So this is what Apple has come to? Help people feel good about their purchase because other companies have the same problem? Post videos of other companies phones with similar issues? I never thought Apple would stoop to this level.
I seem to be able to hold my Incredible any way I like without issue!
It really doesn't matter at this point because Apple is the only one get continuous bad press related to this subject.
True, but that’s why they are on the defensive here, to show they are not alone.
None of that really matters as they have been beaten by the media since day one about iPhone reception and call issues yet continue to be the most profitable, highest selling single unit smartphone maker on the planet. There isn’t a handset vendor in the world that wouldn’t change places with Apple on its worse day right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
I do agree with you that this misrepresentation of the bars was intentional by Apple to make AT&T looks better but this is another issue. Right now the iPhone 4 doesn't drop 5 bars at once.
For the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.
I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs
99.45%
To be fair, 0.55% was the number of AppleCare calls compared to number of iPhone 4’s sold. Even though this issue only affected a few people and clearly was blown out of proportion by “chicken littles” Apple surely used the best metric they could find to prove their point… as any good company should.
I wonder why people who don't own an iPhone 4, never will own one and can't imagine anyone else owning one still find time to come to an apple fan site to tell everyone how much they hate the iphone 4 because of it's supposed antennae problems? Is it because you hate Steve Jobs or the Apple company or you just hate in general. Please, we get it. The millions of people who own the phone and the millions of people who will get one (include me in that bunch) get it. You hate Apple and everything they stand for.
For those of you still having antennae problems, either take the phone back for a full refund or get a cover. It's that simple. But if you just like coming here just to get people all upset over this ridiculous argument about a thin line on an antennae, count me out. I'v had it with this arguing for argument sake. Please, just move on. Nothing more to see here.
TFor the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.
I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.
Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is more accurate representation of actual signal strength.
Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is logical.
But even with v4.0.1 the bars aren?t represented with each bar representing a 20% increase with each new bar, and sense this is RF it seems like a pointless way to represent bars. The only thing they show is more bars equals greater signal strength than lower bars, and vice versa, for the bars represented on that platform.
As we?ve seen, you can?t look at two different phones with different OSes and determine which one has a stronger signal or is likely to make a better connection based on the number of bars. To complicate things further, there is evidence to suggest that Apple?s iPhone 4 design is allowing for connections to be made when other phones won?t even when measuring dB levels so even that metric can?t be used in and of itself.
edit: Let me also put this another way?
Under v4.0.1 if I have 5 bars but at the low end with 76 dB does that really say I have full strength? If having less than 5 bars doesn?t mean I will get less service in terms of my ability to make a call or connect to high speed data then how is 3 bars not ?full service? if there is no lessening of the service? How it anything less than 51 dB to be considered ?full service?
I really hope Apple changes the game on this because they really don?t mean anything. Just give me the network type if I have a viable connection.
Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Your post makes me think of The Fox and the Grapes.
Quote:
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although she leaped with all her strength. As she went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves
Um... regardless of how few users drop calls on iPhone 4, the stink here is how Apple is misrepresenting the issue: they're implying that other manufacturers' attenuation problems equate to iPhone 4's detuning problem.
Perhaps, but getting cancer on the tongue is pretty odd. Why there? Especially for a non smoker. But like you said, no one knows. I use the ear piece anyway, to be on the safe side. And I dislike holding the phone to my ear.
On this, we agree. I don't know for a fact that cell phones held close to the face cause anything. But it just seems prudent to avoid it if you can. I routinely use the speakerphone whenever possible just to be on the safe side. If this proves to be pointless by future research, it didn't cost me anything because I kinda like speaking more freely with the phone not stuck to my face. I often just sit it on my desk. In the car, I use my Jawbone.
Um... regardless of how few users drop calls on iPhone 4, the stink here is how Apple is misrepresenting the issue: they're implying that other manufacturers' attenuation problems equate to iPhone 4's detuning problem.
I don't agree with your statement above (or at least I think it's a bit overly dramatic and misleading), but thanks for the link. The information there is a bit all over the place and asks more questions than it gives answers, but kudos for even *hinting* at new facts.
I'm especially pleased to know that (reading between the lines), *fat* people have a larger attenuating affect on a cell phone antenna than regular folks. It's been obvious to me for some time that the effects seen on iPhone 4 don't happen to everyone and I've been curious to try and find out what the factors are. It seems that Apple at least, has figured out the relevant criteria to the point that they can make almost any phone lose signal bars.
- Clearly, due to the way the bars are calculated, all the phones in Apple's videos need to be in weak signal areas (they almost all start on the edge of three bars and drop to one or none).
- Clearly as well, sweaty hands has little or nothing to do with it since some of the antennas are internal and some are not.
- Now we know that people with a high BMI (basically more water in the body) are able to attenuate the signal more, and are thus likely to experience the effect more often or at least to a larger degree.
I have also thought for a while that since the problem is much less pronounced (almost non-existent in fact), *outside* of the USA, that the particular type of hardware or technology used n the signal towers themselves might be at issue as well, but we don't know anything like that for sure.
The thing I find most remarkable about this whole thing is that here we are weeks later and *still* this is the closest we can come to actual facts. It's amazing to me that some person or organisation hasn't stepped up with a full explanation.
With hindsight I wish Steve had just laid it on the table:
"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."
This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.
For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.
Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Thanks for the advice. Your comments convinced me that my years of using excellent Apple products have been a figment of my imagination. Too bad the iPhone facts don't back up your claims.
But, for your sake, I am happy you have a choice of phones and carriers.
With hindsight I wish Steve had just laid it on the table:
"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."
This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.
For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.
If only Americans were so rational! I wish people could tell the truth an make people happy. Americans want drama, sensational stories and people to complain about.
Why is everyone (including Apple) obsessed with death grip when it isn't the real issue here?
Not denying the issue.... If you can hiold the phone with one finger it's a problem, if not it is another buzz phrase for those who want to see Apple fall for whatever reason.
Why should they post more info on the favorite and rarely important signal attenuation issue with the iPhone. The unknowing masses spurred on by Applr haters have made it the mlost important thing on the net for days. Other phones havethe same or similar problems. That's all that is being shown. Guess Apple can take the heat and others can't,
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Why should they. It would be redundant. Most of the folks caterwauling here seem to witness it all the time.
Comments
I seem to be able to hold my Incredible any way I like without issue!
It really doesn't matter at this point because Apple is the only one get continuous bad press related to this subject.
True, but that’s why they are on the defensive here, to show they are not alone.
None of that really matters as they have been beaten by the media since day one about iPhone reception and call issues yet continue to be the most profitable, highest selling single unit smartphone maker on the planet. There isn’t a handset vendor in the world that wouldn’t change places with Apple on its worse day right now.
I do agree with you that this misrepresentation of the bars was intentional by Apple to make AT&T looks better but this is another issue. Right now the iPhone 4 doesn't drop 5 bars at once.
For the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.
I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.
99.45%
To be fair, 0.55% was the number of AppleCare calls compared to number of iPhone 4’s sold. Even though this issue only affected a few people and clearly was blown out of proportion by “chicken littles” Apple surely used the best metric they could find to prove their point… as any good company should.
For those of you still having antennae problems, either take the phone back for a full refund or get a cover. It's that simple. But if you just like coming here just to get people all upset over this ridiculous argument about a thin line on an antennae, count me out. I'v had it with this arguing for argument sake. Please, just move on. Nothing more to see here.
TFor the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.
I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.
Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is more accurate representation of actual signal strength.
Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is logical.
But even with v4.0.1 the bars aren?t represented with each bar representing a 20% increase with each new bar, and sense this is RF it seems like a pointless way to represent bars. The only thing they show is more bars equals greater signal strength than lower bars, and vice versa, for the bars represented on that platform.
As we?ve seen, you can?t look at two different phones with different OSes and determine which one has a stronger signal or is likely to make a better connection based on the number of bars. To complicate things further, there is evidence to suggest that Apple?s iPhone 4 design is allowing for connections to be made when other phones won?t even when measuring dB levels so even that metric can?t be used in and of itself.
edit: Let me also put this another way?Under v4.0.1 if I have 5 bars but at the low end with 76 dB does that really say I have full strength? If having less than 5 bars doesn?t mean I will get less service in terms of my ability to make a call or connect to high speed data then how is 3 bars not ?full service? if there is no lessening of the service? How it anything less than 51 dB to be considered ?full service?
I really hope Apple changes the game on this because they really don?t mean anything. Just give me the network type if I have a viable connection.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Your post makes me think of The Fox and the Grapes.
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although she leaped with all her strength. As she went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves
There's a big difference between detuning and attenuating an antenna.
Perhaps, but getting cancer on the tongue is pretty odd. Why there? Especially for a non smoker. But like you said, no one knows. I use the ear piece anyway, to be on the safe side. And I dislike holding the phone to my ear.
On this, we agree. I don't know for a fact that cell phones held close to the face cause anything. But it just seems prudent to avoid it if you can. I routinely use the speakerphone whenever possible just to be on the safe side. If this proves to be pointless by future research, it didn't cost me anything because I kinda like speaking more freely with the phone not stuck to my face. I often just sit it on my desk. In the car, I use my Jawbone.
Um... regardless of how few users drop calls on iPhone 4, the stink here is how Apple is misrepresenting the issue: they're implying that other manufacturers' attenuation problems equate to iPhone 4's detuning problem.
There's a big difference between detuning and attenuating an antenna.
I don't agree with your statement above (or at least I think it's a bit overly dramatic and misleading), but thanks for the link. The information there is a bit all over the place and asks more questions than it gives answers, but kudos for even *hinting* at new facts.
I'm especially pleased to know that (reading between the lines), *fat* people have a larger attenuating affect on a cell phone antenna than regular folks. It's been obvious to me for some time that the effects seen on iPhone 4 don't happen to everyone and I've been curious to try and find out what the factors are. It seems that Apple at least, has figured out the relevant criteria to the point that they can make almost any phone lose signal bars.
- Clearly, due to the way the bars are calculated, all the phones in Apple's videos need to be in weak signal areas (they almost all start on the edge of three bars and drop to one or none).
- Clearly as well, sweaty hands has little or nothing to do with it since some of the antennas are internal and some are not.
- Now we know that people with a high BMI (basically more water in the body) are able to attenuate the signal more, and are thus likely to experience the effect more often or at least to a larger degree.
I have also thought for a while that since the problem is much less pronounced (almost non-existent in fact), *outside* of the USA, that the particular type of hardware or technology used n the signal towers themselves might be at issue as well, but we don't know anything like that for sure.
The thing I find most remarkable about this whole thing is that here we are weeks later and *still* this is the closest we can come to actual facts. It's amazing to me that some person or organisation hasn't stepped up with a full explanation.
"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."
This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.
For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.
Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.
This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.
Thanks for the advice. Your comments convinced me that my years of using excellent Apple products have been a figment of my imagination. Too bad the iPhone facts don't back up your claims.
But, for your sake, I am happy you have a choice of phones and carriers.
When will they figure out that it isn't a very god thing to stive for?
Does anyone looking at the website actually think it's unbiased?
With hindsight I wish Steve had just laid it on the table:
"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."
This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.
For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.
If only Americans were so rational! I wish people could tell the truth an make people happy. Americans want drama, sensational stories and people to complain about.
In strategy games and magic, it's called "misdirection".
Thanks for posting the link to the fickle finger of death video. Apple seems happy to post videos of the competition, but nothing of the iPhone 4.
Why should they. It would be redundant. Most of the folks caterwauling here seem to witness it all the time.
All phones suffer from death grip.
Only the iPhone 4 suffers from the finger of death (and it's not that common):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gb3aQ5XoQw
Why is everyone (including Apple) obsessed with death grip when it isn't the real issue here?
Not denying the issue.... If you can hiold the phone with one finger it's a problem, if not it is another buzz phrase for those who want to see Apple fall for whatever reason.
Does anyone looking at the website actually think it's unbiased?
Of course it's not unbiased. It's totally self-serving. Duh - welcome to corporate spin.
But you must be naive if you think that Motorola, Nokia, HTC, etc are.
There's a big difference between detuning and attenuating an antenna.
Oh boy, here we go again, for the umpteenth time.....
Why should they. It would be redundant. Most of the folks caterwauling here seem to witness it all the time.