Apple sues 'HyperMac' accessory maker over MagSafe, iPod cables

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  • Reply 61 of 172
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4miler View Post


    Back to topic.



    Spoil sport



    Quote:

    I was furious when I read Apple's legal action against HyperMac.



    I have a long-life HyperMac battery. Said to last around 10-12 hours. If Apple does not allow other manufacturers to make these products for the Mac -- and Apple does not -- then it is just plain spitefulness.



    For the MagSafe, I agree. Especially with Apple moving to non-removable batteries in notebooks. If Apple has a licensing program for MagSafe I retract my criticism and shame on HyperMac, but I have never heard of such a program that exists for MagSafe like it exists for the iPod connector.
  • Reply 62 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    It's really too bad that Apple refuses to allow their proprietary connector to have much of an ecosystem.



    It sounds to me like these products are in a woefully underserved category. I tried and tried to find an external disposable battery charger in a local store and went empty-handed into the electricity-free camping zone. No plugging my iPhone into AA power. No nothing until I got back with a dead phone and saw some obscure stuff on the 'web.



    Apple's lockdowns and their proprietary ways both just plain suck.



    There are many emergency units that include a USB power port or DC car outlet port (or both) for hooking up portable devices while camping. This company could also easily create battery units that have a USB port & car port, which would cover both iPhone/iPad/iPod touch devices & laptops (if you have laptop car charger).



    This company decided to do it this way, despite it obviously infringing on Apple's patents, and when Apple contacted them they blew them off. No one is to blame except this company.



    Apple has to patent their inventions to protect them, they then license them so that 3rd parties can make accessories for their products (this also provides quality control). Licensing a product isn't free for a company, they have to pay employees to manage that program and lawyers to protect patents against companies like HyperMac. If they make a little money off the licensing, big whoop, it's their invention. Apple then has an obligation to go after companies that violate these patents, otherwise it isn't fair to those who have played by the rules.



    People get so up in arms that companies protect their intellectual property, they think they are just entitled to take what they want. If companies can't patent good ideas why in the world would they waste time on developing them. If companies couldn't protect their intellectual property they wouldn't innovate, there would be no money in it. Come back to reality, we all have to make a living.
  • Reply 63 of 172
    Okay, I don't get it.



    What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers? When I choose a computer or other product, having lots of accessories available from many sources makes me more willing to choose that brand and model than one where there's hardly any accessories available.



    Imagine if Apple started suing the makers of iPod/iPhone cases? They'd hurt their image even more.



    If a company is selling lots of portable battery packs for Macbooks, it means people are buying and using Macbooks. This is a good thing, and Apple doesn't even sell a product in this space!



    Also, Hypermac seems to be using genuine Apple-made magsafe plugs, not manufacturing their own. They're not even violating patents.



    And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.



    They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.
  • Reply 64 of 172
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    while i see no point in being here and always being anti-apple, being negative or anti-apple does not mean every gets to just do personal attacks cuz they don't like an opinion.



    And just because people don't agree with you it doesn't mean they are automatically personally attacking you



    And even if they do, who cares? Rather than worrying about getting people banned (they just come back anyway) it's far more effective to just ignore them. Were all a little narcissistic for posting here in the first place Silence is the best troll repellant by far.
  • Reply 65 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    You must be new. If they were real experiences, or if the people Sol was responding to weren't obvious trolls I doubt you would have seen that kind of response from him.







    1) he wasn't complaining about the MagSafe - that might actually make sense.



    2) even if he was, it makes no sense to be looking for an AA to MagSafe for laptops. I think it's pretty obvious why no one would make an AA to MagSafe



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    His comment had nothing to do with MagSafe, which I hate not being licesnsed, but with him blaming Apple for his inability to find a battery charger with a 30-pin Dock Connector connected or standard USB connector that could use the iPhone's native cable, with or without a simple adapter.



    PS: how long has Apple used the USB-capable 30-pin Dock Connector and how many devices does that cover?



    After rereading, yes, I was wrong about the magsafe bit. Conceded. I guess I need to learn to read a bit better (as we all do, at times, no?) And it does look like Newtron is either trolling or just one of those guys who likes to complain. I haven't been visiting the forums that much recently, so I haven't any basis for knowing which it is likely to be. That being said.....



    Neither of those possibilities points to an insulting, aggressive reply as the proper response. If it's a troll, best way to deal with it is to note that it is a troll, and why, and calmly leave it at that. Otherwise, we're feeding the trolls.



    If it is a case of the guy just enjoying complaining about stuff, then simply say, "YEP, sucks to be you" and leave it at that. There's no call for starting a flamefest without proper provocation (and yes, what actually constitutes a proper provocation is eligible for its own debate). So I stand firm, bad form.



    And Doc, I really wouldn't have said anything had it been some schmo with 300 posts who lit into the guy. The fact that a grizzled ancient like Solipsism was the one who did it is what I find worrying. So in that respect, perhaps I'm being unfair to Sol, but on the other hand, the old ones are the ones who set the tone for the forums as a whole, and the individuals whose lead gets followed by the youngins. So it's important to maintain a high standard.



    C
  • Reply 66 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    ... Were all a little narcissistic for posting here in the first place Silence is the best troll repellant by far.



    too true.



    C
  • Reply 67 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bjojade View Post


    There are 2 separate issues at hand.



    1. The iPod dock issue. Yes, if they used the dock connector without Apple's license, their products should be pulled. There ARE plenty of devices out there that can provide battery charge for an iPod or iPhone. If you don't want to pay Apple, just make a device that provides USB power to charge it. Then you can use the standard USB cable. No big deal.



    2. The mag safe connector issue is different. They acquire Apple manufactured MagSafe connectors and wire them to another charging station. How can Apple control this? That seems wrong. They aren't making the connector, they are simply modifying it. A manufacturer of a product can't decide how it's being used once it's been sold. That would be like a hard drive manufacturer saying someone can't buy their external drive and extract the drive and put it in their own case. There is no warranty once you modify the device, and it's usually not cost effective, but if you want to do that, go right ahead.



    But then you are also re-selling the adapter, which probably violates something else. Argument has merit but probably no leg to stand on.
  • Reply 68 of 172
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers?



    Protecting their patents.



    Also protecting their brand. How many times do people buy knock offs that malfunction and then try to sue the manufacturer of the real article?



    Unfortunately we are all paying for the actions of selfish jerks.



    Quote:

    Also, Hypermac seems to be using genuine Apple-made magsafe plugs, not manufacturing their own. They're not even violating patents.



    They are co-opting an apple part and incorporating into their own. It probably comes down to how they are representing their work. Apple has smart attorneys - if they didn't think they had the slightest case they wouldn't be going after everything they are asking for!



    Quote:

    And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.



    They did invent the way it's used in conjunction with their products. And they openly license it for a reasonable fee. There is no argument about the iPod dock connector.



    MagSafe, on the other hand... If they don't license it, then I do have a problem with Apple suing them over their MagSafe products. I'm not saying they don't have a right to, I'm just saying it sucks if true.



    Quote:

    They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.



    Shooting themselves in the foot with whom? Trolls that hate them anyway and post on message boards?



    Certainly not their core audience of consumers. Heck the vast majority of people don't even pay attention to general news, let alone "inside baseball" topics like this lawsuit.
  • Reply 69 of 172
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,832moderator
    Quote:

    Defendants' infringing conduct has damaged Apple and inflicted irreparable harm for which Apple seeks, among other remedies, an award of its actual damages, disgorgement of Defendants' profits from the sale of infringing devices and injunctive relief.



    I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.



    If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.
  • Reply 70 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    Thank you.



    And BTW, I was looking in a suburb of one of the top-10 biggest cities in the US. The suburb alone has a population of over 100k. I went to both a Radio Shack and a well-stocked specialty electronics store, as well as lesser, but more local possibilities, like Walgreens.



    Nothing.



    That's too bad. You should ditch your iPhone.
  • Reply 71 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.



    If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.



    Great, and we hope that Hackintosh and Johnny Blewtrons go ahead and buy the competitors products.



    In other news, there are plenty of people who license the use of these connectors and you can buy products from them.
  • Reply 72 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    It's really too bad that Apple refuses to allow their proprietary connector to have much of an ecosystem.



    It sounds to me like these products are in a woefully underserved category. I tried and tried to find an external disposable battery charger in a local store and went empty-handed into the electricity-free camping zone. No plugging my iPhone into AA power. No nothing until I got back with a dead phone and saw some obscure stuff on the 'web.



    Apple's lockdowns and their proprietary ways both just plain suck.



    No it's not too bad.
  • Reply 73 of 172
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,006member
    This topic (ranting) has made me look at alternatives. I came across a really interesting hobby-site about building your own AA iPhone/iPod charger that will fit in an Altoids tin can. Very cool and leave room for boosting the power if need be. I suggest reading all the sub-articles. Makes for a very interesting read.



    http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/index.html
  • Reply 74 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.



    If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.



    Not at all -- by regulating sellers of charging accessories they're avoiding Cranky Joe's House of Car Battery Adapterz selling some screwy adapter that trashes your iPhone/iPod/iPad by charging it with unregulated voltage through a half-assed adapter. Since Cranky Joe is very unlikely to care about your toasted device, guess who probably gets saddled with your unwarranted warranty repair request? Apple has every right to regulate accessories to their devices, because it absolutely affects their bottom line.
  • Reply 75 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    Okay, I don't get it.



    What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers? When I choose a computer or other product, having lots of accessories available from many sources makes me more willing to choose that brand and model than one where there's hardly any accessories available.



    .....



    And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.



    They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.





    There are alot of accessory makers who pay the licensing fee for the dock connector to make their products. Why should one accessory maker get away without paying and have an advantage? Is that fair to the other accessory makers. It's Apple's duty to make sure everyone fairly pays the licensing fee.
  • Reply 76 of 172
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    there are a number of licensed products out there - so is the issue that this company is using and or reselling and or making Apple patented products/components without the proper license?



    as for extra juice for you iDevice when traveling in addition to those already listed any google search for items such as iphone battery case or iphone battery - will get lots of results, such as:



    http://www.mophie.com/SearchResults....FYVk7AodBhF6Dw



    With many of them available at Best Buy (over 1100 stores nationwide).



    as for magsafe - there are items such as this:

    http://www.buy.com/prod/new-60w-ac-p...211960033.html



    the real trouble is not finding such products - but finding high quality products as reasonable prices.



    on the HyperMac website - the product itself does not appear to have a dock connector or magsafe connector - but they do show a cable with magsafe connector and a cable with dock connector so maybe that is the problem area - perhaps the folsk at hypermac thought since they did not design their own cable from scratch - or manufacture the magsafe connector themselves that they did not need to license the patents (or how ever you say that).
  • Reply 77 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post


    blah blah blah...

    C



    Aaaaaaaaaand after going back though Newtron's entire post history, I think I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote for "Marketing Contractor hired by Microsoft to disparage Apple in Online Forums". Still, the best response, I think, to this is to just quickly make note that he's a troll/plant, and move on. Taking the wind out of his sails (pun intended) is more effective than getting mad at him. And I'd rather have him here, where he's unlikely to do any damage, than running amok elsewhere. Besides, when he spends his time here, he accomplishes nothing, but can still bill Microsoft for the time he spent doing it.



    C
  • Reply 78 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    as for magsafe - there are items such as this:

    http://www.buy.com/prod/new-60w-ac-p...211960033.html

    .



    Now I'm gonna guess that THAT thing is almost certainly a patent infringement.



    C
  • Reply 79 of 172
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    I despise these immoral lawsuits.



    It should be legal for HyperMac, without paying licensing fees, to manufacture a product that can plug into an accessory port on an Apple product.



    Allowing companies to make incompatible ports, and then to charge licensing fees to sell something that fits into those ports? That is not what I'd call fair or beneficial to our society or economy.



    Remember, all laws are enforced at the end of a gun, by violence. I don't consider it moral to point a gun at somebody because they made something that can plug into an accessory port.



    Idea ownership ("intellectual property") has gotten way out of hand.
  • Reply 80 of 172
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    I count 8 trolls in 57 posts, with multiple posts per troll in most cases. Maybe HyperMac called up Rent-A-Troll.



    I just checked. rentatroll.com is available. Nice business opportunity for Teck. He can be the instructor for training the recruits.
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