I will say it Again to all you dummys that dont get it. If it were not for att you would not have an iphone.They stepped up when verizon wouldnt and because of that iphone is the number one device in the world. stop hating on the victor !! Shame on verizon for passing on the iphone = more dummies!
Okay fine. Maybe ATT was a good fit for Apple in the beginning. But it's over three years later. Time to kiss and make up with Verizon. And T Mobile. And the rest...
I never will understand Apple's partnership with AT&T. There such a crap company. As Jason Snell of MacWorld put it, they are a cancer on Apple's good name.
I'm sorry Blackintosh, without ATT, there would be no iPhone. You do remember that the iPhone was originally pitched to Verizon, who shot them down... It was only Cingular (and a month or so later, ATT) that agreed to the terms Jobs asked for (including unlimited data).
Additionally, while the ATT networks have had problems, at least originally, with the earlier iOS'es, the iPhone was also at fault.
Finally, no one in the industry expect the iPhone to be as successful as it was. Due to its unbelievable success (and spawning of knockoffs) its really hard to remember how unrealistic the iPhone seemed when it came out.
Apple has become No.1 because they surprised the market with new WOW products which arguably, have no competition. After Android, it will be hard for Apple to maintain that spot, because they're locked down with one carrier and Android is, like MS can be installed on any hardware. The advantage Android has is that the marketing will be done by Google and any other company that utlizes Android. While Apple has to take on the burden of marketing all on its own.
Verizon has simply adopted Android as a competing product to the iPhone. And if you go to a Verizon store they'll convince you that the Android is better than the iPhone. Already several friends of mine chose Android over their iPhone. If Apple does not get Verizon on their side, Apple will continue to struggle in being No.1
Looks like you have an open mind. So let me mention a few things. You can ponder them at your leisure
1. Both Apple and Att are currently selling every single iphone 4 they can make, so for now it does not matter if the iphone was on all networks or just one. They just isn't more phones to supply!
2. Every quarter, Apple reports how many iphones they sold, how much $ they earned from selling the phones and the growth. Compare that with Google. They never say how much $ they are earning from Android or how many Android devices were sold. I listened in on a Google conference call where they talked about the #activations per day. An analyst asked the Google CEO if he would translate # activations to number of devices and the CEO would not commit to it. So basically we don't really know how much money Google is making or how many phones are being sold.
3. Some of the Android phone companies do declare (because they are public companies) how many phones they have sold. Based on that, last quarter Apple sold more than 2x as many phones as Motorola and HTC Android phones combined! Now, while Apple breaks down their sales by US and International, Motorola and HTC do not.
4. All of the data on Android sales are estimates based on surveys and Google's (admitted imprecise) estimate of 200K activations per day as meaning 200K phones being sold a day. However, one cannot arrive at 200K phones per day if you add Motorola + HTC + Samsung's own reported numbers...so unless LG is selling a ton of Android phones we don't know about! So, while we know exactly how many iphones are sold, because Apple releases that number, ALL Android sales numbers are pure estimates since there is not definitive total.
5. iphones are almost never offered as a buy one get one free deal. Android phones can be had for buy one get one and many are offered for close to free in the US. This bumps up sales numbers, but brings down margins and revenue.
6. In terms of profits. Last quarter Att and Apple reported record profits. Verizon had a loss (mobile devision has a much lower margin than Att), Motorola mobile division also had an operating loss and HTC had a small $200M profit. So from a business perspective iphone is totally killing Android.
7. Apple had iphone growth of around 100% last quarter. That was much higher than any single Android vendor. In most cases no one even came to within 1/2 of Apple's growth. At least none that I know of.
I could go on and on. But you'll see there are a lot of reason why Apple's market value is sky rocketing. But if you understand the way Apple is running their business you'll realize that they have a plan that is working.
Think of it this way. The day Android came out, Google was worth more as a company than Apple - this is after Apple had the iphone in the market for more than a year. Today, after Android came out and Apple took a more competitive position with Google, Apple has shot past Google - to the tune of $90B. That is a huge gap. $90 is almost the total value of HP! So, Apple is ahead of Google by the entire value of HP!
Now you would say. That just proves Apple stock is over valued! Right? Guess what. Even with that market value, Apple has a lower PE than Google! So all things equal since Apple has faster growth than Google and lower PE...the gap should be even higher!
May be you didn't get all of this. May be you did. But like I said, you can ponder these facts.
You can remove any app that you download and install, even an app from Apple. The apps that come with the iPhone are built-in, basic functionality apps and are installed with the OS every time the system is upgraded.
I'm sure in time, we will be able to remove them, probably when Apple makes them individually available on the AppStore.
Well, those "delusions" of Godhood/grandeur has made him the most admired CEO in the world, who has taken one company that people were saying should be liquidated, and made it one of the largest in the world.
Have you ever thought that, maybe, just maybe, this guy knows what the f*** he is doing? And you, random internet commenter, who thinks he knows better than that guy, might be the one with the actual delusions?
Hey, no blasphemy!
I LOVE your argument, that because Apple is a large company they must be right. It takes me back to the old PC vs Mac discussions we used to have here. Every time some fanboy puffed out his chest and sang the praises of Apple, some PC fan would chime in with the old market share argument. If Microsoft was a bigger company then anything they did must be right.
So, Apple is big enough that we can use that argument here in the Verizon vs ATT debate? My, how times have changed.
As far as being delusional, you might be right. I have spent the last several hours arguing with you fine people here when I could be doing something meaningful. Perhaps I do need medical attention. Yes, very possible.
A controlled user experience. Otherwise known as a walled garden.
There's nothing wrong with a walled garden. Kept clean and all the riff-raff is kept out. If you don't like it, you can always go play at the public park.
Obviously you have issues with a walled garden, I'd suggest you make your self less miserable and find somewhere else to play.
I see. So it's okay for Lord Jobs to partner with someone on their hobby but not on a "headliner product?" Wouldn't a headliner product make more money for the company than a "hobby?"
You don't get it. Netflix will be available on any Apple TV. Verizon's V-Cast would only be on certain iPhones tied to that network.
Apple doesn't want to fall into the balkanized BS of every other phone maker with their iPhone: they want one experience that they, not the carrier, define.
Apple should not cave. iPhone on Verizon is just a mythical unicorn thing that will never be as "perfect" vs. AT&T as people try to claim.
You can remove any app that you download and install, even an app from Apple. The apps that come with the iPhone are built-in, basic functionality apps and are installed with the OS every time the system is upgraded.
I'm sure in time, we will be able to remove them, probably when Apple makes them individually available on the AppStore.
That?s a good point. All apps that come on the iPhone are part of iOS for that device.
Some might say Nike+ but that isn?t removable, it part of the OS and built by Apple. The only difference is that it doesn?t show up on your Home Screens until you go to activate it in settings.
While I?d like an option in settings to disable and enable apps from showing up on the Home Screen, I don?t think I?d like vCast or anyone else?s apps to be part of the iOS builds.
Finally, no one in the industry expect the iPhone to be as successful as it was. Due to its unbelievable success (and spawning of knockoffs) its really hard to remember how unrealistic the iPhone seemed when it came out.
Really? I remember watching the Keynote and being blown away. I immediately realized how useful this thing could be. It was very cool.
If Vzw doesn't budge on V-Cast/content stranglehold this would throw some water on their supposedly more open stance towards devices/apps on "the network."
So let Verizon sell their V Cast stuff on the iPhone. What's the big deal? Apple bent and put Netflix on the Apple TV.
VCast directly competes with the itunes store, that's why.
Netflix, given that it is streaming only, doesn't compete. It compliments and allows Apple to give people something they want (flat rate subscription to streamed content) without having to create the tech and negotiate the contracts.
There's nothing wrong with a walled garden. Kept clean and all the riff-raff is kept out. If you don't like it, you can always go play at the public park.
Obviously you have issues with a walled garden, I'd suggest you make your self less miserable and find somewhere else to play.
I could go play elsewhere. OR!!! Apple could change to suit ME!
You don't get it. Netflix will be available on any Apple TV. Verizon's V-Cast would only be on certain iPhones tied to that network.
Apple doesn't want to fall into the balkanized BS of every other phone maker with their iPhone: they want one experience that they, not the carrier, define.
Apple should not cave. iPhone on Verizon is just a mythical unicorn thing that will never be as "perfect" vs. AT&T as people try to claim.
It's not about being perfect. It's about the fact that no carrier is everywhere. If you don't have coverage you can't buy the product and that results in lost revenue and that is bad business.
You know, most people go to college for years to learn the secret of good business and you people get it from me for free. What a deal.
I could go play elsewhere. OR!!! Apple could change to suit ME!
Yeah, Apple is going to change to suit you. That's not how it works. As consumers we choose and use the products that work for us, not the other way around. It's called a free market. A company is free to provide a product that they believe works. If you don't like a product for lack of features you're free to make your own or find one that does.
Really? I remember watching the Keynote and being blown away. I immediately realized how useful this thing could be. It was very cool.
I am not saying people weren't blown away.
I am saying that before the iPhone, an all touchscreen device like the iPhone was still pretty much part of science fantasy.
However, what was most shocking was Apple went to Cingular, and essentially told them they were going to create the iPhone, but Cingular would not be updated with what it was, how it looked, etc. As admitted by the Cingular CEO, they found out about the iPhone only a few weeks before the Keynote.
I bet if we did a study we?d find that people most offended by walled gardens when it coms to software are more likely to spend most of their time in a wall basement avoiding the world at large.
Maybe it?s gardens he dislikes. If we call it a "walled parent?s basement? perhaps he?ll be more inclined to open his mind.
I do not live with my parents. I'm a grownup!
My parents passed away long ago without ever knowing the internet or the Mac experience. I think they would have liked it.
I LOVE your argument, that because Apple is a large company they must be right. It takes me back to the old PC vs Mac discussions we used to have here. Every time some fanboy puffed out his chest and sang the praises of Apple, some PC fan would chime in with the old market share argument. If Microsoft was a bigger company then anything they did must be right.
So, Apple is big enough that we can use that argument here in the Verizon vs ATT debate? My, how times have changed.
As far as being delusional, you might be right. I have spent the last several hours arguing with you fine people here when I could be doing something meaningful. Perhaps I do need medical attention. Yes, very possible.
Hey, nice strawman there....Where did I say that Apple (or Steve Jobs) is always right because they are large or successful?
I said that your statement of them having "Delusions of Godhood" which you changed to "Delusions of Grandeur" were simply delusions, because:
a) They obviously DONT have problems partnering with people, unless you think its possible to build a $50Bn company without having good partnerships.
b You provide no evidence whatsoever for your claim
Comments
I will say it Again to all you dummys that dont get it. If it were not for att you would not have an iphone.They stepped up when verizon wouldnt and because of that iphone is the number one device in the world. stop hating on the victor !! Shame on verizon for passing on the iphone = more dummies!
Okay fine. Maybe ATT was a good fit for Apple in the beginning. But it's over three years later. Time to kiss and make up with Verizon. And T Mobile. And the rest...
Little Rant:
I never will understand Apple's partnership with AT&T. There such a crap company. As Jason Snell of MacWorld put it, they are a cancer on Apple's good name.
I'm sorry Blackintosh, without ATT, there would be no iPhone. You do remember that the iPhone was originally pitched to Verizon, who shot them down... It was only Cingular (and a month or so later, ATT) that agreed to the terms Jobs asked for (including unlimited data).
Additionally, while the ATT networks have had problems, at least originally, with the earlier iOS'es, the iPhone was also at fault.
Finally, no one in the industry expect the iPhone to be as successful as it was. Due to its unbelievable success (and spawning of knockoffs) its really hard to remember how unrealistic the iPhone seemed when it came out.
Apple has become No.1 because they surprised the market with new WOW products which arguably, have no competition. After Android, it will be hard for Apple to maintain that spot, because they're locked down with one carrier and Android is, like MS can be installed on any hardware. The advantage Android has is that the marketing will be done by Google and any other company that utlizes Android. While Apple has to take on the burden of marketing all on its own.
Verizon has simply adopted Android as a competing product to the iPhone. And if you go to a Verizon store they'll convince you that the Android is better than the iPhone. Already several friends of mine chose Android over their iPhone. If Apple does not get Verizon on their side, Apple will continue to struggle in being No.1
Looks like you have an open mind. So let me mention a few things. You can ponder them at your leisure
1. Both Apple and Att are currently selling every single iphone 4 they can make, so for now it does not matter if the iphone was on all networks or just one. They just isn't more phones to supply!
2. Every quarter, Apple reports how many iphones they sold, how much $ they earned from selling the phones and the growth. Compare that with Google. They never say how much $ they are earning from Android or how many Android devices were sold. I listened in on a Google conference call where they talked about the #activations per day. An analyst asked the Google CEO if he would translate # activations to number of devices and the CEO would not commit to it. So basically we don't really know how much money Google is making or how many phones are being sold.
3. Some of the Android phone companies do declare (because they are public companies) how many phones they have sold. Based on that, last quarter Apple sold more than 2x as many phones as Motorola and HTC Android phones combined! Now, while Apple breaks down their sales by US and International, Motorola and HTC do not.
4. All of the data on Android sales are estimates based on surveys and Google's (admitted imprecise) estimate of 200K activations per day as meaning 200K phones being sold a day. However, one cannot arrive at 200K phones per day if you add Motorola + HTC + Samsung's own reported numbers...so unless LG is selling a ton of Android phones we don't know about! So, while we know exactly how many iphones are sold, because Apple releases that number, ALL Android sales numbers are pure estimates since there is not definitive total.
5. iphones are almost never offered as a buy one get one free deal. Android phones can be had for buy one get one and many are offered for close to free in the US. This bumps up sales numbers, but brings down margins and revenue.
6. In terms of profits. Last quarter Att and Apple reported record profits. Verizon had a loss (mobile devision has a much lower margin than Att), Motorola mobile division also had an operating loss and HTC had a small $200M profit. So from a business perspective iphone is totally killing Android.
7. Apple had iphone growth of around 100% last quarter. That was much higher than any single Android vendor. In most cases no one even came to within 1/2 of Apple's growth. At least none that I know of.
I could go on and on. But you'll see there are a lot of reason why Apple's market value is sky rocketing. But if you understand the way Apple is running their business you'll realize that they have a plan that is working.
Think of it this way. The day Android came out, Google was worth more as a company than Apple - this is after Apple had the iphone in the market for more than a year. Today, after Android came out and Apple took a more competitive position with Google, Apple has shot past Google - to the tune of $90B. That is a huge gap. $90 is almost the total value of HP! So, Apple is ahead of Google by the entire value of HP!
Now you would say. That just proves Apple stock is over valued! Right? Guess what. Even with that market value, Apple has a lower PE than Google! So all things equal since Apple has faster growth than Google and lower PE...the gap should be even higher!
May be you didn't get all of this. May be you did. But like I said, you can ponder these facts.
why can't we still remove Apple apps???
You can remove any app that you download and install, even an app from Apple. The apps that come with the iPhone are built-in, basic functionality apps and are installed with the OS every time the system is upgraded.
I'm sure in time, we will be able to remove them, probably when Apple makes them individually available on the AppStore.
Looks like you have an open mind. So let me mention a few things. You can ponder them at your leisure
BTW, welcome to AI.
Well, those "delusions" of Godhood/grandeur has made him the most admired CEO in the world, who has taken one company that people were saying should be liquidated, and made it one of the largest in the world.
Have you ever thought that, maybe, just maybe, this guy knows what the f*** he is doing? And you, random internet commenter, who thinks he knows better than that guy, might be the one with the actual delusions?
Hey, no blasphemy!
I LOVE your argument, that because Apple is a large company they must be right. It takes me back to the old PC vs Mac discussions we used to have here. Every time some fanboy puffed out his chest and sang the praises of Apple, some PC fan would chime in with the old market share argument. If Microsoft was a bigger company then anything they did must be right.
So, Apple is big enough that we can use that argument here in the Verizon vs ATT debate? My, how times have changed.
As far as being delusional, you might be right. I have spent the last several hours arguing with you fine people here when I could be doing something meaningful. Perhaps I do need medical attention. Yes, very possible.
A controlled user experience. Otherwise known as a walled garden.
There's nothing wrong with a walled garden. Kept clean and all the riff-raff is kept out. If you don't like it, you can always go play at the public park.
Obviously you have issues with a walled garden, I'd suggest you make your self less miserable and find somewhere else to play.
I see. So it's okay for Lord Jobs to partner with someone on their hobby but not on a "headliner product?" Wouldn't a headliner product make more money for the company than a "hobby?"
You don't get it. Netflix will be available on any Apple TV. Verizon's V-Cast would only be on certain iPhones tied to that network.
Apple doesn't want to fall into the balkanized BS of every other phone maker with their iPhone: they want one experience that they, not the carrier, define.
Apple should not cave. iPhone on Verizon is just a mythical unicorn thing that will never be as "perfect" vs. AT&T as people try to claim.
You can remove any app that you download and install, even an app from Apple. The apps that come with the iPhone are built-in, basic functionality apps and are installed with the OS every time the system is upgraded.
I'm sure in time, we will be able to remove them, probably when Apple makes them individually available on the AppStore.
That?s a good point. All apps that come on the iPhone are part of iOS for that device.
Some might say Nike+ but that isn?t removable, it part of the OS and built by Apple. The only difference is that it doesn?t show up on your Home Screens until you go to activate it in settings.
While I?d like an option in settings to disable and enable apps from showing up on the Home Screen, I don?t think I?d like vCast or anyone else?s apps to be part of the iOS builds.
Finally, no one in the industry expect the iPhone to be as successful as it was. Due to its unbelievable success (and spawning of knockoffs) its really hard to remember how unrealistic the iPhone seemed when it came out.
Really? I remember watching the Keynote and being blown away. I immediately realized how useful this thing could be. It was very cool.
Verizon Wireless To Introduce ?Any Apps, Any Device? Option For Customers In 2008
So let Verizon sell their V Cast stuff on the iPhone. What's the big deal? Apple bent and put Netflix on the Apple TV.
VCast directly competes with the itunes store, that's why.
Netflix, given that it is streaming only, doesn't compete. It compliments and allows Apple to give people something they want (flat rate subscription to streamed content) without having to create the tech and negotiate the contracts.
There's nothing wrong with a walled garden. Kept clean and all the riff-raff is kept out. If you don't like it, you can always go play at the public park.
Obviously you have issues with a walled garden, I'd suggest you make your self less miserable and find somewhere else to play.
I could go play elsewhere. OR!!! Apple could change to suit ME!
Umm, their network is not everywhere. How are you going to rule the world like that?
Leave off the "umm" next time will you?
Umm, I didn't say it was everywhere, perhaps trying reading without your blinders on next time.
I said Apple chose AT&T, because they use GSM, a world wide standard. So they could make one phone to sell to most of the markets around the world.
You don't get it. Netflix will be available on any Apple TV. Verizon's V-Cast would only be on certain iPhones tied to that network.
Apple doesn't want to fall into the balkanized BS of every other phone maker with their iPhone: they want one experience that they, not the carrier, define.
Apple should not cave. iPhone on Verizon is just a mythical unicorn thing that will never be as "perfect" vs. AT&T as people try to claim.
It's not about being perfect. It's about the fact that no carrier is everywhere. If you don't have coverage you can't buy the product and that results in lost revenue and that is bad business.
You know, most people go to college for years to learn the secret of good business and you people get it from me for free. What a deal.
I could go play elsewhere. OR!!! Apple could change to suit ME!
Yeah, Apple is going to change to suit you. That's not how it works. As consumers we choose and use the products that work for us, not the other way around. It's called a free market. A company is free to provide a product that they believe works. If you don't like a product for lack of features you're free to make your own or find one that does.
Really? I remember watching the Keynote and being blown away. I immediately realized how useful this thing could be. It was very cool.
I am not saying people weren't blown away.
I am saying that before the iPhone, an all touchscreen device like the iPhone was still pretty much part of science fantasy.
However, what was most shocking was Apple went to Cingular, and essentially told them they were going to create the iPhone, but Cingular would not be updated with what it was, how it looked, etc. As admitted by the Cingular CEO, they found out about the iPhone only a few weeks before the Keynote.
I bet if we did a study we?d find that people most offended by walled gardens when it coms to software are more likely to spend most of their time in a wall basement avoiding the world at large.
Maybe it?s gardens he dislikes. If we call it a "walled parent?s basement? perhaps he?ll be more inclined to open his mind.
I do not live with my parents. I'm a grownup!
My parents passed away long ago without ever knowing the internet or the Mac experience. I think they would have liked it.
And my mind is open. Just like my yap!
Hey, no blasphemy!
I LOVE your argument, that because Apple is a large company they must be right. It takes me back to the old PC vs Mac discussions we used to have here. Every time some fanboy puffed out his chest and sang the praises of Apple, some PC fan would chime in with the old market share argument. If Microsoft was a bigger company then anything they did must be right.
So, Apple is big enough that we can use that argument here in the Verizon vs ATT debate? My, how times have changed.
As far as being delusional, you might be right. I have spent the last several hours arguing with you fine people here when I could be doing something meaningful. Perhaps I do need medical attention. Yes, very possible.
Hey, nice strawman there....Where did I say that Apple (or Steve Jobs) is always right because they are large or successful?
I said that your statement of them having "Delusions of Godhood" which you changed to "Delusions of Grandeur" were simply delusions, because:
a) They obviously DONT have problems partnering with people, unless you think its possible to build a $50Bn company without having good partnerships.
b You provide no evidence whatsoever for your claim