Since we're going down memory lane, wasn't there this guy from the Toronto area, Matsu maybe, who seemed to have a different Mac every two weeks or so?
Since we're going down memory lane, wasn't there this guy from the Toronto area, Matsu maybe, who seemed to have a different Mac every two weeks or so?
I miss MadTool and the crazy Windows Paint looking Truth Train pics. Ca$h is still hopping around Macnn forums, unless they banned him again.
Was MadTool before or after the great AI blackout???
Haven't been to AI in quite some time, surprised I remembered my login details.
As I recall, wasn't MadTool, along with Miss Tron, a 68k alter ego? They were all pre-blackout.
Even Trumptman's big lie was um... trumped... by that little piece of deception-in-the-name-of-sociological-research.
I miss Leonis and his comic, I miss michaelm8000 and his icons (and I was proud of his being hired at 17 years old by Delicious Monster and later, Apple), I miss Mandolux and his desktops and I miss The Illustrator and his mockups. I also miss Mac O' the Isles for his humor, though I'm sure he was someone's alter ego as well.
Me... a long, long time ago, I had the alter ego "Axle of Elvis". That handle is long since retired (I don't think I registered it after the blackout) and I don't have any other handles now.
True enough, but in the case of the Apple Insider forums, that shared sense of beleaguered sub-culture also fostered a pretty cohesive group of people with shared interests beyond Apple ownership. Most certainly in part because Apple ownership, in those days, was likely drawing from a fairly narrow demographic. These forums featured very lively conversations about anything and everything-- at times Apple kit seemed like the least of it.
Open online communities are pretty mutable things, since the barriers to entry and exit are very low and the potential membership base is pretty much anyone on the planet. It's very difficult to establish a convivial tone without onerous rules, or a deliberately cultivated obscurity.
At any rate, once that core group split off, these forums never again had quite the same sense of ongoing shared conversation amongst friends, for good or ill. Admittedly, a self limiting roster of "insiders" who dominate the proceedings can also lead to stagnation and an enervating, self-referential tone, but clearly a wide open free for all can lead to a lot of random nonsense and many a thread swamped out by people who have no particular affinity to the site or its members.
But you're certainly right that in the case of this here particular Mac site the changing fortunes of Apple changes the likely profile of the average poster. I notice that Ars Technica, and the Mac forums therein, seem to manage a pretty focused discussion. Not sure if that's because Ars is relatively technical and attracts a lot of pretty well informed people, or if the moderation is different, or if there are instances of boneheads wandering in and getting their asses scorched off, but I would say that the better part of it is the stable group of regular posters who informally set a tone and create at least the sense that simply bursting in and shooting your mouth off isn't going to go over very well-- or at least if you're going to do that it might be wise to have a coherent argument. Which is to say that a critical mass of invested members to the point that intelligent discussion is the norm rather than the exception obviously helps a lot, and that once you cross a threshold into dithering mob it may be difficult to reassert any sense of cohesiveness (see also 99% of the internet).
While I agree that it is hard for any forums to lose what would probably amount to half their top twenty posters, as you note the barrier to entry is low and people from all over the world can and have come in to fill that void.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
The insider/nova epoch wasn't that significant in my opinion. It seemed like all but a few of the nova posters also continued to frequent insider.
The most significant change i've observed is in the nature of posts. Previously, apple was far less mainstream and members tended to be a more narrow niche of geek. Now that iWhatevers are everywhere and apple is in the news all the time, posts have really changed.
I'd even hazard a guess that the average age has gone down significantly. It used to be rare for a teenager to have their own personal Mac and to be personally invested in a platform. Now, not so much. That is even more true when figuring in iGadgets.
Interestingly, the Mac vs Windows vs Linux thing has died down, replaced by iPhone vs the world bickering. Desktop platform allegiance just isn't the in thing any more.
In my opinion, the change in the nature and tone of the forums is easily understood and easily fixable by the management. They've not chosen to do so but that is their choice. The nature of discussion on here has changed because instead of users starting threads about whatever they want and then having them wander in a number of interesting and informative directions, the powers that be generate a new thread for every topic they discuss on the front news page. You go any any of the major forums or sub-forums and all the topics are started by "Appleinsider".
You are still free to start a thread, but it isn't as if the people running the board will merge the two or heed the fact one has already been started on that topic in the event that a news post is made that happens to hit a previously started thread. So if someone starts a speculation thread say along the lines of "My stock discussion board found this guy who said this company is suppying a thin camera module for the next iPad." If AppleInsider runs across the same information, a thread will show up "Rumored Possible Supplier for Next iPad Camera" and it will be right next to the user started thread. This makes posting a passive and reactionary experience and even if you don't become that way, the energies and efforts end up divided.
It's going to pretty much remain that way when you walk into every forum and 90% of the threads are started for comments to news items. When you go to competing news/forum sites, MacRumors as an example they have a specific sub-forum called MacRumors.com News Discussion and that is where all the news generated threads and replies to them go. This leaves all the broader forums available for user generated posts, speculation and discussion. It is a practice I wish they would adopt here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton
Oh... and I miss Groverat and his unbalanced moderation, too...
Comments
Since we're going down memory lane, wasn't there this guy from the Toronto area, Matsu maybe, who seemed to have a different Mac every two weeks or so?
Matsu's still active over at the other place.
Haven't been to AI in quite some time, surprised I remembered my login details.
Ditto.
I miss MadTool and the crazy Windows Paint looking Truth Train pics.
Was MadTool before or after the great AI blackout???
Haven't been to AI in quite some time, surprised I remembered my login details.
As I recall, wasn't MadTool, along with Miss Tron, a 68k alter ego? They were all pre-blackout.
Even Trumptman's big lie was um... trumped... by that little piece of deception-in-the-name-of-sociological-research.
I miss Leonis and his comic, I miss michaelm8000 and his icons (and I was proud of his being hired at 17 years old by Delicious Monster and later, Apple), I miss Mandolux and his desktops and I miss The Illustrator and his mockups. I also miss Mac O' the Isles for his humor, though I'm sure he was someone's alter ego as well.
Me... a long, long time ago, I had the alter ego "Axle of Elvis". That handle is long since retired (I don't think I registered it after the blackout) and I don't have any other handles now.
Is it true that AppleInsider was a lot busier at one time than it currently is
Yes, but the 'attendance' varies wildly depending on whether Apple has recently launched, or is expected to launch, new products.
True enough, but in the case of the Apple Insider forums, that shared sense of beleaguered sub-culture also fostered a pretty cohesive group of people with shared interests beyond Apple ownership. Most certainly in part because Apple ownership, in those days, was likely drawing from a fairly narrow demographic. These forums featured very lively conversations about anything and everything-- at times Apple kit seemed like the least of it.
Open online communities are pretty mutable things, since the barriers to entry and exit are very low and the potential membership base is pretty much anyone on the planet. It's very difficult to establish a convivial tone without onerous rules, or a deliberately cultivated obscurity.
At any rate, once that core group split off, these forums never again had quite the same sense of ongoing shared conversation amongst friends, for good or ill. Admittedly, a self limiting roster of "insiders" who dominate the proceedings can also lead to stagnation and an enervating, self-referential tone, but clearly a wide open free for all can lead to a lot of random nonsense and many a thread swamped out by people who have no particular affinity to the site or its members.
But you're certainly right that in the case of this here particular Mac site the changing fortunes of Apple changes the likely profile of the average poster. I notice that Ars Technica, and the Mac forums therein, seem to manage a pretty focused discussion. Not sure if that's because Ars is relatively technical and attracts a lot of pretty well informed people, or if the moderation is different, or if there are instances of boneheads wandering in and getting their asses scorched off, but I would say that the better part of it is the stable group of regular posters who informally set a tone and create at least the sense that simply bursting in and shooting your mouth off isn't going to go over very well-- or at least if you're going to do that it might be wise to have a coherent argument. Which is to say that a critical mass of invested members to the point that intelligent discussion is the norm rather than the exception obviously helps a lot, and that once you cross a threshold into dithering mob it may be difficult to reassert any sense of cohesiveness (see also 99% of the internet).
While I agree that it is hard for any forums to lose what would probably amount to half their top twenty posters, as you note the barrier to entry is low and people from all over the world can and have come in to fill that void.
The insider/nova epoch wasn't that significant in my opinion. It seemed like all but a few of the nova posters also continued to frequent insider.
The most significant change i've observed is in the nature of posts. Previously, apple was far less mainstream and members tended to be a more narrow niche of geek. Now that iWhatevers are everywhere and apple is in the news all the time, posts have really changed.
I'd even hazard a guess that the average age has gone down significantly. It used to be rare for a teenager to have their own personal Mac and to be personally invested in a platform. Now, not so much. That is even more true when figuring in iGadgets.
Interestingly, the Mac vs Windows vs Linux thing has died down, replaced by iPhone vs the world bickering. Desktop platform allegiance just isn't the in thing any more.
In my opinion, the change in the nature and tone of the forums is easily understood and easily fixable by the management. They've not chosen to do so but that is their choice. The nature of discussion on here has changed because instead of users starting threads about whatever they want and then having them wander in a number of interesting and informative directions, the powers that be generate a new thread for every topic they discuss on the front news page. You go any any of the major forums or sub-forums and all the topics are started by "Appleinsider".
You are still free to start a thread, but it isn't as if the people running the board will merge the two or heed the fact one has already been started on that topic in the event that a news post is made that happens to hit a previously started thread. So if someone starts a speculation thread say along the lines of "My stock discussion board found this guy who said this company is suppying a thin camera module for the next iPad." If AppleInsider runs across the same information, a thread will show up "Rumored Possible Supplier for Next iPad Camera" and it will be right next to the user started thread. This makes posting a passive and reactionary experience and even if you don't become that way, the energies and efforts end up divided.
It's going to pretty much remain that way when you walk into every forum and 90% of the threads are started for comments to news items. When you go to competing news/forum sites, MacRumors as an example they have a specific sub-forum called MacRumors.com News Discussion and that is where all the news generated threads and replies to them go. This leaves all the broader forums available for user generated posts, speculation and discussion. It is a practice I wish they would adopt here.
Oh... and I miss Groverat and his unbalanced moderation, too...
Unbalanced in more ways than one.
Unbalanced in more ways than one.
True, that.