First of all, thanks for making me laugh. Ramis, Murray and Akyroyd are in league of their own.
Sadly, there will always be those that skimp on the very things they should be concerned about. Buying a $3,000 computer, but getting the cheapest surge protecter (or worse, not knowing the difference), cables, charging units, etc.
It's why dumps like WalMart exist.
At the other end of that same spectrum are ripoff artists such as MonsterCable. They prey on the ignorance of those that do not know the difference between their $300 surge protector "specifically designed for home theatre", whatever that means, and one sufficient for the average users needs. When a $30 protector, with a decent joule rating, will do just fine.
That is not to say that you can't get quality at a better price point. OWC and Monoprice are two solid companies with very low margins. But they are the exception - not the rule.
Apple protects the consumer with quality products and offers guidance on hows items are supposed to work together. The two others I mentioned will help you to a point, but much of it will be on your own. In other words, you're expected to know what you do or do not need and why, as well as what level of quality is needed and why.
So apple shouldn't develop their products and introduce new technologies any more? You've got your year old car adapter, so product development must now stop? Seriously?! And Introducing new products, n3w technologies and making improvements makes the company big brother? Did anyone force you to upgrade? If you want to keep your legacy accessories, keep your legacy technology. Simple.
Nonsense.
People criticise product quality. Apple strive to improve it, both internally and through third party companies and they still get criticised?
Edit: ps, your new phone came with a cable, use that. Or take the (free) bumper off to charge using your old (free) cable. What's the big deal?!
Laughable. If you want to spend ninety cents on a cable, then enjoy. If this develops a fault and fries your computer/peripheral, you get everything you deserve.
You get what you pay for.
Dude! Read my post carefully before mouthing off!
First, I am as much of an Apple Fanboy as you are, except I am not someone who is going to agree what Steve Job says or does. Even Steve Jobs said that Apple can be falable.
If you remove that rosy glasses and read my comment about incompatible cables - I was referreing to Apple's incompatibility with their own cables and with the bumber and not some 3rd party cables as you claim.
What does little plastic added to make in incompatible has to do with innovation? It is like additing a plastic jacket on the wall plug to making it hard to insert the cable in AC outlet
Yes, I don't like some of the chezzy accessiories coming out Asia, which are badly manufactured. But I think it is lame for Apple to go after them. This is not the first time we see stuff coming out from there. Yes, they are inexpensive alternatives and sometimes they are worth the price.
Finally, if you are real Apple Fanboy - You certianly don't want Apple to take this path. The latest set of events had put Apple (rightfully or otherwise) into an "arrogant" category. You certainly don't want them to be added to "Bully" category.
I am an Apple fan, promoter, and also a stock holder in your company. I was by your side, when you dealt with the antenna issue and when you were trying to push Adobe to fix their flash problems. But, this latest stunt, I don't approve of. I do agree with your concerns about quality of some of this vendor. I don't agree with the fact that you trying to make your cables and accessories incompatible with earlier versions. I just upgraded my iPhone to latest version, but forcing me to go buy new car adapters and cable is just not cool. The problem is that you are making your own accessories incompatibles in the process. For example, thanks for the free iPhone 4 bumper, but guess what, now I have to go buy a new set of docking cables. I have one adapter and the cable that came with the iPhone 4 at office, which works fine. I took my set from my older iPhone 3G and kept it at home for charging. Here comes the bumper and I am happy and excited to install it. It looks great! But as soon as I try to charge my phone using my iPhone 3G cable and "Wham!" I can't anymore. The plastic on the bumper case is blocking to completely made the contact. So, now I have a problem on hand - Either I sand down the plastic on the bumper, or remove the bumper when charging, or spend $30 bugs to get new charger/new cable. So my $30 free bumper is actually costing me more. You have just created incompatibility with your own product. How can you expect all these small companies to compete?
Do you remember that TV spot you did when you introduced the new Mac? With this latest stunt you are now looking like the guy on the big screen - The "Big Brother"! Please don't take this road!
What a lame over-reaction! Wah!
Besides the absolute idiocy and hyperbole of saying you are "with him" but are considering thinking Steve Jobs is "big brother" for making an incompatible cable, you're leaving out some important information. The cables that *don't* work with the bumper that everyone is complaining about this month, are for the most part the self-same "fake accessories" that Apple is trying to stop. If you have an Apple made cable that doesn't fit, then it's a very old Apple cable (old in computer terms that is).
There is nothing "big brotherish" about what Apple is doing. I've seen these accessories for sale all over my home town since we have a huge connection to China here being as we are on the on the West Coast and have a roughly 30% chinese population. They look like Apple chargers, they have the logos, they have the accessory program stickers and logos, but they are made out of crap metal and toxic plastic and will either poison your child if they chew on the cable or burn your house down when you aren't home some day.
This is what the accessories market would look like if China had it's way. Completely unregulated, and "buyer beware."
I for one don't want that. Any crackdown on the illegal, dangerous junk that pours out of China on a daily basis is fine by me.
I would have agreed if these third parties would have used "Made for iPod" to market their accessories without paying apple the relevant "royalty".
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station , typical Apple (Just give us the money, some how/someway, we should be getting commission on every thing which starts with "i" ).
Just waiting for my contract to get over and I am off to Android,can't tolerate this policing any more.
Apple has take a number of accessory makers to court, filing a complaint that says "many are of inferior quality and reliability, raising significant concerns over compatibility with and damage to Apple?s products."
The suit, detailed in a report by Bloomberg, cited an example of a user who complained that a battery charger actually drained the battery rather than replenishing its charge.
The report noted that Apple earns a royalty of around 20 to 25 percent from licensed accessories branded under the "Made for iPod" program, according to analyst Shaw Wu of Kaufman Bros. Unauthorized vendors who create iPod accessories not only deprive Apple of those revenues, but also violate the company's patents and expose Apple to liability from an implied endorsement.
The suit names Accstation, Boxware Corporation, Crazyondigital, Eforcity Corporation, Everydaysource, Itrimming, and United Integral, and could expand to include twenty additional companies.
Apple has incrementally modified the specifications required by new generations of iPods and iPhones, forcing vendors to make regular changes to their products to remain compliant. For example, the company has dropped Firewire charging and modified how devices output video through the standard Dock connector, potentially leaving some cables or docks physically compatible but non functional.
Software changes in iOS 4 have also introduced problems for users with car connection kits and certain docks, causing previously functional hardware to stop working correctly. Maintaining device compatibility is easier when manufacturers are kept in a tight relationship with Apple under its licensing program.
However, ?there is a very fine line? between Apple maintaining control over its gadgets and anticompetitive behavior, attorney Mark Kesslen told Bloomberg. ?You have to be very careful.?
UNTOLD BILLIONS are made from 3rd and 4th party suppliers who feed at the apple dinner table . Invited guests lay 30 cents on the dollar to get an inside scoop on form factor changes
these companies sometimes charge 30 bucks for a cheap piece of plastic
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station , typical Apple (Just give us the money, some how/someway, we should be getting commission on every thing which starts with "i" ).
No no no no no no.
Horrible analogy. Apple is suing third party vendors who infringe on its patents by selling unauthorized accessories. These vendors also market their products as endorsed by Apple when they are in fact not. A number of these products have allegedly damaged Apple's products.
How, on God's green earth, is wanting to maintain high standards across your product line a dumb decision?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaiwaah
Just waiting for my contract to get over and I am off to Android,can't tolerate this policing any more.
The restrictions you feel are likely the result of your own inability to reason - switching devices won't help.
Oh please, you have no idea what most consumers think. Chances are, most consumers will never even hear about this. And judging by the empty shelves, it's obvious which device consumers have chosen.
I never said consumers. I said customers. I am one of those customers and I know many more who feel just like I have written.
I have also mentioned the feeling amongst some developers about the App store policies. While there is some agreement that the policies are not entirely bad, e.i. the need to use apple approved tools (ban of flash compiling), and the ban of some apps after they were released etc, the WAY it was done
- with almost no warning- is certainly not a good policy.
Someone has mentioned that Apple started suing these accessory makers a while back, well that is good, but a fresh round should not have been on the heals of saying to the customers Apple is not perfect.
I would have agreed if these third parties would have used "Made for iPod" to market their accessories without paying apple the relevant "royalty".
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station , typical Apple (Just give us the money, some how/someway, we should be getting commission on every thing which starts with "i" ).
My vote for insane analogy of the week. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with Apple's situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I never said consumers. I said customers. I am one of those customers and I know many more who feel just like I have written.
That's nice. Who cares?
The fact is that it's a free market. If enough people stop buying from Apple, Apple has to change. If people continue to buy from Apple at an accelerating rate, then Apple has probably been making the right decisions.
Apple has no obligation to satisfy every whiner out there - nor should they.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I have also mentioned the feeling amongst some developers about the App store policies. While there is some agreement that the policies are not entirely bad, e.i. the need to use apple approved tools (ban of flash compiling), and the ban of some apps after they were released etc, the WAY it was done
- with almost no warning- is certainly not a good policy.
Same thing. If developers don't like the policies, they can try to make more money elsewhere. In reality, the money is in the Apple AppStore, so developers are, by and large, choosing to continue to develop there. Many of the ones who left where thrown out for lack of quality of their apps or failure to follow the rules. Very, very few apps have voluntarily left.
As an aside, I think it's hilarious that Android fans can talk about Apple having a monopoly with 96% of paid app sales while at the same time bragging about how well the Android app store is doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
Someone has mentioned that Apple started suing these accessory makers a while back, well that is good, but a fresh round should not have been on the heals of saying to the customers Apple is not perfect.
Why are the two events even remotely related?
First, you can bet that these suits have been in preparation for some time.
Second, consumers are not going to relate the antenna 'issue' with Apple suing people stealing their patented technology (sure, some of the Anti-Apple whiners will try to tie the concepts, but who cares about them?)
The report noted that Apple earns a royalty of around 20 to 25 percent from licensed accessories branded under the "Made for iPod" program, according to analyst Shaw Wu of Kaufman Bros.
I'm not totally clear on whether it is really publicly known that Apple takes a 20-25% royalty or whether Shaw Wu thinks Apple takes 20-25% royalty. Also not clear is whether that's off list price, dealer price or distributor/wholesale price. At any rate, that's a pretty big bite, if it's off list price, then that's possibly as much as half the money that the wholesale price of the product. Being from Shaw Wu, it's a suspicious figure from a suspicious figure. He's wrong a lot more often then he is right: http://guides.macrumors.com/Shaw_Wu_%28Analyst%29
I know at one time the rights to make a dock connector device was reputed to be a fixed price per accessory, I recall it was supposedly in the range of $2-$4, but I know that's changed, I hadn't heard any new figures.
The Made for iPod, Made for iPhone, and Made for iPad logos mean that an electronic accessory has been designed to connect specifically to iPod, iPhone, or iPad and has been certified by the developer to meet Apple performance standards."
Are these logos present on the packaging of the offending products? I haven't seen or heard of any specific examples where the graphic itself was used.
I don't believe the level of "Ignorance" and "arrogance" coming from some of the fanboys here! I am glad they don't speak for Apple, because I do know some Apple employees and they are certainly not arrogant asses that I am finding here.
I don't believe the level of "Ignorance" and "arrogance" coming from some of the fanboys here! I am glad they don't speak for Apple, because I do know some Apple employees and they are certainly not arrogant asses that I am finding here.
Why don't you point out the ignorant posts rather than simply slinging mud endlessly?
People have said that Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property - which is a true statement, both legally and morally (at least within the context of the U.S. market economy).
Where is the ignorance and arrogance (other than, of course, from the Apple-haters like you who think that your mindless attacks are important).
Why do you need a license to place a true statement on your box?
I think it would help to read the thread. It's not about whether it's a true statement, it's using a trademark without permission or out of compliance with the requirements.
Comments
Cats and Dogs living together. Mass hysteria!
First of all, thanks for making me laugh. Ramis, Murray and Akyroyd are in league of their own.
Sadly, there will always be those that skimp on the very things they should be concerned about. Buying a $3,000 computer, but getting the cheapest surge protecter (or worse, not knowing the difference), cables, charging units, etc.
It's why dumps like WalMart exist.
At the other end of that same spectrum are ripoff artists such as MonsterCable. They prey on the ignorance of those that do not know the difference between their $300 surge protector "specifically designed for home theatre", whatever that means, and one sufficient for the average users needs. When a $30 protector, with a decent joule rating, will do just fine.
That is not to say that you can't get quality at a better price point. OWC and Monoprice are two solid companies with very low margins. But they are the exception - not the rule.
Apple protects the consumer with quality products and offers guidance on hows items are supposed to work together. The two others I mentioned will help you to a point, but much of it will be on your own. In other words, you're expected to know what you do or do not need and why, as well as what level of quality is needed and why.
So apple shouldn't develop their products and introduce new technologies any more? You've got your year old car adapter, so product development must now stop? Seriously?! And Introducing new products, n3w technologies and making improvements makes the company big brother? Did anyone force you to upgrade? If you want to keep your legacy accessories, keep your legacy technology. Simple.
Nonsense.
People criticise product quality. Apple strive to improve it, both internally and through third party companies and they still get criticised?
Edit: ps, your new phone came with a cable, use that. Or take the (free) bumper off to charge using your old (free) cable. What's the big deal?!
Laughable. If you want to spend ninety cents on a cable, then enjoy. If this develops a fault and fries your computer/peripheral, you get everything you deserve.
You get what you pay for.
Dude! Read my post carefully before mouthing off!
Dude! Read my post carefully before mouthing off!
You lost me at "Dude!".
Dear Mr. Steve Jobs,
I am an Apple fan, promoter, and also a stock holder in your company. I was by your side, when you dealt with the antenna issue and when you were trying to push Adobe to fix their flash problems. But, this latest stunt, I don't approve of. I do agree with your concerns about quality of some of this vendor. I don't agree with the fact that you trying to make your cables and accessories incompatible with earlier versions. I just upgraded my iPhone to latest version, but forcing me to go buy new car adapters and cable is just not cool. The problem is that you are making your own accessories incompatibles in the process. For example, thanks for the free iPhone 4 bumper, but guess what, now I have to go buy a new set of docking cables. I have one adapter and the cable that came with the iPhone 4 at office, which works fine. I took my set from my older iPhone 3G and kept it at home for charging. Here comes the bumper and I am happy and excited to install it. It looks great! But as soon as I try to charge my phone using my iPhone 3G cable and "Wham!" I can't anymore. The plastic on the bumper case is blocking to completely made the contact. So, now I have a problem on hand - Either I sand down the plastic on the bumper, or remove the bumper when charging, or spend $30 bugs to get new charger/new cable. So my $30 free bumper is actually costing me more. You have just created incompatibility with your own product. How can you expect all these small companies to compete?
Do you remember that TV spot you did when you introduced the new Mac? With this latest stunt you are now looking like the guy on the big screen - The "Big Brother"! Please don't take this road!
What a lame over-reaction! Wah!
Besides the absolute idiocy and hyperbole of saying you are "with him" but are considering thinking Steve Jobs is "big brother" for making an incompatible cable, you're leaving out some important information. The cables that *don't* work with the bumper that everyone is complaining about this month, are for the most part the self-same "fake accessories" that Apple is trying to stop. If you have an Apple made cable that doesn't fit, then it's a very old Apple cable (old in computer terms that is).
There is nothing "big brotherish" about what Apple is doing. I've seen these accessories for sale all over my home town since we have a huge connection to China here being as we are on the on the West Coast and have a roughly 30% chinese population. They look like Apple chargers, they have the logos, they have the accessory program stickers and logos, but they are made out of crap metal and toxic plastic and will either poison your child if they chew on the cable or burn your house down when you aren't home some day.
This is what the accessories market would look like if China had it's way. Completely unregulated, and "buyer beware."
I for one don't want that. Any crackdown on the illegal, dangerous junk that pours out of China on a daily basis is fine by me.
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station
Just waiting for my contract to get over and I am off to Android,can't tolerate this policing any more.
Apple has take a number of accessory makers to court, filing a complaint that says "many are of inferior quality and reliability, raising significant concerns over compatibility with and damage to Apple?s products."
The suit, detailed in a report by Bloomberg, cited an example of a user who complained that a battery charger actually drained the battery rather than replenishing its charge.
The report noted that Apple earns a royalty of around 20 to 25 percent from licensed accessories branded under the "Made for iPod" program, according to analyst Shaw Wu of Kaufman Bros. Unauthorized vendors who create iPod accessories not only deprive Apple of those revenues, but also violate the company's patents and expose Apple to liability from an implied endorsement.
The suit names Accstation, Boxware Corporation, Crazyondigital, Eforcity Corporation, Everydaysource, Itrimming, and United Integral, and could expand to include twenty additional companies.
Apple has incrementally modified the specifications required by new generations of iPods and iPhones, forcing vendors to make regular changes to their products to remain compliant. For example, the company has dropped Firewire charging and modified how devices output video through the standard Dock connector, potentially leaving some cables or docks physically compatible but non functional.
Software changes in iOS 4 have also introduced problems for users with car connection kits and certain docks, causing previously functional hardware to stop working correctly. Maintaining device compatibility is easier when manufacturers are kept in a tight relationship with Apple under its licensing program.
However, ?there is a very fine line? between Apple maintaining control over its gadgets and anticompetitive behavior, attorney Mark Kesslen told Bloomberg. ?You have to be very careful.?
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
UNTOLD BILLIONS are made from 3rd and 4th party suppliers who feed at the apple dinner table . Invited guests lay 30 cents on the dollar to get an inside scoop on form factor changes
these companies sometimes charge 30 bucks for a cheap piece of plastic
yes it works but the profit is ....nuts
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station
No no no no no no.
Horrible analogy. Apple is suing third party vendors who infringe on its patents by selling unauthorized accessories. These vendors also market their products as endorsed by Apple when they are in fact not. A number of these products have allegedly damaged Apple's products.
How, on God's green earth, is wanting to maintain high standards across your product line a dumb decision?
Just waiting for my contract to get over and I am off to Android,can't tolerate this policing any more.
The restrictions you feel are likely the result of your own inability to reason - switching devices won't help.
Oh please, you have no idea what most consumers think. Chances are, most consumers will never even hear about this. And judging by the empty shelves, it's obvious which device consumers have chosen.
I never said consumers. I said customers. I am one of those customers and I know many more who feel just like I have written.
I have also mentioned the feeling amongst some developers about the App store policies. While there is some agreement that the policies are not entirely bad, e.i. the need to use apple approved tools (ban of flash compiling), and the ban of some apps after they were released etc, the WAY it was done
- with almost no warning- is certainly not a good policy.
Someone has mentioned that Apple started suing these accessory makers a while back, well that is good, but a fresh round should not have been on the heals of saying to the customers Apple is not perfect.
I would have agreed if these third parties would have used "Made for iPod" to market their accessories without paying apple the relevant "royalty".
However if that's not the case, then isn't it similar to "Ford" saying:
That if you buy a mustang and get gas from any gas station other then Wawa, then "Ford" is going to sue the gas station
My vote for insane analogy of the week. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with Apple's situation.
I never said consumers. I said customers. I am one of those customers and I know many more who feel just like I have written.
That's nice. Who cares?
The fact is that it's a free market. If enough people stop buying from Apple, Apple has to change. If people continue to buy from Apple at an accelerating rate, then Apple has probably been making the right decisions.
Apple has no obligation to satisfy every whiner out there - nor should they.
I have also mentioned the feeling amongst some developers about the App store policies. While there is some agreement that the policies are not entirely bad, e.i. the need to use apple approved tools (ban of flash compiling), and the ban of some apps after they were released etc, the WAY it was done
- with almost no warning- is certainly not a good policy.
Same thing. If developers don't like the policies, they can try to make more money elsewhere. In reality, the money is in the Apple AppStore, so developers are, by and large, choosing to continue to develop there. Many of the ones who left where thrown out for lack of quality of their apps or failure to follow the rules. Very, very few apps have voluntarily left.
As an aside, I think it's hilarious that Android fans can talk about Apple having a monopoly with 96% of paid app sales while at the same time bragging about how well the Android app store is doing.
Someone has mentioned that Apple started suing these accessory makers a while back, well that is good, but a fresh round should not have been on the heals of saying to the customers Apple is not perfect.
Why are the two events even remotely related?
First, you can bet that these suits have been in preparation for some time.
Second, consumers are not going to relate the antenna 'issue' with Apple suing people stealing their patented technology (sure, some of the Anti-Apple whiners will try to tie the concepts, but who cares about them?)
The report noted that Apple earns a royalty of around 20 to 25 percent from licensed accessories branded under the "Made for iPod" program, according to analyst Shaw Wu of Kaufman Bros.
I'm not totally clear on whether it is really publicly known that Apple takes a 20-25% royalty or whether Shaw Wu thinks Apple takes 20-25% royalty. Also not clear is whether that's off list price, dealer price or distributor/wholesale price. At any rate, that's a pretty big bite, if it's off list price, then that's possibly as much as half the money that the wholesale price of the product. Being from Shaw Wu, it's a suspicious figure from a suspicious figure. He's wrong a lot more often then he is right: http://guides.macrumors.com/Shaw_Wu_%28Analyst%29
I know at one time the rights to make a dock connector device was reputed to be a fixed price per accessory, I recall it was supposedly in the range of $2-$4, but I know that's changed, I hadn't heard any new figures.
The Made for iPod logo is a trademark. They are not just a "simple phrase".
http://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/
"MFi Logos
The Made for iPod, Made for iPhone, and Made for iPad logos mean that an electronic accessory has been designed to connect specifically to iPod, iPhone, or iPad and has been certified by the developer to meet Apple performance standards."
Are these logos present on the packaging of the offending products? I haven't seen or heard of any specific examples where the graphic itself was used.
Dear Apple, please stop damaging your own goddamn reputation and FIX THE FUCKING PROXIMITY SENSOR ALREADY!
</rant>
Of course, cos they've stopped looking at the Proximity sensor issue to deal with this. Probably not!
I don't believe the level of "Ignorance" and "arrogance" coming from some of the fanboys here! I am glad they don't speak for Apple, because I do know some Apple employees and they are certainly not arrogant asses that I am finding here.
Why don't you point out the ignorant posts rather than simply slinging mud endlessly?
People have said that Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property - which is a true statement, both legally and morally (at least within the context of the U.S. market economy).
Where is the ignorance and arrogance (other than, of course, from the Apple-haters like you who think that your mindless attacks are important).
Making a USB cable is not rocket science.
That's what you'd think, but for some reason, a cheap $1 usb cable I bought on Amazon takes about twice as long to charge my 3gs than the oem cable
Protecting a monopoly?
Right, Apple has a monopoly on their own products. So does everybody else, but that makes Apple corrupt.
It's really just a Mafia style shakedown- with Apple collecting exorbitant fees as its "protection" money.
Or ... watching out for their customers.
After a bit of digging, it looks like they are using Made for iPod without a license.
Why do you need a license to place a true statement on your box?
Why do you need a license to place a true statement on your box?
I think it would help to read the thread. It's not about whether it's a true statement, it's using a trademark without permission or out of compliance with the requirements.