Its not 99%. Nobody has Flash on their Macs, and Macs are at least 4 or 5% of the market.
Lots of people have Flash on their Macs. The smart ones use ClickToFlash or FlashBlock to temper most of the annoyances, but Flash is definitely on most Macs.
Lots of people have Flash on their Macs. The smart ones use ClickToFlash or FlashBlock to temper most of the annoyances, but Flash is definitely on most Macs.
That is what I meant. People don't use Flash on Macs because it crashes them. What difference does it make if the code is hidden away in some dark corner of the hard drive, when it is never used?
I have my own web plugin like flash called 'U R A N0B' and Apple won't run that either. Will the FTC and the EU force Apple to include my plugin too? Maybe we should all send in complaints to the FTC about our own individual plugins?
I have my own web plugin like flash called 'U R A N0B' and Apple won't run that either. Will the FTC and the EU force Apple to include my plugin too? Maybe we should all send in complaints to the FTC about our own individual plugins?
If you want to run some sort of home-brew, there are plenty of platforms which will run any old thing.
You are free to buy any one of them. But your User Experience will suffer.
That is the difference with Apple. They will not allow you to have a bad time, and the haters say that is wrong.
Speaking of Blackberry, there is still no Flash for BB OS and I wouldn?t expect it anytime in 2010. All we have is Flash for devices that can use Android newest OS, Froyo, and that number is small.
This is a pretty ridiculous and irrational to expect a device makers to be required to support your product, and that?s before we get into the lack of a monopoly or the fact that Adobe barely has Flash out the door for one mobile OS in August 2010? it?s August 2010!
Adobe?s best move is to actually make Flash on mobiles good, which I think is impossible, but if they cold hypothetically make it good and make it good for all mobile OSes then Apple would have to much user pressure to not add it.
Are these investigations for blocking the Flash video player in the browser or for dictating how developers write apps? I don't think the government can/should force Apple to allow Flash player on its browser, but I am not sure about the developers issue. Apple should be able to control its own platform to some extent, of course. The question the government has to be asking is: Was this done to make apps better or hurt Adobe and stop apps from being easily ported to Android?
It is important that those with knowledge of the technical issues from a consumer viewpoint make a serious statement about: (i) Why Apple's stand on Flash for mobile might be justified; and (ii) Why Flash itself could be investigated if one were to apply similar standards (as a couple of you have pointed out).
If I knew more about the issues involved, I would do it. This is the only way to push back at corporate interests that typically drive such investigations (I'll bet Adobe made a formal complaint to the EU Competition Commission).
The report claims that the FTC began its investigation in June, and the European Commission recently joined the probe "into whether Apple's business practices 'harm' competition."
Imagine a world if you couldn't 'harm' competition.
Cripes, we would be moving everything by sled because the wheel was outlawed.
Correct me if I am wrong, Apple didn't block flash, they blocked non native apps. I have never seen, or heard of, a version of flash that would actually run on the iPhone/iPad.
Was this submitted to Apple and denied?
it runs on the iphone/ipad if you jailbreak it and ad it yourself.
If the FTC were to penalize Apple for dropping Flash support this would do nothing but reward badly written software and stifle competition. I don't see how in a free market how a government agency can dictate which software I can use when on the internet. Apple and Adobe are not competitors first off so how is Apple's action anti competitive. If by some bizarre twist Adobe and its pathetic flash wins this I would love to start a class action suite against Adobe due to the poor performance of flash on my Mac. I have lost too many hours per year having to restart a crashed browser due to their product.
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here. This is not about Apple not "supporting" Flash. They've done that from the very beginning and there was no real issue as far as any regulating body was concerned. The real issue is Apple's latest update to their developer agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash
Are these investigations for blocking the Flash video player in the browser or for dictating how developers write apps? I don't think the government can/should force Apple to allow Flash player on its browser, but I am not sure about the developers issue. Apple should be able to control its own platform to some extent, of course. The question the government has to be asking is: Was this done to make apps better or hurt Adobe and stop apps from being easily ported to Android?
I'm as big an Apple fan as anybody, but this is going to bite Apple in the ass. Maybe not by the weak FTC, but by the EU. Not supporting Flash. OK. Not allowing interpreted code. OK. Dictating to developers how they get to native code. Not OK.
From my understanding, Adobe was working on a way to allow Flash apps get ported to native iOS code. There is no technical justification for blocking that effort. A developer can write crappy programs in any dev environment, even Apple's xcode. Maybe it's more likely to happen using Adobe's tools, but the harm will be in usability, not any technical or security risk to the iOS device. And the consumer will decide the success or failure of an app based on quality.
It was really a quite blatant and obvious attempt to harm Adobe in a very targeted way. I could argue either way whether any regulating body should step in and intervene, but knowing the EU, they will. And to the user who said Apple would pull their devices before bowing to EU pressure...enjoy your day in fantasy-land.
I'm all for anti-trust enforcement, but this is silly. Apple does not have anything approaching a monopoly in the smartphone world. If you don't like the iPhone, buy a droid or a blackberry. How can anti-trust law apply when there is no trust to anti?
The antitrust laws are about the preservation of open competition. I seem to have to point this out in every thread on this subject. I also have been pointing out the very recent settlement between the FTC and Intel. In no part of this settlement was Intel found to be a "trust" or to have a "monopoly," but they did agree to end a pricing practice which was seen to be anticompetitive. The EU tends to be more aggressive on competition issues and the EU laws seem somewhat broader in their approach, so Apple will probably have to respond with some sort of plan other than "we don't want Flash on our platform."
I am currently running flash on my iphone-it is jailbroke and i installed 'frash'-a install through a custom repo in Cydia's app store on jailbroken phones. It runs ok. Farmville doesn't work because it can detect it is an iphone and refers me to download the FV app in Apple's App Store and the same for go.abc.com for tv shows
-I can disable it with one click using the SBspringboard toggle i doubt i will ever use it-i ran a few videos and a casino site. worked ok... a couple hiccups but the iphone gets rather warm like a space heater-i hear the android version is the same. HOT. And the battery went down about 40% in just about 7 minutes.
The hack utilizes an android flash version 10.1.
My take is it has a long way to go.
FTC and EU shouldn't waste their time especially considering Adobe doesn't have an acceptable mobile version anyway. Although really they shouldn't bother at all. Apple can choose what they want. Adobe could make it available regardless now that jailbreaking was declared legal in the eyes of the law. Adobe could solve this all by themselves going that route.
just my 2 cents,
-david
!!! oh and it does come up with something similar to click2flash but just says flash. you have to tap it to load it - even for apps.
This isn't about forcing Apple to run Flash on the iPhone. The iPhone isn't a monopoly, and only, what, 3 or 4 phone models can even run Flash out of the hundreds or thousands out there. No one could enforce a ruling like that. I believe the investigation is ONLY about Apple banning software such as Flash from converting code to iPhone language-friendly apps. Even I see a problem with that. This doesn't hurt just Adobe. It hurts anyone out there that might have been trying to create a business around app portability between various app storefronts. And that in turn hurts app developers with limited resources attempting to port their apps to broader markets. This is where I see the harm. If the app code is written in Apple's accepted languages, it should be allowed regardless of being ported from another language. If the app is buggy or harmful, reject it as any other natively written app.
I believe this is the only plausible judgment the FTC or EU could enforce. The iPhone AppStore is the leading storefront with the most apps available and the most apps sold, making it a market leader. Therefore opening up the AppStore to portable apps invigorates competition between storefronts and, through that, devices themselves.
Comments
Maybe they should investigate Flash's 99% market presense on computers, and see how much THAT is harming competition.
Its not 99%. Nobody has Flash on their Macs, and Macs are at least 4 or 5% of the market.
Its not 99%. Nobody has Flash on their Macs, and Macs are at least 4 or 5% of the market.
Lots of people have Flash on their Macs. The smart ones use ClickToFlash or FlashBlock to temper most of the annoyances, but Flash is definitely on most Macs.
Its not 99%. Nobody has Flash on their Macs, and Macs are at least 4 or 5% of the market.
Thanks for weighing in tekstud
Lots of people have Flash on their Macs. The smart ones use ClickToFlash or FlashBlock to temper most of the annoyances, but Flash is definitely on most Macs.
That is what I meant. People don't use Flash on Macs because it crashes them. What difference does it make if the code is hidden away in some dark corner of the hard drive, when it is never used?
That's what I meant.
I have my own web plugin like flash called 'U R A N0B' and Apple won't run that either. Will the FTC and the EU force Apple to include my plugin too? Maybe we should all send in complaints to the FTC about our own individual plugins?
If you want to run some sort of home-brew, there are plenty of platforms which will run any old thing.
You are free to buy any one of them. But your User Experience will suffer.
That is the difference with Apple. They will not allow you to have a bad time, and the haters say that is wrong.
Speaking of Blackberry, there is still no Flash for BB OS and I wouldn?t expect it anytime in 2010. All we have is Flash for devices that can use Android newest OS, Froyo, and that number is small.
This is a pretty ridiculous and irrational to expect a device makers to be required to support your product, and that?s before we get into the lack of a monopoly or the fact that Adobe barely has Flash out the door for one mobile OS in August 2010? it?s August 2010!
Adobe?s best move is to actually make Flash on mobiles good, which I think is impossible, but if they cold hypothetically make it good and make it good for all mobile OSes then Apple would have to much user pressure to not add it.
Are these investigations for blocking the Flash video player in the browser or for dictating how developers write apps? I don't think the government can/should force Apple to allow Flash player on its browser, but I am not sure about the developers issue. Apple should be able to control its own platform to some extent, of course. The question the government has to be asking is: Was this done to make apps better or hurt Adobe and stop apps from being easily ported to Android?
Please go to http://ec.europa.eu/competition/form...r_form_en.html and register your thoughts. They are required to consider your view, especially if you are a EU citizen.
If I knew more about the issues involved, I would do it. This is the only way to push back at corporate interests that typically drive such investigations (I'll bet Adobe made a formal complaint to the EU Competition Commission).
The report claims that the FTC began its investigation in June, and the European Commission recently joined the probe "into whether Apple's business practices 'harm' competition."
Imagine a world if you couldn't 'harm' competition.
Cripes, we would be moving everything by sled because the wheel was outlawed.
Correct me if I am wrong, Apple didn't block flash, they blocked non native apps. I have never seen, or heard of, a version of flash that would actually run on the iPhone/iPad.
Was this submitted to Apple and denied?
it runs on the iphone/ipad if you jailbreak it and ad it yourself.
it runs on the iphone/ipad if you jailbreak it and ad it yourself.
oh, and did run natively through adobe's package builder right before apple killed it with iOS 4
Its not 99%. Nobody has Flash on their Macs, and Macs are at least 4 or 5% of the market.
it comes installed by default.
Wait, what mobile devices run the full version of Flash? Because I don't remember seeing any...
all android 2.2 devices and some 2.1 devices from what I remember of my limited EVO 4G experience.
The EU is now in on it? Good luck Apple. They don't tend to be nice to big, market leading companies.
If the FTC were to penalize Apple for dropping Flash support this would do nothing but reward badly written software and stifle competition. I don't see how in a free market how a government agency can dictate which software I can use when on the internet. Apple and Adobe are not competitors first off so how is Apple's action anti competitive. If by some bizarre twist Adobe and its pathetic flash wins this I would love to start a class action suite against Adobe due to the poor performance of flash on my Mac. I have lost too many hours per year having to restart a crashed browser due to their product.
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here. This is not about Apple not "supporting" Flash. They've done that from the very beginning and there was no real issue as far as any regulating body was concerned. The real issue is Apple's latest update to their developer agreement.
Are these investigations for blocking the Flash video player in the browser or for dictating how developers write apps? I don't think the government can/should force Apple to allow Flash player on its browser, but I am not sure about the developers issue. Apple should be able to control its own platform to some extent, of course. The question the government has to be asking is: Was this done to make apps better or hurt Adobe and stop apps from being easily ported to Android?
I'm as big an Apple fan as anybody, but this is going to bite Apple in the ass. Maybe not by the weak FTC, but by the EU. Not supporting Flash. OK. Not allowing interpreted code. OK. Dictating to developers how they get to native code. Not OK.
From my understanding, Adobe was working on a way to allow Flash apps get ported to native iOS code. There is no technical justification for blocking that effort. A developer can write crappy programs in any dev environment, even Apple's xcode. Maybe it's more likely to happen using Adobe's tools, but the harm will be in usability, not any technical or security risk to the iOS device. And the consumer will decide the success or failure of an app based on quality.
It was really a quite blatant and obvious attempt to harm Adobe in a very targeted way. I could argue either way whether any regulating body should step in and intervene, but knowing the EU, they will. And to the user who said Apple would pull their devices before bowing to EU pressure...enjoy your day in fantasy-land.
I'm all for anti-trust enforcement, but this is silly. Apple does not have anything approaching a monopoly in the smartphone world. If you don't like the iPhone, buy a droid or a blackberry. How can anti-trust law apply when there is no trust to anti?
The antitrust laws are about the preservation of open competition. I seem to have to point this out in every thread on this subject. I also have been pointing out the very recent settlement between the FTC and Intel. In no part of this settlement was Intel found to be a "trust" or to have a "monopoly," but they did agree to end a pricing practice which was seen to be anticompetitive. The EU tends to be more aggressive on competition issues and the EU laws seem somewhat broader in their approach, so Apple will probably have to respond with some sort of plan other than "we don't want Flash on our platform."
-I can disable it with one click using the SBspringboard toggle i doubt i will ever use it-i ran a few videos and a casino site. worked ok... a couple hiccups but the iphone gets rather warm like a space heater-i hear the android version is the same. HOT. And the battery went down about 40% in just about 7 minutes.
The hack utilizes an android flash version 10.1.
My take is it has a long way to go.
FTC and EU shouldn't waste their time especially considering Adobe doesn't have an acceptable mobile version anyway. Although really they shouldn't bother at all. Apple can choose what they want. Adobe could make it available regardless now that jailbreaking was declared legal in the eyes of the law. Adobe could solve this all by themselves going that route.
just my 2 cents,
-david
!!! oh and it does come up with something similar to click2flash but just says flash. you have to tap it to load it - even for apps.
I believe this is the only plausible judgment the FTC or EU could enforce. The iPhone AppStore is the leading storefront with the most apps available and the most apps sold, making it a market leader. Therefore opening up the AppStore to portable apps invigorates competition between storefronts and, through that, devices themselves.