I know I can't believe I put that in writing. Quadra is fine it just took me a while to get use to the diehard Apple fan in him. He makes me laugh because his posts are exactly the same on Macrumors and I think he just cuts and pastes them from one site to another...LOL.
Thanks for reinforcing what everyone already knows: San Francisco networks are outdated.
Well it could be that or just the fact that uverse standard speeds are 12mb. If thats the case his iPad is getting a good download speed. I dont' know what his 3g looks like.
I would say "some other carrier" by Jan 2011. I am once again skeptical about Verizon because it has not transitioned to sim cards yet. Perhaps T-Mo will get it.
The only reason why I would say it is possible is because Apple is not #1 or #2 in terms of sales, which could promt Apple to just bite the bullet, swallow the cost of redesigning the iPhone to make it CDMA compatible (it's very tightly packed so I would assume the likelihood of finding CDMA components to fit into existing design would be kinda low, unless it's already been designed for both).
If only all carriers were GSM we wouldn't be having this stupid problem.
Why does saying something manifestly true mean I am bashing Android? Just because the apps aren't there yet, doesn't mean they won't be. Things change, especially with the sales numbers Android has been racking up lately.
There is too much smoke here not to be some fire. The WSJ report, AT&T's recent note, etc.
My wife still has her Incredible, but I returned mine to Amazon within my 30-day cancellation period. Using the old iPhone 3g (on T-Mobile) until January. If Apple doesn't do anything by then I will probably go back to an Android phone.
Gruber talked about it. Not a surprise that AI didn't say anything, since this is now AndroidSucksInsider.com, but the author perfectly argues what I have been thinking: Apple needs to move to all 3 major carriers soon in the US or it is game over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I would say "some other carrier" by Jan 2011. I am once again skeptical about Verizon because it has not transitioned to sim cards yet. Perhaps T-Mo will get it.
The only reason why I would say it is possible is because Apple is not #1 or #2 in terms of sales, which could promt Apple to just bite the bullet, swallow the cost of redesigning the iPhone to make it CDMA compatible (it's very tightly packed so I would assume the likelihood of finding CDMA components to fit into existing design would be kinda low, unless it's already been designed for both).
If only all carriers were GSM we wouldn't be having this stupid problem.
Foxconn starts construction any day now on a second iDevice plant. So I suppose they can be fully operational by December given the massive amount of person power they can quickly put to work in China. Awesome people management skills there.I stand corrected.
In any event, I sure as heck wouldn't want a CDMA nor a Verizon iPhone. Hope it's not a nightmare for Apple. Wonder how a CDMA iPhone will be able to perform internationally? New hybrid design with sleeping GSM on board?
Smells like trouble to me, but then we are still only in the perpetual rumor zone on this subject. I trust Apple to have an effective plan that will make the seemingly impossible work well. I just doubt Verizon's ability to perform their Role the Apple Way as AT&T has done so well these past 3 years.
For me, Verizon's willingness to actively try to end Net Neutrality with Google puts them on my s##t list of companies I would never do business with and which should be boycotted by all sentient beings. AT&T is a superior service provider that deserves our loyalty as the charter US iPhone carrier who followed Steve after Verizon told him to shove it. Why should we forgive them for that? I say NEVER FORGIVE VERIZON for thumbing their noses at Steve 4 years ago.
They do not believe in, nor will ever be, the Apple Way.
Why do people make such a big deal about a CDMA/GSM hybrid phone? There are several BB phones available on Verizon which also have a slot for a SIM card for the times you travel outside the US. This is a non-issue.
I believe 10.88 using Uverse is about right. If I remember correctly Uverse is about 12mbps unless you upgrade to their 22mbps. At least that is what is offered here in Atlanta.
I have 30mb service with Charter and I get on average 28-30mb on my iPad so if you have 12mb service with uverse your iPad is taking full advantage of your broadband.
I use a linksys E3000 dual band router.
Thanks-- I'll check with AT&T.
I've been monitoring channels and changed a few settings-- but everything stays the same.
Supporting both chips is costly in every way. From actual chip costs and licensing fees to size and power efficiency. It’s the least likely thing to happen to the iPhone. If it’s so great an option why aren’t all these other vendors who make larger phones not simply making all their phones both CDMA and GSM for the same model if it’s such an ideal solution? They aren’t because it’s a very niche solution with too many limitations right now to be viable.
All good points. Obviously we'd love a phone that just ran anywhere and everywhere but everything is a trade off
Qualcomm has said though for a couple of years that they're going to make chips that help transition from CDMA to LTE, and they do make chips that do that. I'm not sure of the detail though and can't find much ... perhaps someone else can tell us more.
The MDM9600 supports UMTS, HSPA+, EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE, making it a multi-technology world chip for global phones. The MDM9800 supports EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE and is likely being made specifically to help Verizon transition from CDMA to LTE.
Interesting that it supports 3GSM as well as CDMA & LTE. What it doesn't list is GSM (2G). Could Apple release a phone that replaces support for 2G GSM/GPRS/EDGE with support for CDMA EVDO? And if so would they release 2 models? (same high end support, but CDMA fall back vs GSM fall back)?
(btw: Telecom NZ has 3G850 and 3G2100 - but no 2G GSM at all... because it used to have CDMA (and still does).)
PS: It looks Brasil is foregoing CDMA/EV-DO in favour of GSM/UMTS technology.
Actually Brasil's Vivo has already finished deploying GSM 3G countrywide a few years ago, even before the introduction of the iPhone (which they have been offering since the 3G version) in Brasil. They still support their old CDMA network, but just for their old customers who still haven't bought new phones. Brasil's four largest carriers are all GSM 3G and all offer the iPhone, which can also be bought unlocked and without contract (although at a very steep price).
All good points. Obviously we'd love a phone that just ran anywhere and everywhere but everything is a trade off
Qualcomm has said though for a couple of years that they're going to make chips that help transition from CDMA to LTE, and they do make chips that do that. I'm not sure of the detail though and can't find much ... perhaps someone else can tell us more.
The MDM9600 supports UMTS, HSPA+, EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE, making it a multi-technology world chip for global phones. The MDM9800 supports EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE and is likely being made specifically to help Verizon transition from CDMA to LTE.
Interesting that it supports 3GSM as well as CDMA & LTE. What it doesn't list is GSM (2G). Could Apple release a phone that replaces support for 2G GSM/GPRS/EDGE with support for CDMA EVDO? And if so would they release 2 models? (same high end support, but CDMA fall back vs GSM fall back)?
(btw: Telecom NZ has 3G850 and 3G2100 - but no 2G GSM at all... because it used to have CDMA (and still does).)
That?s how I would expect Qualcomm to advertise their chips. They need to build on CDMA/EV-DO/LTE or CDMA/EV-DO/UMTS/LTE. One thing to note is that article is 6 months before Qualcomm officially announced dropping UMB, the head-to-head competitor to LTE for ?4G? tech.
I doubt that MDM9800 ever get past the idea stage, but that its moot. When Qualcomm does come out with a CDMA/EV-DO/LTE chip adding UMTS would make sense considering it?s popularity and Qualcomm?s patent holdings. What doesn?t make sense is GSM, but that is also moot because it doesn?t mean it can?t be added to the logic board and be used the way it now.
I haven?t seen a teardown of a world mode phone but all the specs I?ve read have the same four GSM bands as all other GSM-based phones, so it may be a separate chip. The only real limitation would be if you?re limited to less than 5 UMTS bands like you are now. I?m hoping for the next iPhone to have 6 UMTS bands so T-Mobile USA can get on board.
I'm sure Verizon will feel a strain on their network much like AT&T did in the beginning, due to so many people buying an iPhone as well as those that are going to "jump ship" from AT&T.
This could actually be a blessing for AT&T since some people will leave to Verizon, freeing up some of the strain on their network.
I could care less what carrier has it. I'm just glad to see there will be some competition for the price of the data plans. Hell, Sprint is selling unlimited EVERYTHING for $69. I only wish AT&T would do the same. I pay $69 for unlimited voice alone, $30 for unlimited data, and $20 for unlimited texting. That's $119 a month (before taxes), $50 more than Sprint for the same damn service!
Hopefully the iPhone does go to Verizon and prices for these plans will start to drop and get on par with Sprint.
Apple will NOT suffer the PR nightmare of releasing a new iPhone or new network barely 30 days after the Christmas (yes, I said Christmas) selling season. Expect something in the Spring.
I definitely want a CDMA iPhone because Canada has very limited GSM service. Virtually everywhere I go, I cannot get a signal for my 3G iPad, but my CDMA phone gets a full strength signal. I really do want an iPhone, but unless it's CDMA, I won't be able to use it.
It's the second largest country in the world, and if you want your phone to actually work in 90% of it, you need CDMA. Even most of the areas that the coverage maps show as having HSPA coverage, you get no signal at all, not even GPRS.
I definitely want a CDMA iPhone because Canada has very limited GSM service. Virtually everywhere I go, I cannot get a signal for my 3G iPad, but my CDMA phone gets a full strength signal. I really do want an iPhone, but unless it's CDMA, I won't be able to use it.
It's the second largest country in the world, and if you want your phone to actually work in 90% of it, you need CDMA. Even most of the areas that the coverage maps show as having HSPA coverage, you get no signal at all, not even GPRS.
"A Sprint CDMA phone should work in most of Central and South America and the Caribbean along with New Zealand, Indonesia, China and Taiwan, South Korea, India, Israel, Thailand, and a few U.S. territories."
Excellent point. It's possible that the CDMA iPhone could be only for foreign markets. Apple would maintain AT&T exclusivity, if such a deal is still in effect, but would be sending a crystal clear message to AT&T and Verizon. As in "We're ready. Are you guys ready?"
Then again, all those rumored CDMA chips could be for a Verizon 3G iPad...
Why do people make such a big deal about a CDMA/GSM hybrid phone? There are several BB phones available on Verizon which also have a slot for a SIM card for the times you travel outside the US.
Those Verizon worldphones are voice-only on GSM networks. No 3G (HSPA) data. They're dumbphones outside of the United States.
People make a big deal about a possible CDMA/3G hybrid phone because they want to see a Verizon smartphone do data in places like Europe, or maybe switch to a GSM/UTMS carrier in North America. Not going to happen from Apple though, at least not in the near future.
Their only hope is a CDMA/LTE handset if LTE is widely deployed internationally. Verizon will maintain a CDMA network for 10+ years to support legacy devices.
That?s how I would expect Qualcomm to advertise their chips. They need to build on CDMA/EV-DO/LTE or CDMA/EV-DO/UMTS/LTE. One thing to note is that article is 6 months before Qualcomm officially announced dropping UMB, the head-to-head competitor to LTE for ?4G? tech.
Yeah it's an old article, but my searches weren't answering my questions about what they are actually doing today.
My musing stemmed from the possibility that Qualcomm might have quite a good chip spanning CDMA and UMTS needs - and lead to an option that truly did bridge both systems for Apple (instead of releasing 2 different phones).
I believe that a UMTS phone (without 2G GSM) would work fine in Australia on Telstra, but Vodafone & Optus drop back to 2G quite often as they are using 2100Mhz for 3G (and Telecom NZ has no GSM at all). More to the point - AT&T drops back to 2G GSM. So GSM support is a must in the iPhone.
On another (possibly unrelated?) note.. since LTE doesn't do voice yet, I wonder if there's any feasibility of seeing an iPod Touch with LTE (data only) support, ready for both AT&T & Verizon.
Comments
I think hell just froze over.
I know I can't believe I put that in writing. Quadra is fine it just took me a while to get use to the diehard Apple fan in him. He makes me laugh because his posts are exactly the same on Macrumors and I think he just cuts and pastes them from one site to another...LOL.
Thanks for reinforcing what everyone already knows: San Francisco networks are outdated.
Well it could be that or just the fact that uverse standard speeds are 12mb. If thats the case his iPad is getting a good download speed. I dont' know what his 3g looks like.
The only reason why I would say it is possible is because Apple is not #1 or #2 in terms of sales, which could promt Apple to just bite the bullet, swallow the cost of redesigning the iPhone to make it CDMA compatible (it's very tightly packed so I would assume the likelihood of finding CDMA components to fit into existing design would be kinda low, unless it's already been designed for both).
If only all carriers were GSM we wouldn't be having this stupid problem.
Here you go, you got your wish:
My wife still has her Incredible, but I returned mine to Amazon within my 30-day cancellation period. Using the old iPhone 3g (on T-Mobile) until January. If Apple doesn't do anything by then I will probably go back to an Android phone.
BTW - anyone see this analysis:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits...buy-me-now.ars
Gruber talked about it. Not a surprise that AI didn't say anything, since this is now AndroidSucksInsider.com, but the author perfectly argues what I have been thinking: Apple needs to move to all 3 major carriers soon in the US or it is game over.
I would say "some other carrier" by Jan 2011. I am once again skeptical about Verizon because it has not transitioned to sim cards yet. Perhaps T-Mo will get it.
The only reason why I would say it is possible is because Apple is not #1 or #2 in terms of sales, which could promt Apple to just bite the bullet, swallow the cost of redesigning the iPhone to make it CDMA compatible (it's very tightly packed so I would assume the likelihood of finding CDMA components to fit into existing design would be kinda low, unless it's already been designed for both).
If only all carriers were GSM we wouldn't be having this stupid problem.
Foxconn starts construction any day now on a second iDevice plant. So I suppose they can be fully operational by December given the massive amount of person power they can quickly put to work in China. Awesome people management skills there.I stand corrected.
In any event, I sure as heck wouldn't want a CDMA nor a Verizon iPhone. Hope it's not a nightmare for Apple. Wonder how a CDMA iPhone will be able to perform internationally? New hybrid design with sleeping GSM on board?
Smells like trouble to me, but then we are still only in the perpetual rumor zone on this subject. I trust Apple to have an effective plan that will make the seemingly impossible work well. I just doubt Verizon's ability to perform their Role the Apple Way as AT&T has done so well these past 3 years.
For me, Verizon's willingness to actively try to end Net Neutrality with Google puts them on my s##t list of companies I would never do business with and which should be boycotted by all sentient beings. AT&T is a superior service provider that deserves our loyalty as the charter US iPhone carrier who followed Steve after Verizon told him to shove it. Why should we forgive them for that? I say NEVER FORGIVE VERIZON for thumbing their noses at Steve 4 years ago.
They do not believe in, nor will ever be, the Apple Way.
Why do people make such a big deal about a CDMA/GSM hybrid phone? There are several BB phones available on Verizon which also have a slot for a SIM card for the times you travel outside the US. This is a non-issue.
I believe 10.88 using Uverse is about right. If I remember correctly Uverse is about 12mbps unless you upgrade to their 22mbps. At least that is what is offered here in Atlanta.
I have 30mb service with Charter and I get on average 28-30mb on my iPad so if you have 12mb service with uverse your iPad is taking full advantage of your broadband.
I use a linksys E3000 dual band router.
Thanks-- I'll check with AT&T.
I've been monitoring channels and changed a few settings-- but everything stays the same.
.
Supporting both chips is costly in every way. From actual chip costs and licensing fees to size and power efficiency. It’s the least likely thing to happen to the iPhone. If it’s so great an option why aren’t all these other vendors who make larger phones not simply making all their phones both CDMA and GSM for the same model if it’s such an ideal solution? They aren’t because it’s a very niche solution with too many limitations right now to be viable.
All good points. Obviously we'd love a phone that just ran anywhere and everywhere
Qualcomm has said though for a couple of years that they're going to make chips that help transition from CDMA to LTE, and they do make chips that do that. I'm not sure of the detail though and can't find much ... perhaps someone else can tell us more.
For example, in 2008 Qualcomm announced: (http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=2734)
The MDM9600 supports UMTS, HSPA+, EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE, making it a multi-technology world chip for global phones. The MDM9800 supports EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE and is likely being made specifically to help Verizon transition from CDMA to LTE.
Interesting that it supports 3GSM as well as CDMA & LTE. What it doesn't list is GSM (2G). Could Apple release a phone that replaces support for 2G GSM/GPRS/EDGE with support for CDMA EVDO? And if so would they release 2 models? (same high end support, but CDMA fall back vs GSM fall back)?
(btw: Telecom NZ has 3G850 and 3G2100 - but no 2G GSM at all... because it used to have CDMA (and still does).)
PS: It looks Brasil is foregoing CDMA/EV-DO in favour of GSM/UMTS technology.
Actually Brasil's Vivo has already finished deploying GSM 3G countrywide a few years ago, even before the introduction of the iPhone (which they have been offering since the 3G version) in Brasil. They still support their old CDMA network, but just for their old customers who still haven't bought new phones. Brasil's four largest carriers are all GSM 3G and all offer the iPhone, which can also be bought unlocked and without contract (although at a very steep price).
Thanks for reinforcing what everyone already knows: San Francisco networks are outdated.
Yeah, but this is broadband & I did try LA, Seattle Denver, etc.-- with worse results.
.
All good points. Obviously we'd love a phone that just ran anywhere and everywhere
Qualcomm has said though for a couple of years that they're going to make chips that help transition from CDMA to LTE, and they do make chips that do that. I'm not sure of the detail though and can't find much ... perhaps someone else can tell us more.
For example, in 2008 Qualcomm announced: (http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=2734)
The MDM9600 supports UMTS, HSPA+, EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE, making it a multi-technology world chip for global phones. The MDM9800 supports EV-DO Rev. B, UMB and LTE and is likely being made specifically to help Verizon transition from CDMA to LTE.
Interesting that it supports 3GSM as well as CDMA & LTE. What it doesn't list is GSM (2G). Could Apple release a phone that replaces support for 2G GSM/GPRS/EDGE with support for CDMA EVDO? And if so would they release 2 models? (same high end support, but CDMA fall back vs GSM fall back)?
(btw: Telecom NZ has 3G850 and 3G2100 - but no 2G GSM at all... because it used to have CDMA (and still does).)
That?s how I would expect Qualcomm to advertise their chips. They need to build on CDMA/EV-DO/LTE or CDMA/EV-DO/UMTS/LTE. One thing to note is that article is 6 months before Qualcomm officially announced dropping UMB, the head-to-head competitor to LTE for ?4G? tech.
I doubt that MDM9800 ever get past the idea stage, but that its moot. When Qualcomm does come out with a CDMA/EV-DO/LTE chip adding UMTS would make sense considering it?s popularity and Qualcomm?s patent holdings. What doesn?t make sense is GSM, but that is also moot because it doesn?t mean it can?t be added to the logic board and be used the way it now.
I haven?t seen a teardown of a world mode phone but all the specs I?ve read have the same four GSM bands as all other GSM-based phones, so it may be a separate chip. The only real limitation would be if you?re limited to less than 5 UMTS bands like you are now. I?m hoping for the next iPhone to have 6 UMTS bands so T-Mobile USA can get on board.
whyyyyy keep reporting on this? If it happens for sure then let us know.... :-)
Sites like AppleInsider keep reporting this tired rumor because it generates pageviews.
Like yours. Like mine.
This could actually be a blessing for AT&T since some people will leave to Verizon, freeing up some of the strain on their network.
I could care less what carrier has it. I'm just glad to see there will be some competition for the price of the data plans. Hell, Sprint is selling unlimited EVERYTHING for $69. I only wish AT&T would do the same. I pay $69 for unlimited voice alone, $30 for unlimited data, and $20 for unlimited texting. That's $119 a month (before taxes), $50 more than Sprint for the same damn service!
Hopefully the iPhone does go to Verizon and prices for these plans will start to drop and get on par with Sprint.
I only hope...
It's the second largest country in the world, and if you want your phone to actually work in 90% of it, you need CDMA. Even most of the areas that the coverage maps show as having HSPA coverage, you get no signal at all, not even GPRS.
I definitely want a CDMA iPhone because Canada has very limited GSM service. Virtually everywhere I go, I cannot get a signal for my 3G iPad, but my CDMA phone gets a full strength signal. I really do want an iPhone, but unless it's CDMA, I won't be able to use it.
It's the second largest country in the world, and if you want your phone to actually work in 90% of it, you need CDMA. Even most of the areas that the coverage maps show as having HSPA coverage, you get no signal at all, not even GPRS.
This sounds familiar.
...http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/...ion_technology
"A Sprint CDMA phone should work in most of Central and South America and the Caribbean along with New Zealand, Indonesia, China and Taiwan, South Korea, India, Israel, Thailand, and a few U.S. territories."
Excellent point. It's possible that the CDMA iPhone could be only for foreign markets. Apple would maintain AT&T exclusivity, if such a deal is still in effect, but would be sending a crystal clear message to AT&T and Verizon. As in "We're ready. Are you guys ready?"
Then again, all those rumored CDMA chips could be for a Verizon 3G iPad...
Why do people make such a big deal about a CDMA/GSM hybrid phone? There are several BB phones available on Verizon which also have a slot for a SIM card for the times you travel outside the US.
Those Verizon worldphones are voice-only on GSM networks. No 3G (HSPA) data. They're dumbphones outside of the United States.
People make a big deal about a possible CDMA/3G hybrid phone because they want to see a Verizon smartphone do data in places like Europe, or maybe switch to a GSM/UTMS carrier in North America. Not going to happen from Apple though, at least not in the near future.
Their only hope is a CDMA/LTE handset if LTE is widely deployed internationally. Verizon will maintain a CDMA network for 10+ years to support legacy devices.
That?s how I would expect Qualcomm to advertise their chips. They need to build on CDMA/EV-DO/LTE or CDMA/EV-DO/UMTS/LTE. One thing to note is that article is 6 months before Qualcomm officially announced dropping UMB, the head-to-head competitor to LTE for ?4G? tech.
Yeah it's an old article, but my searches weren't answering my questions about what they are actually doing today.
My musing stemmed from the possibility that Qualcomm might have quite a good chip spanning CDMA and UMTS needs - and lead to an option that truly did bridge both systems for Apple (instead of releasing 2 different phones).
I believe that a UMTS phone (without 2G GSM) would work fine in Australia on Telstra, but Vodafone & Optus drop back to 2G quite often as they are using 2100Mhz for 3G (and Telecom NZ has no GSM at all). More to the point - AT&T drops back to 2G GSM. So GSM support is a must in the iPhone.
On another (possibly unrelated?) note.. since LTE doesn't do voice yet, I wonder if there's any feasibility of seeing an iPod Touch with LTE (data only) support, ready for both AT&T & Verizon.