Which brings up an interesting point. When not at school in Minnesota, I live in Berkeley and Oakland in California (parents are divorced thus two houses...). While there is some white racism, what I've run into the most is black racism. There have been many many times when I've been made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, unwanted, and on the very rare occasion fearful for no reason other than that I am white and in a predominately black area (not that Berkeley and Oakland are, but parts of them are). And it is black racism mostly, not non-white racism. While it does exist, I almost never get the same hostility from Hispanics who are vastly more numerous or Asians who are also pretty numerous.
The only times I've really experience white racism is when we lived in New Jersey (where we were in a small town, and previous to that way out in the Pine Barrens).
You expect to experience white racism when you're white? How's that again? Don't be so thick. White racism exists. You want me to quote you some stats and studies on it, I will (just give me a couple of days to get relevant references).
[note: I'm not saying that it doesn't go the other way around, as well. But white (at least, european) racism has caused a lot more trouble than any other kind in the history of the modern world.
You expect to experience white racism when you're white? How's that again? Don't be so thick. White racism exists... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaking of thick, nonhuman wasn't arguing that white racism doesn't exist. As for experiencing white racism well, no, but a white person can certainly witness it. In fact, a white person may have more opportunites to witness racism simply because he or she might be more likely to catch another white person in an unguarded moment. Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
Speaking of thick, nonhuman wasn't arguing that white racism doesn't exist.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Point taken.
[quote]<strong>
In fact, a white person may have more opportunites to witness racism simply because he or she might be more likely to catch another white person in an unguarded moment.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? You have any proof of that? Or are you just making up some psychological theory?
[quote]<strong>
Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
And how do you know that part of your criticism isn't unconsciously fueled by racism? And how do you know that's what a black would think? I guess because it's ok for you to read into their motives but not for them to read into yours It goes both ways.
And how do you know that part of your criticism isn't unconsciously fueled by racism?<hr></blockquote>
Now who's reading into another person's motives?
[quote]Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
And how do you know that's what a black would think? <hr></blockquote>
I'm not implying anything. I'm merely pointing out the double standard that many people have in their thinking. Namely, that it's ok for you to read someone else's mind but it's not ok for them to do the same to you. Do you get it or shall I clarify further? Either it's acceptable to do that, or it's not. If it's not, then don't go saying that that's what they are thinking. If it is, then deal with it.
[edit: Next time, don't take my post out of context. The two questions were related and both rhetorical.]
<strong>I'm not implying anything. I'm merely pointing out the double standard that many people have in their thinking. Namely, that it's ok for you to read someone else's mind but it's not ok for them to do the same to you. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Read someone's mind? What are you talking about? Are you unaware that there are black people who openly say whether or not they think they are the victim of racism? (If it's true, they should speak up.)
[quote]<strong>Do you get it or shall I clarify further? Either it's acceptable to do that, or it's not. If it's not, then don't go saying that that's what they are thinking. If it is, then deal with it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Clarify this. This is a true story. I have two friends. One is black the other is white. One of them wanted to rent a car for a weekend. He went to the car rental place saw a car over by the fence that he wanted to rent. The car rental place didn't want to rent that car for some reason or other. They brought up an identical (his words) car but it was a different color instead. The other friend wanted to buy a treadmill. He shopped around and saw the make and model he wanted. When he went to buy it, he was told that the only one they had was the floor model. They had none in inventory. He asked the sales person to check to see if they had one at one of their other stores. The sales person said he'd check. Came back and said, sorry, no. Later, after my friend got home, he called some of the other stores and found out that one of them had the treadmill he wanted in stock. Which friend told me he was the victim of racism and which one chalked it up to bad customer service?
[quote]I lived in Texas for a year, and from unfortunate first hand observation, for every Al Sharpton, there must be at least 10,000 David Dukes.<hr></blockquote>
For every racist, there are 10,000 racists?
I'm not following what you're saying.
This is one of the more humorous threads I've seen today...
BRussell, your nicely colored map there kind of shows that the northern states are quite fond of murder as well. The Midwest is relatively calm, however.
<strong>BRussell, your nicely colored map there kind of shows that the northern states are quite fond of murder as well. The Midwest is relatively calm, however.
A very profound bigot, you are.</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, at least I'm profound.
I think it's good that you folks are talking about this, but make sure that you're covering everything.
Crime is more of a personal threat in the South because law enforcement is spread out and the chance of getting busted is slim. That's also one reason that we need our own personal protection.
As for the DEATH penalty, we won't ever know whether or not it's a deterrent in this country, because there's no way to link the verdict with the execution. When it takes 15 years to carry out the sentence, it kinda loses its impact. And it serves as a deterrent, but it also serves to keep the crud off of the street. The deterrent effect is clearly the reason to do it. I'd like to see the heads on posts outside the town gate, but those days are passed.
And as for RACISM -- I've always understood that minorities are far more closely scrutinized up north, where there are fewer minorities. Not that I have personal knowledge, but this is from friends of mine who've tried to live up north. You see, where I grew up there was almost no discrimination, since just about everyone was poor as hell, and that tended to unite us. Same for the prior generation or so, as well.
As for stupid and backwards Southerners, that's ridiculous. I've known plenty of stupid and backwards Yankees. Case in point: wrestling venues fill up on BOTH SIDES of the Mason/Dixon line.
<strong>we gotta have our guns. its as simple as that. its security. (i dont own a gun btw...)
in the south, we have to deal w/ all this racist bullsh*t. in the north, u have to deal w/ the canadians. it seems that we got the good end of that deal. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I grew up in Atlanta, and I've met more racist people in New England than I ever met in Atlanta. I lived in Midtown though, not in the sticks, so maybe you see less of it in an urban setting. Nevertheless, I live two blocks from Fenway Park in Boston, and living around here, I can still say I've met more racists here than Atlanta.
A good friend of mine says that he'd never seen anything like the racism around Boston. That's after having grown up in the middle of Virginia cow country. Plus, he's lived all over the country since, including Atlanta.
I can back that up. I had a roommate at Virginia Tech that grew up in cow country Virginia. His roommate before me was a black guy. His father was a truck driver so it wasn't like he was some NoVA upper middle class guy. We all got a long just fine. Who'da thunk it? Not the knee jerk liberals that's for sure.
I live in California so I don't see a lot of racism first hand... everywhere I've lived has been real diverse which is nice.
Now that I'm at a University I hear a lot more about the racism that people have experienced throughout the country. One person in my dorm is of Middle Eastern descent, and lives in Georgia. He said every white person down there is racist, and when he got here he just figured it'd be the same way. He said he was really surprised to find that it's not, and that he still has a hard time dealing with it.
put all the stupid people in one state that noone cares about (like minnesota or alaska) and lock it up. then let the real people have the rest of the country.
or...we can go back to social darwinism...survival of the fittest always works. no more letting the stupid and weak survive. if they arent fit to live, then they die. at the very least, STOP LETTING THEM BREED!!!
So, basically, what all of you are saying is that it's better for us to generate our own half-assed theories about why murder rates are higher in the south than to discuss the actual results of several (well-conducted) psychological studies? BRussell, you're a psychologist, back me up on this one.
All you armchair psychologists need to read the link that BRussell provided a few posts back. Then come back here and discuss. No wonder I don't get into discussions in this forum more often. People would rather talk about personal experiences than what actually happens.
Comments
<strong>
Which brings up an interesting point. When not at school in Minnesota, I live in Berkeley and Oakland in California (parents are divorced thus two houses...). While there is some white racism, what I've run into the most is black racism. There have been many many times when I've been made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, unwanted, and on the very rare occasion fearful for no reason other than that I am white and in a predominately black area (not that Berkeley and Oakland are, but parts of them are). And it is black racism mostly, not non-white racism. While it does exist, I almost never get the same hostility from Hispanics who are vastly more numerous or Asians who are also pretty numerous.
The only times I've really experience white racism is when we lived in New Jersey (where we were in a small town, and previous to that way out in the Pine Barrens).
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: nonhuman ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
You expect to experience white racism when you're white? How's that again? Don't be so thick. White racism exists. You want me to quote you some stats and studies on it, I will (just give me a couple of days to get relevant references).
[note: I'm not saying that it doesn't go the other way around, as well. But white (at least, european) racism has caused a lot more trouble than any other kind in the history of the modern world.
<strong>
You expect to experience white racism when you're white? How's that again? Don't be so thick. White racism exists... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaking of thick, nonhuman wasn't arguing that white racism doesn't exist. As for experiencing white racism well, no, but a white person can certainly witness it. In fact, a white person may have more opportunites to witness racism simply because he or she might be more likely to catch another white person in an unguarded moment. Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
<strong>
Speaking of thick, nonhuman wasn't arguing that white racism doesn't exist.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Point taken.
[quote]<strong>
In fact, a white person may have more opportunites to witness racism simply because he or she might be more likely to catch another white person in an unguarded moment.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really? You have any proof of that? Or are you just making up some psychological theory?
[quote]<strong>
Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
And how do you know that part of your criticism isn't unconsciously fueled by racism? And how do you know that's what a black would think? I guess because it's ok for you to read into their motives but not for them to read into yours
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
And how do you know that part of your criticism isn't unconsciously fueled by racism?<hr></blockquote>
Now who's reading into another person's motives?
[quote]Moreover, a lot of what is percieved by blacks to be racism isn't that at all. If I'm critical of a white person it's because of the thing I'm criticizing. But if I did the same thing to a black person it can easily be percieved as "evidence" of racism.
And how do you know that's what a black would think? <hr></blockquote>
Are you implying that this never happens?
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
[edit: Next time, don't take my post out of context. The two questions were related and both rhetorical.]
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
You can't really compare the two.
You can't really compare the two.<hr></blockquote>
Why not? Its a homicide *rate* he's quoting, not comparing totals.
<strong>I'm not implying anything. I'm merely pointing out the double standard that many people have in their thinking. Namely, that it's ok for you to read someone else's mind but it's not ok for them to do the same to you. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Read someone's mind? What are you talking about? Are you unaware that there are black people who openly say whether or not they think they are the victim of racism? (If it's true, they should speak up.)
[quote]<strong>Do you get it or shall I clarify further? Either it's acceptable to do that, or it's not. If it's not, then don't go saying that that's what they are thinking. If it is, then deal with it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Clarify this. This is a true story. I have two friends. One is black the other is white. One of them wanted to rent a car for a weekend. He went to the car rental place saw a car over by the fence that he wanted to rent. The car rental place didn't want to rent that car for some reason or other. They brought up an identical (his words) car but it was a different color instead. The other friend wanted to buy a treadmill. He shopped around and saw the make and model he wanted. When he went to buy it, he was told that the only one they had was the floor model. They had none in inventory. He asked the sales person to check to see if they had one at one of their other stores. The sales person said he'd check. Came back and said, sorry, no. Later, after my friend got home, he called some of the other stores and found out that one of them had the treadmill he wanted in stock. Which friend told me he was the victim of racism and which one chalked it up to bad customer service?
[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
For every racist, there are 10,000 racists?
I'm not following what you're saying.
This is one of the more humorous threads I've seen today...
BRussell, your nicely colored map there kind of shows that the northern states are quite fond of murder as well. The Midwest is relatively calm, however.
A very profound bigot, you are.
<strong>BRussell, your nicely colored map there kind of shows that the northern states are quite fond of murder as well. The Midwest is relatively calm, however.
A very profound bigot, you are.</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, at least I'm profound.
<strong>Well, at least I'm profound.
As always.
I think it's good that you folks are talking about this, but make sure that you're covering everything.
Crime is more of a personal threat in the South because law enforcement is spread out and the chance of getting busted is slim. That's also one reason that we need our own personal protection.
As for the DEATH penalty, we won't ever know whether or not it's a deterrent in this country, because there's no way to link the verdict with the execution. When it takes 15 years to carry out the sentence, it kinda loses its impact. And it serves as a deterrent, but it also serves to keep the crud off of the street. The deterrent effect is clearly the reason to do it. I'd like to see the heads on posts outside the town gate, but those days are passed.
And as for RACISM -- I've always understood that minorities are far more closely scrutinized up north, where there are fewer minorities. Not that I have personal knowledge, but this is from friends of mine who've tried to live up north. You see, where I grew up there was almost no discrimination, since just about everyone was poor as hell, and that tended to unite us. Same for the prior generation or so, as well.
As for stupid and backwards Southerners, that's ridiculous. I've known plenty of stupid and backwards Yankees. Case in point: wrestling venues fill up on BOTH SIDES of the Mason/Dixon line.
[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: finboy ]</p>
<strong>we gotta have our guns. its as simple as that. its security. (i dont own a gun btw...)
in the south, we have to deal w/ all this racist bullsh*t. in the north, u have to deal w/ the canadians. it seems that we got the good end of that deal.
I grew up in Atlanta, and I've met more racist people in New England than I ever met in Atlanta. I lived in Midtown though, not in the sticks, so maybe you see less of it in an urban setting. Nevertheless, I live two blocks from Fenway Park in Boston, and living around here, I can still say I've met more racists here than Atlanta.
[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
Now that I'm at a University I hear a lot more about the racism that people have experienced throughout the country. One person in my dorm is of Middle Eastern descent, and lives in Georgia. He said every white person down there is racist, and when he got here he just figured it'd be the same way. He said he was really surprised to find that it's not, and that he still has a hard time dealing with it.
I personally think it's guns. The gun rates are higher in the South, and so are the murder rates.
About half of all household in the South have a gun, compared to about 1/3 in the rest of the country.
And virtually all homicides are with guns. Seems pretty clear to me.
You are a tool with a cause.
Crimes are committed mainly by people. Seems pretty clear to me. Ban people.
or...we can go back to social darwinism...survival of the fittest always works. no more letting the stupid and weak survive. if they arent fit to live, then they die. at the very least, STOP LETTING THEM BREED!!!
only the strong must pass on genetics.
that sound better...?
All you armchair psychologists need to read the link that BRussell provided a few posts back. Then come back here and discuss. No wonder I don't get into discussions in this forum more often. People would rather talk about personal experiences than what actually happens.