RIM, Nokia respond to Apple's "Antennagate" press conference

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Comments

  • Reply 241 of 547
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member


    Flogging a dead horse I know, but the difference with iPhone 4 is that you have no choice but to hold the antenna - have any of you missed this? In addition, there appears to be a spot, where when held, can interrupt signal entirely.



    Like Steve said, in a different context, you cannot beat the laws of physics.
  • Reply 242 of 547
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Flogging a dead horse I know, but the difference with iPhone 4 is that you have no choice but to hold the antenna - have any of you missed this?.



    no one missed this. what you are missing is that this appears to meaningfully effect a very very small number of iPhone 4 users, and that remedies are available to them from a free case to full refund.
  • Reply 243 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    No they don't. But they don't tell their users they are holding the device wrong when held naturally either.



    I had a look at those pictures on the Apple site, the person is holding everyone of those phones differently. Apple made a massive mistake, and is now trying to blame everyone for their mistake.



    Do me a favor, use factual data to make comments and do not just use words for sake of it like 'massive'. It does not matter were you grip the phone on other smartphones, the point is the same effect happens. People grip their phones different depending on the design and their personal choice, so i doubt the way the experiments were undertaken in Apple labs are less credible.



    Note: 0.55% of total ATT users registered an issue and return rate is 1/3 of that compared to 3GS.



    Problem is once media fills people brains with garage, they have hard time releasing from the garage and continue to agree with such garage.



    If I had been RIM and Nokia, I would have kept my mouth shut, because saying that its Apple's problem and you know, you have the same issue, well lets all act like ostrich stick our head in the ground.
  • Reply 244 of 547
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member




    Good you posted this.
  • Reply 245 of 547
    daveswdavesw Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    no one missed this. what you are missing is that this appears to meaningfully effect a very very small number of iPhone 4 users, and that remedies are available to them from a free case to full refund.



    absolutely agree.
  • Reply 246 of 547
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    no one missed this. what you are missing is that this appears to meaningfully effect a very very small number of iPhone 4 users, and that remedies are available to them from a free case to full refund.



    Then, what is the point of the endless posting of the same links? What do they prove? That Nokia is clever enough to put their antennas out of the reach of physical contact?
  • Reply 247 of 547
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    Jobs exposed the industry's dirty little secret and now RIM and Nokia are crying about it. They need to fess-up too.



    I think we just have some poor losers, Gizmodo, out there that want to take Apple down a few notches if they can.



    While this may be true, these other companies have Models that dont react that way whereas Apple has only one model that has this problem. Not the same thing.
  • Reply 248 of 547
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    How about posting something constructive for once.



    Click the link:



    http://androidforums.com/



    Begin posting.
  • Reply 249 of 547
    st3v3st3v3 Posts: 63member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davesw View Post


    absolutely agree.



    If you agree, why do you go around posting videos of phones no one on this forum cares about to make a case that "other phones do it too"?
  • Reply 250 of 547
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Then, what is the point of the endless posting of the same links? What do they prove? That Nokia is clever enough to put their antennas out of the reach of physical contact?



    and yet they are subject to the same effect. they even have a warning about it in their documentation. the person posting the link is showing that evidence is out there that all phones are subject to it, to varying degrees, and that no-one is calling out other manufacturers to the extent that they are apple.



    edit: additionally, given that the issue meaningfully effects such a very small number of iPhone 4 users, why is it that whilst "no-one cares about" similar issues with other phones all and sundry seems to care about this issue in apple's phone?
  • Reply 251 of 547
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    99.45% is simply astounding - way to go Apple.
  • Reply 252 of 547
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    The iPhone 4 is the only phone that can go from 5 bars to 0 bars with the touch of a single finger at a small part of the case.



    Apple is right to be criticized for this obvious design flaw. This is not standard attenuation.



    It is standard. With the 4.0.1 update, you can't take the phone from 5 to 0 bars, now that the bars are actually roughly analogous to signal strength. So, your criticism is no longer valid, and was only valid initially because the bar signal display was not analogous to signal strength. In other words, without Apple changing anything on the phone but evening out the signal level across the display of bars, the "problem" went away, because it was never there in the first place.
  • Reply 253 of 547
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    and yet they are subject to the same effect. they even have a warning about it in their documentation. the person posting the link is showing that evidence is out there that all phones are subject to it, to varying degrees, and that no-one is calling out other manufacturers to the extent that they are apple.



    Even still, Apple survived a media blitz that would have brought any other phone manufacturer to its knees.
  • Reply 254 of 547
    paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,380member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coolcat View Post


    It'd be a super easy fix that wouldn't affect the appearance of the phone one bit. They could just apply some clear type of coating to the antennas that will keep our hands from touching them and causing all this BS....Can't believe they didn't do it in the first place when one of their OWN techs voiced concern...



    Unfortunately it's not quite that easy. For the signal loss due to de-tuning of the antenna, yes, some sort of coating would be part of a solution, though a coating over the gap between the two would actually act as a capacitor, which is not a block to RF (it is to dc), so that in itself would de-tune the antenna (you can actually use a capacitor in your antenna circuit to change it's resonant frequency and tune it in). I would imagine they could make some tweaks inside in conjunction to a coating which would alleviate that however. It's 10 years since I did any work on antennas and to be honest my memory is a bit rusty.



    What a clear coating would not help is the attenuating effect of the proximity of your hand. The attenuating effect of your hand is nothing to do with whether or not there is an insulator between your hand and the antenna, more it is to do with the fact that there is something that is mostly water (remember, we're about 70% water) which will happily soak up RF energy and lower the received (and transmitted) signal. The only way around that is to move the antenna away from your hand, which the bumper will do a bit, and moving the antenna inside would do.



    However, from what I've seen (and I admit, I don't have an iPhone 4 to play with, so I'm basing this off the videos I've seen), I suspect this problem is being caused almost entirely by de-tuning, and a coating, coupled with some internal tweaks would resolve it. I'm basing that on the idea that since a bumper does seem to solve the problem, and it only moves your hand a couple of mm away from the antenna, it's not really changing the attenuating effect of your hand, so the fact that it fixes the problem would point to de-tuning being the root cause).



    That said, a clear coating is not exactly straightforward, given it will be going on an area of the phone that is handled/rubbed a lot, and would be sensitive to rubbing off. I'm not saying there is not such a coating out there, and there might be something really easy (I'm not a materials engineer), but I would think it's actually a bit of a challenge.
  • Reply 255 of 547
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Even still, Apple survived a media blitz that would have brought any other phone manufacturer to its knees.



    Yes, and that's a good thing.



    Apple hopefully have learned a lot from this:



    Hopefully, they'll realize this isn't a fight anymore it's a guerrilla war for the new frontier. Hopefully this will remove any complacency and bring the best out in Apple.



    I want to see them forget the brakes, put the pedal to the metal and take those curves like they were cornering on rails
  • Reply 256 of 547
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dillio View Post


    >>This is a rant<<



    I am an Apple and Steve Jobs fan, but disappointed at how this "Antennagate" was handled.



    First, Steve was a conceited in his tone, and it just goes along with the hubris from Apple lately.



    I would have to say that you are extremely poor at reading people if you think SJ was "conceited in his tone." The primary emotion expressed in his body language and tone, throughout the presentation was anger. And the comment about people wanting to tear Apple down was a direct expression of this anger.



    And it's not surprising that he was angry. Apple made a great product with the iP4, and the press, driven into a frenzy by ignorant bloggers and others with an agenda, went completely hysterical criticizing the company over what is essentially a non-issue. You'd be pissed too, and rightly so.
  • Reply 257 of 547
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    The most important thing everyone should take away from this is that smartphones these days are cutting edge and all of them have issues, none are immune.



    The process of finding the right smartphone is just a case of picking your poison.



    It may be wishful thinking but maybe smartphone owners will actually start being nicer to each other after this, because now more than ever it's obvious that your brand new smartphone isn't the "best one", it's just the "best one for you".
  • Reply 258 of 547
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sky_ozone View Post


    iphone 4 drops more call than iphone 3GS. this is not my judgement this is what one of yesterdays topic on this forum.



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...phone_3gs.html



    less than one extra call per hundred. And given that this was AT&T data that they didn't want public, less than one extra call could mean anything between 0 and 1, maybe 0.999, maybe 0.0001, maybe something in the middle, but it's a non-issue, and the actual numbers may not even show statistically significant differences.
  • Reply 259 of 547
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    I'm really surprised at people Apple a pass on the "the others guys do it too" defense.



    It's called being rational.
  • Reply 260 of 547
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    laugh out loud. the stats don't back you up so you resort to this clap-trap. if i spent hundreds of dollars on something that ties me into a contract in which i will spend a couple of thousand dollars more, and face the prospect of using this "faulty" product for 2 years minimum, i'd be calling the manufacturer about the problem immediately. people aren't apathetic when it comes to these amounts of money.



    See you would fall in that 0.55% figure that jobs pulled out. You would be suprised to see the actual number of people that complain about an issue they have.
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