That's great, but they are still using overseas jobs that could easily be done in the USA...get with it Apple...why not design and build your products in our country. Oh, that's right, because then you'd have to pay them decent wages and benefits. Which would mean the cost of Apple products would probably double. And, of course, no local government is going to deal with suicides on the job like they do in China.
I totally agree with you here, I was expecting it to come on this device, but sadly it's watered down. However, I've been saying this for years now, but I think there are several reasons why they didn't do this.
1. UI: creating a user interface for the TV (IMO) is something Apple has probably been working with since the first gen ATV, but I don't think they have found a good solution to this. Many people have said maybe the Magic Trackpad (which I think has potential), others have said the Apple Remote App on the iPhone/Touch. Problem is, not everyone has the iPhone/Touch and that would be a pretty costly "accessory" to the ATV. I've also head an iPod Touch-Like remote with a screen/keyboard and touch interface, but at a $99 price-point (which at this point I think was a necessary move for Apple if they wanted to be competitive) I just don't see that kind of technology being included in the cost. Plus, a touch interface remote like this kind of defeats the purpose of the ATV then. You'd be constantly looking down at your remote and not the TV. So I'm sure they are working on it, they just haven't found an adequate solution that also works within the current Apple Ecosystem.
2. If they add the iOS, that would naturally lead you to an Internet Browser, which I don't think Apple wants on this device...yet. Buy adding a browser, you're opening the door to all sorts of free content over the web (i.e. Hulu, Pandora, not to mention all the TV Networks that allow free streaming over the web with commercials). This would seriously eat into Apple profit margins on iTunes downloads. I think they may be holding on this aspect because they are trying very hard to work out deals with the major networks for iTunes streaming. If they can't work out the 99cent downloads, they may have to result to Apps created by major networks (i.e. the ABCtv App that's currently available). This is a stretch, but I think that adding iOS to ATV might also eat into the current markets of the iPod Touch/iPad as well. If you could do everything those devices do on your TV, you might not need that iPad/Touch for home use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie
I still don't get why they did;nt use the iOS and make a killing on more apps sold and distributed. Get everyone hooked just like the iphone....Then just have an iTV app on the front.
I'm glad you think that, but then why hasn't the HTPC market exploded yet? Oh, that's right, because they cost about 3-6 times that of the new ATV. Plus, unless your'e a serious techy, no grandma is going to buy a HTPC. ATV is so much more accessible to the average user. And could you please clarify what "houses" means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135
too bad windows media center houses apple tv in every category.
Except that Apple was kind of working with an existing technology that already existing with the ATV. Look at the Roku boxes and all the different variations of the Digital Media Players since and before ATV came out. Not to mention all the Blu-Ray players that now can stream content from your computer and use Netflix and YouTube, etc... Now everyone has one and with more features than the ATV currently has. And now the Google TV revolution as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
Except for connecting to the iTunes universe. And seamlessly offering all the media on my computer (Windows or Mac). Don't get me wrong, if I didn't have a Tivo already, I would pick Media Center. Then again, with Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, etc. my DVR days are (thankfully) coming to an end. I never wanted a DVR - I wanted my shows available to watch when I wanted to watch them, and without ads. That's almost a reality. Poor MS - finally perfecting a tech as it (once again) is obsoleted. They keep getting "Zuned". They still haven't learned to "skate where the puck will be". It must be frustrating to be an Apple competitor - just as you think you have a handle on a market, they go off and re-define it!
I have heard nothing of anyone claiming victory on anything. I'd like to see a source for this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
Or in MS and Google's case you can win one and then leverage the cash cow to subsidize unprofitable ventures and claim "victory" via marketshare gained by no profit bundling, two for one specials or creative accounting (*cough*"xboxprofit"*cough*)
Have you heard of Android? Just sayin'. They may not have the market share of the iPhone but they are very rapidly catching up, so your point is mute here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
At least for a little while, anyway. Eventually even cash cows move on to different pastures. Google really pissed in their mess kit by screwing with Apple on the iPhone. Google's next biggest growth market for advertising was portable devices, and now as they look forward instead of seeing new and open territory, Apple is standing there staring right back at them. I have no doubt Apple will do in mobile advertising what they have done everywhere else - forgo raw market share for the majority of the profit, leaving the dregs for everyone to scrap over. So much for Google's over-inflated stock. A few quarters of flat or reversing growth will start a negative chain reaction.
If they do, it will be no different than TV with Ads like it currently is. No different. That's no advantage for Apple. That will only make people think twice about replacing their cable with ATV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
And what if Apple decides to leverage iAd beyond the mobile market? It won't happen right away, but if they do....
2) no one else has anything but vapor either. Actually, Apple is shipping solutions today. They may not be perfect, but they are shpping. That's better than the majority of their "competitors".
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree 100% with you.
I would just prefer to see Apple leverage all this stuff (that they already have) to be first into that market.
Are you saying it says it supports both 2.4 & 5Ghz variants of 802.11n?
Yes, it supports both. I have both 802.11a and 802.11g on my network, and they have two different SSIDs. The new Apple TV gave me an option to connect to either one.
Remember it's only 720p, not 1080p. So for those with a large 1080p TV/screen, the picture won't look as clean. But most people with smaller TVs/screens probably won't notice.
They didn't even have them out yet, the guy had to go into the back to get one. They literally just got the shipment an hour earlier. Even weirder, they still had four of the old Apple TVs on the shelf.
The box is ridiculously small, even knowing how small it was going to be, I was surprised at the size of the box. Without opening it, he compared one of the new aluminum remotes (like the one inside) to the box itself. Typically, I don't think they could make the packaging any smaller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike
Remember it's only 720p, not 1080p. So for those with a large 1080p TV/screen, the picture won't look as clean. But most people with smaller TVs/screens probably won't notice.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
They didn't even have them out yet, the guy had to go into the back to get one. They literally just got the shipment an hour earlier. Even weirder, they still had four of the old Apple TVs on the shelf.
The box is ridiculously small, even knowing how small it was going to be, I was surprised at the size of the box. Without opening it, he compared one of the new aluminum remotes (like the one inside) to the box itself. Typically, I don't think they could make the packaging any smaller.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
Weird - almost same exact story here in Denver. I called a store last night and they said they would get "some" but didn't know how many. I called a store today before I bothered and they had them but would not confirm the quantity. I got there, no ATVs on the shelf except for 4 of the old 160GB versions. They had to bring one in from the stock room. So this is a very silent store launch...
There is an optical Audio Out jack on the back...see photos from post. Thankfully, my new Denon Reciever has two of these on it. Otherwise i'd be pretty pissed about this change to the ATV, since my Blu-Ray uses optical audio. Now I'm not sure of this, but I though the newer HDMI jacks support Audio as well as video??? Anyone tried this?
Doesn't your new Denon Receiver have HDMI inputs on it? The majority of devices with HDMI ports on them should transfer audio over them as well, nothing to do with new one jacks. I connect my old ATV, PS3 and DVD player to my received with only HDMI cables.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
Who died and made you in charge of how close people sit to their TV, I can sit as close as I want.
how much flash storage memory and on-board RAM does it have? that will determine how much can be done via jailbreak. has anyone opened it up and looked yet?
UI: creating a user interface for the TV (IMO) is something Apple has probably been working with since the first gen ATV, but I don't think they have found a good solution to this. Many people have said maybe the Magic Trackpad (which I think has potential), others have said the Apple Remote App on the iPhone/Touch. Problem is, not everyone has the iPhone/Touch and that would be a pretty costly "accessory" to the ATV. I've also head an iPod Touch-Like remote with a screen/keyboard and touch interface, but at a $99 price-point (which at this point I think was a necessary move for Apple if they wanted to be competitive) I just don't see that kind of technology being included in the cost. Plus, a touch interface remote like this kind of defeats the purpose of the ATV then. You'd be constantly looking down at your remote and not the TV. So I'm sure they are working on it, they just haven't found an adequate solution that also works within the current Apple Ecosystem.
I don't think Apple would be worried if they restricted their potential customers to everyone with an iPhone/Touch/iPad - and it would make for a very interesting remote (touch screen, accelerometer, gyroscope, interaction with apps). In fact, they could have marketed the aTV as a peripheral for the iPhone pretty safely. And sold a bundled aTV+iPodTouch.
Already they've opened their gates to some app possibilities - app makers have relative freedom to write an app which is entirely run from the iPhone and passes its video to the aTV. We may be surprised by the number of developers who create apps for the iPhone to control video on the aTV. That paves the way for future hybrid apps that are launched from the iPhone but also run partially on the aTV.
Well, now I certainly never called it a benefit. I have felt your pain. But in the grand scheme of things, waiting 20 minutes for something you will be keeping is not that big of deal. If you already have an Apple TV, then it sounds like this new one just isn't right for you.
And, by the way, having a laptop as your main machine is probably frought with much more serious challenges than the one you posed here. I imagine that you are SOL fairly often, when someone in the family takes that thing away, or closes the lid during a sync, etc, etc, etc.
Thompson
While waiting 20mins isn't the end of the world it's still a step down from the Gen-1 Apple TV. Especially when you bear in mind that in some parts of the world (e.g. where I live) it can take anything up to an hour to download a two hour movie in standard definition. At that rate I might as well go to the Video store, or drive to the movie theatre, or forgot the whole thing altogether and just not watch the movie . . .
It just seems like the Gen-2 Apple TV was released before the content was available. Not enough TV Shows are available for rent and the desire of the major studios to delay rental availability and to even pull the rental option off older movies on a arbitrary basis means you might as well just do all of your renting and purchasing on your computer. At least that way you know you'll be able to see all of the purchase and rental options. It's really frustrating how the Apple TV lets you select a movie only to find out that it isn't available for rent. You then have to get up from your couch, buy it on your computer, wait for it to download and then start watching it up to an hour later. It's just such an inconsistent user experience that it feels like the drive to lower the unit cost and size made them turn it into even more of a niche product than it was before.
I ordered an Apple TV when they were announced and it was delivered today. It was easy to hook up, and it's working well. I hooked the HDMI up to the wall-mounted flatscreen, and an optical cable goes from the flatscreen to my audio equipment.
doesn't hdmi include audio?? so i need two cables to my hd TV???
I'm just an average consumer who likes to watch movies and tv shows on my 50" HDTV. I have very little if any tech expertise, I can't tell you the difference between IOS and Snow Leopard. But as a consumer I can appreciate the utility and quality or lack thereof of a product after I use it. For example, I instantly realized that my iMac was better than any PC that I had ever owned, later that my iphone was an amazing device, and then that my iPad was indeed a magical product. Today, I received my tv and this evening I streamed via WiFi two movies; one from iTunes and one from Netflix. Streamed from my iMac a rented tv show and a home movie, listened to some songs, and looked at a few of my photos. My computer and Airport Extreme are in my bedroom with the HDTV being in the living room. The tv was easy to configure with my network and my iMac. Everything worked exceptionally well, and as with all Apple products everything worked well together. I was impressed with how fast and crisp images appeared on the large screen as well as the organization and ease of use of the interface.
A few years ago, I owned a Gateway computer and I remember Gateway promoting their Home Entertainment Center for about $7,000. It didn't work, tv at $99 works. I believe Apple has created the platform that is going to rule home entertainment. There will be IOS updates and apps that I can't imagine, but Steve Jobs can and he will implement them. For now I am just as thrilled with tv as I was with my first iMac, my first iPhone and my first iPad!
It's not what they can't do; it's what they can do.
Well I was busy last night but I found time to get it hooked up and connected to my trial Netflix account. Just for that functionality, I'm already sold. I watched the "Stones in Exile" movie and part of "Shine a Light" and the picture and sound quality were great. If you've signed up with Netflix, it's definitely worth checking out what you can stream for "free" before you pay to rent from iTunes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER
doesn't hdmi include audio?? so i need two cables to my hd TV???
HDMI does include audio. This is about listening to music from the iTunes library on your computer.
Depending on your setup, if you want to only get audio out of the device into more "traditional" audio equipment you might not have an analog audio output from your HDTV or an optical audio input to your audio receiver/amplifier/etc. (That's why people were linking to a box that will convert optical audio to analog audio signals.)
I, for one, am not too interested in having the flat panel TV turned on just to listen to music. YMMV.
Comments
Yes, but they are designed by Apple in California
1. UI: creating a user interface for the TV (IMO) is something Apple has probably been working with since the first gen ATV, but I don't think they have found a good solution to this. Many people have said maybe the Magic Trackpad (which I think has potential), others have said the Apple Remote App on the iPhone/Touch. Problem is, not everyone has the iPhone/Touch and that would be a pretty costly "accessory" to the ATV. I've also head an iPod Touch-Like remote with a screen/keyboard and touch interface, but at a $99 price-point (which at this point I think was a necessary move for Apple if they wanted to be competitive) I just don't see that kind of technology being included in the cost. Plus, a touch interface remote like this kind of defeats the purpose of the ATV then. You'd be constantly looking down at your remote and not the TV. So I'm sure they are working on it, they just haven't found an adequate solution that also works within the current Apple Ecosystem.
2. If they add the iOS, that would naturally lead you to an Internet Browser, which I don't think Apple wants on this device...yet. Buy adding a browser, you're opening the door to all sorts of free content over the web (i.e. Hulu, Pandora, not to mention all the TV Networks that allow free streaming over the web with commercials). This would seriously eat into Apple profit margins on iTunes downloads. I think they may be holding on this aspect because they are trying very hard to work out deals with the major networks for iTunes streaming. If they can't work out the 99cent downloads, they may have to result to Apps created by major networks (i.e. the ABCtv App that's currently available). This is a stretch, but I think that adding iOS to ATV might also eat into the current markets of the iPod Touch/iPad as well. If you could do everything those devices do on your TV, you might not need that iPad/Touch for home use.
I still don't get why they did;nt use the iOS and make a killing on more apps sold and distributed. Get everyone hooked just like the iphone....Then just have an iTV app on the front.
too bad windows media center houses apple tv in every category.
can't win them all, steve-o.
Except for connecting to the iTunes universe. And seamlessly offering all the media on my computer (Windows or Mac). Don't get me wrong, if I didn't have a Tivo already, I would pick Media Center. Then again, with Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, etc. my DVR days are (thankfully) coming to an end. I never wanted a DVR - I wanted my shows available to watch when I wanted to watch them, and without ads. That's almost a reality. Poor MS - finally perfecting a tech as it (once again) is obsoleted. They keep getting "Zuned". They still haven't learned to "skate where the puck will be". It must be frustrating to be an Apple competitor - just as you think you have a handle on a market, they go off and re-define it!
I have heard nothing of anyone claiming victory on anything. I'd like to see a source for this...
Or in MS and Google's case you can win one and then leverage the cash cow to subsidize unprofitable ventures and claim "victory" via marketshare gained by no profit bundling, two for one specials or creative accounting (*cough*"xboxprofit"*cough*)
Have you heard of Android? Just sayin'. They may not have the market share of the iPhone but they are very rapidly catching up, so your point is mute here.
At least for a little while, anyway. Eventually even cash cows move on to different pastures. Google really pissed in their mess kit by screwing with Apple on the iPhone. Google's next biggest growth market for advertising was portable devices, and now as they look forward instead of seeing new and open territory, Apple is standing there staring right back at them. I have no doubt Apple will do in mobile advertising what they have done everywhere else - forgo raw market share for the majority of the profit, leaving the dregs for everyone to scrap over. So much for Google's over-inflated stock. A few quarters of flat or reversing growth will start a negative chain reaction.
If they do, it will be no different than TV with Ads like it currently is. No different. That's no advantage for Apple. That will only make people think twice about replacing their cable with ATV.
And what if Apple decides to leverage iAd beyond the mobile market? It won't happen right away, but if they do....
1) Rome wasn't built in a day
2) no one else has anything but vapor either. Actually, Apple is shipping solutions today. They may not be perfect, but they are shpping. That's better than the majority of their "competitors".
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree 100% with you.
I would just prefer to see Apple leverage all this stuff (that they already have) to be first into that market.
I'm sorry, all I see is that it does 802.11n.
Are you saying it says it supports both 2.4 & 5Ghz variants of 802.11n?
Yes, it supports both. I have both 802.11a and 802.11g on my network, and they have two different SSIDs. The new Apple TV gave me an option to connect to either one.
They didn't even have them out yet, the guy had to go into the back to get one. They literally just got the shipment an hour earlier. Even weirder, they still had four of the old Apple TVs on the shelf.
The box is ridiculously small, even knowing how small it was going to be, I was surprised at the size of the box. Without opening it, he compared one of the new aluminum remotes (like the one inside) to the box itself. Typically, I don't think they could make the packaging any smaller.
Remember it's only 720p, not 1080p. So for those with a large 1080p TV/screen, the picture won't look as clean. But most people with smaller TVs/screens probably won't notice.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
I just picked one up at my local Apple store.
They didn't even have them out yet, the guy had to go into the back to get one. They literally just got the shipment an hour earlier. Even weirder, they still had four of the old Apple TVs on the shelf.
The box is ridiculously small, even knowing how small it was going to be, I was surprised at the size of the box. Without opening it, he compared one of the new aluminum remotes (like the one inside) to the box itself. Typically, I don't think they could make the packaging any smaller.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
Weird - almost same exact story here in Denver. I called a store last night and they said they would get "some" but didn't know how many. I called a store today before I bothered and they had them but would not confirm the quantity. I got there, no ATVs on the shelf except for 4 of the old 160GB versions. They had to bring one in from the stock room. So this is a very silent store launch...
There is an optical Audio Out jack on the back...see photos from post. Thankfully, my new Denon Reciever has two of these on it. Otherwise i'd be pretty pissed about this change to the ATV, since my Blu-Ray uses optical audio. Now I'm not sure of this, but I though the newer HDMI jacks support Audio as well as video??? Anyone tried this?
Doesn't your new Denon Receiver have HDMI inputs on it? The majority of devices with HDMI ports on them should transfer audio over them as well, nothing to do with new one jacks. I connect my old ATV, PS3 and DVD player to my received with only HDMI cables.
The differences between 720p vs. 1080p is oversold. Even people with larger screens will likely be hardpressed to notice unless they sit way too close to the screen. Far more important is the amount of compression used to get the sizes of the files and streams to be nice and small.
Who died and made you in charge of how close people sit to their TV, I can sit as close as I want.
how much flash storage memory and on-board RAM does it have? that will determine how much can be done via jailbreak. has anyone opened it up and looked yet?
8GB flash/256 ram
UI: creating a user interface for the TV (IMO) is something Apple has probably been working with since the first gen ATV, but I don't think they have found a good solution to this. Many people have said maybe the Magic Trackpad (which I think has potential), others have said the Apple Remote App on the iPhone/Touch. Problem is, not everyone has the iPhone/Touch and that would be a pretty costly "accessory" to the ATV. I've also head an iPod Touch-Like remote with a screen/keyboard and touch interface, but at a $99 price-point (which at this point I think was a necessary move for Apple if they wanted to be competitive) I just don't see that kind of technology being included in the cost. Plus, a touch interface remote like this kind of defeats the purpose of the ATV then. You'd be constantly looking down at your remote and not the TV. So I'm sure they are working on it, they just haven't found an adequate solution that also works within the current Apple Ecosystem.
I don't think Apple would be worried if they restricted their potential customers to everyone with an iPhone/Touch/iPad - and it would make for a very interesting remote (touch screen, accelerometer, gyroscope, interaction with apps). In fact, they could have marketed the aTV as a peripheral for the iPhone pretty safely. And sold a bundled aTV+iPodTouch.
Already they've opened their gates to some app possibilities - app makers have relative freedom to write an app which is entirely run from the iPhone and passes its video to the aTV. We may be surprised by the number of developers who create apps for the iPhone to control video on the aTV. That paves the way for future hybrid apps that are launched from the iPhone but also run partially on the aTV.
Well, now I certainly never called it a benefit. I have felt your pain. But in the grand scheme of things, waiting 20 minutes for something you will be keeping is not that big of deal. If you already have an Apple TV, then it sounds like this new one just isn't right for you.
And, by the way, having a laptop as your main machine is probably frought with much more serious challenges than the one you posed here. I imagine that you are SOL fairly often, when someone in the family takes that thing away, or closes the lid during a sync, etc, etc, etc.
Thompson
While waiting 20mins isn't the end of the world it's still a step down from the Gen-1 Apple TV. Especially when you bear in mind that in some parts of the world (e.g. where I live) it can take anything up to an hour to download a two hour movie in standard definition. At that rate I might as well go to the Video store, or drive to the movie theatre, or forgot the whole thing altogether and just not watch the movie . . .
It just seems like the Gen-2 Apple TV was released before the content was available. Not enough TV Shows are available for rent and the desire of the major studios to delay rental availability and to even pull the rental option off older movies on a arbitrary basis means you might as well just do all of your renting and purchasing on your computer. At least that way you know you'll be able to see all of the purchase and rental options. It's really frustrating how the Apple TV lets you select a movie only to find out that it isn't available for rent. You then have to get up from your couch, buy it on your computer, wait for it to download and then start watching it up to an hour later. It's just such an inconsistent user experience that it feels like the drive to lower the unit cost and size made them turn it into even more of a niche product than it was before.
I ordered an Apple TV when they were announced and it was delivered today. It was easy to hook up, and it's working well. I hooked the HDMI up to the wall-mounted flatscreen, and an optical cable goes from the flatscreen to my audio equipment.
doesn't hdmi include audio?? so i need two cables to my hd TV???
A few years ago, I owned a Gateway computer and I remember Gateway promoting their Home Entertainment Center for about $7,000. It didn't work, tv at $99 works. I believe Apple has created the platform that is going to rule home entertainment. There will be IOS updates and apps that I can't imagine, but Steve Jobs can and he will implement them. For now I am just as thrilled with tv as I was with my first iMac, my first iPhone and my first iPad!
It's not what they can't do; it's what they can do.
doesn't hdmi include audio?? so i need two cables to my hd TV???
HDMI does include audio. This is about listening to music from the iTunes library on your computer.
Depending on your setup, if you want to only get audio out of the device into more "traditional" audio equipment you might not have an analog audio output from your HDTV or an optical audio input to your audio receiver/amplifier/etc. (That's why people were linking to a box that will convert optical audio to analog audio signals.)
I, for one, am not too interested in having the flat panel TV turned on just to listen to music. YMMV.
$50 difference aside, is there any reason to wait for the new version? The old Apple TV will support AirPlay, right?
The old Apple TV will support AirPlay, right?
Nope.