed me that she couldn't call out on her 3GS, at all, Weird!
I think it was self-censored. Something about the kid having damaged the phone according to the comments. Regardless all phones get some sort of loss, video isn't really necessary to prove it.
yeah right....."self-censored"...he accidentailly damaged the phone. haha. right...
how about the videos for Droid Incredible? EVO? the Nexus One?
i'm bored and it's 94 degrees and it's hot and humid as hell. comparing my nyc 94 to arizona's 94 still wont make me want to move.
so what we need for a little boredom relief, is an app that would let you deliver a small electric charge to anybody disagreeing with you or making false statements. if they were anti apple, the charge would be a little stronger.
I am an Apple and Steve Jobs fan, but disappointed at how this "Antennagate" was handled.
First, Steve was a conceited in his tone, and it just goes along with the hubris from Apple lately.
Second, their trying to dilute the antenna problem by saying it affects the rest of the industry is a far cry from their philosophy when they launched the iPhone. Instead of saying that all other phones suffer from it, they should have offered an "Apple" approach. Remember how the IPhone is so much better than the other phones, in so many aspects. Well, why play that card now that all the other phones suck, and so why can't ours. They shouldn't even mention that. If people didn't notice that the other phones suffer from the same thing don't even mention it. Just make yours even better than the rest. All of a sudden we're comparing the iPhone to the rest when up until now it was always a step above. This is no excuse. This should have been discovered and addressed in testing. Even if it wasn't a problem, someone should have anticipated and been prepared for this media blowing it out of proportion, and have an answer at the ready.
It goes to show that nobody is perfect, not even when it comes to their bread-and-butter product (like Microsoft with Vista, and this, Apple and the iPhone).
Sure, they're not perfect, but they have an attitude like they are. They made everyone expect much better from them than everybody else. Then live up to that.
Great post.
This is Apple's "Toyota Moment". They set themselves up as infallible (which nobody is), then utterly blew their management of a PR debacle.
And in the worst of things, even Toyota didn't resort to putting themselves on par with their competition (i.e. "But GM and Ford cars have problems too!").
Anyway I fully agree: face up to the problem, fix it, and get on with life. Don't cop out by lowering yourself to the rest of the industry.
Comments
iphone 4 drops more call than iphone 3GS. this is not my judgement this is what one of yesterdays topic on this forum.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...phone_3gs.html
Is that an Apple issue or an AT&T issue? I mean Steve had the theory about less cases, but at the same time we're dealing with a network that just had 3 million and counting iPhones added to it in a few days.. and AT&T reception wasn't that great to begin with..
I know I'll be buying one the day it gets to Canada. Judging by the massive wait times it doesn't look like things are slowing down in the US anytime soon. IS there anyone here who has actually changed their mind and decided not to buy an iPhone 4 or to return the one they have because of this antenna weak spot issue?
.
Here's a universal case that fits any smart phone with antenna problems:
Most users will avoid gripping it, altogether!
.
So Dick, since you presumably live in the East Bay, does that make you an Athletics supporter?
I'm so glad Apple held a press conference and cleared up any misunderstandings so there would be no further fighting and bickering!
Over 130 posts and counting. Ye who make up the AI forum are unmatched in your ability to make a big deal out of nothing. You are all pathetic fanbois. Have some more Kool Aid and keep posting. Don't leave your grandmother's basement and chase a ball or anything.
Bye.
PS The iPhone 4 is doomed!
Increased antenna performance design per Apple and reader responses, but X marks the spot where you will decrease its superior performance if you bridge it. Small effort on the part of the user to avoid dropped calls in low bandwidth areas.
Not so much a bad trade off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKIcaejkpD4
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
Is that an Apple issue or an AT&T issue? I mean Steve had the theory about less cases, but at the same time we're dealing with a network that just had 3 million and counting iPhones added to it in a few days.. and AT&T reception wasn't that great to begin with..
It's hard to know how many phones were added to AT&Ts network, since no doubt many iPhone 4s are replacing older iPhones or other phones on AT&T.
Don't panic if you come early ? just have another go
Bottom Line:
Apple Screwed Up By Choosing Aesthetics Over Functionality, They're Attempting To Appease The Masses Until They Can Re-Engineer A Real Solution, and Pointing Out (alleged) Issues With Competing Handsets Doesn't Help..
Note: Rubber Bandages To Cover Up The Flaw Is Not A Real Solution -
At this point, they're defending themselves in the media & the blogosphere, which have jumped on and repeated the allegations made by CR and others who have spun it into "Antennagate." If by "The Masses" you mean the 99.45% of iPhone 4 owners who are not complaining or the millions of others who are trying to buy one, then no, I don't think they need to be "appeased."
And, contrary to what you say, I think it has helped to remind the public that you can hold any cell phone in a way that affects signal strength. Apple wasn't picking on RIM or Nokia, just using some well known competing brands to illustrate their point, which is that all phones are affected.
The "Rubber Bandages" aren't a cover up for anything, because I can use my iPhone 4 just fine without it. I went to lunch on Wednesday with 3 other guys who also have iPhone 4s, and none of us need "rubber bandages" because none of us have experienced the alleged issues.
The only real flaw is that Apple's signal bars were so wrongly calculated that it would show a 5-to-1 bar drop if you were in an area with a marginal signal which was erroneously being reported as 5 bars.
By the way, having seen in the bottom of your post that you are waiting until October for a hardware fix, what sort of thing will you consider a "fix"?
I can't see how they can stop the attenuation effects of your hand being close to the antenna, unless they put it inside the phone, and I don't see them changing the appearance of the phone at the moment.
Detuning an attenuation are not the same thing. They said bumpers until September 30th because they'll change the antenna in some way by then. I can wait, and I will.
Death Grip on DROID X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFc9v...eature=related
http://forum.androidcentral.com/moto...e-droid-x.html
Well i watched that expecting it to be a video of the droid x not working, then the guy says there is no issue its a mistake with his phone.
Well i watched that expecting it to be a video of the droid x not working, then the guy says there is no issue its a mistake with his phone.
There is an issue.
Verizon PR and Marketing folks in action. Why was the video CENSORED???
here it is again.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
"It appears that millions of innocent children have had difficulty hearing each other because the science of sound transmission between two cans over a taut length of string has not been sufficiently investigated," said a source who asked to remain anonymous because he is not authorized to speak for the company.
A study of the audio transmission issue reveals that the problem may not be confined to Contadina. but afflicts the entire global canned tomato industry, the source went on. "Other variables have a much greater effect on sound quality, including the common use of softly woven cotton kitchen string and the lack of tension in the string as a consequence of how the users hold their cans and stretch the string."
News media and Internet rumor sites are expected to be flooded in the next few days with raging disagreements about whether tomato producers, and Contadina in particular, have knowingly concealed the problem. In response to media inquiries, a Contadina competitor - ConAgra-owned Hunt's - angrily disputed "Contadina's unacceptable attempt to draw Hunt's into their self-made debacle."
Reports are circulating that, for a limited period, Contadina will be willing to provide children with free 50# monofilament fishing line as a substitute for string or twine. Contadina officials thus far have declined to respond to the reports.
There is an issue.
Verizon PR and Marketing folks in action. Why was the video CENSORED???
here it is again.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
I think it was self-censored. Something about the kid having damaged the phone according to the comments. Regardless all phones get some sort of loss, video isn't really necessary to prove it.
LOL
So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?
I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.
In several threads (there have been so many) in the past 21 days, some posters identified a potential 3G to Edge handoff issue. One poster said that he lived in a marginal area.
He could make 3G calls with his 3GS, but they would usually drop to Edge.
With his iP4 he would make the call with 3G. Then (to paraphrase) the iP4 really really tried to hang on to the 3G connection-- when it couldn't, it dropped the call (never handing off to Edge). He said it was repeatable.
His workaround was to turn the 3G radio off. No dropped calls.
A case would not have helped, because he could do this with the iP4 sitting on the desktop.
Several others reported similar problems, but they were drowned out by the feeding frenzy.
It is my understanding that:
-- both the 3G (if on) and Edge radios poll every n seconds to acquire a signal (using software/firmware)
-- software evaluates the signal strength for each radio
-- based on the evaluation the software chooses which connection to use-- with 3G given priority over Edge.
-- the polling and evaluation of signal strength go on continuously,
-- If the iOS software detects a week signal it will try and hand off to the other radio before dropping the call
-- normally this would be 3G degrading (being handed off ) to Edge.
-- If the 3G signal regains strength, a upgrade handoff is made to 3G.
-- the handoff/switch over may take a second or so.
-- there are built-in averaging algorithms and delays to prevent constant switching between radios,
So, there is a possibiliy of a cell radio hardware, firmware or software bug/defect.
Consider that the iP4 adds a new radio band and uses completely different cell radio chips than any prior iPhone. There seems to be potential exposure here-- different drivers, different signal values, different evaluation algorithms, and different software for switching,
This, also, could be the reason that Apple removed the Field Test-- it didn't work with the new chips.
I certainly am no expert, here, but this is the most reasonable explanation I can come up with for dropped calls being different on the iP4 than the 3GS.
Anecdotally: I live about 60 miles East of San Francisco -- AT&T 3G coverage is pretty good -- about 3-4 bars after the 4.0.1 update (solid 5 bars before). About a week after I got my iP4 I called a friend in Boston. She has a 3GS. We talked for about an hour and the call was dropped about 4 times (I had never experienced a dropped call before). The odd thing, is that my iP4 never lost connection (you could hear the open connection). After a few seconds (say, 10-15), my friends voice would come back on the line and she would apologize "that's AT&T". After we ended the call (normally), she emailed me that she couldn't call out on her 3GS, at all, Weird!
.
I think it was self-censored. Something about the kid having damaged the phone according to the comments. Regardless all phones get some sort of loss, video isn't really necessary to prove it.
yeah right....."self-censored"...he accidentailly damaged the phone. haha. right...
how about the videos for Droid Incredible? EVO? the Nexus One?
so what we need for a little boredom relief, is an app that would let you deliver a small electric charge to anybody disagreeing with you or making false statements. if they were anti apple, the charge would be a little stronger.
You've gotta love Nokia. I mean, these guys value function over form, so that their phones are the fugliest on earth, yet the OS is still crap.
Death Grip:
Nokia 5800
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MPY4axjJEk
Nokia 6170
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUvm...eature=related
>>This is a rant<<
I am an Apple and Steve Jobs fan, but disappointed at how this "Antennagate" was handled.
First, Steve was a conceited in his tone, and it just goes along with the hubris from Apple lately.
Second, their trying to dilute the antenna problem by saying it affects the rest of the industry is a far cry from their philosophy when they launched the iPhone. Instead of saying that all other phones suffer from it, they should have offered an "Apple" approach. Remember how the IPhone is so much better than the other phones, in so many aspects. Well, why play that card now that all the other phones suck, and so why can't ours. They shouldn't even mention that. If people didn't notice that the other phones suffer from the same thing don't even mention it. Just make yours even better than the rest. All of a sudden we're comparing the iPhone to the rest when up until now it was always a step above. This is no excuse. This should have been discovered and addressed in testing. Even if it wasn't a problem, someone should have anticipated and been prepared for this media blowing it out of proportion, and have an answer at the ready.
It goes to show that nobody is perfect, not even when it comes to their bread-and-butter product (like Microsoft with Vista, and this, Apple and the iPhone).
Sure, they're not perfect, but they have an attitude like they are. They made everyone expect much better from them than everybody else. Then live up to that.
Great post.
This is Apple's "Toyota Moment". They set themselves up as infallible (which nobody is), then utterly blew their management of a PR debacle.
And in the worst of things, even Toyota didn't resort to putting themselves on par with their competition (i.e. "But GM and Ford cars have problems too!").
Anyway I fully agree: face up to the problem, fix it, and get on with life. Don't cop out by lowering yourself to the rest of the industry.