<strong>I am betting that the kid has been spanked before and is aware that the disapproving stare will mean the paddle is coming next if they don't straighten up.</strong><hr></blockquote>It's hard to believe that spanking is absolutely the only way to discipline - that every child who behaves is spanked. This seems to be what you're saying.
And I guess someone else could say you're not spanking hard or often enough to have really disciplined kids. Parents who simply give swats on the behind aren't really disciplining - you need to put some fear into those kids.
I have a cousin who follows some crazy book that you're supposed to use a switch. She has this stick and follows her kids around (one is a baby) and swats them with it when they do wrong.
Is their behavior any better than other kids? Nope. And her older child (about 3) is always hitting her when he gets frustrated - I wonder why?
I was a father for 14 months once. He was a 5 month old foster child who was a crack baby and was supposed to have had AIDS but didn't (thank God). I was nuts about that kid.
I spanked him once. He was a toddler by then. It involved zero physical pain. He had a diaper on - there's a lot of padding there. And I didn't really spank him very hard anyway. He cried but I think it was only for the same reason he cried whenever I was setting boundaries. He didn't like being told "No." Who does?
Should people spank? Probably not. That little incident wasn't the high point of my parenting career. It wasn't really all that low of a point either. It just was. Parenting is hard. It involves all of you. To me spanking seems to be what a parent does as a way of trying to shortcut the hard work of disciplining a child. I understand and don't necessaily condemn the impluse. But it's still probably not a good idea.
Spanking your kid is analogous to whacking your donkey between the eyes with a two by four. It gets his attention. That is, it's effective. That done, lesson two begins. You get more teaching done that way.
Hmmm... I was almost never spanked, but I was an unussually obedient/timid kid. And don't you just think this spanking on the bum is weird? In the face, dammit! And right away. It should be instant and reactive; not some kind of ritual. It's an attention getter, that one. If a little pain is in order, then yeah, a shot or two on the bum is better than knocking the kid out.
What bothers me more is the level of social intrusion. Good parents who spank their kids are nearly at the mercy of very intrusive, and generally badly trained, social agencies.
<strong>Hmmm... I was almost never spanked, but I was an unussually obedient/timid kid. And don't you just think this spanking on the bum is weird? In the face, dammit! And right away. It should be instant and reactive; not some kind of ritual. It's an attention getter, that one. If a little pain is in order, then yeah, a shot or two on the bum is better than knocking the kid out.
What bothers me more is the level of social intrusion. Good parents who spank their kids are nearly at the mercy of very intrusive, and generally badly trained, social agencies.
You see, that is going too far. Spanking is used to get attention. You spank on the butt for tw0 reasons. One, It stings like heck if applied properly, and two, it leaves no lasting damage to either the childs body or his ego.
Smack them in the face and you show that you do not respect someone at all. Do it to a child and it could be devastating both physically and emotionally.
I do however beleive that social services does need to butt out of when a parent does spank their child. Unless it happens to be a situation where the parent is taking it too far into the realm of abuse.
<strong>I was a father for 14 months once. He was a 5 month old foster child who was a crack baby and was supposed to have had AIDS but didn't (thank God). I was nuts about that kid.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd never seen you mention that before, roger - that's pretty amazing.
I don't think so. Twice my mother smacked me in the face. Both times I had managed to get myself into a dangerous situation where my hystreria was causing me further injury. Both times a quick smack in the face got my attention long enough to untangle me.
A smack on the face is by no means 'too far'. Any reasonably intelligent adult can regulate the force they use (and the frequency) to produce just the stunning effect without pain or injury. Part of the problem with all of this is it ends up sounding like we're advocating smacking the kid for every concievable infraction. I don't think anyone is advocting that. But some timely humiliation (just like pain: not too much) now again is an invaluable child rearing tool.
I fear some of the anxiety about spanking has more to do with our own squeamish nature than concerns about child welfare. That's a very dishonest play by (I think) a lot of the anti-spanking advocates -- akin to hiding behind the children. 'Sometimes' you have to do things that aren't pleasant, spanking is one of them.
I am not sure if anyone already referred to the point I am about to make, but I think it does a pretty good job of putting spanking in the proper frame of mind.
Whether you spank you children or not is a matter of personal preference. The only caveat to whether I would find it to be an effective and just behavioral tool is the parent's emotions while administering the spanking.
If a parent spanks a child out of rage, anger, or frustration, it seems like a light form of child abuse. Spanking should not be the end result of a tough day at work, followed by seeing that your kid has drawn with crayons on the wall.
In fact, I think spanking in its best use should be a difficult process for a parent. It should be difficult to spank your child, but deemed essential because that is the discipline tool you think is best for your child.
Unfortunately, every spanking I have ever witnessed (be it in a mall wherever), the parent is always absolutely red-faced and furious. That isn't someone choosing an effective parent tooling; it is someone taking out their frustrations on a little person.
<strong>I am not sure if anyone already referred to the point I am about to make, but I think it does a pretty good job of putting spanking in the proper frame of mind.
Whether you spank you children or not is a matter of personal preference. The only caveat to whether I would find it to be an effective and just behavioral tool is the parent's emotions while administering the spanking.
If a parent spanks a child out of rage, anger, or frustration, it seems like a light form of child abuse. Spanking should not be the end result of a tough day at work, followed by seeing that your kid has drawn with crayons on the wall.
In fact, I think spanking in its best use should be a difficult process for a parent. It should be difficult to spank your child, but deemed essential because that is the discipline tool you think is best for your child.
Unfortunately, every spanking I have ever witnessed (be it in a mall wherever), the parent is always absolutely red-faced and furious. That isn't someone choosing an effective parent tooling; it is someone taking out their frustrations on a little person.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Our neighboors where hurting my family because we where jews, my father was seaking revenge against my mother, my mother hurt my elder brother, who hurt my elder sister who hit me, and then i hurt the dog.
Comments
<strong>I am betting that the kid has been spanked before and is aware that the disapproving stare will mean the paddle is coming next if they don't straighten up.</strong><hr></blockquote>It's hard to believe that spanking is absolutely the only way to discipline - that every child who behaves is spanked. This seems to be what you're saying.
And I guess someone else could say you're not spanking hard or often enough to have really disciplined kids. Parents who simply give swats on the behind aren't really disciplining - you need to put some fear into those kids.
I have a cousin who follows some crazy book that you're supposed to use a switch. She has this stick and follows her kids around (one is a baby) and swats them with it when they do wrong.
Is their behavior any better than other kids? Nope. And her older child (about 3) is always hitting her when he gets frustrated - I wonder why?
I spanked him once. He was a toddler by then. It involved zero physical pain. He had a diaper on - there's a lot of padding there. And I didn't really spank him very hard anyway. He cried but I think it was only for the same reason he cried whenever I was setting boundaries. He didn't like being told "No." Who does?
Should people spank? Probably not. That little incident wasn't the high point of my parenting career. It wasn't really all that low of a point either. It just was. Parenting is hard. It involves all of you. To me spanking seems to be what a parent does as a way of trying to shortcut the hard work of disciplining a child. I understand and don't necessaily condemn the impluse. But it's still probably not a good idea.
What bothers me more is the level of social intrusion. Good parents who spank their kids are nearly at the mercy of very intrusive, and generally badly trained, social agencies.
[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
<strong>Hmmm... I was almost never spanked, but I was an unussually obedient/timid kid. And don't you just think this spanking on the bum is weird? In the face, dammit! And right away. It should be instant and reactive; not some kind of ritual. It's an attention getter, that one. If a little pain is in order, then yeah, a shot or two on the bum is better than knocking the kid out.
What bothers me more is the level of social intrusion. Good parents who spank their kids are nearly at the mercy of very intrusive, and generally badly trained, social agencies.
[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
You see, that is going too far. Spanking is used to get attention. You spank on the butt for tw0 reasons. One, It stings like heck if applied properly, and two, it leaves no lasting damage to either the childs body or his ego.
Smack them in the face and you show that you do not respect someone at all. Do it to a child and it could be devastating both physically and emotionally.
I do however beleive that social services does need to butt out of when a parent does spank their child. Unless it happens to be a situation where the parent is taking it too far into the realm of abuse.
<strong>I was a father for 14 months once. He was a 5 month old foster child who was a crack baby and was supposed to have had AIDS but didn't (thank God). I was nuts about that kid.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd never seen you mention that before, roger - that's pretty amazing.
A smack on the face is by no means 'too far'. Any reasonably intelligent adult can regulate the force they use (and the frequency) to produce just the stunning effect without pain or injury. Part of the problem with all of this is it ends up sounding like we're advocating smacking the kid for every concievable infraction. I don't think anyone is advocting that. But some timely humiliation (just like pain: not too much) now again is an invaluable child rearing tool.
I fear some of the anxiety about spanking has more to do with our own squeamish nature than concerns about child welfare. That's a very dishonest play by (I think) a lot of the anti-spanking advocates -- akin to hiding behind the children. 'Sometimes' you have to do things that aren't pleasant, spanking is one of them.
Whether you spank you children or not is a matter of personal preference. The only caveat to whether I would find it to be an effective and just behavioral tool is the parent's emotions while administering the spanking.
If a parent spanks a child out of rage, anger, or frustration, it seems like a light form of child abuse. Spanking should not be the end result of a tough day at work, followed by seeing that your kid has drawn with crayons on the wall.
In fact, I think spanking in its best use should be a difficult process for a parent. It should be difficult to spank your child, but deemed essential because that is the discipline tool you think is best for your child.
Unfortunately, every spanking I have ever witnessed (be it in a mall wherever), the parent is always absolutely red-faced and furious. That isn't someone choosing an effective parent tooling; it is someone taking out their frustrations on a little person.
<strong>I am not sure if anyone already referred to the point I am about to make, but I think it does a pretty good job of putting spanking in the proper frame of mind.
Whether you spank you children or not is a matter of personal preference. The only caveat to whether I would find it to be an effective and just behavioral tool is the parent's emotions while administering the spanking.
If a parent spanks a child out of rage, anger, or frustration, it seems like a light form of child abuse. Spanking should not be the end result of a tough day at work, followed by seeing that your kid has drawn with crayons on the wall.
In fact, I think spanking in its best use should be a difficult process for a parent. It should be difficult to spank your child, but deemed essential because that is the discipline tool you think is best for your child.
Unfortunately, every spanking I have ever witnessed (be it in a mall wherever), the parent is always absolutely red-faced and furious. That isn't someone choosing an effective parent tooling; it is someone taking out their frustrations on a little person.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Our neighboors where hurting my family because we where jews, my father was seaking revenge against my mother, my mother hurt my elder brother, who hurt my elder sister who hit me, and then i hurt the dog.
Woody Allen (Zelig)
[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>