I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
QFT. I've been saying the same thing for a couple of weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
You forgot to check your Apple-envy at the door.
You shouldn't say that. Under any circumstances. Ever.
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
Yeah.. I think it's kind of low but necessary. Glad that they removed them now.
Honestly, it probably was because of legal threats. The videos may have been faked. They did not even bother to cover the antenna in the top of the Droid X for example, yet they show this mysterious video of its bars dropping, but no one can seem to recreate what Apple has done.
Legal threats require more than conjecture and the links I posted from non Apple sources show that phones are affected by hand placement, user manuals have also warned of this issue for over a decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble
Look, I am not saying there are not phones out there that do not truly have an issue with hand placement. I have seen very convincing videos such as someone running a download speed test while demonstrating a bad spot to hold. Some of the phones Apple put up videos for really do have this problem, but some of the others do not appear to be affected to the extent that the Apple videos show.
Just like not all iPhone 4's are affected to the extent that the videos that started all this show.
Game over, nothing more to see here, move along folks.
Apple just pointed out the hypocrisy that other smart phone manufacturers were maintaining. And I think it was a reality check for everyone else. No one is perfect, no one's smart phone is perfect either. I think Apple handle the whole "antennagate" with class and resolution.
Apple: if you have any integrity, bring back Field Test Mode.
Why? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsm
Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?
Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.
All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.
As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.
Comical.
QFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
Apple was guilty of false advertising.
What false advertising? Please be specific.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
And let the rest of the world think that the iPhone was unique in suffering from antenna issues while the competitors were running full page ads making fun of the iPhone? That would be an insanely stupid response.
Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
They did stand up to the problem by pointing out the truth, not laying down and letting the zealots ride roughshod all over them.
Where did they "lay blame on others"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?
Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.
All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.
As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.
Comical.
i have to agree. and now they've done their job, and the issue has been shown to be a very minor one when on a decent network, they're redundant.
In my own "testing" I found that I couldn't even reproduce my own results. I tried holding the phone different ways both in and out of the case and found a inexplicable lack of consistency. In worst case scenarios I had bars go down one time, and up the next. There are so many variables in play that the best one can hope for are macro results. Zeroing in micro on one video of one instance is probably futile. Do enough tests and shoot enough video and you can make any phone do anything. Either way it helped Apple, I think. It instilled their own FUD about their critics.
That is what it felt like to me too. Fight FUD with FUD. The real question is did they have any other choice? I hate FUD as much as the next guy, but the media didn't want to put the issue in context and made the problem out to be a whole lot worse then it was in reality. It is always hard to reason with the irrational. These tactics are easier to forgive from someone backed in to the corner (and the other phone makers threw the first stone anyway).
Like Tiger Woods, the manufactured image has been soiled. They could have easily gotten in front of the problem early but they decided to deny it until it blew up in their faces. Apple obviously did not test both the hardware or software sufficiently and acted like Bill Clinton when the soiled red dress was produced. Now the 4G is cursed and the 3G and 3GS customers, me included are stuck with poor performing iPhones.
They should never had mentioned the other phones because it only made themselves look bad. I suspect that Apples Legal Dept. failed to advice them that doing so would expose them to legal actions. Besides, it is poor form to criticize your opponent in sport or business, it brings you down to their level.
Why [bring back Field Test Mode]? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.
Bravo! You do a stupendous shuck-and-jive, but it's really unnecessary...
Field Test Mode isn't as complexicated as you suggest. Bring back Field Test Mode, so even nudnik fanboys can show all of us whiners how we were so terribly wrong to complain about iPhone 4 signal attenuation.
Except that wouldn't happen. Field Test Mode would expose the performance of the iPhone 4 antenna and expose Apple's tactics. Ergo Apple will not bring back Field Test Mode. Perhaps someone will do it in a jailbreak system, though. I'll bet you lay awake quivering over that possibility.
Apple lacks the integrity to include Field Test Mode itself on the iPhone 4.
They did stand up to the problem by pointing out the truth, not laying down and letting the zealots ride roughshod all over them.
Where did they "lay blame on others"?
By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?
It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?
Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.
Regs, Jarkko
P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
So how come when I tried it on a couple of iPhone 4's on different networks nothing happened?
I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there.
Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?
You are just babbling nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?
It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?
Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.
Regs, Jarkko
P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional.
C'mon, the business world is not a bunch of kids on the playground saying please and thank-you and sharing their lunch boxes It's adults and there's billions of dollars at stake, and if someone attacks your brand you need to send a message by attacking theirs right back. Now that the message has been sent the videos can be taken down. Also, some of those other companies were trying to make out that their products were immune which was BS.
So how come when I tried it on a couple of iPhone 4's on different networks nothing happened? I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there. Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?
You are just babbling nonsense.
"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.
The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.
I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
If I can't reproduce it there is no issue for me, he's babbling nonsense to me and incidentally to anyone else who cannot reproduce the issue, which seems to be a vast majority.
Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.
The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.
I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
If I can't reproduce it there is no issue for me, he's babbling nonsense to me and incidentally to anyone else who cannot reproduce the issue, which seems to be a vast majority.
Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.
I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.
It has been hypothesised that bridging two antennas on an iPhone 4 with a fingertip detunes them so that there is a noticeable loss in reception.
An experiment was set up to test the hypothesis, results were recorded and showed that no observable effect occurs to an iPhone 4 when the antennas are bridged with a fingertip.
Hypothesis.
Touching a point on the lower left hand corner of an iPhone 4 so that the adjacent strips of metal which form the dual antennas separated by a narrow black band are bridged by a fingertip causes the iPhone 4 to lose signal and drop calls.
Experiment.
Three subjects were instructed to hold an iPhone 4 in one hand and apply a finger tip to the two piece antenna structure in the lower left corner in such a way that the black band separating the two antennas was bridged by the fingertip.
Two iPhone 4's were used in the experiment both newly activated, one on the Vodafone Australia network the other on Virgin Australia using the Optus network.
Results
Observation 1. Subject A using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 2. Subject B using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 3. Subject C using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 4. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 5. Subject B using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 6. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Conclusion
Touching the bottom left corner of an iPhone 4 in such a way that the two pieces of metal on either side of a black dividing strip are connected via a finger tip has no observable effect on the iPhone 4's reception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.
Comments
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
QFT. I've been saying the same thing for a couple of weeks.
You forgot to check your Apple-envy at the door.
You shouldn't say that. Under any circumstances. Ever.
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
Yeah.. I think it's kind of low but necessary. Glad that they removed them now.
Honestly, it probably was because of legal threats. The videos may have been faked. They did not even bother to cover the antenna in the top of the Droid X for example, yet they show this mysterious video of its bars dropping, but no one can seem to recreate what Apple has done.
Legal threats require more than conjecture and the links I posted from non Apple sources show that phones are affected by hand placement, user manuals have also warned of this issue for over a decade.
Look, I am not saying there are not phones out there that do not truly have an issue with hand placement. I have seen very convincing videos such as someone running a download speed test while demonstrating a bad spot to hold. Some of the phones Apple put up videos for really do have this problem, but some of the others do not appear to be affected to the extent that the Apple videos show.
Just like not all iPhone 4's are affected to the extent that the videos that started all this show.
Game over, nothing more to see here, move along folks.
Apple: if you have any integrity, bring back Field Test Mode.
Why? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.
Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?
Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.
All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.
As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.
Comical.
QFT
Apple was guilty of false advertising.
What false advertising? Please be specific.
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional. I sometimes wonder if Apple still thinks that it is a Start-Up company and not one of the largest tech companies in the world. Take the high road, take care of your customers and take the profit to the bank.
And let the rest of the world think that the iPhone was unique in suffering from antenna issues while the competitors were running full page ads making fun of the iPhone? That would be an insanely stupid response.
Good. It was getting lame.
Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
Where did they "lay blame on others"?
Agreed. Lame and TACKY. This is the kind of nonsense that Apple needs to stay away from. All I got from it is the idea that Apple was suffering from sour grapes and was trying to take any and everyone down with them. Tacky. They need to stand up to the problem without trying to lay blame on others.
Who was taking out FULL PAGE ADS in the New York Times taking advantage of the iPhone antenna hysteria?
Apples competitors were asking for it and they got it.
All the whiners were loving it when Apple was doing nothing and getting hammered by the idiots in the tech media and retards on message boards like these.
As soon as Apple started fighting back those same people were "outraged" by what Apple was doing.
Comical.
i have to agree. and now they've done their job, and the issue has been shown to be a very minor one when on a decent network, they're redundant.
In my own "testing" I found that I couldn't even reproduce my own results. I tried holding the phone different ways both in and out of the case and found a inexplicable lack of consistency. In worst case scenarios I had bars go down one time, and up the next. There are so many variables in play that the best one can hope for are macro results. Zeroing in micro on one video of one instance is probably futile. Do enough tests and shoot enough video and you can make any phone do anything. Either way it helped Apple, I think. It instilled their own FUD about their critics.
That is what it felt like to me too. Fight FUD with FUD. The real question is did they have any other choice? I hate FUD as much as the next guy, but the media didn't want to put the issue in context and made the problem out to be a whole lot worse then it was in reality. It is always hard to reason with the irrational. These tactics are easier to forgive from someone backed in to the corner (and the other phone makers threw the first stone anyway).
I would say customers pointed first...
Good point, but we were only comparing Apple and other manufacturers.
They should never had mentioned the other phones because it only made themselves look bad. I suspect that Apples Legal Dept. failed to advice them that doing so would expose them to legal actions. Besides, it is poor form to criticize your opponent in sport or business, it brings you down to their level.
Good. It was getting lame.
Do you go to that page so often it was getting lame?
But now the single video still there is not lame after watching it how many times?
Why [bring back Field Test Mode]? End users typically don't know what it means or how it works. People who DO need that information have more sophisticated test equipment than FTM. The fact that a tiny number of geeks like playing with FTM isn't justification for including it.
Bravo! You do a stupendous shuck-and-jive, but it's really unnecessary...
Field Test Mode isn't as complexicated as you suggest. Bring back Field Test Mode, so even nudnik fanboys can show all of us whiners how we were so terribly wrong to complain about iPhone 4 signal attenuation.
Except that wouldn't happen. Field Test Mode would expose the performance of the iPhone 4 antenna and expose Apple's tactics. Ergo Apple will not bring back Field Test Mode. Perhaps someone will do it in a jailbreak system, though. I'll bet you lay awake quivering over that possibility.
Apple lacks the integrity to include Field Test Mode itself on the iPhone 4.
They did stand up to the problem by pointing out the truth, not laying down and letting the zealots ride roughshod all over them.
Where did they "lay blame on others"?
By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?
It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?
Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.
Regs, Jarkko
P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there.
Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?
You are just babbling nonsense.
By hiding their own antennae grounding problem by focusing on a well known issue instead?
It's a bit different if a single finger in a normal grip (not death grip) causes the effective length of the antenna to change, thus changing the reception characteristics vs. adding an RF insulating layer on top of the antenna with a "death grip". Two totally different issues of which the other is IP4 specific, the other is just normal physics. Take an FM radio, touch it's antenna. Hear any change?
Try shrouding any phone in thick aluminum/aluminium foil, see what happens. It's the death grip issue, just a more pronounced insulation of the antenna.
Regs, Jarkko
P.S. I'm not replying specifically to hill60. Just to the fact that most seem to be happy with Apple's deflection of the actual issue (that being the exposed antenna which can be grounded by touch) to a standard issue (if you insulate an antenna, you attenuate the signal).
I love Apple, but the fact that Apple stepped down to the level of it's competitors seemed childish. All they needed to do was give out the bumper, and not bring other companies into it. It did not seem professional.
C'mon, the business world is not a bunch of kids on the playground saying please and thank-you and sharing their lunch boxes
So how come when I tried it on a couple of iPhone 4's on different networks nothing happened? I don't have insulated fingers as they work a capacitive screen so there is electricity there. Why are so many people having trouble reproducing the "issue"?
You are just babbling nonsense.
"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.
The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.
I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.
"Babbling nonsense"... are you serious? Jahonen's comment was the most succinct and well written explanation of the issue I've ever read. The FM radio antenna analogy is apt and accurate.
The answer to your question, I believe, is mainly that it depends on the signal quality and strength in your area. Sticking with the FM radio analogy, touching the antenna won't always change the sound quality. It depends on the quality and strength of the FM signal.
I've also heard that someone with greasy, sweaty and fat hands will detune an antenna more than a thin person with dry, clean skin. I'm not sure if the effect would be pronounced enough to be a factor however.
If I can't reproduce it there is no issue for me, he's babbling nonsense to me and incidentally to anyone else who cannot reproduce the issue, which seems to be a vast majority.
Babble babble babble iPhone 4 is acting as an advanced Theremin tuning and detuning like other phones babble, babble, gobbledygook in a quasi-scientific bulldust kind of way.
I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.
Synopsis
It has been hypothesised that bridging two antennas on an iPhone 4 with a fingertip detunes them so that there is a noticeable loss in reception.
An experiment was set up to test the hypothesis, results were recorded and showed that no observable effect occurs to an iPhone 4 when the antennas are bridged with a fingertip.
Hypothesis.
Touching a point on the lower left hand corner of an iPhone 4 so that the adjacent strips of metal which form the dual antennas separated by a narrow black band are bridged by a fingertip causes the iPhone 4 to lose signal and drop calls.
Experiment.
Three subjects were instructed to hold an iPhone 4 in one hand and apply a finger tip to the two piece antenna structure in the lower left corner in such a way that the black band separating the two antennas was bridged by the fingertip.
Two iPhone 4's were used in the experiment both newly activated, one on the Vodafone Australia network the other on Virgin Australia using the Optus network.
Results
Observation 1. Subject A using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 2. Subject B using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 3. Subject C using iPhone 4 A, Vodafone Australia SIM card 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 4. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 5. Subject B using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Observation 6. Subject A using iPhone 4 B, Virgin Australia SIM card on the Optus network 5 bars showing.
Touching the point resulted in 5 bars showing.
Conclusion
Touching the bottom left corner of an iPhone 4 in such a way that the two pieces of metal on either side of a black dividing strip are connected via a finger tip has no observable effect on the iPhone 4's reception.
I know the concepts are hard to grasp but if you're ever going to have a chance at understanding them it is now, so (assuming you actually want to know) I'd suggest putting a bit of effort in.