Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
This is true. I can reproduce it with a mere touch. The phone still works great though. With the exception of family and a few friends, I do most of my communication via e-mail and texting. So I haven't noticed too many problems. I did notice worse reception in my home, so I purchased the AT&T MicroCell. However, I think it actually made calls worse.
Seriously though, I think I have benefited from this whole antennagate thing. The companies came out to bash at apple is the ones I will avoid in the future, since they are more comfortable with out right lying than to admit a general fault that is due to laws of physics.
So they all drop signal strength when engulfed in the hand, no surprise. But why keep comparing the meaningless visual display of signal loss to every other phone but only compare the rate of dropped calls to the 3GS?
If Apple wants to silence the critics or show a meaningful comparison show the raw data, not a cheap visual demo that really tells nothing.
Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
But many owners can reproduce the effect, especially when the signal is already low. Many Nokia N97 may claim that they can't reproduce the death grip effect. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeasar
I hold my phone on my left hand and while I hold it only my fingers are in contact with the phone, not my ENTIRE palm. And don't go telling me that Im un-natural.
I never said holding it a different way was un-natural, only that holding it with the seam resting in your palm was a natural way of holding it. There CAN be more than one natural way of holding the phone.
Besides, showing the symptom doesn't require you're entire palm to be in contact with the phone as in the video. All you need is the corner to rest on your palm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin
It is odd that Apple didn't demo the one touch signal drop on other phones, because they exhibit it too. I believe they showed a picture of a non-smart phone that had a sticker on the back "don't touch here" or something. Apple's reasoning is not flawed. Millions are begging the question by assuming there is an issue only with iPhone 4, but it really isn't isolated to Apple's phones.
Here's what's happening.... you touch the death spot, see the signal drop, maybe lose a call... because: the software is reporting more signal than there is, when you touch, seems like more signal is lost, but there wasn't much to begin with... it's an illusion. If a call is dropped, you're in an area of weak cell.
Just TOUCHING a cell phone is enough to detenuate the antenna by -15dB - -20dB of signal... best way to make a phone call in an area of weak cell with any cell phone is to use a headset, preferably bluetooth. Set the phone up high... let it sit 30 seconds, try to make your call, don't touch the phone during the call.
This flame war is like the ones of old. But in the old timey flame wars, it wasn't literally thousands that were fooled by their own cleverness. By NOT observing this in other phones, you believed it didn't exist... but if you were observant enough (like me... I observed this behavior during the first hour I received my first Nokia cell phone in 2001), then you would have realized that Gizmodo wagged the dog. The signal indicator was the hole in everyone's argument, that, and that microwaves are invisible.
Don't let pride make you stupid. Take a look at what that old onion video did today, what Orson Wells did on the radio once,, and ask yourself again if it's not possible that Gizmodo totally stung you.
Show me a video of any of the phones Apple has demoed dropping bars with a single finger touching it. The flaw in Apple's reasoning is the fact that they don't address the skin touching the antenna issue. Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it with one finger.
This is what Apple has done:
They have acknowledged a flaw in their antennas that are common to all cell phones.
They have refused to acknowledge the real problem that sets the iPhone 4 apart. However, they have committed to issuing free bumpers to solve this problem (without fully acknowledging it). When Apple coats the antennas with a clear non-conductive material (which many people suspect they will do), they will be addressing the real problem.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw
good thing apple is doing this. here's a few more.
Videos: death grip on Droid X, EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
apparently a non-issue for 99% of iPhone 4 owners.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
So, "X marks the spot". Wouldn't that argument actually work FOR Apple?
Since it's weak-point is extremely pin-pointed on the black band, a very tiny area relative to the phone, it wouldn't require a large part of your hand to grip it and attenuate the signal. You would just have to consciously avoid touching that very small area, which I think is the real issue for Apple. However, for me, this actually makes the other phones look more prone to signal attenuation since their weak spots seem to be more spread out in a wider area. At least that's how it looks like in the video demonstrations that Apple would like us to believe...
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it with one finger.
They have acknowledged a flaw in their antennas that are common to all cell phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
Well what about those videos that shows no drop in bars even with a full death grip, how do you explain those?
... That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4. ...
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
Someone mentioned that there's regulations on how much energy can go pass the head area, placing the antenna at the bottom complies helps them to comply with the regulations.
I fail to understand the "mistake" associated with the cube
Overpriced by a factor of about three times. It was a decent box and a pretty design, but it was ridiculously expensive for what it offered. Many people said it would fail when it was first announced, and it did, in a big way.
What I fail to understand is if you don't think any mistake was made with the cube, then why did it end up becoming one of apple's biggest failures?
Well what about those videos that shows no drop in bars even with a full death grip, how do you explain those?
If you have really good signal strength, the death grip may drop your signal by 20 or so dB, but it wouldn't show in terms of bars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas. This is compounded by the fact that it happens to be exactly where many people who hold their phones in their left hand put their palms.
Sure, the other phones will show signal loss when you hold it with a death grip cupping your hand over the entire antenna, and the iPhone 4 will do the same thing.
However, I haven't seen any videos of any other phone showing signal loss from one finger touching it. The excuse Apple gives that it "marks the spot" is bullsh!t. No other phone has a spot (marked or unmarked) that has the same symptoms.
And it IS a big deal, since its in a spot that naturally gets touched when holding the phone with your left hand. It doesn't require an awkward grip or huge hands to duplicate.
The bumper does fix this problem, but for Apple to say that the entire industry suffers from the same problem is a flat out lie for the reasons outlined above. It's a different problem in practice. It may be the same concept, but Apple's uninsulated exterior antenna design exacerbates it so much that it happens when people hold the phone naturally, whereas most other phones don't exhibit the same symptoms.
I'm sure if Apple were able to find a phone that had the EXACT same problem, they'd be more than willing to put up a video. And they haven't done this.
Hopefully, the September deadline will urge Apple to put a clear insulating coating over their antennas. Only then will Apple be on equal footing with other cellphone makers antenna-wise. (In all other respects, they are admittedly better).
Everything you've said here just boils down to ... "It's a lie because Apple's iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues."
The fact is though, that Apple has admitted all along that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues, and they purposely designed the antenna that way. What you are leaving out also, is the part where *because* the iPhone 4's antenna is so sensitive, it drops less calls in marginal areas than other phones.
Yes, iPhone 4 has a very sensitive antenna. That's pretty much the whole point of the thing. All you have to do is hold it normally and you will get better reception and fewer dropped calls than any other phone. If you insist on clapping it to your head like a moron with your giant hand wrapped around it and if you are in a low signal area you might find some degradation of the signal (although it most likely won't drop a call).
I understand that some people have sweaty hands, and that some people are not as dexterous as others and have to hold the phone in that unusual way and so they *might* see a *slight* increase in dropped calls, but that's the essential trade-off of the iPhone 4 design. A better antenna, that's more sensitive, but with an obvious weak spot that you have to avoid.
If you don't like it, buy some other phone. It's not a flaw, it's a design choice made on purpose.
Overpriced by a factor of about three times. It was a decent box and a pretty design, but it was ridiculously expensive for what it offered. Many people said it would fail when it was first announced, and it did, in a big way.
What I fail to understand is if you don't think any mistake was made with the cube, then why did it end up becoming one of apple's biggest failures?
To be honest, my knowledge on the cube is very little. All I'm saying is that just because there is a mistake in product, doesn't necessarily mean it will fail. And this is exactly what the iPhone is proving right now. This couldn't be more evident, specially right after their quarter earnings conference.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
Yes, you can attenuate the signal on an iPhone 4 by touching "the spot", but I would hardly call the antenna "much worse". In fact, in almost 1 month of normal use, I literally haven't dropped any calls. That's my reality. BTW, that's without a case or bumper. Speaking of bumpers, I cracks me up when they're referred to as rubber bands. They're actually made with two kinds of material and have metal buttons. Last rubber band I used didn't have any buttons on it.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that. ...
Another nonsensical argument. Perhaps you are trying to confuse the signal display issue with the real signal loss issue?
First, any demonstrations that show an iP4 gong from 5 bars to Searching while the seam is bridged are no longer valid demonstrations. It's been shown that that apparent effect was strictly due to the bar display. In reality, the signal drop was never as severe as those demonstrations made it appear.
Secondly, any phone that exhibits this behavior, and it sure seems to be quite a few, will immediately drop the amount of signal it is going to drop, while the signal strength indicators will vary in the amount of time it takes them to reflect this. So, if any of these phones has a weak enough signal that it won't be able to maintain a connection, that will happen immediately, and, again, the iP4 is not unique in this regard.
And lastly, let us assume that, "iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that." All that actually proves is that the iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that. Not that the iP4 is the only phone that behaves like that. The available evidence indicates that many phones behave like that.
So, "X marks the spot". Wouldn't that argument actually work FOR Apple?
Since it's weak-point is extremely pin-pointed on the black band, a very tiny area relative to the phone, it wouldn't require a large part of your hand to grip it and attenuate the signal. You would just have to consciously avoid touching that very small area, which I think is the real issue for Apple. However, for me, this actually makes the other phones look more prone to signal attenuation since their weak spots seem to be more spread out in a wider area. At least that's how it looks like in the video demonstrations that Apple would like us to believe...
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
How does this argument work for Apple?
Apple has the only phone where X marks the spot since it is the only phone that can be effected by a single finger touch. For you to get the same effect on other phones, you need to cover the entire antenna with your palm in a death grip.
... A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
A distinction without a difference. Many phones have been shown to lose signal when held in a "normal grip". So, what does it matter that one is in physical contact with the antenna or not? It doesn't. The effect is the same.
I hold my phone on my left hand and while I hold it only my fingers are in contact with the phone, not my ENTIRE palm. And don't go telling me that Im un-natural.
I'd also like to chime in on this. FWIW, I've never ever held my phone in a way that has ever interfered with the antenna. I've always used four fingers and never my pinky. My thumb is placed on the left side covering the volume buttons and silence switch, my forefinger rests over the on/off button at the top, and my middle and ring finger completes my grasp by resting in the middle of the right side of the phone with my pinky propping up the rear. This has always been my "natural" grasp -- honest! You can see a pic here:
I get excellent reception here in San Francisco. Better than my 3GS. I am not having any issues at all but sympathize with those who are.
That being said, this was a very bold design choice by Apple to obtain the best possible reception, I believe, but I feel it should have been researched more thoroughly. Any time you touch an antenna, you affect the signal. Remember when cell phones had telescoping antennas?
Comments
Videos: death grip on Droid X, EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
* Droid X: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k
* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
This is true. I can reproduce it with a mere touch. The phone still works great though. With the exception of family and a few friends, I do most of my communication via e-mail and texting. So I haven't noticed too many problems. I did notice worse reception in my home, so I purchased the AT&T MicroCell. However, I think it actually made calls worse.
If Apple wants to silence the critics or show a meaningful comparison show the raw data, not a cheap visual demo that really tells nothing.
Except that plenty of iPhone 4 owners claim that they can't reproduce the effect by doing this mere touch.
But many owners can reproduce the effect, especially when the signal is already low. Many Nokia N97 may claim that they can't reproduce the death grip effect. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I hold my phone on my left hand and while I hold it only my fingers are in contact with the phone, not my ENTIRE palm. And don't go telling me that Im un-natural.
I never said holding it a different way was un-natural, only that holding it with the seam resting in your palm was a natural way of holding it. There CAN be more than one natural way of holding the phone.
Besides, showing the symptom doesn't require you're entire palm to be in contact with the phone as in the video. All you need is the corner to rest on your palm.
That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4.
It is odd that Apple didn't demo the one touch signal drop on other phones, because they exhibit it too. I believe they showed a picture of a non-smart phone that had a sticker on the back "don't touch here" or something. Apple's reasoning is not flawed. Millions are begging the question by assuming there is an issue only with iPhone 4, but it really isn't isolated to Apple's phones.
Here's what's happening.... you touch the death spot, see the signal drop, maybe lose a call... because: the software is reporting more signal than there is, when you touch, seems like more signal is lost, but there wasn't much to begin with... it's an illusion. If a call is dropped, you're in an area of weak cell.
Just TOUCHING a cell phone is enough to detenuate the antenna by -15dB - -20dB of signal... best way to make a phone call in an area of weak cell with any cell phone is to use a headset, preferably bluetooth. Set the phone up high... let it sit 30 seconds, try to make your call, don't touch the phone during the call.
This flame war is like the ones of old. But in the old timey flame wars, it wasn't literally thousands that were fooled by their own cleverness. By NOT observing this in other phones, you believed it didn't exist... but if you were observant enough (like me... I observed this behavior during the first hour I received my first Nokia cell phone in 2001), then you would have realized that Gizmodo wagged the dog. The signal indicator was the hole in everyone's argument, that, and that microwaves are invisible.
Don't let pride make you stupid. Take a look at what that old onion video did today, what Orson Wells did on the radio once,, and ask yourself again if it's not possible that Gizmodo totally stung you.
Show me a video of any of the phones Apple has demoed dropping bars with a single finger touching it. The flaw in Apple's reasoning is the fact that they don't address the skin touching the antenna issue. Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it with one finger.
This is what Apple has done:
They have acknowledged a flaw in their antennas that are common to all cell phones.
They have refused to acknowledge the real problem that sets the iPhone 4 apart. However, they have committed to issuing free bumpers to solve this problem (without fully acknowledging it). When Apple coats the antennas with a clear non-conductive material (which many people suspect they will do), they will be addressing the real problem.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
good thing apple is doing this. here's a few more.
Videos: death grip on Droid X, EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
* Droid X: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k
* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
apparently a non-issue for 99% of iPhone 4 owners.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
So, "X marks the spot". Wouldn't that argument actually work FOR Apple?
Since it's weak-point is extremely pin-pointed on the black band, a very tiny area relative to the phone, it wouldn't require a large part of your hand to grip it and attenuate the signal. You would just have to consciously avoid touching that very small area, which I think is the real issue for Apple. However, for me, this actually makes the other phones look more prone to signal attenuation since their weak spots seem to be more spread out in a wider area. At least that's how it looks like in the video demonstrations that Apple would like us to believe...
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
Yes, the other phones suffer from attenuation when a death grip is applied, but they don't suffer when you touch it with one finger.
They have acknowledged a flaw in their antennas that are common to all cell phones.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that.
Well what about those videos that shows no drop in bars even with a full death grip, how do you explain those?
... That's a far cry from any natural hold. Nor does it come close the one finger on the seam. The Galaxy S there is suffering from attenuation from the hand covering the antenna, not from physical contact with the antenna like on the iPhone4. ...
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
Someone mentioned that there's regulations on how much energy can go pass the head area, placing the antenna at the bottom complies helps them to comply with the regulations.
I fail to understand the "mistake" associated with the cube
Overpriced by a factor of about three times. It was a decent box and a pretty design, but it was ridiculously expensive for what it offered. Many people said it would fail when it was first announced, and it did, in a big way.
What I fail to understand is if you don't think any mistake was made with the cube, then why did it end up becoming one of apple's biggest failures?
Well what about those videos that shows no drop in bars even with a full death grip, how do you explain those?
If you have really good signal strength, the death grip may drop your signal by 20 or so dB, but it wouldn't show in terms of bars.
Oh, but one finger on the iPhone antenna seam is a natural hold? The only difference between the 2 is the location and that one's antenna is internal, while the other is not, which I guess throws cold water on the whole, "Apple screwed up with an external antenna," talking point. Sorry about that.
If you want to shift your claim to, "But the iPhone is affected by a normal grip," well, so are all the other phones we've seen videos of. So, one finger, normal grip, there's nothing unique about the iP4 in this regard, and your criticism, while it can be directed at other phones as well, falls flat on its face when you attempt to single out the iP4.
A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
The flaw with Apple's reasoning on this is that the iPhone 4 exhibits these attenuation signals from there mere touch of the seam between the two antennas. This is compounded by the fact that it happens to be exactly where many people who hold their phones in their left hand put their palms.
Sure, the other phones will show signal loss when you hold it with a death grip cupping your hand over the entire antenna, and the iPhone 4 will do the same thing.
However, I haven't seen any videos of any other phone showing signal loss from one finger touching it. The excuse Apple gives that it "marks the spot" is bullsh!t. No other phone has a spot (marked or unmarked) that has the same symptoms.
And it IS a big deal, since its in a spot that naturally gets touched when holding the phone with your left hand. It doesn't require an awkward grip or huge hands to duplicate.
The bumper does fix this problem, but for Apple to say that the entire industry suffers from the same problem is a flat out lie for the reasons outlined above. It's a different problem in practice. It may be the same concept, but Apple's uninsulated exterior antenna design exacerbates it so much that it happens when people hold the phone naturally, whereas most other phones don't exhibit the same symptoms.
I'm sure if Apple were able to find a phone that had the EXACT same problem, they'd be more than willing to put up a video. And they haven't done this.
Hopefully, the September deadline will urge Apple to put a clear insulating coating over their antennas. Only then will Apple be on equal footing with other cellphone makers antenna-wise. (In all other respects, they are admittedly better).
Everything you've said here just boils down to ... "It's a lie because Apple's iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues."
The fact is though, that Apple has admitted all along that the iPhone 4 is more sensitive to these issues, and they purposely designed the antenna that way. What you are leaving out also, is the part where *because* the iPhone 4's antenna is so sensitive, it drops less calls in marginal areas than other phones.
Yes, iPhone 4 has a very sensitive antenna. That's pretty much the whole point of the thing. All you have to do is hold it normally and you will get better reception and fewer dropped calls than any other phone. If you insist on clapping it to your head like a moron with your giant hand wrapped around it and if you are in a low signal area you might find some degradation of the signal (although it most likely won't drop a call).
I understand that some people have sweaty hands, and that some people are not as dexterous as others and have to hold the phone in that unusual way and so they *might* see a *slight* increase in dropped calls, but that's the essential trade-off of the iPhone 4 design. A better antenna, that's more sensitive, but with an obvious weak spot that you have to avoid.
If you don't like it, buy some other phone. It's not a flaw, it's a design choice made on purpose.
Overpriced by a factor of about three times. It was a decent box and a pretty design, but it was ridiculously expensive for what it offered. Many people said it would fail when it was first announced, and it did, in a big way.
What I fail to understand is if you don't think any mistake was made with the cube, then why did it end up becoming one of apple's biggest failures?
To be honest, my knowledge on the cube is very little. All I'm saying is that just because there is a mistake in product, doesn't necessarily mean it will fail. And this is exactly what the iPhone is proving right now. This couldn't be more evident, specially right after their quarter earnings conference.
I love my iPhone, but it has a much worse antennae than any you have listed below.
Keep it real!
Yes, you can attenuate the signal on an iPhone 4 by touching "the spot", but I would hardly call the antenna "much worse". In fact, in almost 1 month of normal use, I literally haven't dropped any calls. That's my reality. BTW, that's without a case or bumper. Speaking of bumpers, I cracks me up when they're referred to as rubber bands. They're actually made with two kinds of material and have metal buttons. Last rubber band I used didn't have any buttons on it.
I watched these videos and I don't see one video where I can touch a part of the phone with one finger and remove all data. iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that. ...
Another nonsensical argument. Perhaps you are trying to confuse the signal display issue with the real signal loss issue?
First, any demonstrations that show an iP4 gong from 5 bars to Searching while the seam is bridged are no longer valid demonstrations. It's been shown that that apparent effect was strictly due to the bar display. In reality, the signal drop was never as severe as those demonstrations made it appear.
Secondly, any phone that exhibits this behavior, and it sure seems to be quite a few, will immediately drop the amount of signal it is going to drop, while the signal strength indicators will vary in the amount of time it takes them to reflect this. So, if any of these phones has a weak enough signal that it won't be able to maintain a connection, that will happen immediately, and, again, the iP4 is not unique in this regard.
And lastly, let us assume that, "iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that." All that actually proves is that the iPhone 4 is the only phone with a video like that. Not that the iP4 is the only phone that behaves like that. The available evidence indicates that many phones behave like that.
So, "X marks the spot". Wouldn't that argument actually work FOR Apple?
Since it's weak-point is extremely pin-pointed on the black band, a very tiny area relative to the phone, it wouldn't require a large part of your hand to grip it and attenuate the signal. You would just have to consciously avoid touching that very small area, which I think is the real issue for Apple. However, for me, this actually makes the other phones look more prone to signal attenuation since their weak spots seem to be more spread out in a wider area. At least that's how it looks like in the video demonstrations that Apple would like us to believe...
I think the real fault here is not the weak spot, but the placement of it. I really would have liked to see the antennae be placed at the top of the phone where your hand wouldn't normally touch. It makes much more sense to do that, but perhaps the reason why they haven't was because of engineering issues with the current design.
Placement of the antennae in the next iPhone should definitely be the top of Apple's priority list in the next iPhone.
How does this argument work for Apple?
Apple has the only phone where X marks the spot since it is the only phone that can be effected by a single finger touch. For you to get the same effect on other phones, you need to cover the entire antenna with your palm in a death grip.
... A normal grip, with the fingers on the side and the corner resting in your palm is a natural grip. It has enough contact with the seam to cause the same problem as demonstrated by the finger. I wasn't arguing that the finger touch was a natural grip, only that it demonstrates that the problem is one of physical contact with the antenna, and no other phone has that problem.
A distinction without a difference. Many phones have been shown to lose signal when held in a "normal grip". So, what does it matter that one is in physical contact with the antenna or not? It doesn't. The effect is the same.
I hold my phone on my left hand and while I hold it only my fingers are in contact with the phone, not my ENTIRE palm. And don't go telling me that Im un-natural.
I'd also like to chime in on this. FWIW, I've never ever held my phone in a way that has ever interfered with the antenna. I've always used four fingers and never my pinky. My thumb is placed on the left side covering the volume buttons and silence switch, my forefinger rests over the on/off button at the top, and my middle and ring finger completes my grasp by resting in the middle of the right side of the phone with my pinky propping up the rear. This has always been my "natural" grasp -- honest! You can see a pic here:
http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w...gmyiPhone4.jpg
I get excellent reception here in San Francisco. Better than my 3GS. I am not having any issues at all but sympathize with those who are.
That being said, this was a very bold design choice by Apple to obtain the best possible reception, I believe, but I feel it should have been researched more thoroughly. Any time you touch an antenna, you affect the signal. Remember when cell phones had telescoping antennas?