Then please explain why my daughter's Android phone (just purchased in June) is stuck at 1.6 - and no newer version is available.
Because you bought a crappy one. You are on record saying it is a good phone. But the reviews all say otherwise.
I am aware of no supercharger being available to upgrade a Hyundai, but then again, they are not designed that way. Same with economy-class phones. It has always been that way.
The good Android phones may be a different experience from the one you bought.
Yah, but it's kinda a pain in the rear. Do you know how many different bleeding configs I need to test? It's not just hitting a few buttons, it's making sure I didn't use something out of 2.2 when I still want to support 1.6. Streak at 1.6...what was Dell thinking?
It is horrible... Oh the humanitity... I have to develop code for varying platforms.... This has never happened in the past. I do not have to worry about iPhone vs iPhone 3G vs iPhone 4.... No they all compile and run exactly the same....
P.S. The streak will be updated to 2.2 in a month or so, so I would not lose too much sleep over it...
1) Apple?s iOS devices get rich updates for 3 full years.
2) Apple?s iOS devices are updates along side (if not somewhat earlier than) the newest iOS devices.
3) Froyo v2.2 came out in 20-May-2010. That is 3.5 months ago.
4) Dell Streak came out AFTER Froyo was officially released and it still came with Donut, which was released a year ago minus ten days ago.
?but you call my argument weak because Apple stops updating their iOS devices after 3 full years when most Android devices are lucky to even get a single update. Reality check!
I call, you update weak because ALL manufactures have to deal with this. Android is updated more often than iOS. There are bound to be manufactures who do not keep up. It is their loss. I do think it was dumb that the streak was released with an older OS, however, that was Dell's fault, Not Android or Google. One mistake by a manufacturer does not mean that NO android phones are not equal to the iPhone. That argument is just silly.
There are pleny of criticisms on AI when Apple releases stuff, that has always been the way. Most famous was the reaction here to the iPods. Apple was doomed.
Yes, and those who do criticize are labeled trolls or dismissed in some other way. But things are changing. Apple has screwed up quite a bit lately and it's getting really hard to defend them with a straight face.
It is horrible... Oh the humanitity... I have to develop code for varying platforms.... This has never happened in the past. I do not have to worry about iPhone vs iPhone 3G vs iPhone 4.... No they all compile and run exactly the same....
P.S. The streak will be updated to 2.2 in a month or so, so I would not lose too much sleep over it...
I would if I were a developer, or a manager, or a financial executive wondering how many devices in the wild run 2.2, if the developer wants to use an specific API in 2.2.
Meanwhile if the developer wants something in 4.1, that will be on all iDevices within two month of release. 4.0 is on > 90% now.
In the actual real world this does matter. The fact that Apple can deploy their OS extremely fast is important.
Yes, and those who do criticize are labeled trolls or dismissed in some other way. But things are changing. Apple has screwed up quite a bit lately and it's getting really hard to defend them with a straight face.
The people who criticised the iPods were wrong. Whats wrong with being "dismissed". You are clearly a combative poster, if you want to criticise Apple you are free to do so, but if you dish it you should take it.
Not in a month, but I guess with an ?or so? qualifier you can?t possibly be proven wrong.
So basically because one manufacture made a mistake means that all Android phone are inferior to the iPhone... Is that really your argument????
It does mean that consumers do have to do more research before they buy an Android phone. If they do not want to do so, they probably should buy an iPhone as it is a safer bet.. However, it is NOT obsolete proof....
Are you saying that the once a year major update is a faster deployment pace than the Android OS?
Lol. It is like talking to the wall.
it doesnt matter what happens in the labs, if the OS is not distributed and carriers and manufacturers dont get their act together and install it.
The argument is that Android is fragmented, lower quality Android phones dont even ship with anything other than 1.6, and updates are uncertain.
Meanwhile 4.0 is on the 3G and up. How many milion iDevices, certainly most of them. So developers can target 4.0.
In the actual real world the marketing manager, or sales directors will ask the developer if his new shiny App will run on most machines, if the new shiny app needs 4.0 he can say yes, if it runs 2.2 he will say no.
I call, you update weak because ALL manufactures have to deal with this. Android is updated more often than iOS. There are bound to be manufactures who do not keep up. It is their loss. I do think it was dumb that the streak was released with an older OS, however, that was Dell's fault, Not Android or Google. One mistake by a manufacturer does not mean that NO android phones are not equal to the iPhone. That argument is just silly.
Even within the same vendor you can?t get all their Android-based devices updated at the same time, or which any decent scheduling or commitment to updates. Case in point, when the Nexus One was updated to Froyo how many other HTC phones were updated to Froyo at that time? By my count: zero. Yet I know that next Summer my iPhone 4 will get iOS 5.0 at or just before the 5th iPhone hits the market. I also know that the new iPod Touch, being on the market from next week until next Summer will also get iOS 5.0. You can deny that customers like to be satisfied and assured of when where and how a product will be updated and supported, but it would be even more foolish then your previous arguments combined. The only reason you?re here pooh-poohing the iPhone is the reason why it?s the phone compared to all others, and as much as you hate it that won?t change with Android?s complete lack of control over the vendor allowing for a haphazard update cycle.
It can be installed on all devices and people just respond YES when the alert comes up in iTunes, and they use iTunes all the time. The only machine which cant take it is the 1st gen, but most people have updated that.
I have dealt with this in real life. Wanted to develop something in August for iOs 4, due in September. Convinced the manager.
I think 60% of iPads were wifi only. The point is that the 230K activation's is not the number of sales, of all iOS devices on that day. It seems like the sales are a huge number. i am surprised that the analyst community has not jumped on it.
EDIT:
To explain. Lets assume that 50% of all iPads are 3G ( and therefore activated), and that Apple is selling 2 Million a month in this quarter. That is 3 Million iPad activations, out of 6M iPads sold.
The total activations in this quarter - July, August, September - is 230K * 92. September has 30 says, the rest 31.
Total activates on iPhones is therefor 230K * 92 - 3m = 21.16 M - 3M = 18.16 M iPhones. not including upgrades and iPod touches.
Which brings me back to my claim that iPhones will have a 100% Q-Q increase , or more.
Assad,
Rightly or wrongly, I took activations as using iTunes or with a carrier. When i did my off the cuff calculations, I used 2miilion ipads per month because that is how many they have ramped up to, 3 million iPhones per month since they were selling 100,000 per day so that would leave around 2million iPod touches per month to make a total of 7 million ios devices per month. Using an average price of $600 dollars per iPhone and iPad and 300 dollars per iPod touch, I get a revenue rate of over 3.5 billion per month and 10.5 billion for the quarter for just the "new" activations. I think this helps explain the monster quarter for revenues that Apple guided to at the last call. But no matter how you run the numbers it is something large. As Apple is ramping iPad production to 3 million per month and I am going to guess that Apple is still ramping iPhone production(also interesting that iPhone 3GS ships 5-7 days presently), and with the new game center, I would expect that iPod touch sales will increase especially during this holiday season, that the 10.5 billion ios quarter will be a low figure for actual revenues.
I would say that this a very good time to be an Apple shareholder as well as a user of their products. I read some of what the trolls write just to see what an absolute worst case scenario looks like for Apple and it's products but I don't think things will get to their predictions just as I don't pay too much attention to the rose colored glasses crowd. If you want to make money in the market, being reality based is always helpful.
Rightly or wrongly, I took activations as using iTunes or with a carrier
I think it depends on what he means by activations. If it excludes non-carrier devices then the iPhone sales are much bigger than last quarter, as you can add 3M iPhones to that total.
It also depends on what he means by not including upgrades. For instance when I moved from my 1st to the iPhone 4 on the same carrier with the same phone number, is that included or not. If so, what isnt?
It can be installed on all devices and people just respond YES when the alert comes up in iTunes, and they use iTunes all the time. The only machine which cant take it is the 1st gen, but most people have updated that.
I have dealt with this in real life. Wanted to develop something in August for iOs 4, due in September. Convinced the manager.
( My real guess is 99%)
You first said >90%. You cited <50%. Now you revise to 99%.
I think it depends on what he means by activations. If it excludes non-carrier devices then the iPhone sales are much bigger than last quarter, as you can add 3M iPhones to that total.
It also depends on what he means by not including upgrades. For instance when I moved from my 1st to the iPhone 4 on the same carrier with the same phone number, is that included or not. If so, what isnt?
There can be a lot of wiggle room with what Jobs meant by activations. No matter how you decide to slice the pie, it still comes out as a big revenue number for Apple. As a long term investor in Apple, that is most important right now. Counting in the speculation As to how well the macs are selling, it should be a very nice quarter for Apple with better things to come in the dec quarter.
The people who criticised the iPods were wrong. Whats wrong with being "dismissed". You are clearly a combative poster, if you want to criticise Apple you are free to do so, but if you dish it you should take it.
I can take it. I'm still waiting for someone to give it to me. A good argument against what I say. Not "don't buy Apple products" or "your just a combative poster" or the ultra classy F-off I got the other day.
Yah, but it's kinda a pain in the rear. Do you know how many different bleeding configs I need to test? It's not just hitting a few buttons, it's making sure I didn't use something out of 2.2 when I still want to support 1.6. Streak at 1.6...what was Dell thinking?
It happens all the time.
I have a Pre Plus on Verizon, running WebOS 1.4.1, and I'm waiting on them to release 1.4.5 for the Pre (they have for the Pixi), as there new apps I can't install based on the OS version.
My first gen iPod Touch is stuck at 3.1.3, and from what I've read, 4.0 runs like ass on 3g iPhones, and not all features are supported. You either buy new HW, or continue using what you've got.
While the Streak should be coming with the latest version, it will be getting 2.1 soon after launch.
Fragmentation will happen, regardless of platform; Android, iOS, PC, Mac, etc...
Comments
Then please explain why my daughter's Android phone (just purchased in June) is stuck at 1.6 - and no newer version is available.
Because you bought a crappy one. You are on record saying it is a good phone. But the reviews all say otherwise.
I am aware of no supercharger being available to upgrade a Hyundai, but then again, they are not designed that way. Same with economy-class phones. It has always been that way.
The good Android phones may be a different experience from the one you bought.
Yah, but it's kinda a pain in the rear. Do you know how many different bleeding configs I need to test? It's not just hitting a few buttons, it's making sure I didn't use something out of 2.2 when I still want to support 1.6. Streak at 1.6...what was Dell thinking?
It is horrible... Oh the humanitity... I have to develop code for varying platforms.... This has never happened in the past. I do not have to worry about iPhone vs iPhone 3G vs iPhone 4.... No they all compile and run exactly the same....
P.S. The streak will be updated to 2.2 in a month or so, so I would not lose too much sleep over it...
P.S. The streak will be updated to 2.2 in a month or so, so I would not lose too much sleep over it...
Not in a month, but I guess with an ?or so? qualifier you can?t possibly be proven wrong.
1) Apple?s iOS devices get rich updates for 3 full years.
2) Apple?s iOS devices are updates along side (if not somewhat earlier than) the newest iOS devices.
3) Froyo v2.2 came out in 20-May-2010. That is 3.5 months ago.
4) Dell Streak came out AFTER Froyo was officially released and it still came with Donut, which was released a year ago minus ten days ago.
?but you call my argument weak because Apple stops updating their iOS devices after 3 full years when most Android devices are lucky to even get a single update. Reality check!
I call, you update weak because ALL manufactures have to deal with this. Android is updated more often than iOS. There are bound to be manufactures who do not keep up. It is their loss. I do think it was dumb that the streak was released with an older OS, however, that was Dell's fault, Not Android or Google. One mistake by a manufacturer does not mean that NO android phones are not equal to the iPhone. That argument is just silly.
There are pleny of criticisms on AI when Apple releases stuff, that has always been the way. Most famous was the reaction here to the iPods. Apple was doomed.
Yes, and those who do criticize are labeled trolls or dismissed in some other way. But things are changing. Apple has screwed up quite a bit lately and it's getting really hard to defend them with a straight face.
It is horrible... Oh the humanitity... I have to develop code for varying platforms.... This has never happened in the past. I do not have to worry about iPhone vs iPhone 3G vs iPhone 4.... No they all compile and run exactly the same....
P.S. The streak will be updated to 2.2 in a month or so, so I would not lose too much sleep over it...
I would if I were a developer, or a manager, or a financial executive wondering how many devices in the wild run 2.2, if the developer wants to use an specific API in 2.2.
Meanwhile if the developer wants something in 4.1, that will be on all iDevices within two month of release. 4.0 is on > 90% now.
In the actual real world this does matter. The fact that Apple can deploy their OS extremely fast is important.
Yes, and those who do criticize are labeled trolls or dismissed in some other way. But things are changing. Apple has screwed up quite a bit lately and it's getting really hard to defend them with a straight face.
The people who criticised the iPods were wrong. Whats wrong with being "dismissed". You are clearly a combative poster, if you want to criticise Apple you are free to do so, but if you dish it you should take it.
Not in a month, but I guess with an ?or so? qualifier you can?t possibly be proven wrong.
So basically because one manufacture made a mistake means that all Android phone are inferior to the iPhone... Is that really your argument????
It does mean that consumers do have to do more research before they buy an Android phone. If they do not want to do so, they probably should buy an iPhone as it is a safer bet.. However, it is NOT obsolete proof....
The fact that Apple can deploy their OS extremely fast is important.
Are you saying that the once a year major update is a faster deployment pace than the Android OS?
4.0 is on > 90% now.
.
That strikes me as wildly incorrect. Got a cite?
Are you saying that the once a year major update is a faster deployment pace than the Android OS?
Lol. It is like talking to the wall.
it doesnt matter what happens in the labs, if the OS is not distributed and carriers and manufacturers dont get their act together and install it.
The argument is that Android is fragmented, lower quality Android phones dont even ship with anything other than 1.6, and updates are uncertain.
Meanwhile 4.0 is on the 3G and up. How many milion iDevices, certainly most of them. So developers can target 4.0.
In the actual real world the marketing manager, or sales directors will ask the developer if his new shiny App will run on most machines, if the new shiny app needs 4.0 he can say yes, if it runs 2.2 he will say no.
so the 2.2 version will not be released.
The real world.
I call, you update weak because ALL manufactures have to deal with this. Android is updated more often than iOS. There are bound to be manufactures who do not keep up. It is their loss. I do think it was dumb that the streak was released with an older OS, however, that was Dell's fault, Not Android or Google. One mistake by a manufacturer does not mean that NO android phones are not equal to the iPhone. That argument is just silly.
Even within the same vendor you can?t get all their Android-based devices updated at the same time, or which any decent scheduling or commitment to updates. Case in point, when the Nexus One was updated to Froyo how many other HTC phones were updated to Froyo at that time? By my count: zero. Yet I know that next Summer my iPhone 4 will get iOS 5.0 at or just before the 5th iPhone hits the market. I also know that the new iPod Touch, being on the market from next week until next Summer will also get iOS 5.0. You can deny that customers like to be satisfied and assured of when where and how a product will be updated and supported, but it would be even more foolish then your previous arguments combined. The only reason you?re here pooh-poohing the iPhone is the reason why it?s the phone compared to all others, and as much as you hate it that won?t change with Android?s complete lack of control over the vendor allowing for a haphazard update cycle.
That strikes me as wildly incorrect. Got a cite?
Feel free to not ask me to google for you. It was > 50% within a month.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20...ubj=News-Apple
It can be installed on all devices and people just respond YES when the alert comes up in iTunes, and they use iTunes all the time. The only machine which cant take it is the 1st gen, but most people have updated that.
I have dealt with this in real life. Wanted to develop something in August for iOs 4, due in September. Convinced the manager.
( My real guess is 99%)
I think 60% of iPads were wifi only. The point is that the 230K activation's is not the number of sales, of all iOS devices on that day. It seems like the sales are a huge number. i am surprised that the analyst community has not jumped on it.
EDIT:
To explain. Lets assume that 50% of all iPads are 3G ( and therefore activated), and that Apple is selling 2 Million a month in this quarter. That is 3 Million iPad activations, out of 6M iPads sold.
The total activations in this quarter - July, August, September - is 230K * 92. September has 30 says, the rest 31.
Total activates on iPhones is therefor 230K * 92 - 3m = 21.16 M - 3M = 18.16 M iPhones. not including upgrades and iPod touches.
Which brings me back to my claim that iPhones will have a 100% Q-Q increase , or more.
Assad,
Rightly or wrongly, I took activations as using iTunes or with a carrier. When i did my off the cuff calculations, I used 2miilion ipads per month because that is how many they have ramped up to, 3 million iPhones per month since they were selling 100,000 per day so that would leave around 2million iPod touches per month to make a total of 7 million ios devices per month. Using an average price of $600 dollars per iPhone and iPad and 300 dollars per iPod touch, I get a revenue rate of over 3.5 billion per month and 10.5 billion for the quarter for just the "new" activations. I think this helps explain the monster quarter for revenues that Apple guided to at the last call. But no matter how you run the numbers it is something large. As Apple is ramping iPad production to 3 million per month and I am going to guess that Apple is still ramping iPhone production(also interesting that iPhone 3GS ships 5-7 days presently), and with the new game center, I would expect that iPod touch sales will increase especially during this holiday season, that the 10.5 billion ios quarter will be a low figure for actual revenues.
I would say that this a very good time to be an Apple shareholder as well as a user of their products. I read some of what the trolls write just to see what an absolute worst case scenario looks like for Apple and it's products but I don't think things will get to their predictions just as I don't pay too much attention to the rose colored glasses crowd. If you want to make money in the market, being reality based is always helpful.
Good luck out there.
Rightly or wrongly, I took activations as using iTunes or with a carrier
I think it depends on what he means by activations. If it excludes non-carrier devices then the iPhone sales are much bigger than last quarter, as you can add 3M iPhones to that total.
It also depends on what he means by not including upgrades. For instance when I moved from my 1st to the iPhone 4 on the same carrier with the same phone number, is that included or not. If so, what isnt?
Feel free to not ask me to google for you. It was > 50% within a month.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20...ubj=News-Apple
It can be installed on all devices and people just respond YES when the alert comes up in iTunes, and they use iTunes all the time. The only machine which cant take it is the 1st gen, but most people have updated that.
I have dealt with this in real life. Wanted to develop something in August for iOs 4, due in September. Convinced the manager.
( My real guess is 99%)
You first said >90%. You cited <50%. Now you revise to 99%.
OK.
You first said >90%. You cited <50%. Now you revise to 99%.
OK.
I am beging to suspect that your parents were possibly too closely related.
I think that now the % of people using 4.0 is > 90% because 1 month after the release it was 50%.
The 99% will probably be true sometime this year. As you can see from the report only 1% were using 2.x. The upgrade cycle is simple.
I think it depends on what he means by activations. If it excludes non-carrier devices then the iPhone sales are much bigger than last quarter, as you can add 3M iPhones to that total.
It also depends on what he means by not including upgrades. For instance when I moved from my 1st to the iPhone 4 on the same carrier with the same phone number, is that included or not. If so, what isnt?
There can be a lot of wiggle room with what Jobs meant by activations. No matter how you decide to slice the pie, it still comes out as a big revenue number for Apple. As a long term investor in Apple, that is most important right now. Counting in the speculation As to how well the macs are selling, it should be a very nice quarter for Apple with better things to come in the dec quarter.
jmo though.
Good luck
Neal
The people who criticised the iPods were wrong. Whats wrong with being "dismissed". You are clearly a combative poster, if you want to criticise Apple you are free to do so, but if you dish it you should take it.
I can take it. I'm still waiting for someone to give it to me. A good argument against what I say. Not "don't buy Apple products" or "your just a combative poster" or the ultra classy F-off I got the other day.
Yah, but it's kinda a pain in the rear. Do you know how many different bleeding configs I need to test? It's not just hitting a few buttons, it's making sure I didn't use something out of 2.2 when I still want to support 1.6. Streak at 1.6...what was Dell thinking?
It happens all the time.
I have a Pre Plus on Verizon, running WebOS 1.4.1, and I'm waiting on them to release 1.4.5 for the Pre (they have for the Pixi), as there new apps I can't install based on the OS version.
My first gen iPod Touch is stuck at 3.1.3, and from what I've read, 4.0 runs like ass on 3g iPhones, and not all features are supported. You either buy new HW, or continue using what you've got.
While the Streak should be coming with the latest version, it will be getting 2.1 soon after launch.
Fragmentation will happen, regardless of platform; Android, iOS, PC, Mac, etc...