I don't buy the "replace your cable box with it" idea when iTunes will never have close to the amount of programming as cable. At any moment there are over 400 programs airing on my cable service, over 10,000 a day. Some are new, some are repeats. Some are popular and others unheard of. National news. Local news. What about live events like sports or award shows like the Grammys that are NEVER released? How about soaps that air every day? What about music rights in shows which are not an issue when broadcast live but face lots of red tape (and are often cut) when released on DVD or for download?
Beyond that forget any local programming or news or local cable access. Your tv choices would severly limited
... not having content control or standards can be a bad thing but after a few years of cable TV, you start to see how bad their content is anyway.
Years? Were your eyes open?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
That's going to be a huge selling point. Porn companies don't really have a way to get explicit porn direct to your TV. Not only will they have one now but they'll all have to adopt HTML 5 video.
The irony... the final nail in Flash's coffin will be iTV... and pron
History repeating. Some of these debates are sounding a lot like those that preceded the announcement of such products as the iPod, iPhone, and iPad. A lot of pronouncements about how the facts show that the bumblebee cannot fly.
PS - Poor analogy. The bumblebee is a shipping product.
My prediction is that the App store is going to be the big thing for this. We'll see iPad-like applications running on it.
The trick is the remote. I am wondering if they'll use the $3 mems chip and make a Wii-like remote. This would allow one to pick from menus on the screen by pointing with the remote. It could also allow for video games and full iPad emulation on an HD TV. Now how much will you pay?
What will really enthuse me is if we can run applications which manage the content. I want to have groups for Dad and Mom and Kids so we don't have to go digging for content. I want automatic purchase decisions based on # of unwatched shows, dollars available, and priority orders. This sounds like a cool app to download from the store.
So...
iPad like power,
App Store,
Mems controller based Remote.
small Flash storage capacity for cheap, bigger for more money,
lots of streaming,
not much, or at least no more than today, media-for-sale.
Lots of tie-ins with other Apple products.
Off-the-air recording is interesting but full of hassles for the worst-case customer. Apple works hard to keep the worst-case customer out of its hair.
If you think about the components needed to do this, they can fit inside a plug. Imagine a plug like the iPhone charger with an HDMI port coming out. It can be wifi or have an ethernet port.
While I agree that they could I doubt Apple would make into a plug or plug sized devices for two reasons. [list=1][*]"Over" engineering costs money and at the proposed $99 price I think that would require a more cheaply engineered, component priced and manufactured device.[*]Having it as a plug could affect WiFi data transfers (even though this is how the Airport Express works) require an IR wire or remove IR altogether (which I don't see) and make it an invisible device when some of the best advertising is to show off your product.
Fo these reasons the smallest I'd expect is about the size of an iPod Nano in a Base.
I've always said without the ability to record TV or other shows AppleTV wasn't very compelling. TiVo was/is far more so. Don't get me wrong, I think the AppleTV is cool as a distribution unit for the price it really should have had recording ability.
What's to say that the iTV won't allow you to do that? Local storage is not necessary for recording of shows.
I don't buy the "replace your cable box with it" idea when iTunes will never have close to the amount of programming as cable. At any moment there are over 400 programs airing on my cable service, over 10,000 a day. Some are new, some are repeats. Some are popular and others unheard of. National news. Local news. What about live events like sports or award shows like the Grammys that are NEVER released? How about soaps that air every day? What about music rights in shows which are not an issue when broadcast live but face lots of red tape (and are often cut) when released on DVD or for download?
What about all the stuff you *can't* get on cable though?
What about programs from other countries that we currently can't access without super-expensive equipment?
What about programs that are tailored to what a smaller set of viewers want, instead of just a lot of dreck that the masses find acceptable?
In many ways the argument for Internet TV is the same as the original argument for podcasting. For instance I recently got cable TV after living without it for ten years or so, and it's all shite to me. Endless re-runs of junk like Family guy and the Simpsons. MASH and Barney Miller over and over and over again. I wouldn't *choose* to watch any of that if it wasn't streaming into my living room. With podcasting and Internet TV stations, the information can be tailored to the audience.
Isn't it better to pick and choose what you want to watch and when you are going to watch it?
It's basically a choice between a big pipe full of crap vs. a smaller pipe with just what you want to watch.
It is not SJ history to sell cheap $99 boxes. More than likely anything that comes out will have a huge value added features to justify a fat profit margin. It would have to include:
1. App store, iBook, iTunes and even You Tube content.
2. TV content would have to something more than the junk of cable and air TV. Video streaming like Netflix, video on demand and content on demand as it has been mentioned.
Otherwise, I am sticking with my new souped up fast MacMini with 8 GB RAM, 500 GB HD... networked to my HD storage. Soon I will be getting Fiber. If I wanted junk, I would have gone with Windows Media solution.
Steve Jobs still doesn't get it. Unless the iTV has a tuner and capable of connection to cable or off the air TV, it's not going to be mainstream. Why pay ABC, NBC or CBS for access through iTV when you can get it for free off the air? Same for the rest of the programming. Cable and satellite do it better and probably cheaper. This is one area where Microsoft is far superior. Their Media Center is where it's at. My Media Center can connect to off the air, cable, satellite, DVD, Blu-Ray or Internet sources. It's got a built in DVR as well for all those sources. iTV is simply an iTunes pay per view (or subscription) box. Even if some programmers utilize advertising as a revenue stream instead of subscription fees, we'll see how long that lasts. I love Apple products and own quite a few. I find Apple OS far superior to Microsoft. But the Apply TV isn't and the upcoming iTV doesn't sound like it's in the league of Microsoft's Media Center.
I couldn't disagree with you more. First off TV Tuner cards are not HDCP compliant, they have no HDMI inputs and they can only record digital TV off of the air. If you want to pass through a cable box, you are limited to analog. Secondly, the internet is becoming vastly rich with streaming television and movies. ATT Uverse and Verizon FIOS both use a version of IPTV which is television streamed through the internet to a special receiver. I have a ROKU box for netflix streaming and I use it so much, I dumped my cable. ROKU actually has a vast library of channels now (not just netflix) that cover the gamut of everything I want to watch. People have been screaming for alacarte television for quite some time now, and the cable companies have not wanted to spend the resources to make it happen. Now it is finally happening through technology like ROKU and this new Apple TV. This is going to be something people will buy, and for $99, you cant beat it.
The way I read it, networks will be streaming shows to the Apple TV box either free, or with a small subscription fee. Sure, cable is not going away tomorrow, but unless they keep up with the growing trend of network services, they are going to go the way of the transistor radio, and 8-tracks. Cable television is a relic of the past and satellite goes out everytime the wind blows.
Thats my 2 cents worth of opinion. Take it or leave it.
... However, this guy ... claims ... that iTV will allow...viewing other angles of football on the iPad? that sounds like the dumbest idea I've heard. ...
I think this time he is close to being 100% right on this since he is only repeating rumours we already heard for he most part. However, I think you are right about the "multiple angles" thing.
People have been pushing that idea for about a decade or so and it hasn't caught on yet. One of the main features of that newfangled thing called the "DVD" that came out a while ago, was the fact that it could have multiple camera angles of the same movie on the same disc so that the viewer could swap from one camera to another during the course of the show. If you go back and look at the marketing materials they used then, it was one of the main answers to the question "Why is digital better than tape?"
It never caught on, and it's almost impossible to find a DVD that uses the feature. I have over 3,000 DVD's and only one of them has it.
"Multiple viewing angles" is kind of a classic boondoggle. It will be amusing to see if Jobs actually tries to sell that on stage.
For $99 I'm certainly willing to give it a shot. What will make it killer for me is if I could buy a live/streaming sports event on it at a reasonable price. Say, get the Hockey Night in Canada stream for $1.99/game in HD. Sold, sold, sold.
Not going to get even remotely excited til you see where it will be coming in the near future. iPad in Canada is great but, the killer iBooks app...nowhere to be seen unless you count the public domain books. Huge disappointment it is not available here. Figure it will be the same for this one. Netflix is coming in September...Hate the cable company...hate the spokesman even more he is a goof.
For me to buy it, it needs 1080p, 7.1 audio, support for mkv's, DTS-MA HD/TrueHD so I can play my rips I already have. Then I will be excited.
? High-Profile 1080p is possible with Imagination decoder chips even though some rumours say 720p max and at $99 that seems likely.
? 7.1 channel audio is easily doable even though I think 5.1 is the best to expect.
? I see absolutely no reason why Apple would support the MKV container.
? DTS and Dolby?s HD lossless audio that is optical in Blu-ray seem unlikely as BRDs don?t have the capacity and bandwidth limitations that Apple?s streaming device would have. If Apple did add HD lossless audio it would likely be DTS-MA HD, not TrueHD as the latter appears to be losing ground steadily. Don?t these audio codec have a built in fallback as needed?
One of the main features of that newfangled thing called the "DVD" that came out a while ago, was the fact that it could have multiple camera angles of the same movie on the same disc so that the viewer could swap from one camera to another during the course of the show. If you go back and look at the marketing materials they used then, it was one of the main answers to the question "Why is digital better than tape?"
It never caught on, and it's almost impossible to find a DVD that uses the feature. I have over 3,000 DVD's and only one of them has it.
"Multiple viewing angles" is kind of a classic boondoggle. It will be amusing to see if Jobs actually tries to sell that on stage.
If there's anyone who could successfully sell old poop in a new, shiny can, it's him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero
For $99 I'm certainly willing to give it a shot. What will make it killer for me is if I could buy a live/streaming sports event on it at a reasonable price. Say, get the Hockey Night in Canada stream for $1.99/game in HD. Sold, sold, sold.
Why do that when you can watch it live on CBC for free? It would have to be a free streaming download -- unless you're talking about seeing it later, on demand. Then maybe CBC could pull it off.
Now, we're talking about free TV, there. Could Dana White look into streaming live UFC PPV events on the Apple TV? If he's smart, he will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75
For me to buy it, it needs 1080p, 7.1 audio, support for mkv's, DTS-MA HD/TrueHD so I can play my rips I already have. Then I will be excited.
I find it unlikely that anyone could fit all that equipment into the space of an iPhone with modern technology.
Comments
I don't buy the "replace your cable box with it" idea when iTunes will never have close to the amount of programming as cable. At any moment there are over 400 programs airing on my cable service, over 10,000 a day. Some are new, some are repeats. Some are popular and others unheard of. National news. Local news. What about live events like sports or award shows like the Grammys that are NEVER released? How about soaps that air every day? What about music rights in shows which are not an issue when broadcast live but face lots of red tape (and are often cut) when released on DVD or for download?
Beyond that forget any local programming or news or local cable access. Your tv choices would severly limited
... not having content control or standards can be a bad thing but after a few years of cable TV, you start to see how bad their content is anyway.
Years?
That's going to be a huge selling point. Porn companies don't really have a way to get explicit porn direct to your TV. Not only will they have one now but they'll all have to adopt HTML 5 video.
The irony... the final nail in Flash's coffin will be iTV... and pron
PS - Poor analogy. The bumblebee is a shipping product.
The trick is the remote. I am wondering if they'll use the $3 mems chip and make a Wii-like remote. This would allow one to pick from menus on the screen by pointing with the remote. It could also allow for video games and full iPad emulation on an HD TV. Now how much will you pay?
What will really enthuse me is if we can run applications which manage the content. I want to have groups for Dad and Mom and Kids so we don't have to go digging for content. I want automatic purchase decisions based on # of unwatched shows, dollars available, and priority orders. This sounds like a cool app to download from the store.
So...
- iPad like power,
- App Store,
- Mems controller based Remote.
- small Flash storage capacity for cheap, bigger for more money,
- lots of streaming,
- not much, or at least no more than today, media-for-sale.
- Lots of tie-ins with other Apple products.
Off-the-air recording is interesting but full of hassles for the worst-case customer. Apple works hard to keep the worst-case customer out of its hair.If you think about the components needed to do this, they can fit inside a plug. Imagine a plug like the iPhone charger with an HDMI port coming out. It can be wifi or have an ethernet port.
While I agree that they could I doubt Apple would make into a plug or plug sized devices for two reasons. [list=1][*]"Over" engineering costs money and at the proposed $99 price I think that would require a more cheaply engineered, component priced and manufactured device.[*]Having it as a plug could affect WiFi data transfers (even though this is how the Airport Express works) require an IR wire or remove IR altogether (which I don't see) and make it an invisible device when some of the best advertising is to show off your product.
Fo these reasons the smallest I'd expect is about the size of an iPod Nano in a Base.
I've always said without the ability to record TV or other shows AppleTV wasn't very compelling. TiVo was/is far more so. Don't get me wrong, I think the AppleTV is cool as a distribution unit for the price it really should have had recording ability.
What's to say that the iTV won't allow you to do that? Local storage is not necessary for recording of shows.
I don't buy the "replace your cable box with it" idea when iTunes will never have close to the amount of programming as cable. At any moment there are over 400 programs airing on my cable service, over 10,000 a day. Some are new, some are repeats. Some are popular and others unheard of. National news. Local news. What about live events like sports or award shows like the Grammys that are NEVER released? How about soaps that air every day? What about music rights in shows which are not an issue when broadcast live but face lots of red tape (and are often cut) when released on DVD or for download?
What about all the stuff you *can't* get on cable though?
What about programs from other countries that we currently can't access without super-expensive equipment?
What about programs that are tailored to what a smaller set of viewers want, instead of just a lot of dreck that the masses find acceptable?
In many ways the argument for Internet TV is the same as the original argument for podcasting. For instance I recently got cable TV after living without it for ten years or so, and it's all shite to me. Endless re-runs of junk like Family guy and the Simpsons. MASH and Barney Miller over and over and over again. I wouldn't *choose* to watch any of that if it wasn't streaming into my living room. With podcasting and Internet TV stations, the information can be tailored to the audience.
Isn't it better to pick and choose what you want to watch and when you are going to watch it?
It's basically a choice between a big pipe full of crap vs. a smaller pipe with just what you want to watch.
1. App store, iBook, iTunes and even You Tube content.
2. TV content would have to something more than the junk of cable and air TV. Video streaming like Netflix, video on demand and content on demand as it has been mentioned.
Otherwise, I am sticking with my new souped up fast MacMini with 8 GB RAM, 500 GB HD... networked to my HD storage. Soon I will be getting Fiber. If I wanted junk, I would have gone with Windows Media solution.
Whose Newton?
Steve Jobs @ Apple: 1976 - 1985, 1997 - Present
Newton: 1987 - 1998
Yah. Newton was hardly a "failure" either.
A whole industry of Apple-haters who are not very good at spelling, perhaps?
Or perhaps all the Apple fans on this site that equally cannot spell?
Steve Jobs still doesn't get it. Unless the iTV has a tuner and capable of connection to cable or off the air TV, it's not going to be mainstream. Why pay ABC, NBC or CBS for access through iTV when you can get it for free off the air? Same for the rest of the programming. Cable and satellite do it better and probably cheaper. This is one area where Microsoft is far superior. Their Media Center is where it's at. My Media Center can connect to off the air, cable, satellite, DVD, Blu-Ray or Internet sources. It's got a built in DVR as well for all those sources. iTV is simply an iTunes pay per view (or subscription) box. Even if some programmers utilize advertising as a revenue stream instead of subscription fees, we'll see how long that lasts. I love Apple products and own quite a few. I find Apple OS far superior to Microsoft. But the Apply TV isn't and the upcoming iTV doesn't sound like it's in the league of Microsoft's Media Center.
I couldn't disagree with you more. First off TV Tuner cards are not HDCP compliant, they have no HDMI inputs and they can only record digital TV off of the air. If you want to pass through a cable box, you are limited to analog. Secondly, the internet is becoming vastly rich with streaming television and movies. ATT Uverse and Verizon FIOS both use a version of IPTV which is television streamed through the internet to a special receiver. I have a ROKU box for netflix streaming and I use it so much, I dumped my cable. ROKU actually has a vast library of channels now (not just netflix) that cover the gamut of everything I want to watch. People have been screaming for alacarte television for quite some time now, and the cable companies have not wanted to spend the resources to make it happen. Now it is finally happening through technology like ROKU and this new Apple TV. This is going to be something people will buy, and for $99, you cant beat it.
The way I read it, networks will be streaming shows to the Apple TV box either free, or with a small subscription fee. Sure, cable is not going away tomorrow, but unless they keep up with the growing trend of network services, they are going to go the way of the transistor radio, and 8-tracks. Cable television is a relic of the past and satellite goes out everytime the wind blows.
Thats my 2 cents worth of opinion. Take it or leave it.
Or perhaps all the Apple fans on this site that equally cannot spell?
Nah, you guys are a special breed.
... However, this guy ... claims ... that iTV will allow...viewing other angles of football on the iPad? that sounds like the dumbest idea I've heard. ...
I think this time he is close to being 100% right on this since he is only repeating rumours we already heard for he most part. However, I think you are right about the "multiple angles" thing.
People have been pushing that idea for about a decade or so and it hasn't caught on yet. One of the main features of that newfangled thing called the "DVD" that came out a while ago, was the fact that it could have multiple camera angles of the same movie on the same disc so that the viewer could swap from one camera to another during the course of the show. If you go back and look at the marketing materials they used then, it was one of the main answers to the question "Why is digital better than tape?"
It never caught on, and it's almost impossible to find a DVD that uses the feature. I have over 3,000 DVD's and only one of them has it.
"Multiple viewing angles" is kind of a classic boondoggle. It will be amusing to see if Jobs actually tries to sell that on stage.
What new industry did SJ create?
You might better ask what industries did he kill or remake - what would not exist or be different without him.
Personal computers existed before the Mac
-The Apple II running Visicalc killed mainframe computing (reborn as Desktop Computing)
-The Mac & the LaserWriter killed the printing industry (reborn as Desktop Publishing)
Flash based music players existed with the iPod
-The iPod, along with iTunes killed the music industry distribution & pricing model
Cell phones existed before the iPhone
-The iPhone killed cell manufacturers who had no platform (Android will finish them off)
-The iPhone killed the traditional cell carriers role
Tablets existed before the iPad
- The ipad killed the netbook, and created a whole new category of device
-The iPad will probably kill print publishing of books and magazines as we know it
-The iPad/iPod is taking a chunk out of the gaming industry
App stores existed before iTunes
-The app store killed traditional software distribution & pricing
-The app store may kill many roles the "the web" is currently used for
Together, the ipad and the app store may take a piece out of the advertising industry.
The AppleTV may take a chunk out of the cable carriers
Add in that the genesis of the web came from designs found in next and HyperCard
For me to buy it, it needs 1080p, 7.1 audio, support for mkv's, DTS-MA HD/TrueHD so I can play my rips I already have. Then I will be excited.
? High-Profile 1080p is possible with Imagination decoder chips even though some rumours say 720p max and at $99 that seems likely.
? 7.1 channel audio is easily doable even though I think 5.1 is the best to expect.
? I see absolutely no reason why Apple would support the MKV container.
? DTS and Dolby?s HD lossless audio that is optical in Blu-ray seem unlikely as BRDs don?t have the capacity and bandwidth limitations that Apple?s streaming device would have. If Apple did add HD lossless audio it would likely be DTS-MA HD, not TrueHD as the latter appears to be losing ground steadily. Don?t these audio codec have a built in fallback as needed?
One of the main features of that newfangled thing called the "DVD" that came out a while ago, was the fact that it could have multiple camera angles of the same movie on the same disc so that the viewer could swap from one camera to another during the course of the show. If you go back and look at the marketing materials they used then, it was one of the main answers to the question "Why is digital better than tape?"
It never caught on, and it's almost impossible to find a DVD that uses the feature. I have over 3,000 DVD's and only one of them has it.
"Multiple viewing angles" is kind of a classic boondoggle. It will be amusing to see if Jobs actually tries to sell that on stage.
If there's anyone who could successfully sell old poop in a new, shiny can, it's him.
For $99 I'm certainly willing to give it a shot. What will make it killer for me is if I could buy a live/streaming sports event on it at a reasonable price. Say, get the Hockey Night in Canada stream for $1.99/game in HD. Sold, sold, sold.
Why do that when you can watch it live on CBC for free? It would have to be a free streaming download -- unless you're talking about seeing it later, on demand. Then maybe CBC could pull it off.
Now, we're talking about free TV, there. Could Dana White look into streaming live UFC PPV events on the Apple TV? If he's smart, he will.
For me to buy it, it needs 1080p, 7.1 audio, support for mkv's, DTS-MA HD/TrueHD so I can play my rips I already have. Then I will be excited.
I find it unlikely that anyone could fit all that equipment into the space of an iPhone with modern technology.
Even Apple fanbois have to admit that Windows Media Center > Front Row.
Okay, so Windows Media Center is larger than Front Row.
Please let us know how the bloatiness of any software is beneficial to Joe Consumer. Thanks.