Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
1080p is vastly overrated and, really, it's a case of people who simply are not focused on getting a quality picture being irrationally attached to a spec that has little or no practical value.
I own a 720p 32-inch Sony XBR and the picture it delivers with a quality source is spectacular viewed from a distance of about 5 feet. HD-DVDs look marvellous and while they are not 720P, considering I have a 720p monitor, it's beside the point.
The average consumer is so out of it when it comes to matters related to HDTV, many wonder what all the fuss is about when they are watching standard def TV feeds on their 1080P-capable devices. So compared to that travesty or for that matter the horrid HDTV signals delivered by cable and satellite, feeding a well-mastered 720p signal into their sets, 1080p or otherwise, would constitute a major step forward.
The only way you get any benefit from a 1080p signal is if you sit five feet away from a 55-inch screen (not being precise, mind you). Nobody in real life does that. I'm willing to bet that if you took a group of people and sat them let's say seven feet away from a 50-inch monitor, few if any could tell the difference between a 720p signal and a 1080p signal. Even if through a clear effort, one could tell the difference, it would be so minor as to be not worth bothering over.
I would also suggest that if there had been no 1080p standard, there would have been few if any complaints that the HDTV standard was set too low if the gold standard had been 720p.
I had no intention of buying an Apple TV but at $119 Cdn., now I'm thinking, why not. It also helps that the device is so small you'd hardly notice it was there at all.
p.s. I don't have Fiber To The Home and full HD screens to have -arbitrary- limits put in upstream by an hardware manufacturer, just because Apple has chosen not to even try streaming 1080p...
The price is interesting but this limitation alone will make me stick with my current XBMC media center.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
1080p is vastly overrated and, really, it's a case of people who simply are not focused on getting a quality picture being irrationally attached to a spec that has little or no practical value.
I own a 720p 32-inch Sony XBR and the picture it delivers with a quality source is spectacular viewed from a distance of about 5 feet. HD-DVDs look marvellous and while they are not 720P, considering I have a 720p monitor, it's beside the point.
The average consumer is so out of it when it comes to matters related to HDTV, many wonder what all the fuss is about when they are watching standard def TV feeds on their 1080P-capable devices. So compared to that travesty or for that matter the horrid HDTV signals delivered by cable and satellite, feeding a well-mastered 720p signal into their sets, 1080p or otherwise, would constitute a major step forward.
The only way you get any benefit from a 1080p signal is if you sit five feet away from a 55-inch screen (not being precise, mind you). Nobody in real life does that. I'm willing to bet that if you took a group of people and sat them let's say seven feet away from a 50-inch monitor, few if any could tell the difference between a 720p signal and a 1080p signal. Even if through a clear effort, one could tell the difference, it would be so minor as to be not worth bothering over.
I would also suggest that if there had been no 1080p standard, there would have been few if any complaints that the HDTV standard was set too low if the gold standard had been 720p.
I had no intention of buying an Apple TV but at $119 Cdn., now I'm thinking, why not. It also helps that the device is so small you'd hardly notice it was there at all.
I keep making this point to people. It's a manly spec thing. They think that the higher the spec, the better it is. While that may be the case in theory, it rarely is in practice. I have a 61" screen that plays at 1080p. But at my seating distance of 14 feet, I can't see that. I can just barely see 720, and I'm not going to put a chair in front of my coffee table for that purpose.
Very few people sit close enough to get 1080 out of their sets.
there is no 1080 content being streamed by anyone. At all.
I rather doubt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Nuts! I doubt that you sit close enough to see 1080 on your Tv screen. Almost no one does.
Just because you can't see the difference. The ellipses are implied.
Quote:
And your statement that Apple doesn't make a product worth buying marks you as being trollish. Be careful.
Also implied is that I don't find it worth anything. It's perfectly fine for people with no 1080 content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
snip
I can't believe how many people can't seem to see a difference between 720 and 1080. It boggles the mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I keep making this point to people. It's a manly spec thing. They think that the higher the spec, the better it is. While that may be the case in theory, it rarely is in practice. I have a 61" screen that plays at 1080p. But at my seating distance of 14 feet, I can't see that. I can just barely see 720, and I'm not going to put a chair in front of my coffee table for that purpose.
Very few people sit close enough to get 1080 out of their sets.
Ah, the implication here is that I'm merely twirling my metaphorical digital wang, yes? Try again. I've never understood any of this nonsense about viewing distances, screen sizes, and 720 vs. 1080.
There is a visible difference. I can see it. This truth makes the difference in this product for me. Therefore the Apple TV serves me no purpose.
there is no 1080 content being streamed by anyone. At all.
There may not be any commercial 1080p streaming content, but you are ignoring the fact that you can easily stream 1080p h.264 content over 802.11n from your own file server.
If someone is looking for an all-in-one head-end device to connect to their TV for internet and local streaming content, not having an option for 1080p could lead many to other solutions.
Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.
Do you not watch ABC, Fox, ESPN, Disney, and others because they are in 720P? Or are they worthless, too?
When it comes to HDTV, signal compression is the biggest factor for picture quality. ABC (720P) I find to be a higher quality picture than NBC (1080i) on a consistent basis.
The other thing it seems many people are ignorant of is the effective resolution during motion. A plasma set will have the highest effective resolution but even a 120 Hz LCD set can only display a fraction of 1080 lines during motion (240 Hz is somewhat better). Now if you only use your TV for displaying still pictures then I guess 1080p might matter but even then I have a hard time telling them from a 768p set side-by-side at normal viewing distances (no, I don't watch TV 2 feet from the screen).
I wonder if it has the same Power VR GPU as the iPhone and iPad. If it does, and having played with the very impressive Unreal Engine 3 tech demo on my iPhone 4, it's a terrible shame that the new ATV has no apps and therefore no games.
I think that since the iPad can stream movies to the AppleTV then why not video games? Use the iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad as the controller and stream directly--and wirelessly to the AppleTV?
It'd take a ton of wireless bandwidth but since you're already streaming movies that are HD (granted lower end HD for now) then games could theoretically be possible..
At least that's my opinion... Imagine this replacing the XBOX or PS3 eventually... The iPhone and iPad and iPod Touch supposedly are making the PSP and Nintendo DSi obsolete....
p.s. I don't have Fiber To The Home and full HD screens to have -arbitrary- limits put in upstream by an hardware manufacturer, just because Apple has chosen not to even try streaming 1080p...
The price is interesting but this limitation alone will make me stick with my current XBMC media center.
That article reads as though it was written by MS itself.
There are few 1080p streams available, and if you go to the forums you will see that there are problems with downloading and playing them for many people. It's not ready for primetime yet.
While the software behind the new Apple TV was not detailed, the company made no mention of iOS or the App Store in Wednesday's presentation.
It's the same piece-of-shit software and interface that is on the current (old) Apple TV. This is not an improvement. Did Apple buy a bunch of these little boxes from some liquidator in China and slap the Apple logo on it? It sure seems like it.
I was all ready to go buy one of these things. Not anymore. I'll stick with the crappy older model, which is still better than this new one.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
32 inches is small by today's standards. And a few feet away is OK for a tiny room, but not otherwise.
Try watching a big screen in a proper room and get back to us. I think you'll find that a 1080p picture looks better if/when the equipment and setup are adequate for a good home theatre experience.
Any chance the new software and features will run on the old ATV box. I find it hard to believe you need the new A4 processor to run this new software. I realize it's cheap enough to buy the new box but why throw away the old one if we don't need to. Guess I'll wait a few months for the hackers to get their hands on it if nothing official comes out from Apple.
Just because you can't see the difference. The ellipses are implied.
I doubt very much that you can either from any normal seating position. You really have to sit CLOSE.
Quote:
Also implied is that I don't find it worth anything. It's perfectly fine for people with no 1080 content.
I can't believe how many people can't seem to see a difference between 720 and 1080. It boggles the mind.
I'm sure we can all see it, just not from where the screens are placed relative to the seating position.
Quote:
Ah, the implication here is that I'm merely twirling my metaphorical digital wang, yes? Try again. I've never understood any of this nonsense about viewing distances, screen sizes, and 720 vs. 1080.
There is a visible difference. I can see it. This truth makes the difference in this product for me. Therefore the Apple TV serves me no purpose.
If you don't understand it, then you don't know what you're seeing. It's a pretty standard formula in the industry. Carlton explains it well, and has very useful charts.
The simple fact is that whether you inderstand it or not, if you're too far away for a given rez, you won't see it. If you think you do, then you have to rethink your understanding of what you're seeing.
Comments
Absolutely worthless.
No 1080p hardware support.
Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
1080p is vastly overrated and, really, it's a case of people who simply are not focused on getting a quality picture being irrationally attached to a spec that has little or no practical value.
I own a 720p 32-inch Sony XBR and the picture it delivers with a quality source is spectacular viewed from a distance of about 5 feet. HD-DVDs look marvellous and while they are not 720P, considering I have a 720p monitor, it's beside the point.
The average consumer is so out of it when it comes to matters related to HDTV, many wonder what all the fuss is about when they are watching standard def TV feeds on their 1080P-capable devices. So compared to that travesty or for that matter the horrid HDTV signals delivered by cable and satellite, feeding a well-mastered 720p signal into their sets, 1080p or otherwise, would constitute a major step forward.
The only way you get any benefit from a 1080p signal is if you sit five feet away from a 55-inch screen (not being precise, mind you). Nobody in real life does that. I'm willing to bet that if you took a group of people and sat them let's say seven feet away from a 50-inch monitor, few if any could tell the difference between a 720p signal and a 1080p signal. Even if through a clear effort, one could tell the difference, it would be so minor as to be not worth bothering over.
I would also suggest that if there had been no 1080p standard, there would have been few if any complaints that the HDTV standard was set too low if the gold standard had been 720p.
I had no intention of buying an Apple TV but at $119 Cdn., now I'm thinking, why not. It also helps that the device is so small you'd hardly notice it was there at all.
That's what I was afraid of.
Think about it. If you're renting, and streaming from your computer, why would you NEED storage?
there is no 1080 content being streamed by anyone. At all.
Hmmm.
Zune Marketplace on Xbox 360 offers 5.1 surround-sound and 1080p instant streaming on a selection of titles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune_Ma...ne_Marketplace
p.s. I don't have Fiber To The Home and full HD screens to have -arbitrary- limits put in upstream by an hardware manufacturer, just because Apple has chosen not to even try streaming 1080p...
The price is interesting but this limitation alone will make me stick with my current XBMC media center.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
1080p is vastly overrated and, really, it's a case of people who simply are not focused on getting a quality picture being irrationally attached to a spec that has little or no practical value.
I own a 720p 32-inch Sony XBR and the picture it delivers with a quality source is spectacular viewed from a distance of about 5 feet. HD-DVDs look marvellous and while they are not 720P, considering I have a 720p monitor, it's beside the point.
The average consumer is so out of it when it comes to matters related to HDTV, many wonder what all the fuss is about when they are watching standard def TV feeds on their 1080P-capable devices. So compared to that travesty or for that matter the horrid HDTV signals delivered by cable and satellite, feeding a well-mastered 720p signal into their sets, 1080p or otherwise, would constitute a major step forward.
The only way you get any benefit from a 1080p signal is if you sit five feet away from a 55-inch screen (not being precise, mind you). Nobody in real life does that. I'm willing to bet that if you took a group of people and sat them let's say seven feet away from a 50-inch monitor, few if any could tell the difference between a 720p signal and a 1080p signal. Even if through a clear effort, one could tell the difference, it would be so minor as to be not worth bothering over.
I would also suggest that if there had been no 1080p standard, there would have been few if any complaints that the HDTV standard was set too low if the gold standard had been 720p.
I had no intention of buying an Apple TV but at $119 Cdn., now I'm thinking, why not. It also helps that the device is so small you'd hardly notice it was there at all.
I keep making this point to people. It's a manly spec thing. They think that the higher the spec, the better it is. While that may be the case in theory, it rarely is in practice. I have a 61" screen that plays at 1080p. But at my seating distance of 14 feet, I can't see that. I can just barely see 720, and I'm not going to put a chair in front of my coffee table for that purpose.
Very few people sit close enough to get 1080 out of their sets.
there is no 1080 content being streamed by anyone. At all.
I rather doubt that.
Nuts! I doubt that you sit close enough to see 1080 on your Tv screen. Almost no one does.
Just because you can't see the difference. The ellipses are implied.
And your statement that Apple doesn't make a product worth buying marks you as being trollish. Be careful.
Also implied is that I don't find it worth anything. It's perfectly fine for people with no 1080 content.
snip
I can't believe how many people can't seem to see a difference between 720 and 1080. It boggles the mind.
I keep making this point to people. It's a manly spec thing. They think that the higher the spec, the better it is. While that may be the case in theory, it rarely is in practice. I have a 61" screen that plays at 1080p. But at my seating distance of 14 feet, I can't see that. I can just barely see 720, and I'm not going to put a chair in front of my coffee table for that purpose.
Very few people sit close enough to get 1080 out of their sets.
Ah, the implication here is that I'm merely twirling my metaphorical digital wang, yes? Try again. I've never understood any of this nonsense about viewing distances, screen sizes, and 720 vs. 1080.
There is a visible difference. I can see it. This truth makes the difference in this product for me. Therefore the Apple TV serves me no purpose.
there is no 1080 content being streamed by anyone. At all.
There may not be any commercial 1080p streaming content, but you are ignoring the fact that you can easily stream 1080p h.264 content over 802.11n from your own file server.
If someone is looking for an all-in-one head-end device to connect to their TV for internet and local streaming content, not having an option for 1080p could lead many to other solutions.
Absolutely worthless.
No 1080p hardware support.
Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.
Your comment is worthless, troll.
And the device has a micro-USB port that is intended for service and support.
Service and Support.
What does that mean? What does the USB port do? What sortr of service? What sort of support? What plugs into it?
Absolutely worthless.
No 1080p hardware support.
Guess I'll be waiting another four years for Apple to make a product worth buying.
Do you not watch ABC, Fox, ESPN, Disney, and others because they are in 720P? Or are they worthless, too?
When it comes to HDTV, signal compression is the biggest factor for picture quality. ABC (720P) I find to be a higher quality picture than NBC (1080i) on a consistent basis.
The other thing it seems many people are ignorant of is the effective resolution during motion. A plasma set will have the highest effective resolution but even a 120 Hz LCD set can only display a fraction of 1080 lines during motion (240 Hz is somewhat better). Now if you only use your TV for displaying still pictures then I guess 1080p might matter but even then I have a hard time telling them from a 768p set side-by-side at normal viewing distances (no, I don't watch TV 2 feet from the screen).
I want to stream music through my TV speakers.
.
Do you mean through your Home Entertainment System, or through the crummy built-in TV speakers?
I wonder if it has the same Power VR GPU as the iPhone and iPad. If it does, and having played with the very impressive Unreal Engine 3 tech demo on my iPhone 4, it's a terrible shame that the new ATV has no apps and therefore no games.
I think that since the iPad can stream movies to the AppleTV then why not video games? Use the iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad as the controller and stream directly--and wirelessly to the AppleTV?
It'd take a ton of wireless bandwidth but since you're already streaming movies that are HD (granted lower end HD for now) then games could theoretically be possible..
At least that's my opinion... Imagine this replacing the XBOX or PS3 eventually... The iPhone and iPad and iPod Touch supposedly are making the PSP and Nintendo DSi obsolete....
Chris Powers
[email protected]
www.powersbydesign.com
Hmmm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune_Ma...ne_Marketplace
p.s. I don't have Fiber To The Home and full HD screens to have -arbitrary- limits put in upstream by an hardware manufacturer, just because Apple has chosen not to even try streaming 1080p...
The price is interesting but this limitation alone will make me stick with my current XBMC media center.
That article reads as though it was written by MS itself.
There are few 1080p streams available, and if you go to the forums you will see that there are problems with downloading and playing them for many people. It's not ready for primetime yet.
While the software behind the new Apple TV was not detailed, the company made no mention of iOS or the App Store in Wednesday's presentation.
It's the same piece-of-shit software and interface that is on the current (old) Apple TV. This is not an improvement. Did Apple buy a bunch of these little boxes from some liquidator in China and slap the Apple logo on it? It sure seems like it.
I was all ready to go buy one of these things. Not anymore. I'll stick with the crappy older model, which is still better than this new one.
What is amusing is how many people think 720P is inadequate. Fact is, 720P produces an excellent picture. If you sit only a few feet away from a 32-inch 720P monitor, the picture is terrific.
32 inches is small by today's standards. And a few feet away is OK for a tiny room, but not otherwise.
Try watching a big screen in a proper room and get back to us. I think you'll find that a 1080p picture looks better if/when the equipment and setup are adequate for a good home theatre experience.
Service and Support.
What does that mean? What does the USB port do? What sortr of service? What sort of support? What plugs into it?
Reinstalling the system if needed, mounting the "drive" to examine logs and reports, etc.
I have a hard time telling them from a 768p set side-by-side at normal viewing distances (no, I don't watch TV 2 feet from the screen).
When is that last time you had an eye exam? Do you need glasses? Are you sure?
Reinstalling the system if needed, mounting the "drive" to examine logs and reports, etc.
You can mount Apple TV as a drive? You can't even do that with an iPad.
Just because you can't see the difference. The ellipses are implied.
I doubt very much that you can either from any normal seating position. You really have to sit CLOSE.
Also implied is that I don't find it worth anything. It's perfectly fine for people with no 1080 content.
I can't believe how many people can't seem to see a difference between 720 and 1080. It boggles the mind.
I'm sure we can all see it, just not from where the screens are placed relative to the seating position.
Ah, the implication here is that I'm merely twirling my metaphorical digital wang, yes? Try again. I've never understood any of this nonsense about viewing distances, screen sizes, and 720 vs. 1080.
There is a visible difference. I can see it. This truth makes the difference in this product for me. Therefore the Apple TV serves me no purpose.
If you don't understand it, then you don't know what you're seeing. It's a pretty standard formula in the industry. Carlton explains it well, and has very useful charts.
The simple fact is that whether you inderstand it or not, if you're too far away for a given rez, you won't see it. If you think you do, then you have to rethink your understanding of what you're seeing.
http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/...ter-calculator
Service and Support.
What does that mean? What does the USB port do? What sortr of service? What sort of support? What plugs into it?
Apple would use it for diagnostic testing.