Consumer Reports condemns end of iPhone 4 free case program

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  • Reply 121 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    I read it a couple months ago. I do see that it agrees with my observation. As I said, I tested by holding it tightly. What does Anand's article say about holding a 3GS tightly? It drops by 14.3 db. Nexus One? 17.7db drop. My tests with an iPhone4 in a case? 15-20db.



    You correct that their tests of 'holding it naturally' showed a miniscule drop of 2db for the 3GS while the iPhone 4 was a huge 19.8 and also correct that a case resolves this.



    I’ve asked Anand to retest the iPhone 4 along with other phones with the new firmware, and now that FieldTest Mode is back on v4.1.



    Doing my own quick and dirty tests I went from between −103 and −99 dB to -89 and −71 dB when touching the “3G Spot”. That is iimprovement of 14 to 28 dB from touching the bad spot on my iPhone 4, which is similar to the results Anand got when bridging the antennas when measuring WiFi. Because of this I’ve also requested that the tests be done in different places as RF is a tricky beast and one area can cause a drop in signal strength while another can cause an increase.



    In any case, it’s clear the iPhone 4 is an improvement over previous phones.
  • Reply 122 of 188
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    I tend to hold it pretty tightly when talking on it (especially when walking) for fear of dropping it and smashing the screen, so 'natural' could well include a tight grip. Certainly, for someone that might hold it in a more limp-wristed manner, a 'natural' grip might be looser.



    Actually scratch that. I just did another test, in case. Holding it in a specific position near the top of the phone to get a base line (-82db and -79db) then moving to a very loose 'natural' grip with the phone in the same place and orientation. Two attempts. First went from -82db to 102db. The second went from 80db to -89db. No where close to the 1.9db loss reported for the 3GS.



    Lot's of variables, it could be the frequency in your area that is causing a more db loss. 1900 MHz loses power easier then 850 MHz. That's why to do an accurate comparison test, you have to test all the phones in the same area using the same frequency band.
  • Reply 123 of 188
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    In any case, it?s clear the iPhone 4 is an improvement over previous phones.



    Not in the real world.
  • Reply 124 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    CR has not had any credibility for a very long time. They've been caught faking tests. They've demonstrated repeatedly that they don't know the first thing about the items they test. Anyone with decent prior knowledge of an item that they read about in CR is bound to howl with laughter at CR's ineptitude. They are especially egregious when it comes to cars and electronics.



    I'm guessing cars and electronics are the things you know most about? Trust me, they are especially egregious with everything they test. Other than that, I agree that CR testing is entirely worthless, has been for years, that they are a fraud perpetrated on uninformed consumers, and that the whole iP4 thing has just exposed them for the subscription whores that they are. Probably, they are hoping for larger bonuses this year.



    (For anyone claiming they are unbiased because they are a non-profit that doesn't accept advertising, yes, CR is a non-profit, but the people who work there are not, and their pay obviously depends on the number of subscribers, which is all they are really focused on at this point, if ever.)
  • Reply 125 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ski1 View Post


    Not in the real world.



    You mean not in the alternate universe of your mind.



    So, are you a private troll or in someone's employ? I wouldn't ask except for the fact that you seem to be a single issue poster who pops up in almost every thread related to iP4 antenna design, and no others.
  • Reply 126 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post


    I'm still on my 3GS, but I've heard mixed iPhone 4 comments from others - some say they have no problems while others do. I'm not discounting those with legitimate problems, but I do think some of it is the power of suggestion. If you hear over and over about an issue even if you don't have that issue you invent it in your mind cuz you must have it also - everyone else does, right? Also some people just like to complain. Lastly, it seems to me Consumer Reports has turned into PETA (and others) by using any and every opportunity to let the world know they are around and get people to visit their site and pay attention to them.



    Agreed. Since the release of the iPhone on AT&T I've heard non-stop about how terrible AT&T service is and how wonderful Verizon service is. Bogus, both of them had their strengths & weaknesses when iPhone was released but my AT&T service has gotten better while my friends with Verizon have been noticing more & more dropped calls. Even with that I'm inclined to believe my experience won't expand to everyone.



    There are so many technical aspects to cell service people simply don't understand, yet know nothing reporters love to shoot off at the mouth about how crappy one service is and how glorious another is. People just need to stop generalizing & realize that AT&T has some great service areas and some crappy ones, as does Verizon. Pick the service and device that works best in your area and you'll be a happier person. If you are picking service provider, ask some people you trust how often they experience dropped calls in your area, most of us have one or 2 friends who complain about where they have issues with their cell service. Look at coverage maps, some cities will have excellent map coverage with little pockets of no coverage. If you live near a no or low coverage pocket you probably shouldn't go with that service.
  • Reply 127 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post


    That's fine. It's still censorship, by definition.



    (note that I don't personally care. Just pointing out esummers's apparent hypocrisy)



    Your mistake, in logic and understanding, is to believe that two things to which the same word may be applied are equivalent. Obviously, this is incorrect.



    Take two things, a red car and a red herring. According to your logic, since the word 'red' applies to both, they are the same. But, clearly a red car is very different from a red herring, and a red herring is very different from a red car.



    Now, let us look at 'censorship'. This is a very broad term that simply means "suppression of information". It can apply to me choosing not to use the word 'idiot' in describing someone, but instead saying that he is, "having trouble understanding." I have "censored" myself. As pointed out, Apple has very specific terms of use for it's user-to-user support forums. Posts that do not adhere to those terms of use violate the contract the user enters into with Apple for the use of the forums and are removed. Apple has "censored" the forums so that the posts there do adhere to the terms of use. The posts that CR is not making public are not subject to any such terms of use as that they must agree with CR or some other criteria. CR is "censoring" the posts in an arbitrary fashion, according to guidelines that are not made public.



    How is this different? Well, first, anyone who has their comments removed from Apple's support forums knows exactly why they were removed: because they did not adhere to the terms of use that person agreed to. A third party, noticing that certain posts have been removed, will also know why they were removed. It's an honest, consistent and transparent policy.



    On the other hand, CR has not publicly established any terms of use saying that only agreeable comments will be approved. These comments are kept from public view, with no indication that they might be, giving to the reader an entirely false impression of how people are reacting to CR's statements. It's not at all transparent or honest in CR to do this; it may be consistent with their usual behavior.



    So, two instances of "censorship", but two very different cases. Apple is being honest and transparent. CR is being dishonest and deceptive. Thus, even though the same term applies to both cases, they are only similar in the most superficial and meaningless way. While you may not see the distinction, or choose to ignore it, it's rather obvious to anyone with an intelligent interest that there is no commonality in the cases, and that your claim that Apple does it too, is not only mistaken in the particular, but very much not a red car, but that other red thing.
  • Reply 128 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by enjourni View Post


    I usually hold CR in high regard,.



    I don't. Not since the late 1970's, when I learned about audio equipment, and then read their reviews. That was plenty enough to convince me.



    For stuff like toasters, I'd trust them. For anything more complex or subtle, I think their methodology and their weighting system are both fatally flawed.



    They actually feel that stereo speakers can be summed up in a single number which represents quality. They also tend to rate crap products with lots of features higher than quality gear which sounds good and will satisfy the buyer for a long time.



    I don't take them seriously for anything that might have an enthusiast press with valid testing. Their tests of coffee, for example, are laughable.
  • Reply 129 of 188
    There are more serious issues with iPhone 4 than the blown-out-of-proportion 'antennagate' issue.



    Example:



    Manufacturing quality - seems like there is an increasing discrepancies with the quality. More and more new iPhone 4 are found to exhibit some of the following defects:



    - 'blue-tint' camera effect,

    - micro-gap between the glass surface and the body,

    - warm (more yellowish) or cold (more bluish) retina display



    These are just some of the common complaints from the fast increasing iPhone user-base in the country I reside in. The user-base is approx. 1:3 based on last released statistics.
  • Reply 130 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chaicka View Post


    There are more serious issues with iPhone 4 than the blown-out-of-proportion 'antennagate' issue.



    Example:



    Manufacturing quality - seems like there is an increasing discrepancies with the quality. More and more new iPhone 4 are found to exhibit some of the following defects:



    - 'blue-tint' camera effect,

    - micro-gap between the glass surface and the body,

    - warm (more yellowish) or cold (more bluish) retina display



    These are just some of the common complaints from the fast increasing iPhone user-base in the country I reside in. The user-base is approx. 1:3 based on last released statistics.



    1) Do you have a link for these released stats?



    2) "Antennagate" has unfortunately made real issues go unnoticed.



    3) I haven't heard about any of the issues you stated above. The camera SW did have a low light issue that required you guess when to take the snapshot in order to no get a yellowing effect, but that was resolved in v4.1. It's possible the new firmware is over compensating.



    4) The new display is adhered to the glass so if you or anyone you know has a gap between them get a new model immediately. Previously there was mention of glue not drying completely but that doesn't sound like this issue an even that is unacceptable to me a I expect a finished product not one that will 'cure' weeks later.
  • Reply 131 of 188
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ski1 View Post


    LOL. Thanks for proving my point that you can't debunk my real world example. The fact remains the iPhone 3GS outperforms the iPhone 4 (without a bumper) when holding the phones naturally in the real world.



    There are much more factors affecting cell phone performance than just raw signal strength. Noise-signal ratio came to mind easily.



    The iPhone antenna design is best characterized as a design compromise. It's trading 20db signal strength on the low end for much better reception when the signal strength is high enough.
  • Reply 132 of 188
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    Based on my first hand experience, I'd say that CR has accurately reported this issue and I fully understand why they would decline to endorse the product. I have owned my ip4 for about three weeks, and can consistently reproduce the signal degradation issue on my phone in "weak" signal areas when it is not in a case. Just to be clear, weak does not mean driving out to BFE for a phone call; I'm in the DC metro area. I do think that Jobs was less that forthright during the press conference and that Apple is fully aware that a design flaw exists.



    I did not set out to prove that this issue existed, and at first didn't think my phone was affected. It wasn't until I experienced dropped calls and really bad reception that I paid attention to the way I held the phone. Changing my grip to an "approved" method has mitigated the effects of the signal drop. Without a case, I need to be careful only to grasp the top half of the phone body (which is awkward for me). With a case installed, I can make calls without issue.



    It is unfortunate that this topic has spurred the vitriol from Apple detractors and fans alike. Between exaggerations of the problems and flat-out denials, it is hard for a buyer to truly gauge the extent issue. The bottom line is that a problem exists; if you do not want to use a case, then this issue may be an annoyance that you need to live with. Ironically, I am thrilled with every aspect of the iPhone 4...except the phone.
  • Reply 133 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Keda View Post


    Based on my first hand experience, I'd say that CR has accurately reported this issue...



    No, what they've done is jump on a bandwagon to garner publicity, which they hope to translate into increased subscriber base and, thus, higher salaries for themselves. It's not like they actually "uncovered" this issue in their testing. Nor is it the case that they have tested other phones for this phenomenon. (Obviously not, since they remain willfully ignorant of all the phones that have pretty much the same issue -- unless you are one of those people who love distinctions without differences, and like to shout, "One finger!" from the rooftops as your rallying cry. What does it matter if it's one finger or one hand, no one can hold a phone with one finger.)



    Now they've backed themselves into a very uncomfortable position where to be honest with their subscribers, they have to admit that they overreacted. But, if they admit they overreacted they compromise the (misplaced) faith those subscribers have in them. So now they are stuck pretending, to save face, that there's this huge problem that doesn't really exist. Sad, really, and one has to wonder with how many other products they have played this same, essentially dishonest, game.
  • Reply 134 of 188
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    No, what they've done is jump on a bandwagon to garner publicity, which they hope to translate into increased subscriber base and, thus, higher salaries for themselves. It's not like they actually "uncovered" this issue in their testing.



    CR did replicate the poor behavior in their testing. CR wasn't the original discoverer, but that's irrelevant. CR reaches a different cross-section of consumers than AnandTech, people who have paid to be informed. CR is doing their job and, in my opinion, doing it well.



    Quote:

    [...] those people who love distinctions without differences, and like to shout, "One finger!" from the rooftops as your rallying cry. What does it matter if it's one finger or one hand, no one can hold a phone with one finger.)



    You're totally off base. All it takes is one finger or a light touch in the wrong location on the iPhone 4 to knock its reception down a lot.



    Quote:

    Now they've backed themselves into a very uncomfortable position where to be honest with their subscribers,



    Oh, pulleaze.
  • Reply 135 of 188
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    since they remain willfully ignorant of all the phones that have pretty much the same issue



    LOL, you sure do have your head pretty deep in the sand !!! Funny how many other knowledgeable independent sources show the iPhone has an unique issue. It's called antenna detuning. Due to the flawed antenna design. Completely different then attenuation that of course all phones have to varying degrees. You sure do like spinning facts !!! Why ? Oh and of course when someone disagrees with you, you resort to being childish and calling them names instead of having a mature discussion. It tells me a lot about you. Cheers !!
  • Reply 136 of 188
    I've read some of these comments and it's deja vu all over again. I can't believe this debate is still raging. The iPhone 4 is selling like hotcakes and from what I can tell the only people who care about the antenna design are CR and a few AI whiners. Come on guys give it a rest. All this article did was stir the hornets nest. I'm just patiently waiting for my Verizon iPhone in January. \
  • Reply 137 of 188
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    Of course CR should test all phones in the same manner, but I haven't seen any legitimate evidence to suggest that CR applied biased testing on the ip4 (although this claim is often repeated). A problem does exist with this iPhone's antenna. Although you may not agree, CR is well within their rights to withhold an endorsement of a product with which they can demonstrate a repeatable flaw. They are also correct to criticize Apple for ending a program that addresses this design flaw.



    The signal issue is an annoyance that detracts from an otherwise outstanding device. My recommendation to prospective ip4 buyers: I love my iPhone and it is a great device, but it needs a case to handle calls reliably.



    BTW, I don't read CR.
  • Reply 138 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    The iPhone 4 is selling like hotcakes \





    Is that all that matters? IIRC, the Ford Pinto also sold like hotcakes.
  • Reply 139 of 188
    ski1ski1 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post


    I'm just patiently waiting for my Verizon iPhone in January. \



    A Verizon iPhone will be nice if it really happens in Jan. And I would wager the iPhone on Verizon will have a revised antenna design. I wonder why
  • Reply 140 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ski1 View Post


    A Verizon iPhone will be nice if it really happens. And I would wager the iPhone on Verizon will have a revised antenna design.



    See, now making a prediction I?m fine with. I do disagree with your statement as I think the frame will still be the antenna for next year?s phones as the benefits far outweigh any cons.



    However, if your argument is that Apple will ?change? the antenna design in some way, I?ll point out that Apple has ?changed" every iPhone with each new release. So what you stating is like wagering the sun will rise tomorrow. If you also argue that changing the antenna design in any way is proof that the iPhone 4 is flawed at the design level then I?ll point out that would mean that every iPhone has been flawed at the design level, as stated by such an argument. So what exactly are you wagering?
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