We're PC people, but thought we'd dive into the Apple world with the introduction of the iPad. We bought one for portability and frankly, because it seemed cool. Looks like it's great for reading ebooks, viewing photo's & listening to music, and it'll probably be good for word processing etc. after we download some apps.
The iOS devices are all about apps. Thankfully many of them are cheap enough that you can try them out at will.
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We use Facebook extensively, including many Facebook apps. My wife is Extremely disappointed, though (as am I) to learn that none of the many Flashplayer based applications that we use with Facebook will work on the iPad. This means we'd have to carry around both a laptop AND an iPad if we want to be productive.
Interesting, I've never been able to grasp FaceBook and have an account that I never use. The question I have to ask is how can anybody be productive on Facebook as it seems to be a waste of time more than anything.
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This is, to us, a major, major design flaw (or failure in negotiation) that apparently makes my $900 iPad a gimmicky toy that's not worth anywhere near the price we paid.
That is one way to look at it but you won't likely get a lot of support for that position on this forum. To put it politely as I can Flash sucks on mobile devices and has never been supported well by Adobe. It isn't likely that Adobe will ever be able to get Flash to run well on current hardware found in cell phones and tablets. It isn't possible currently to put enough CPU power into battery powered devices of this sort. That isn't to say the future might not be different, as integration continues to go up and feature size down, we will find ourselves with some extremely powerful hand held devices. That is not the case at the moment though.
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Unless we can find a work-around, we will be returning it to the retailer in the next day or two in favor of a lightweight, PC based notebook (or netbook). Not as cool, but much more practical and functional.
Depending on your needs a notebook (it doesn't have to be PC based) might have been a better choice. iPad is designed around the idea of consuming information instead of creating it.
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Am I missing something?
Yep I'd say so. The world has changed a lot and Flash has pretty much run its course of acceptability.
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Is there a workaround?
In many cases apps. App store is huge, I'd look there if for things that fit your needs.
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Did Apple let us down?
Not at all Apple has fully disclosed their position on Flash very publicly and it is well known in the industry. Even if Adobe did offer up Flash for iPad the performance would be pretty terrible as can be seen on with their Android offering.
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And is there any reason we shouldn't take this back to the retailer while it is still returnable?
Thanks!
Yeah a couple.
One; is that you might actually sell it for more than it is worth, at least you could a few weeks ago.
Second; it looks like you haven't taken the time to grasp just what iOS devices are and how they are maturing technology wise. I don't have one at the moment but likely will when they come out with one with more RAM, but the device is extremely impressive when you grasp what some of its capabilities are. The long battery life and almost instant usability can be extremely handy traveling. It goes deeper than that but I wouldn't dismiss iPad just because it doesn't do Flash, that in my opinion is a very good thing.
Third; One of the things I love about iPhone is the way it is integrated into or ties together so well with my laptop and my Mobile Me account. While still young and improving the syncing capability is fantastic. Frankly I've never tried with any PC devices so I'm not sure if this will apply to your situation but the fact that I can tap in an address in the field somewhere and have it show up in my Mobile Me account an on my laptop address book is extremely liberating. Many other things sync well also. Once you get use to it this capability is just the nuts and makes Apples handheld devices more useful than you might think.
Fourth; Maybe iPad isn't perfect for your needs, I'm a big iPhone user so you might want to consider that you have the wrong device or that it should be supplemented with something better. In my opinion Apples iOS devices really come into their own when used in conjunction with other PC's be they Macs or Windows machines. Some will object to this idea and admittedly the iPad can function all by itself pretty darn good, but the fact remains that an iPad or iPhone can be seen as peripheral to your main machine. A very powerful one at that, that doesn't require lugging around.
Fifth; if you move to Mac hardware the integration with iPad is even better than that seen with a PC.
It is up to you in the end to keep or dispose of but realize that the device is not a laptop replacement by any means. Rather it is a different approach to mobile computing. It will either work for you or not.
And is there any reason we shouldn't take this back to the retailer while it is still returnable?
About possible reasons you should probably ask yourself. The iPad offers great functionality for many people, even for some professionals, so you have to carefuly think about its possible uses in your own setup.
And by the way, I propose you to read this open letter from S. Jobs himself about Flash:
Thanks, Marvin, for an excellent answer to my question. I am learning a lot, especially since my wife got this iPad. I used to know PC's inside out (literally), through the XP operating system. I also used the old Mac operating system (this was way back in the 80's). But I'm retired and haven't kept up with the technology of either PC or Mac the way I used to, so I have a lot to learn about both. And forget about mobile technology... as Sergeant Schultz used to say on Hogan's Heroes, "I know Nothing!!!"
So I appreciate all the answers on here, (except those from users who are just acting like ignorant, adolescent jerks, which maybe they are). I am learning, and I'm so frustrated with Microsoft and their crappy new operating systems that I'm strongly considering buying a Mac when I'm ready to replace my computer. Thanks again, Marvin.
dbpropp, as others are starting to say this isn't an "Apple vs. PC" kind of situation you are running into. More accurately, this is a "lightweight internet device vs. mainstream computer" issue that has you flustered. Lightweight internet devices, whether from Apple or others, aren't designed to be full-blown computer replacements. As it relates to Flash, the jury is still out whether any version of Flash, including this stripped down one that just came out for tablets, will be capable of meeting the needs and desires of internet device owners. The early returns from some Android users (who also aren't on PCs, per se) are not all that encouraging.
My advice is to look at your needs first. If a true computer is what is needed to accomplish all of the tasks you want from a machine, then maybe that is where to look first. Apple has some options along this line including the MacBook and the MacBook Air -- both of which support Flash. If what you want is something ultra-portable as primarily an information gathering device, the iPad is a revolutionary product.
Lastly, for those that throw out the "do your research first" statement, let me point out that Apple doesn't make much of an effort to warn people about the lack of Flash capability on the iPad. When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
Lastly, for those that throw out the "do your research first" statement, let me point out that Apple doesn't make much of an effort to warn people about the lack of Flash capability on the iPad. When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
Nobody advertises what their product "won't" do. That's why it's important to do the research (and no, just reading what it says on Apple's site isn't research). This holds true for *any* product. The bit about Flash was widely publicized as well so it would be exceedingly difficult to find any article/news report about the iPad which didn't at least mention it in passing.
When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
No it doesn't. But when you walk into an Apple store and pick up an iPad... and apparently Facebook is your most important "productivity" tool.... then you bloody well try.... Facebook!
Nobody advertises what their product "won't" do. That's why it's important to do the research (and no, just reading what it says on Apple's site isn't research). This holds true for *any* product. The bit about Flash was widely publicized as well so it would be exceedingly difficult to find any article/news report about the iPad which didn't at least mention it in passing.
I dare say a majority of iPad buyers may not have researched their purchase well enough to specifically identify the lack of Flash support. Apple's mantra has always been their products "just work" which I think leads people to feel less need to investigate everything about their purchase. When you couple that mentality with the pervasiveness of Flash on the internet, I can see why this probably has taken some people by surprise. I'm not disagreeing with Apple's stance on Flash... just their lack of proactive notification to potential buyers.
Thanks, Bancho, for a real answer to my question. You are right, not being an Apple aficionado I probably didn't have enough information before I bought the iPod. I made a bad assumption, I guess, or believed the hype without questioning it. My bad.
In response to an apparent misconception in this thread, Flash isn't just used for games (although games are cool too!).
Bancho, I appreciate your tip about equivalent apps, and I will check it out. You're right, the iPad is a great device, almost miraculous. But IMHO, I think it would be better if Apple were not so proprietary and protective of its profits at the expense of functionality. That is why PC grabbed the biggest market share back in the day even though it's less technologically advance than the Mac (though I'm glad to see Apple coming on strong!).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but being an Apple fanboy doesn't make people more mature. There may be a causal relationship between Apple product owners and maturity, but that's not it.
As for Flash, I have yet to notice aside from coming across the occasional website that doesn't work... and invariably I simply don't care. If it is a big deal to you, however, then the iPad isn't for you. Yet.
Be careful how you assign blame for this though. Flash is a pile of crap that Adobe has been dumping on us for a long time, and it long overdue to be binned like it should have been long ago (please note that this is an independently formed opinion of an experienced software developer [well, many of them really], not just a line repeated by rote). Its about time that Apple and others put forward a usable standards-based replacement (HTML5), and a migration away from Flash begins to happen. Putting Flash on iOS (and any mobile device) wouldn't make it better, it would make it horrible and wouldn't begin the push toward a Flash-free Internet. As that migration happens this issue will become less and less of a problem.
what's with this?? I had a friend SELL his earlier today. He complained about it for the past two months he's owned it. While I don't own one, I do enjoy using them.
what's with this?? I had a friend SELL his earlier today. He complained about it for the past two months he's owned it. While I don't own one, I do enjoy using them.
No device is perfect for everyone. Don't let anecdotal evidence convince you that its a trend though... I know quite a few people that have 'em and love 'em. Including myself.
Comments
We're PC people, but thought we'd dive into the Apple world with the introduction of the iPad. We bought one for portability and frankly, because it seemed cool. Looks like it's great for reading ebooks, viewing photo's & listening to music, and it'll probably be good for word processing etc. after we download some apps.
The iOS devices are all about apps. Thankfully many of them are cheap enough that you can try them out at will.
We use Facebook extensively, including many Facebook apps. My wife is Extremely disappointed, though (as am I) to learn that none of the many Flashplayer based applications that we use with Facebook will work on the iPad. This means we'd have to carry around both a laptop AND an iPad if we want to be productive.
Interesting, I've never been able to grasp FaceBook and have an account that I never use. The question I have to ask is how can anybody be productive on Facebook as it seems to be a waste of time more than anything.
This is, to us, a major, major design flaw (or failure in negotiation) that apparently makes my $900 iPad a gimmicky toy that's not worth anywhere near the price we paid.
That is one way to look at it but you won't likely get a lot of support for that position on this forum. To put it politely as I can Flash sucks on mobile devices and has never been supported well by Adobe. It isn't likely that Adobe will ever be able to get Flash to run well on current hardware found in cell phones and tablets. It isn't possible currently to put enough CPU power into battery powered devices of this sort. That isn't to say the future might not be different, as integration continues to go up and feature size down, we will find ourselves with some extremely powerful hand held devices. That is not the case at the moment though.
Unless we can find a work-around, we will be returning it to the retailer in the next day or two in favor of a lightweight, PC based notebook (or netbook). Not as cool, but much more practical and functional.
Depending on your needs a notebook (it doesn't have to be PC based) might have been a better choice. iPad is designed around the idea of consuming information instead of creating it.
Am I missing something?
Yep I'd say so. The world has changed a lot and Flash has pretty much run its course of acceptability.
Is there a workaround?
In many cases apps. App store is huge, I'd look there if for things that fit your needs.
Did Apple let us down?
Not at all Apple has fully disclosed their position on Flash very publicly and it is well known in the industry. Even if Adobe did offer up Flash for iPad the performance would be pretty terrible as can be seen on with their Android offering.
And is there any reason we shouldn't take this back to the retailer while it is still returnable?
Thanks!
Yeah a couple.
One; is that you might actually sell it for more than it is worth, at least you could a few weeks ago.
Second; it looks like you haven't taken the time to grasp just what iOS devices are and how they are maturing technology wise. I don't have one at the moment but likely will when they come out with one with more RAM, but the device is extremely impressive when you grasp what some of its capabilities are. The long battery life and almost instant usability can be extremely handy traveling. It goes deeper than that but I wouldn't dismiss iPad just because it doesn't do Flash, that in my opinion is a very good thing.
Third; One of the things I love about iPhone is the way it is integrated into or ties together so well with my laptop and my Mobile Me account. While still young and improving the syncing capability is fantastic. Frankly I've never tried with any PC devices so I'm not sure if this will apply to your situation but the fact that I can tap in an address in the field somewhere and have it show up in my Mobile Me account an on my laptop address book is extremely liberating. Many other things sync well also. Once you get use to it this capability is just the nuts and makes Apples handheld devices more useful than you might think.
Fourth; Maybe iPad isn't perfect for your needs, I'm a big iPhone user so you might want to consider that you have the wrong device or that it should be supplemented with something better. In my opinion Apples iOS devices really come into their own when used in conjunction with other PC's be they Macs or Windows machines. Some will object to this idea and admittedly the iPad can function all by itself pretty darn good, but the fact remains that an iPad or iPhone can be seen as peripheral to your main machine. A very powerful one at that, that doesn't require lugging around.
Fifth; if you move to Mac hardware the integration with iPad is even better than that seen with a PC.
It is up to you in the end to keep or dispose of but realize that the device is not a laptop replacement by any means. Rather it is a different approach to mobile computing. It will either work for you or not.
And is there any reason we shouldn't take this back to the retailer while it is still returnable?
About possible reasons you should probably ask yourself. The iPad offers great functionality for many people, even for some professionals, so you have to carefuly think about its possible uses in your own setup.
And by the way, I propose you to read this open letter from S. Jobs himself about Flash:
Thoughts on Flash.
Thanks, Marvin, for an excellent answer to my question. I am learning a lot, especially since my wife got this iPad. I used to know PC's inside out (literally), through the XP operating system. I also used the old Mac operating system (this was way back in the 80's). But I'm retired and haven't kept up with the technology of either PC or Mac the way I used to, so I have a lot to learn about both. And forget about mobile technology... as Sergeant Schultz used to say on Hogan's Heroes, "I know Nothing!!!"
So I appreciate all the answers on here, (except those from users who are just acting like ignorant, adolescent jerks, which maybe they are). I am learning, and I'm so frustrated with Microsoft and their crappy new operating systems that I'm strongly considering buying a Mac when I'm ready to replace my computer. Thanks again, Marvin.
dbpropp, as others are starting to say this isn't an "Apple vs. PC" kind of situation you are running into. More accurately, this is a "lightweight internet device vs. mainstream computer" issue that has you flustered. Lightweight internet devices, whether from Apple or others, aren't designed to be full-blown computer replacements. As it relates to Flash, the jury is still out whether any version of Flash, including this stripped down one that just came out for tablets, will be capable of meeting the needs and desires of internet device owners. The early returns from some Android users (who also aren't on PCs, per se) are not all that encouraging.
My advice is to look at your needs first. If a true computer is what is needed to accomplish all of the tasks you want from a machine, then maybe that is where to look first. Apple has some options along this line including the MacBook and the MacBook Air -- both of which support Flash. If what you want is something ultra-portable as primarily an information gathering device, the iPad is a revolutionary product.
Lastly, for those that throw out the "do your research first" statement, let me point out that Apple doesn't make much of an effort to warn people about the lack of Flash capability on the iPad. When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
Lastly, for those that throw out the "do your research first" statement, let me point out that Apple doesn't make much of an effort to warn people about the lack of Flash capability on the iPad. When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
Nobody advertises what their product "won't" do. That's why it's important to do the research (and no, just reading what it says on Apple's site isn't research). This holds true for *any* product. The bit about Flash was widely publicized as well so it would be exceedingly difficult to find any article/news report about the iPad which didn't at least mention it in passing.
When you walk into the Apple Store and pick up an iPad on display, the sign next to it most certainly doesn't have the line "Doesn't support Adobe Flash" listed along with the other features.
No it doesn't. But when you walk into an Apple store and pick up an iPad... and apparently Facebook is your most important "productivity" tool.... then you bloody well try.... Facebook!
Nobody advertises what their product "won't" do. That's why it's important to do the research (and no, just reading what it says on Apple's site isn't research). This holds true for *any* product. The bit about Flash was widely publicized as well so it would be exceedingly difficult to find any article/news report about the iPad which didn't at least mention it in passing.
I dare say a majority of iPad buyers may not have researched their purchase well enough to specifically identify the lack of Flash support. Apple's mantra has always been their products "just work" which I think leads people to feel less need to investigate everything about their purchase. When you couple that mentality with the pervasiveness of Flash on the internet, I can see why this probably has taken some people by surprise. I'm not disagreeing with Apple's stance on Flash... just their lack of proactive notification to potential buyers.
Not when it stems from a lack of intelligence, it isn't.
Not everyone can be so supreme, like you.
Thanks, Bancho, for a real answer to my question. You are right, not being an Apple aficionado I probably didn't have enough information before I bought the iPod. I made a bad assumption, I guess, or believed the hype without questioning it. My bad.
In response to an apparent misconception in this thread, Flash isn't just used for games (although games are cool too!).
Bancho, I appreciate your tip about equivalent apps, and I will check it out. You're right, the iPad is a great device, almost miraculous. But IMHO, I think it would be better if Apple were not so proprietary and protective of its profits at the expense of functionality. That is why PC grabbed the biggest market share back in the day even though it's less technologically advance than the Mac (though I'm glad to see Apple coming on strong!).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but being an Apple fanboy doesn't make people more mature. There may be a causal relationship between Apple product owners and maturity, but that's not it.
As for Flash, I have yet to notice aside from coming across the occasional website that doesn't work... and invariably I simply don't care. If it is a big deal to you, however, then the iPad isn't for you. Yet.
Be careful how you assign blame for this though. Flash is a pile of crap that Adobe has been dumping on us for a long time, and it long overdue to be binned like it should have been long ago (please note that this is an independently formed opinion of an experienced software developer [well, many of them really], not just a line repeated by rote). Its about time that Apple and others put forward a usable standards-based replacement (HTML5), and a migration away from Flash begins to happen. Putting Flash on iOS (and any mobile device) wouldn't make it better, it would make it horrible and wouldn't begin the push toward a Flash-free Internet. As that migration happens this issue will become less and less of a problem.
what's with this?? I had a friend SELL his earlier today. He complained about it for the past two months he's owned it. While I don't own one, I do enjoy using them.
No device is perfect for everyone. Don't let anecdotal evidence convince you that its a trend though... I know quite a few people that have 'em and love 'em. Including myself.