Apple says white iPhone 4 won't arrive until later this year

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  • Reply 141 of 223
    cgc0202cgc0202 Posts: 624member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macadamias View Post

    Form is a PART of function and both are important in design, you don't separate them into two teams that compete for attention.



    .

    I think that Apple may be embarking on a new era where function follows form. This might be the greatest turning point in design history - likely this is where Jony will REALLY make his mark.



    Just look at the new Mac Mini. It is beautiful, but there was no room in the case for BluRay.



    Look at the iP4 - They wanted more battery life, so they put the antenna on the outside.



    Jony is going to go down in history for this.



    If I understood your post correctly, you are misrepresenting the other poster. (S)he stated emphatically:



    "Form is a PART of function..."



    and as important:



    "... both are important in design"



    instead, you stated:



    "... function follows form..."



    When the iPad was finally launched, Jon Ive shed insight to his design strategy. If I understood it correctly, Ive's design is closer to the statement of the other poster.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post


    Look at the iP4 - They wanted more battery life, so they put the antenna on the outside.



    Unless you are privy to the design strategies of Apple, I am not so sure that they brought out the antenna because of the battery.



    If you are familiar with conventional antennas, they are actually placed outside, like the TV antennas of long time ago, before cable. This is true also with cell telephone antennas, TV station antennas, etc. -- placed as high as possible to minimize any interference that could block the signal. If you consider radio-telescopes as just another more sophisticated antenna, the same principle -- keep them outside and in high places. In as dry a place (no clouds or smogs, etc.) to interfere with reception and transmission.



    The placement of antenna inside the cell phone case was just a design that was considered practical. You do not want a dangling antenna to get snagged or lost, like a rabbit antenna, if you are on the move.



    And, it became the convention. The fact is, it is not the best design. The casing interferes with signal reception and transmission, more so if the antenna is miniaturized. Some matrrials used as casing may be worse than others. The latter is likely the reason why Apple went from metal casing to plastic casing, from the original iPhone to the next two generations (3G and3GS).



    The reality is that any casing interferes with antenna signal transmission and reception.



    Apple engineers and Jon Ive therefore were creative and thinking out of the box when they thought of placing the antenna outside. Why? because it is outside:
    1. no reception and transmission interference due to the casing.

    2. it is now possible to consider larger sizes for the miniature antennas

    Here form became part of the function.



    Was it perfect? Apparently not.



    Should it be abandoned? That would be the most stupid thing to do, after just a simple setback. More important, only a very small percentage are affected by the problem.



    [Even if you double or tripple the incidence, due to underreporting, it is still the case that vast majority are not returning their iPhones. Only two possibilities, they are stupid and indeed cultist; or they are not encountering the problem. From my own experience trying the iPhone 4, it is the latter.]



    So, should Apple listen to you or all those who thinks the "outside antennas" design is the worst idea in the history of mankind?



    If Madame Curie, Edison or other inventors and scientists gave up with their idea the first time they encountered a problem, we would not have progressed as we have been able to do right now. Light bulbs would not be around. It took more than a decade before a physician was able to prove that lowering the body temperature can lower oxygen consumption. Had the doctor not persisted, heart surgery, brain surgery, and all sorts of delicate surgeries may not be so possible right now. I could go on, and on with examples.



    Conventional thinking is the enemy of innovation and progress.



    If indeed, water, perspiration, salt or anything coming from the hands or fingers, contribute to the attenuation encountered with the "outside antennas" of iPhone 4, the solution need not mean placing the antenna back inside the casing.



    That placing a bumper diminishes the attenuation indicate other possibilities that could lead to a solution -- without using a bumper or a tape as favored by Consumer Report. Silicon design of chips up to the nano-level may be emulated. Perhaps, place a very thin layer of more permanent coating. Another possibility: How about reconfiguring where the "black band" is located? I am sure there will be more possibilities, once the issue is better understood.



    But, to reiterate, placing the antenna back inside, after a single setback is the most stupid suggestion or solution to do.



    CGC



    N.B.



    As to form being integral part of function, you just have to look at the diversity of nature to prove this. One example: Flowers, why do they come in different shapes, forms and colors? Reason: To allow only specific organisms (bees, buterflies, birds, etc.) to aid in specific plant reproduction. Even flower colors and scents come into play. Colored flowers for daytime polllination, less attractive (white and dull) colors but very strong scent for those flowers that depend on night creatures to participate in pollination. There are other forms integrated in plant architectures for plants that undergo self-pollination, or those that are aided by forces of nature, like wind, rain, fire, etc.



    The form of flowers in plants is just one example where form is integral part of function. Then, there are forms that would baffle the simple mind. For example, the platypus.



    The point is that one form, as far as nature is concerned is not always the optimal form. Variations in form arise to be able to achieve a certain function, or in the case of nature, goal, e.g., reproduction.
  • Reply 142 of 223
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blackintosh;


    And now the Apple apologists come out of the woodwork. Time to put down the Kool Aid and face facts.



    The external antenna with the gap right near the users palm is a failure. It is probably the greatest example of form over function in history. The Apple engineers begged Steve Mobs not to embrace it and Mr. Egomaniac did it anyway. And now Apple has to pony up and buy the whole world free cases. What does that tell you?



    It tells me that you sound trollish in all of your posts!
  • Reply 143 of 223
    storneostorneo Posts: 101member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post


    And now the Apple apologists come out of the woodwork. Time to put down the Kool Aid and face facts.



    The external antenna with the gap right near the users palm is a failure. It is probably the greatest example of form over function in history. The Apple engineers begged Steve Mobs not to embrace it and Mr. Egomaniac did it anyway. And now Apple has to pony up and buy the whole world free cases. What does that tell you?



    That you're a dumbass!
  • Reply 144 of 223
    So what's this new issue with Apple called, Whiteygate?



    The white phone is late. It happens. It's not a big deal. You freaking wait if you want one. If you can't, buy the black one paint it, cover it, skin it do whatever makes you feel all warm and cozy that your phone is the perfect color and move on with your life.



    How about discussing real news like if Verizon is selling so many Droid phones, why are they loosing money? Why did they loose 11k workers?
  • Reply 145 of 223
    rabbit_coachrabbit_coach Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    The paint wouldn't be applied in those areas.



    White paint on glass is very, very tricky.



    There are a number of issues with white paint, including actual hue, yellowing, and covering power. There are basically three pigments from which to choose: flake white, zinc oxide, and titanium oxide. Each one has pros and cons.



    Flake white is a fabulous looking white, has great covering power, and won't yellow if it receives light on a regular basis (don't keep in the dark). The con? It's lead. It won't be used in a consumer product. Flake white is still available as a fine art paint, but it's been banned for commercial and consumer use, e.g., house paint.



    Both zinc oxide and titanium oxide have less toxicity (which is why they're used in sunscreen lotions), but also considerably less covering power than flake white. The issue right now is they are probably having difficulty getting a thin enough coat, yet still have enough opacity.



    I see you know what you are talking about! Thank you for your comment. I totally agree.
  • Reply 146 of 223
    storneostorneo Posts: 101member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RicMac View Post


    @Blackintosh

    Deep inside yourself You are still the 14 year old kid nobody liked in school. Everybody called you a nerd, the girls didn't like you and the jocks picked on you. You come here to flame and for a moment it makes you feel like a real man. You will never be a real man, just a pathetic little boy



    Love it! Not only because it's funny, but probably true too!
  • Reply 147 of 223
    tt92618tt92618 Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post


    And now the Apple apologists come out of the woodwork. Time to put down the Kool Aid and face facts.



    The external antenna with the gap right near the users palm is a failure. It is probably the greatest example of form over function in history. The Apple engineers begged Steve Mobs not to embrace it and Mr. Egomaniac did it anyway. And now Apple has to pony up and buy the whole world free cases. What does that tell you?



    Do you have an iPhone 4?
  • Reply 148 of 223
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    I expect to have the funds to upgrade to iPhone 4 at the end of the month - but where do I find one - or should I pre-order it now to have any chance of getting one in the beginning of April?
  • Reply 149 of 223
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post


    So what's this new issue with Apple called, Whiteygate?



    Of course, Whiteygate is just begging for the name to get changed to Crackergate or Honkygate.





    *yes I'm white heh.
  • Reply 150 of 223
    rabbit_coachrabbit_coach Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post


    If I understood your post correctly, you are misrepresenting the other poster. (S)he stated emphatically:



    "Form is a PART of function..."



    and as important:



    "... both are important in design"



    instead, you stated:



    "... function follows form..."



    When the iPad was finally launched, Jon Ive shed insight to his design strategy. If I understood it correctly, Ive's design is closer to the statement of the other poster.......



    [QUOTE]



    WOW!! The most sophisticated post I have seen for a long time. You are bringing this whole discussion to higher philosophy. I hope to read more of your posts here. very insightful.
  • Reply 151 of 223
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post


    So the difference then between the phone and the pod is over $1500 clams.



    One would think that $1,500 worth of clams would be an impressive pile indeed.
  • Reply 152 of 223
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,582member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Either they knew, or they were taken by surprise by a major issue, weeks or months into the production run of their most important product. If it is the paint issue, which has been rumored, then they obviously knew. Unless AI and Giz are more informed about Apple's production issues that Steve Jobs.



    Maybe I think they are more competent than that. Nothing conspiratorial in believing they know what is happening with their own production runs. Just common sense. It is funny how common sense becomes 'nonsensical' when it runs counter to one's biases.



    Sorry, but it's just silly to think Steve Jobs would stand up there in a high profile press conference and say essentially that the white iPhone would start shipping in a week or so and knowing that it wouldn't. I mean, what exactly is the angle for them there? Seriously? Seriously ridiculous on your part. I think it's pretty obvious that it ran into issues that weren't anticipated at the time he said that.



    It is funny how common sense goes out the window when it runs counter to one's biases.
  • Reply 153 of 223
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post


    Do you actually know the meaning of percent? As a reminder it is used to visualize data in a normalized form. Meaning:



    All AppleCare iPhone 4 costumers = 100.00%

    antenna problems for AC costumers = 0.55%



    Since quite a substantial number of people use AppleCare with their iPhone, this should be enough to be representative.



    That could just as easily be the result of dividing all AC reported Antenna/Reception reports by ALL iPhones sold to date. Or could be the percentage of all AC reports for ALL products. Not sure if the original source data is explicit enough to be sure about it.



    either way we would need some way to extrapolate reported problems to all problems which have not yet been discovered or reported or considered serious enough to report or have read so much on the web figured a fix must be in the works and are willing to wait.



    Someone said - there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statics. Which means that without full disclosure of the context statistics can appear to be significant which are in fact meaningless.
  • Reply 154 of 223
    cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    I expect to have the funds to upgrade to iPhone 4 at the end of the month - but where do I find one - or should I pre-order it now to have any chance of getting one in the beginning of April?



    I think it's reasonable to expect it by early April. After all, that's 8.5 months away.
  • Reply 155 of 223
    berpberp Posts: 136member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    Well... I sort of believe that Apple does push form over function a little too much. Somewhere else I was reading about the next generation iPod touch. Apparently, they're going to use a 3 megapixel camera instead of the 5 megapixel camera already introduced in the iPhone 4. I think the 5 MP camera was a millimeter too large to fit in the case they've already decided to use (form). So they downgraded the camera (function) to fit the form.



    The question I have is why is Apple so afraid to use the word "tradeoff" or "compromise". People do understand. Life is a compromise. On the iPhone 4, the antenna was pushed to the outside of the case to save interior space. This gave the phone more room for a larger battery - for instance. The trade off is that you need to avoid holding the phone a certain way. If they'd just been straight forward about the design, nobody would give a hoot about the "death grip".



    Actually trade-off is a compromise expression as far as Apple goes. It's more an evolutionary co-opting of form and function. Like the human body co-opts the brain, and vice-versa. With this perfectible match up comes a perfectible thought process and the perfectible ways to open the latter up to interference free peer-to-peer communication. *



    It's a dialectical process that mirrors perfectly human evolution. Apple simply embodies the extraordinary kinship between what we are and what we endeavor and painstakingly manage to do.



    In other words, form and function are tautological, fused into action, therefore *undistinguishable from one another. The sooner one goes with nature's flow, the more of a jumpstart on one's natural foe. *
  • Reply 156 of 223
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post


    If I understood your post correctly, you are misrepresenting the other poster. (S)he stated emphatically:



    "Form is a PART of function..."



    and as important:



    "... both are important in design"



    instead, you stated:



    "... function follows form..."



    When the iPad was finally launched, Jon Ive shed insight to his design strategy. If I understood it correctly, Ive's design is closer to the statement of the other poster.



    Unless you are privy to the design strategies of Apple, I am not so sure that they brought out the antenna because of the battery.



    If you are familiar with conventional antennas, they are actually placed outside, like the TV antennas of long time ago, before cable. This is true also with cell telephone antennas, TV station antennas, etc. -- placed as high as possible to minimize any interference that could block the signal. If you consider radio-telescopes as just another more sophisticated antenna, the same principle -- keep them outside and in high places. In as dry a place (no clouds or smogs, etc.) to interfere with reception and transmission.



    The placement of antenna inside the cell phone case was just a design that was considered practical. You do not want a dangling antenna to get snagged or lost, like a rabbit antenna, if you are on the move.



    And, it became the convention. The fact is, it is not the best design. The casing interferes with signal reception and transmission, more so if the antenna is miniaturized. Some matrrials used as casing may be worse than others. The latter is likely the reason why Apple went from metal casing to plastic casing, from the original iPhone to the next two generations (3G and3GS).



    The reality is that any casing interferes with antenna signal transmission and reception.



    Apple engineers and Jon Ive therefore were creative and thinking out of the box when they thought of placing the antenna outside. Why? because it is outside:
    1. no reception and transmission interference due to the casing.

    2. it is now possible to consider lareger sizes for the miniature antennas

    Here form became part of the function.



    Was it perfect? Apparently not.



    Should it be abandoned? That would be the most stupid thing to do, after just a simple setback. More important, only a very small percentage are affected by the problem.



    [Even if you double or tripple the incidence, due to underreporting, it is still the case that vast majority are not returning their iPhones. Only two possibilities, they are stupid and indeed cultist; or they are not encountering the problem. From my own experience trying the iPhone 4, it is the latter.]



    So, should Apple listen to you or all those who thinks the "outside antennas" design is the worst idea in the history of mankind?



    If Madame Curie, Edison or other inventors and scientists gave up with their idea the first time they encountered a problem, we would not have progressed as we have been able to do right now. Light bulbs would not be around. It took more than a decade before a physician was able to prove that lowering the body temperature can lower oxygen consumption. Had the doctor not persisted, heart surgery, brain surgery, and all sorts of delicate surgeries may not be so possible right now. I could go on, and on with examples.



    Conventional thinking is the enemy of innovation and progress.



    If indeed, water, perspiration, salt or anything coming from the hands or fingers, contribute to the attenuation encountered with the "outside antennas" of iPhone 4, the solution need not mean placing the antenna back inside the casing.



    That placing a bumper diminishes the attenuation indicate other possibilities that could lead to a solution -- without using a bumper or a tape as favored by Consumer Report. Silicon design of chips up to the nano-level may be emulated. Perhaps, place a very thin layer of more permanent coating. Another possibility: How about reconfiguring where the "black band" is located? I am sure there will be more possibilities, once the issue is better understood.



    But, to reiterate, placing the antenna back inside, after a single setback is the most stupid suggestion or solution to do.



    CGC



    N.B.



    As to form being integral part of function, you just have to look at the diversity of nature to prove this. One example: Flowers, why do they come in different shapes, forms and colors? Reason: To allow only specific organisms (bees, buterflies, birds, etc.) to aid in specific plant reproduction. Even flower colors and scents come into play. Colored flowers for daytime polllination, less attractive (white and dull) colors but very strong scent for those flowers that depend on night creatures to participate in pollination. There are other forms integrated in plant architectures for plants that undergo self-pollination, or those that are aided by forces of nature, like wind, rain, fire, etc.



    The form of flowers in plants is just one example where form is integral part of function. Then, there are forms that would baffle the simple mind. For example, the platypus.



    The point is that one form, as far as nature is concern is not always the optimal form. Variations in form arise to be able to achieve a certain function, or in the case of nature, goal, e.g., reproduction.



    Why in god's name would you expend so much time and effort responding to this Apple talking-points regurgitating spam-bot butt-boy?
  • Reply 157 of 223
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Sorry, but it's just silly to think Steve Jobs would stand up there in a high profile press conference and say essentially that the white iPhone would start shipping in a week or so and knowing that it wouldn't. I mean, what exactly is the angle for them there? Seriously? Seriously ridiculous on your part. I think it's pretty obvious that it ran into issues that weren't anticipated at the time he said that.



    It is funny how common sense goes out the window when it runs counter to one's biases.



    It ran into issues. A week before launch. And they had no idea at all that it might be an issue, just one week earlier. You must really think they are incompetent. One week before launch and they just realized they have a problem with the hundreds of thousands or millions of units they have already produced.



    What's the angle for not disclosing it a week ago? Already explained. It would be a major buzz kill to the image Jobs carefully crafted for consumption last week. Admitting to a major, weeks or months long delay due to manufacturing problems would seriously run counter to their sales pitch that there isn't any manufacturing/design problems with the iPhone.



    The suggestion that they were taken unaware and had no idea just 7 days ago and two weeks before launch, is even more stupid than the suggestion that they were stunned and surprised that their bars algorithm over stated the signal strength (you know, the algorithm they released 2 years ago who's only change was to purposely overstate the signal strength). Who would reasonably buy either of those assertions? Only someone who believes Apple has no idea what they are doing and merely guessing at what they produce.
  • Reply 158 of 223
    naboozlenaboozle Posts: 213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    Colorware to the rescue - http://www.colorwarepc.com/p-236-iphone-4.aspx. Just pony up the cash.



    Exactly! I sent my 3GS to Colorware, and the results are absolutely gorgeous! For the iPhone4, it should have the added benefit of fixing the antenna problem that doesn't exist.
  • Reply 159 of 223
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by columbus View Post


    Is this because no one can buy the white ones?



    lol, genius... can't fault that logic mate!
  • Reply 160 of 223
    djintxdjintx Posts: 454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    Well... I sort of believe that Apple does push form over function a little too much. Somewhere else I was reading about the next generation iPod touch. Apparently, they're going to use a 3 megapixel camera instead of the 5 megapixel camera already introduced in the iPhone 4. I think the 5 MP camera was a millimeter too large to fit in the case they've already decided to use (form). So they downgraded the camera (function) to fit the form.

    .



    Let's just say for the sake of discussion that what you say here is correct. Saying that they "downgraded" the camera due to form is not correct, because you are comparing it against a different product. The current iPod touch has no camera, so to go from no camera to 3 MP camera, is more than an upgrade, its a feature addition. Also, megapixels aren't the only judge of camera quality. A sensor with fewer megapixels can be better if it has other improved tech specs. Obviously we have no idea at this point what Apple plans to release. But no matter what camera they put in the iPod, assuming they do, it won't be a downgrade.



    The fact that the iP4 has a 5 MP camera has nothing to do with the future iPod, and they are not expected to use identical components.
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