Report: Next Apple TV to be renamed iTV, drop 1080p

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  • Reply 21 of 231
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    The iTV is said to cost $99 by Engadget. You're even contradicting yourself by saying it's for the wealthy and at the same time saying they're catering to the low end.



    As for 1080p most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and an upscaled DVD.



    As it is now only small percentage of HDTV owners have 1080p. And even if Apple were to sell 1080p it wouldn't be true 1080p like Blu-Ray because of the massive size of the files.



    Actually, just about every HDTV sold in the last 3 years has been 1080p. As the number of HDTVs begins to accelerate, nearly all of those purchases are 1080p sets.



    Consumers can tell an upscaled DVD from an HDTV broadcast if presented side by side. 720p vs. 1080p is harder but as a videophile, i want the option for 1080p. And Blu-Ray 720p recordings are almost unheard of when you can just do 1080p. I am concerned about 720p only output though since my classic Mitsubishi 65" RPTV CRT HDTV doesn't do 720p input (except from broadcast TV). It would be crushing to have to buy a cheap scaler which would still cost more than the iTV.



    Otherwise, it sounds like the product I've been waiting for, especially since the current AppleTV has been lying fallow for so long. A $99 price tag if delivered is almost an impluse buy. It will allow me to finish ripping my DVD library to m4v files and just present them on a menu-based system streamed from my central server (and keep my kids from handling DVD media).
  • Reply 22 of 231
    filburtfilburt Posts: 398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    As for 1080p most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and an upscaled DVD.



    As it is now only small percentage of HDTV owners have 1080p. And even if Apple were to sell 1080p it wouldn't be true 1080p like Blu-Ray because of the massive size of the files.



    Yes, and you are going to argue that most people can't tell the difference between iPhone 4's retina display (960x640) and older iPhones (480x320) either. The fact is, plenty of people can, especially those that have larger TV or sitting closer to the screen.
  • Reply 23 of 231
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ihxo View Post


    probably hard to do full 1080p with the iDevice spec. Also if it's going full streaming bandwidth is going to be a problem.



    I just hope that they won't drop support for the old Apple TV.



    Not sure what apps could work on old AppleTV, seems unlikely that they will support the old hardware. My hope is they offer some sort of exchange program, but it'd have to be pretty sweet return for me to throw out my old AppleTV for the new one.



    One thing is for sure, an iOS based iTV would offer some serious competition to both game consoles and cable companies. It would also potentially blow google TV out of the water as you wouldn't need a new TV just to get the googletv feature.
  • Reply 24 of 231
    str1f3str1f3 Posts: 573member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post


    Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????



    Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....



    The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!



    I didn't say that I couldn't tell the difference. I said most consumers.



    The problems with 1080p is:



    -The cost of streaming 1080p is too high

    -Most don't have 1080p sets

    -It may cost more

    -Many people in the US have lousy bandwidth. A household full of iTV all streaming 1080p content is probably not even possible

    -It won't be true 1080p because they will lower the bitrate which makes it essentially pointless
  • Reply 25 of 231
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,752moderator
    Why do people keep going on about 1080p just because it's a higher number? We're talking about video streaming here, which is limited by consumer bandwidth.



    The majority of people will have somewhere between 2-10Mbps and not sustained at that peak. 720p is great at 4Mbps and can be sustained without constantly maxing out the downstream.



    You've also go to consider visual acuity. I know people like to believe that 1080p and 60+fps are better but in real-world scenarios, there is no perceptible difference:



    http://www.audioholics.com/education...-displays.html



    "Put bluntly, from 8 feet away while watching a 50 inch plasma TV, the human eye is generally incapable of reliably distinguishing any detail finer than that shown on a true 720p display!"



    If you can see the difference then you're too close to the TV.



    This $99 720p streaming box will be a huge hit and help combat online piracy because it's the one type of service that can rival the convenience of P2P downloads. With P2P downloads, they are free but the download out of order so you can't stream it so you have to wait - that's no good if you decide to watch something right away. With the instant box, you pick, click it and watch it and Apple use high quality encoders so it's good 720p.



    If they integrate this service into iTunes too, I would use it on my computer.
  • Reply 26 of 231
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Oh! You mean this iTV that I posted a screen shot 'rendering' of a while ago...



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=112069&page=2







    Anyway... Shame that Apple's A4 chip appears to be incapable of 1080p, hopefully they can sort it all out prior to release, since the price sure seems right.
  • Reply 27 of 231
    maybe they will pitch this as being much more internet focused with streaming and such. hence go back to iTV
  • Reply 28 of 231
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 300member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post


    Most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and upscaled DVD ???????



    Are you kidding ??? Just open your eyes ....



    The difference between 720p and 1080p is just HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!



    Right on! It is huge. But more importantly, they're very well known numbers to consumers. Even at Costco the 720p sets are dirt cheap and set up way over there, and the 1080p sets are highlighted front and center. It's specs, specmanship and image. There's a definite value discounting to the unit because it doesn't have the horsepower and cojones to go all the way, and this will hurt sales.



    I paid extra for my gigantic 60" 1080p HDTV flat panel and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend money on a device - and subsequent download rentals - that can't feed the beast the resolution it deserves.



    Stupid marketing mistake. They just can't seem to get this TV thing right...
  • Reply 29 of 231
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by filburt View Post


    Yes, and you are going to argue that most people can't tell the difference between iPhone 4's retina display (960x640) and older iPhones (480x320) either. The fact is, plenty of people can, especially those that have larger TV or sitting closer to the screen.



    My wife can't tell the difference, and pretty sure she isn't the only one. Those of us with excellent eye sight and attention to detail might possibly be in the minority my friend.



    That being said, my personal guess is they will make it 1080p capable, and that it may even play 1080p/30fps as well. If they add in a blu-ray player they'd be set but I very much doubt they will since Jobs thinks disc media is so yesterday's technology.
  • Reply 30 of 231
    stormjstormj Posts: 42member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allblue View Post


    ...and there is the issue of ITV being the name of a TV channel in the UK since the 1950s...



    Unless they've given it an ok, there is almost no way this passes copyright muster. Even if there weren't source confusion, iTV is a "famous mark."



    This report is hard to credit.
  • Reply 31 of 231
    dilliodillio Posts: 106member
    It is disappointing that Apple will drop support for 1080p. I would not buy this if this is true, even if I was waiting for Apple's alternative to Google TV.



    If Blu Ray is not supported by Apple, then it is unforgivable for them not to go above 720p. C'mon. And I strongly disagree that most people cannot tell the difference between 720p, and 1080. Anyone with a 40+" TV can tell the difference.
  • Reply 32 of 231
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    The iTV is said to cost $99 by Engadget. You're even contradicting yourself by saying it's for the wealthy and at the same time saying they're catering to the low end.



    As for 1080p most consumers can't even tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and an upscaled DVD.



    As it is now only small percentage of HDTV owners have 1080p. And even if Apple were to sell 1080p it wouldn't be true 1080p like Blu-Ray because of the massive size of the files.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Why do people keep going on about 1080p just because it's a higher number? We're talking about video streaming here, which is limited by consumer bandwidth.



    The majority of people will have somewhere between 2-10Mbps and not sustained at that peak. 720p is great at 4Mbps and can be sustained without constantly maxing out the downstream.



    You've also go to consider visual acuity. I know people like to believe that 1080p and 60+fps are better but in real-world scenarios, there is no perceptible difference:



    http://www.audioholics.com/education...-displays.html



    "Put bluntly, from 8 feet away while watching a 50 inch plasma TV, the human eye is generally incapable of reliably distinguishing any detail finer than that shown on a true 720p display!"



    If you can see the difference then you're too close to the TV.



    This $99 720p streaming box will be a huge hit and help combat online piracy because it's the one type of service that can rival the convenience of P2P downloads. With P2P downloads, they are free but the download out of order so you can't stream it so you have to wait - that's no good if you decide to watch something right away. With the instant box, you pick, click it and watch it and Apple use high quality encoders so it's good 720p.



    If they integrate this service into iTunes too, I would use it on my computer.







    ... all your considerations about 1080p are untrue.



    In Europe we have NOTHING coming in 720p. Everything is in 1080p.

    The only videos we could get in 720p come from the US.



    If you're talking about the idea of streaming in 720p, nobody there will buy any streaming in 720p except the US HDTV series.



    For real cinema, Apple won't sell anything in Europe because we know the difference between 720p and 1080p when you get at least a 40" screen..
  • Reply 33 of 231
    Suddenly 1080p Bluray media doesn't sound so bad. But then again a $99 content streamer ain't bad too. I'll probably still buy Bluray discs for the stuff I watch over and over like Inception and iTV for just simple, watch only once movies.
  • Reply 34 of 231
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Using the name 'ITV' is a total non starter, at least here in the UK, as it's the long established name of the second largest UK TV network.



    And as for 720p vs 1080p, I have a 50" KURO and the difference is night and day. 720p from iTunes is watchable, but very soft and lacking in detail. This is of course exacerbated by the massive amounts of compression. 1080p from a BD on the other hand, looks incredible.



    Anyone who can't see the difference either needs a) better glasses, or b) a better TV. Simple as that.



    It also strikes me as odd that Apple would back away from 1080p streaming when Microsoft have made it so incredibly effortless with the Zune marketplace on the X360. It's still a long way from BD quality but it's miles better than iTunes 720p.
  • Reply 35 of 231
    patspats Posts: 112member
    The A4 video encoder is based on the VXD 370 and Apple will not need to worry about power consumption so if they limit to 720p it is to reduce file size of the stream.



    Quote:

    PowerVR VXD 370 (previously known as "MSVDX") is a high definition, multi-standard video decode core. PowerVR VXD 370 is capable of decoding H.264, VC-1(WMV 9), DivX, MPEG-4, H.263, MPEG-2, MPEG-1, JPEG at resolutions including 720p, 1080i and 1080p. This multiple decoder support has been implemented in an extremely power efficient architecture. As an example, in a 90nm 133MHz implementation power consumption for the core is in the range of 30mW to <50mW for decoding high definition MPEG-2 main profile and high definition H.264 high profile.



    Concludes King-Smith: "Because PowerVR VXD 370 is a highly optimised architecture, with a stream processor to analyse the incoming video bit-stream and reconfigure flexible multi-mode decode modules in the core accordingly, there are huge benefits in reducing silicon area and power consumption " particularly as a large proportion of the processing logic is common for the many video standards supported by the core."



    PowerVR VXD 370 supports all HD resolutions and may be configured to support multiple stream decode allowing rich picture"in-picture options such as Electronic Programme Guide (EPG) grids of sub-videos for easy channel selection by the user.



  • Reply 36 of 231
    joe hsjoe hs Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post


    ... all your considerations about 1080p are untrue.



    In Europe we have NOTHING coming in 720p. Everything is in 1080p.

    The only videos we could get in 720p come from the US.



    If you're talking about the idea of streaming in 720p, nobody there will buy any streaming in 720p except the US HDTV series.



    For real cinema, Apple won't sell anything in Europe because we know the difference between 720p and 1080p when you get at least a 40" screen..



    Agreed 110%
  • Reply 37 of 231
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iVlad View Post


    Too much iNames! This is getting very old. Apple TV sounds very nice.



    The same gripes come up every time Apple uses the 'i*' convention, and every time, it becomes a non-issue.

    Branding is REALLY important, whether people like it or not. And Apple has made good use of iBrands.
  • Reply 38 of 231
    For the vast majority of HDTV owners, 720p is just great. (most HD on cable is 720 anyways) and since streaming is an important part of the Apple TV, 720p makes good bandwidth sense too.



    1080p and Blu-ray just aren't needed on the Apple TV. All my iTunes content plays great and looks great and none of it is more than 720p. And I can store it all on hard drives, so Buh-Bye physical media.



    I absolutely don't want a laptop, keyboard or mouse in my living room; just an HDTV and simple set-top box to play all my iTunes media.



    And as far as the name goes, I say stick with Apple TV. (but they did launch the "iPhone" even though that name was already taken too... so who knows...)
  • Reply 39 of 231
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post


    No 1080p takes it off my buy list and recomend list.



    And it will make no difference to 90%+ of users, and increase usability by increasing streaming speeds.

    When the pipes are up to it, 1080p will make a marginally better experience. Until then responsiveness is more important.

    Apple knows that.
  • Reply 40 of 231
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MandrakeTheMagician View Post


    ... all your considerations about 1080p are untrue.



    In Europe we have NOTHING coming in 720p. Everything is in 1080p.

    The only videos we could get in 720p come from the US.



    If you're talking about the idea of streaming in 720p, nobody there will buy any streaming in 720p except the US HDTV series.



    For real cinema, Apple won't sell anything in Europe because we know the difference between 720p and 1080p when you get at least a 40" screen..



    Well... broadcast HDTV in the UK is 1080i. The UK PSN marketplace is 720p. iTunes UK is occasionally 720p but usually 480p or lower with massive amounts of compression. BBC iPlayer is 720p in Flash or 1080i through Video on Demand via Virgin cable.



    To my knowledge the only 1080p sources of video in the UK are the Zune marketplace, and of course those lovely blu-ray discs.
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